Slashdot Mirror
MacBook Pro Batteries Swelling and Failing
JohnnyCakes writes "MacBook Pro batteries are apparently swelling, then failing. MacFixIt has some grotesque pictures of their own swollen MBP battery, which looks like it has suffered an internal explosion. Apple is replacing batteries on a case-by-case basis, but hasn't yet admitted any wide-scale issues."
We here a lot of this kind of thing - faulty Mac products. But they don't usually pan out, so why give it much thought ?
How many times do we have to tell you? Don't buy first-gen Apple hardware!
/dotted.
Apple's next OS X update will ensure that random MacBooks will explode in a ball of flames. Apple, after all, wants to do everything a PC can do, but better, right?!
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
... at zero comments!
:-)
Looks like MacFixit's server uses one of those batteries
I currently have the issue where the machine simply turns off when the battery has reached around 30-40%, according to the operating system's battery meter.
Then, there is the issue of some batteries swelling, slightly to severely. If this is shown to be heat related, it may be also related to the issue of too much thermal paste being applied during manufacturing, thereby not allowing heat to be dissipated properly via the heatpipe and associated fans in a controlled fashion, but rather causing it to be dissipated in an uncontrolled way. Like, discharged into the interior of the case, affecting things like the battery.
The battery has definitely not suffered an "internal explosion", as the submitter speculates. This appears to occur over time to the batteries that do exhibit this issue, and it is by no means representative of the majority of MacBook Pro batteries. We've got plenty of MacBook Pros here, and we have yet to see one that exhibits this issue in a noticeable way.
These issues have not yet been acknowledged by Apple. While Apple is actually, from a statistical and reporting standpoint according to consumer organizations like Consumer Reports, the best at responding to these types of problems, it generally does not respond to or acknowledge any problems unless it already has a solution (or there is a defined safety risk that meets the muster of an immediate recall (which this is not (no, really, it's not))).
When Apple does acknowledge and address the issue, if it is indeed determined to be widespread (and anecdotal blog evidence aside, there is no reason to believe it is), Apple does make it very easy to get a replacement. See the examples for the previous PowerBook and iBook battery exchanges here. Just type in the serial number, Apple sends you a new battery. In this instance, Apple is most definitely replacing batteries that have failed or swollen; so, the end result is that affected customers still get a new battery. And, in the event that there is any larger problem that hasn't been addressed by the battery OEM, if that battery were to fail, it has its own warranty under which it will be replaced as well.
In any event, further awareness of the problem may adjust Apple's priorities in addressing the heat and battery issues on the MacBook Pro. For the record, with regard to thermal paste, Apple applies this much thermal paste on the new MacBook as well, and in the service manual, they specifically state that it is the correct, intended, and verified amount of thermal paste to be applying (even though that's a ridiculous assertion). So there's obviously more going on there, and anyone who has ever worked in a massive manufacturing operation knows how long a simple procedural change like this can take, and everything else that's involved.
As an aside, from the level of coverage all of these "issues" receive with Apple products, I can't help but wonder if some people get the impression that Apple just turns out one shoddy product after another, when the reality is that Apple is generally and consistently considered to be the best in the entire industry for quality, need for repairs, technical support, and so on, above all other manufacturers.
In the UK Apple have as good as told people not to buy iPods because they only last one year (despite UK consumer legislation protecting purchases for up to 6 years).
, 1783814,00.html, ,1738830,00.html
http://money.guardian.co.uk/consumernews/story/0,
http://money.guardian.co.uk/howtocomplain/story/0
Now it's apparantly not just iPod batteries causing problems! Very amusing.
The article won't load already.
This can't have happened to that many people though. Faults do happen. Sure, the fault is annoying and probably dangerous. There are more dangerous faults out there though.
Damn Viagara!!!!!!!
Apple is replacing batteries on a case-by-case basis, but hasn't yet admitted any wide-scale issues.
When has Apple EVER admitted to any wide-scale issues? They're notorious for sweeping problems under the rug and downplaying them. Only after people kick and scream with pitchforks do they grudingly admit to a "limited" problem, and sometimes they don't admit to it all but just quietly do away with the product (e.g., the cube Mac with the cracking case).
Just a link to some of the drama, in case a Google search be beyond ye... I would consider this a problem, judging by the amount of posts there. For once, I'm glad I own neither a Dell or an Apple laptop. Oh wait. I'm always glad I don't own one of those :)
There's a 68.71% chance you're right.
For more info, visit the battery manufacturer's website.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
I've read /., on and off for years. Never have I seen so many articles about the (alleged) shortcomings of a single product (aside from Windows, but that's a given.)
It seems like every other day an article gets posted about a Mac product failing. Whether it's overheating, poor battery life, dirty cases, and now swelling batteries.
Seriously, what percentage of *any* product fails? Yet it's blown all out of shape here.
I'm not a Mac owner, nor do I even like their OS, but hell guys, lighten up huh?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
You put the words "grotesque" and "pictures" right next to each other and made them a link... which had predictable results on the responsiveness of the MacFixIt server. That might be some kind of record.
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
Just one more thing PC Fanboys have to criticize Apple about. Then too, Mac Zealots do have the exploding Dell laptop thingy...
Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
The best course of action is if you see your not getting the maximum power out of the battery (it cuts out) take it out and take it back ASAP. Its likely in 1-2 weeks going to fail.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Sudden shutdowns can be precursory to severe battery failure We continue to report on severe battery failure -- apparently due to overheating -- from some MacBook Pros.
As we noted last week, our an in-house MacBook Pro (1.83 GHz) has a battery that has begun to swell noticeably. The system has always had some quirks with battery operation, but recently has begun to randomly shut down, or refuse to operate from the battery alone -- requiring connection to AC power.
In mild cases, batteries swell but remain functional. In these cases, keyboard and/or trackpad functionality is sometimes affected by the rising of internal components.
In severe cases, the swelling is visually striking, and users are eventually left with non-functioning batteries.
In most cases, Apple is replacing these defective batteries on an individual basis. The company has yet to disclose a manufacturing defect affecting any range of serial numbers or date-based production runs.
Anecdotal evidence (including our own in-house experience) suggests that the problem primarily affects MacBook Pros that were shipped early on in the production cycle -- our MacBook Pro was shipped in February.
A MacFixIt reader corroborates:
"Talking to a friend at a Apple Store in NJ, he has had a few people return with battery issues and from the dates strongly suggests its a error that started late Feb to late March, since all the computers coming back fall into that timeframe."
If your MacBook Pro's battery is swelling, please let us know.
Running Rosetta applications causes heat spikes Any processor/hard drive intensive operation -- including running applications in Rosetta -- can result in tactile heat spikes from the MacBook Pro.
As described by MacFixit reader Mark:
"I've been a happy owner of a MacBook Pro for about 3 months now. In my opinion, it is a laptop in all senses of the word. However, I have noticed a very high sensitivity to the type and intensity of workloads the processors are running in regards to heat. If you are on battery power, the time remaining indicator is an excellent predictor of how hot the 'Book is going to get. If you are running Microsoft Word, your 'Book is going to get very hot. If OpenBase (used with Chronos products) is re-indexing, or Adobe software is running, the 'Book gets hot. Most Rosetta-dependent apps knock 30 min to an hour off of the battery time, even if they are not in the foreground. If you want a cool 'Book, kill all Rosetta-dependent apps unless you need them. The heat drops, the battery lasts 3+ hours, and you have a laptop again."
Meanwhile, some users report receiving replacements for abnormally hot units.
MacFixIt reader Del writes:
"I have a 2.16 GHz MacBook Pro with the 7200 rpm hard drive and 1.5 GB ram. It has been running hot ever since it arrived in April. After downloading from VersionTracker and installing the 'CoreDuoTemp' application version 0.9 which monitors an Intel Mac's internal temperature, I was getting temperature readings as high as 162 degrees Fahrenheit.
"After speaking with tech support, on May 31, I took the unit to the Apple store for repairs. I have been notified that they are replacing the mother board and the temperature sensors. The repairs are supposed to be complete by June 23, 2006. Apparently the parts were backordered and should arrive by June 16, 2006. I will let you know if this repair fixes the problem with over heating."
More projector problems Users continue to note issues with output to digital projectors from the MacBook Pro.
MacFixIt reader Todd Birdsong writes:
"When I connect the MacBook Pro to a projector, both the audio and video work great when they are independent from each other. It is when you combine the two (which is 99% of the time) that the audio becomes irritatingly noisy. It is a steady 'buzz' which is completely distracting. After checking out all of my gear, I discovered that when you disconnected the DVI/VGA adaptor that the audio returned to normal."
If you are experiencing a similar issue, please let us know.
For further coverage, see our MacBook Pro special report
There's no problem. You people are a bunch of whiners. Batteries are supposed to explode, computers are supposed to moo, laptops are typically too hot to rest on your lap and plastic naturally turns pink. Perfectly acceptable. Apple hardware is the best in the world, period.
When Viagra goes bad...
...want to imitate Dell?
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
If they keep swelling and failing, then perhaps they need some supplements. More information readily available in your mail account. But act fast, this offer ends soon!
Now every laptop from every manufacturer has battery problems.
The MacBook didn't have them for a month because it was new. That's all.
Who makes these crappy batteries (China obviously) any why do companies keep buying them? And is it the slave labor, or the childrens small hands that makes the quality so low?
- Adam L. Beberg - The Cosm Project - http://www.mithral.com/
Trying to mirror the site stand by...
Does it annoy anyone else that the damn page won't load but their banners certainly do? I don't mind advertising but I hate generating revenue for somebody when I'm getting nothing out of it.
BTW, these captchas really stink too. I don't have a clue what the last one was.
I'd think if this is somewhat common that it is more likely to be an issue with the battery charging circuitry. Lithium batteries in general are pretty reliable, as long as they are properly charged. Overcharging them can cause all kinds of problems, including explosions.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Before this year, I hadn't used an Apple since a IIe back in grade school. Why? Because most of my clients are office junkees, and it was just a heck of a lot easier to use windows in the interest of "compatibility". Then came news of the Wintel: a Mac that could do BOTH! I ran out and bought a MacBook Pro the week after they came out. Then my problems began...
I will skip the horror stories we have all read about, but needless to say the thing is hot, loud and the tech support people are still in denial about everything. I gave up, and down-graded to a MacBook instead. All in all, the MacBook is a solid machine and a quality value- but it still has MANY of the same problems (and a few all its own). In other words, things I consider unacceptable at $2,500 I view as "good enough" at $1,000. Then again, I've been using Dells for the last decade...silly me for thinking quality was a function of cost, eh?
I simply cannot understand why Apple would do this to itself. The iPod was a grand slam, and I was expecting these Mactels to DOUBLE Apple's market share in time for Vista. I had nothing but high hopes, which is probably why I am so disappointed now.
Bad metaphor time: I come visit you the day a family member dies. Mom is crying. Dad is drunk. Sis is sneaking a cig. Unbenknownst to me, for 20 years your family has been normal and wonderful, but this is one hell of a shitty first impression. I tell myself "never again", and don't bother to return your phone calls next week.
In the end, Apple nets even because I bought a second MacBook for the fiance. However, the way I see it, they still LOST a potential $1,500- and probably one heck of a lot of Windows users who are less patient that I am.
barack to the future?
...and what happens if you say *Macbook* while waiting in line at the airport?
Always be polite.
Maybe your MBP is just excited to see you?
If you want detailes see this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32550
Kyocera smart phones (the 7135 variety) had a problem like this a while back; the contents of the battery pack would leak and become super-heated. The resulting condition would cause pressure to build up within the skin of the battery cell and the cell would eventually fail, releasing some very angry super-charged gas. This burned a few people, IIRC, and Kyocera recalled the batteries.
I wonder if these fail in nay similar way, 'with force' as the Kyocera batteries did. It's one thing to stop working and gently split open. It's entirely another to stop working and blow apart.
Informatus Technologicus
Saying that iPod batteries (or anything else about the iPod) last "one year" is complete and total bullshit. Hell, the warranty is one year. And you can extend it to two years for $59 (or get a third party service plan), and yes, all of those cover the battery.
They're lithium ion batteries just like any other lithium ion battery, so why not recommend people not buy anything else with lithium ion batteries in it in the UK? There's nothing worse about, or wrong with, the lithium ion batteries Apple uses in the iPod. They come from the likes of Sony, Sanyo, and other leading lithium ion battery manufacturers. The original iPod batteries were stock, pre-existing Sony batteries and weren't even built to Apple specifications
And before anyone says the battery is "sealed inside", so what? Let's say you buy a Nokia phone, and the Nokia-branded battery replacement is $60. Well, Apple will replace your iPod battery with the Apple-branded battery replacement (actually, by giving you a new or factory-refurbished-in-a-brand-new-enclosure iPod with its own warranty) for $60. Or, you can get a replacement battery that's even higher capacity than Apple's for $25 from any of dozens of outfits selling iPod batteries and replace it yourself in about 5-10 minutes.
For the truth, see iPod Battery FAQ. Disclaimer: iPod Battery FAQ is my site. It does have Google Adsense on it, but I don't sell anything. So if you think this is some "trick" to get people to visit it, by all means, don't click an ad. I believe I have covered the iPod battery issue extensively, and extensively disproven the crap. I challenge anyone to find anything incorrect on the site.
If this happened to Dell, or Compaq, or random-nonname-clone, this wouldn't be news. Because its Apple, there's shock and dismay. Perhaps because people have a higher expectation of Apple, or a lower expectation of PC hardware?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
One of the few issues of this type that Apple did (sort of) 'fess up to was the 5300 powerbooks that had the first generation LiOn batteries which would heat up and literally fry the powerbook when recharging.
I was the beneficiary of Apple's belated recall/tradein ~2001 and was able to get ~$700 off on the G3 Pismo powerbook that I still use as a portable music workstation. there must be a landfill somewhere full of these things as a result of the tradein. I think they saw this as the only way to get out of supporting this bad product.
The funny thing was that I got the 5300ce for about $100 from a friend who 'liberated' it from Nokia's San Francisco offices when they shut down there in the mid '90s -the executives had taken all of the other, better, newer laptops, but these were considered dogs almost upon release:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300
I was amazed/appalled to see that my 5300ce once cost over $6,000
I actually never had any problems with mine -I just never liked OS 8 on it -and as soon as OS X came out I updated my replacement G3 and have never looked back (except when accidentally launching Word and going into 'classic' mode.
-What's the speed of dark?
Here's a mirror:
? story=20060622103345459
http://www.macfixit.com.nyud.net:8080/article.php
Coral cache of the page..
Scully: Should we arrest David Copperfield?
Mulder: Yes we should, but not for this.
...they're just big boned.
Takes a long time to load. My mirror is better: http://195.62.29.95/www.macfixit.com/index.html sponsored by: www.photojerk.com - Server is downloading the images so I will replace the non imaged version here with a version that has images when its done.
I clicked once on a slashdot link that led to grotesque pictures of swollen parts. That was also quite a wide-scale issue, very wide in fact. I'm not falling for that one again.
For the last 10 years, I help my neighbor out with his mac. In this case, he has an e-mac that had a filesystem failing. I thought it was the OS so forced him to upgrade to tiger. When the problem continued, I checked up on other issues. What I found is that the emac has an issue with mb capacitors. So I popped it open to take a peak. Sure enough, they have started leaking. Yet, apple does not want to do a recall on this. Sadly, I fear that Apple is becoming no different than others. As it is, I will recommend that his next system have a seperate monitor/system so that if he lose his hardware again, then he can switch to a linux box.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
For Lithium Ion Polymer (or LiPo for short) batteries to swell like this one or more of the following has to have happened:
1. The battery was discharged below its safe discharge voltage threshold.
2. The battery was discharged at a current higher than the rated sustained discharge current rating.
3. It was a boy computer placed too close to a girl computer.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
What more could one expect? That's what happens when one computer share's it peripherals with too many other computers.
ThinkGeek already has a shirt promoting safe practices:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/coder/61be/
Gee. I can either have my MacBook Pro burn my legs off (a friend told me about how he put it on his bed and it melted through the blanket!) or have the battery swell and fail. I guess the Mac really does do everything... Anyone need something ironed?
There are no uninteresting things. There are only uninterested people.
I've learned not to trust anything that's white, & takes the country by storm, like Pilgrims or Cocaine, or Apple Products.
Being white, I don't even trust myself !
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Is that your battery, or are you happy to see me?
-- Terry
three MBP's, three batteries, all three fine.
Now, one of the laptops lost two fans within three weeks of ownership...but that's offtopic.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Whatever will they think of next?
Extended warranties?
The heavens do not fall for such a trifle.
I think part of the problem here is, for many years, most people have regarded apple hardware as being superior to most of what was available for PC manufacturers to use. The reason, IMHO, that we seem to have a sudden rash of stories about apple hardware problems, be it iPod or macbook pro, is that the company is finally starting to succomb to the same thing most huge businesses do, which is "get it for less.". Once opon a time they had fantastic hardware that most PC geeks would have loved to snag and put Windows on, but they couldn't. Now, it's just a shame that the product quality is slipping at the same time that the machines become compatible with windows. Now, nobody gives a shit. 5-10 years ago I would have fallen over myself to get a Mac that ran Windows.
Windows has more viruses because linux has more virus coders.
Probably a good idea to avoid them...
Sad thing is that Apple gets the bad press over it.
Here's a much more disturbing photo of one of those batteries. It was posted on Accelerate Your Mac on June 15.
...until some Apple zealot finds a way to blame this on Microsoft?
Slashdot - Where the slash is most definitely to the left.
"MacFixIt has some grotesque pictures of their own swollen MBP battery"
Thats not grotesque you want to see grotesque, let me find that tub girl link...
I don't know if this speaks highly or lowly of Apple. Everytime I read a story about an Apple defect, it is something new and unique. Whether it is a faulty logic board, bad battery, white spots, or yellow palm rests, it is always something new. My particular notebook had a recall on it due to a faulty memory slot. At the least, it illustrates that Apple is pretty decent at troubleshooting the design to resolve errors from future generations. Also, it shows that Apple like any other PC manufacturer is only going to produce systems that are good as their individual parts.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Maybe Apple will put it in their new mac commercials, but state that it's windows that has the problem and not mac. The battery burst could be represented by the fat man's fly bursting open and stuff oozing out.
Can I bum a sig?
...then I don't know what is. Congratutions, you've just turned:
1. Apple produced failing hardware
into
1. there is an elite Mac culture
2. Apple has above average hardware and support
The first I would agree with, to an extent. They do think they're elite, whether they are or not.
The second has no credibility without any sources.
Thanks, but I think I'll stick with the actual story, that Apple produced faulty hardware.
Every Apple hardware issue can be enumerated on Slashdot, and they can keep up with a pace of one article every few months on average. Compared to experiences I've had with... well, let's say 'other vendors' to keep the fanboys at bay, Slashdot paints a pretty rosy picture of Apple.
I haven't heard anything about them suing MacFixIt yet.
When you hold yourself to higher quality standards and something goes wrong, it is a big deal.
Apple swells you!
The APC SmartUPS units I've used over the years failed this way a few times. The
replaceable battery would swell (sometimes enough to make it impossible to remove
from the UPS) as it failed. I understand it's the result of gas created by a
run-down battery building pressure to the point where the case has to balloon
to contain it. It was always surprising to me when it happened -- it seemed
dangerous. -Gary
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
Is this the 'New Mac Porn' version of Goatse?
"grotesque pictures"!? Where's the alien goo? What a wimp! I bet he would vomit at the sight of an open can of refried beans.
What?
What? Problems with a first generation laptop? No ..... This is exactly why the same rules apply to hardware as apply to software, sit the first generation out and let other people deal with the inevitable problems that will occur.
No wonder nobody says that these days.
*ducks*
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Name one problem with Linux that isn't solved by having someone else decide what you will and will not use? Coming from OSX, the "insert favorite app here is not on Linux" is not a showstopper.
... and so on.
"The user interface is inconsistent": KDE or Gnome not both, problem solved.
"It is ever so hard to install": Knoppix, problem solved. If not, the poster will probably be installing it anyway, problem solved.
"There are 5000 different text editors": solved by the poster picking one and installing it.
*ducking*
Previously if ever the price of a Mac was mentioned, you can bet someone would explain how the premium ensured build quality. Recently (the last 2-3 years), the build quality of certain Macs and certain iPods has been pretty superficial. You get a snazzy looking laptop that is too hot to put on your lap (it's not a laptop, it's a notebook!), where the battery pops (from the heat), and if you go for the cheaper model it turns yellow after a few weeks. So what was the high price for again? Certainly not for the quality it seems.
could it be that Apple users are more apt to go into forums or make a blog about bad hardware than a Dell or HP user?
Every time a single user finds an isolated manufacturing defect in a product from Apple, a hellstorm is raised. Often, these problems are not widespread or are only borne out of unrealistic expectations (the latter is partly Apple's fault through their marketing.) For example, this battery issue is probably a previously unknown quality control issue at the battery manufacturer Apple uses. No doubt other computer makers use the same batteries in their laptops.
When you make 200,000+ of something, yeah, some of them are going to have parts that may take some time to fail and thus are not caught by quality control. You don't see people doing this to Dell or IBM, they just RMA the damn thing and get another.
The kind of people who buy these things are willing to let battery acid burn their penis away if it means keeping their uber-cool notebook on their lap.
blog & fiction: jd87
How about:
"Shoddy drivers make using various hardware painful to use. Wifi for example has only just recently seen improvement"
"The shell is not user friendly unless you know what you're doing, and chances are you'll be using the shell quite a bit"
"If a problem arises, chances are slim to nil they're going to know how to fix it, and while this can happen in any OS, Linux is one of the worst to fix if you don't know what you're doing, otherwise you'll wind up checking through forums desperately trying to find an answer"
There's a difference between liking Linux and knowing linux, and I wager a guess if he had it installed, he wouldn't know where to begin. So him going Mac > Linux seems like doomsday.
Why do you think that? Some things that are easy in Linux are even easier in a Mac, I'll grant you that, but if you had tried using any modern Linux you'd know that Linux is better for anyone who is a moderate to heavy computer user. If you do anything more than sending pictures of your cat to your mom or if you use applications other than Photoshop, Linux is more powerful than a Mac.
Oh, c'mon! He didn't say it was a game machine, did he?
My hardware:
First gen MacBook Pro 2.0 GHz (shipped the first week,) with 2 GB of RAM and the 7200 RPM hard drive. All firmware updates applied, running Boot Camp. (95% of the time in OS X, 5% in XP.)
My symptoms:
This whole process occurred over about two weeks.
So I took it to an Apple Store's Genius Bar, and they did some diagnostics, then finally declared it a bad battery. (The Genius hadn't heard of any company-acknowledged failures that covered this.) Swapped my battery for a brand new one (straight off the sales shelf,) and went on my way. (I bought a second at the same time, simply because I had been wanting a second battery anyway.)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Regarding the glossy screen, I thought this was primarily to compare to Apple's competitors. Ie, I was under the impression that most other laptops are glossy screened, and that many Apple customers were annoyed that Apple only had the matte screen. Are the other laptops you prefer over the macbook also glossy screened?
Secondly, I read somewhere that glossy screens can actually be BETTER than matte screens for use in bright sunlight. Since the screen is flat, you can adjust the screen to not get the sunlight glare in your face. But the matte screen will scatter sunlight no matter which general angle you're at. Additionally, my glass-faced CRT right now is convex-curved, so that means any light behind me will put a glare on the screen, and angling the screen won't fix it since it's convex.
Anyway, I am similar to you in that I didn't like using macs at all until OS X came out, which I now love (I was a linux fan before this). But my GF has a mac mini which I use, and has no hardware problems, so I'm blissfully unaware of laptop hardware issues, and just get to enjoy the OS X goodness. :-)
We use LiPo batteries for radio control planes, and many of us have experienced swelling, and eventually combustion, because of the abuse that we put the batteries through. We demand massive current output to drive high-wattage brushless motors, and then get frustrated and charge the batteries at higher-than recommended currents so we can get out flying again.
Then there's the whole cottage industry of R/C flyers buying 'bare cells' and soldering together frankenstein combinations of cells in series and parallel to get the perfect size/voltage/weight battery for the plane we are building.
So in other words it comes as no surprise to me that LiPos in consumer products are swelling (and exploding) as the capacities and loads are increased, and as manufacturing perhaps gets shoddier as supply demand increases.
As I mention here, the more power you need, the more energy you need to store in a battery, and the higher the likelihood of some sort of catastrophic failure.
gadgetophile.com
Combine this with that program that makes lightsaber noises based upon the motion sensor, and I'd call it a feature! 1500 dollars for an exploding lightsaber seems kind of cheap!
Also, on another note - Apple HAS recalled batteries in the past for G4 laptops. It makes me wonder what it eventually will take for there to be a full scale recall of the Macbook batteries.
We had people go ape about how terrible Dell is over those two photos of ONE incident with NO futher information as to how it occured, NO information as to whether the user had done anything stupid to their machine.
And yet here we have Apple having yet more issues with their machines, on a wide scale, and doing nothing about it, and people say... "yeah... well... others have problems too".
Face it, Apples are nice machines, but they are in NO WAY perfect or the holy grail of computing that so many of you seem to think they are.
I still want one :(
Maybe Apple products should not get so much attention outside of the apple.slashdot.org section. Since these stories get so many comments, maybe they should.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Based on the fact that you use Photoshop (memory hog + Rosetta = double plus good memory hog), 1 GB is minimum. 2 GB isn't much more expensive and it's waaaaaay better.
On the glossy screen, I thought I would hate it. But I find it's actually better than a matte screen outdoors in the sun. Just don't sit so that the sun is behind you and reflecting on the screen, and the image will be more crisp. Meanwhile, the matte washes out easily in that light.
YMMV.
Apple attaches a price to all of its repairs. If a genius tech tells you the superdrive needs to be replaced and its 400.00 for example, if the machine is covered under applecare, applecare is charged 400 bucks, not you. Some people misunderstand apples repair process, but they have to keep track of how much repairs cost them.They just charge them to the users specific applecare account... which doesnt cost the user anything - other than buying applecare.
I'll start with some disclaimers: I don't own a Macbook Pro, I don't engineer portable computers, and I have only ever owned one portable computer in my life, a 12" Powerbook 867.
A previous Macfixit article, "MacBook Special Report: Excessive heat: Usage notes, cooling pads and more" (which is now in the subscription-only archives) mentioned MacBook temps getting to and over 67C
I own a first generation 12" Powerbook, the machine which was the previous Apple whipping-boy for overheating issues. I never experienced the warping/twisting frame problem 12" Powerbooks suffered, which was blamed on heat. My personal experience has been that use of the machine at a temperature over 59C at the CPU can cause the Combo drive to cease functioning and kernal panics related to the internal modem. The hottest I ever saw my 12" Powerbook get was 63C, when burning a series of CDs with the computer placed on a bed. I used the app Temperature Monitor to identify these problems and prevent recurrances.
If it's now considered normal for MacBooks to reach 67C and higher at the CPU, then quite frankly I'm not surprised that there are hardware issues, and I wonder how surprised the engineers at Apple are.
RTFM; please, I beg you.
My experience in PC laptops has been very broad; my last 5 where all Compaqs and the last 2 sucked even more than a webPC would do on a programmers desk regarding heating issues, screen and mobo issues, etc..
I've bought myself a Powerbook in December; asked for a QWERTY keyboard and went to the shop (FNAC) once they told it was in. It seemed the keyboard was an AZERTY keyboard + the right enter sometimes didn't take its hit; so I asked them to order another model with the right keyboard. In January I get a call to get the new Powerbook; went immediately to the store; switched it on, restored my backup; everything looked "ok" to me...
1 day later I get a sudden lockup; like one of the many I get; it just locks up; no cursor movements; the only key that responds is the power key. Not only I've been haunted with this problem for the last 3 months; the machine also spews errors like kernel panics, gray screen-mentioning-a-crash-in-all-languages and the spinning ball of death.
This is my first Apple; have been a PC user for 15 years; I got to say my first Powerbook was a relieve compared to this "new switched" one; although I first have to use it to finish my projects before I can go return it to the shop and loose it for 2 to 4 weeks. I already went to the Apple store with it and they seem not to know about any related problems; a cooling stand does not work (but does cool this powerbook down remarkably; without fans...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
If Apple fanboys get screwed, to me its just a good laugh. I never have bought Apple and never will, so why should I care?
CNET.com.au also has an article on this issue (with photos): http://cnet.com.au/laptops/laptops/0,39035649,4006 3900,00.htm
The damn computer runs too damn hot. Excessive heat in the environment makes the battery swell, leading to structural failure in the case. Apple lemmings should stop making excuses for Apple (which is a fucking for-profit company, for fuck's sake). I almost bought one of these things but held off a few days to read the forums and, sure enough...
Problems with batteries, specific to the MBP iirc... damn I wish I had the link
For the last time, PIN Number and ATM Machine are redundancies!
Ubuntu can keep him away from the command line, and x86 hardware is cheaper and easier to maintain than Mac hardware. If you didn't follow the thread, he's on his third Mac because the previous two failed.
I support Mac OS X, various forms of Linux, and Windows systems where I work. The Mac hardware and Mac OS X systems are definately the most annoying to deal with, and cost a great deal more (and do a great deal less) than the Linux and Windows workstations.
I don't think it's much of a stretch for someone who's used either a Windows PC or a Mac to switch to Linux, IF they can be happy using the applications available under Linux. Sometimes you gotta run one or the other based on the job (which is the only reason we have the Macs).
That's horribly unintuitive. A customer has no reason to care about the cost of a repair that's covered under warranty. If they want to know, go ahead and tell them, but if you're saying Apple automatically vomits this information at customers coming in for repairs, that's a recipe for confusion.
And now, a PSA from David Lynch.
Well, some people are very unlucky, I haven't had a Mac fail beyond a point where you can't swap out the HD, except once where it was sent in within warrenty and came back and is working strongly, that was 4 years ago with an iBook. Besides that, it is x86 hardware now, and lots of sites are saying the MacBook is giving others a run for their money.
The thing I don't get is why everyone is pointing directly at Apple/Dell/HP/etc. Lately, it seems like a month can't go by without a news story about some manufacturer having trouble with either their laptop power adapters or their laptop batteries overheating. I'm thinking the problem isn't Dell/Apple/HP/etc per se, but the el cheapo batteries and power electronics they all must be buying. It's not like the big OEMs actually make this stuff themselves these days. So it's just like the capacitor plague of a few years ago -- cheap but faulty parts flood the market, all the OEMs buy them up, excrement his the air circulator.
Of course, the manufacturers do bear some responsibility for this, since it's ultimately their product. Yet this appears to be an industry-wide problem. Why no flames against the battery suppliers? Why no flames against *consumers*, for favoring lower prices instead of better quality control?
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Mac- Hello I'm a Mac
PC- And I'm a PC
Mac- Y'Know I can do a lot of fun stuff like arrange pictures and--
PC- Err what's that huge lump growing out of your side? And why are your clothes covered with yellow stains?
// MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
For what it's worth, I found that my Mac Book Pro was running hot, and was consistently idling at 40% cpu activity, when there didn't seem to be anything consuming that much cpu as far as top was telling me.
It appears to have been caused by having Windows Sharing turned on. It was using that many cycles even when I was at home with no Windows machines on the network.
When I turned off Windows Sharing, the cpu usage dropped to single digits, and the laptop has been running much cooler.
Your mileage may vary, of course, but it might be something worth looking at if your laptop runs hot.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
http://cnet.com.au/laptops/laptops/0,39035649,4006 3900,00.htm
No report on whether the bulge makes things snappier. ;-)
Swelling and failing! This is an area where slashbots have tons of experience! Girls on the other hand... not so much so... unless of course you count *the other hand* as a girl.
Both MacBook Pros are 2Ghz, purchased on the date of the announcement (January 10th).
Two days ago, both computers shut down suddenly (at different moments, obviously) while still showing about 10-20% juice left. In one of the cases (my computer), it corrupted the hard drive so badly that I had to erase it completely (this is after trying DiskWarrior from a G4 with the MBP in FireWire target mode, trying TechTool, Disk Utility, and the help of a very kind, but nonetheless baffled Genius (at Apple's downtown SF retail store)).
Now, I took a look at the batteries, and both are swelled.
The computers are still great, Windows still runs fine... for the next few hours, we'll run it straight from AC power and see what the Apple Store has to say.
Good luck to everyone dealing with this issue.
Loopsh of fury.
Bottom line, you Windoze and *nix folks: don't think you can poke fun. We're strong, we're united, we love our meringue-tinged MacBooks and MacBulger Pros and we'll continue to love them even if they start to fill out in back like John Merrick, the Elephant Man. It could be worse; we could be stuck on Dell machines getting carpal tunnel from jamming our trackpad fingers on that impossible START button found in the left corner of XP--now, there's a basis for a recall if ever there was one. I weep for you poor, START-bound Windoze users. And Linux? Please, Spock. Understand: nobody licks a prompt. Nobody.
Swelling and Failing?
I think I have one of those blasted batteries in my underpant, it has an annoying tendency to leak glue just before failing.
I'm a PC user all right, and, yes, a noisy computer annoys me too. And there's a healthy market in soundproofing kits, 3rd party GPU coolers, silent fans, watercooling kits, or computers without fans like the Hush PC or Zalman's TNN (Totally No Noise) cases, saying that I'm not the only one. Noise levels have played an increasingly important part of the PC's evolution in the last years, and spawned stuff like:
- fluid bearings for HDD's, which now have become the norm
- temperature controlled fans everywhere (again, fluid or ceramics bearing are increasingly more used)
- higher efficiency PSUs that don't need as much airflow to stay cool (and also moved to slow 120mm fans)
- cases with _much_ better airflow at lower fan RPM
- desktop motherboards that take low-voltage notebook CPUs, e.g., Pentium M
- the new Samsung Flash "HDDs"
Etc.
So basically if your image of the average PC owner is someone who's sitting next to something that sounds like a leafblower and feeling proud of his l33t turbo-cooled overclocked rig... you may wish to re-evaluate it.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Where's Ralph Nader when you need him?!
...that I forgot to put the word "online" in there, as in, "prices on the online Apple store are also subsidizing the overhead on the Apple store." Now we both get to look like morons.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I owned a Powerbook G3 Bronze Keyboard, first gen 15-inch Powerbook G4 Titanium 500mgz, first gen 17-inch Powerbook G4 1ghz, and now a first gen 15-inch MacBook Pro 2 ghz.
I've had no problems with any of them, they were very reliable computers. Until the MacBook Pro. My battery has cut out three times in the 3 months I've owned the laptop, 2 being in the last week -- I will be seeking a replacement bettery. On the bright side it's not swollen (yet).
-Stu
I'd love to mod you up, but then Apple came along and provided a repair extension program for that eMac. In other words, yes, Apple is still the friendlier, better company to deal with. It'd be nice if they never had that capacitor problem, but there's only so much control of the supply chain that one can have, and they're honorable enough to fix their mistakes. They're even reimbursing people who already paid for the repair out-of-pocket. It's about all I can ask; I don't know about you.
What was the source of the bad service, or, perhaps, what sources failed to provide good service? Apple retail, AppleCare, or a CompUSA mini-store? What kind of service were you looking for?
I had this happen to me on my week 1 Macbook Pro. I got a replacement under warranty at the local Apple Store without much fuss.
Towards the end the machine wouldn't sit flat - like typing on a weeble.
I'm seeing more and more stories about the swelling/failing batteries, and guess what? My battery is swelling too now. I noticed it after taking it out to look at the battery after the laptop would randomly shut off for no reason whatsoever.
Sig: I stole this sig.