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There's also the c2it service, which is part of Citibank. They don't seem as free-wheeling as PayPal (They have limits on how much money you can transfer around), and they don't charge stupid percentage fees to accept money from credit cards! They will, of course, charge you for international transfers, but so does my bank if I deposit a check drawn on Canadian dollars.

On the other hand, when someone sends me money, it gets transferred to my real bank account. But the no-fees transactions of c2it are nice. That's how a real credit card works anyway, right? (Pay in full, no fees, pay partial and there's a finance charge.)

Don't pretend PayPal is a bank. It isn't. Get a real bank account, transfer it out of PayPal, and keep the money in there.

Why risk being shafted by PayPal? Use another service like c2it, and if someone wants to deal with you, then they have to get an account with them too.

since there have been enough paypal bashing for one day, how about folks kicking in a buck or two to raise some more funds for abiword

Ummm, because that would require me to setup a PayPal account?

I think I'll wait until they get a better donation service provider. What about c2it, which is run by CitiBANK (I stress the bank part).

To close your paypal account follow that link. I just closed mine.

Then send them an e-mail explaining why. I'm going to now.

P.S. It seems to me the seller of the camera/PDA must have mailed the thing somewhere. Get that address. Contact local police. Contact EBay's fraud division. ETC. I'd be surprised if this money cannot be recovered. In the meantime, I hope Abiword is busy setting up a C2it account.

Then, after one or two comments asking for help with the matter, they disabled my ability to use their 'so you have a problem' web form.

They don't have a phone number on their site either, so you can't call.

I advise you strongly, do not use paypal if you don't feel like having your money stolen. Use c2it instead. The most common transactions have no fees associated with them at all, and it's run by citibank, as a real bank.

The fact that you had one good experience doesn't mean that the countless people who've had their money stolen by paypal aren't worth consideration.

1. finance charges: paypal doesn't even offer lines of credit, so there's no comparison. Nobody forces you to take out a c2it credit line instead of linking to checking, savings, or your credit cards.
2. credit card fees: paypal doesn't shelter you from credit card cash advance fees either. If you put money into your paypal account from your credit card, and your credit card charges that, you'll also get hit
3. international fees: yep, $10 to transfer money internationally, while then paypal imposes a withdrawal fee on the international recipient, in addition to the percentage they get from the sender (and in the case of business accounts, the receiver).

Ok, so paypal sucks. Are there any good alternatives though?

Yes.

They are FDIC insured, so you have some recourse if they screw you.

"PalPal democratizes taking credit cards"

First off, I just have to say how I laughed at that title. That's like saying Lenin democratized Russia. Replacing one oppressive regime with another doesn't change anything. PayPal just makes sure everybody is oppressed evenly.

"Best of all, the fees were only $0.30 plus 2.9% per transaction, with no monthly minimum, terminal fees, etc. like with a standard credit card processor. This page [paypal.com] at PalPal shows the comparison."

That's all well and good, but my problem (well, one of them at least) is that they charge per-dollar to begin with. For most normal bank transactions, you are charged per-transaction, not per-dollar, and it's only with credit cards do we see this baseless pricing racket put in place. I mean, it't not like transferring $100.00 requires ten times the amount of bits to move through the wire than $10.00.

On top of that, it takes them several days to transfer money to my checking account, but they can take it from my account "instantly?" Why does it work that way? Maybe so PayPal can skim a little interest off the transaction on top of the transaction fees? Charging me twice, are they?

I live in Louisiana. My bank is in Texas. When I sell things on eBay, often times when a person mails me their check and I mail the check to my bank, it takes less time to get my money than it would have taken through PayPal.

"To me, this means that accepting credit card payments is not just a privilege of those who can "qualify" at a bank, but available to anyone with just a painless web signup. And the fees are less too."

The problem aren't the middle-men who set up the transaction services, the problem goes much higher than that, rooted in the oligopoly that the credit card industry has become. Look at the recent legal troubles Visa and MastarCard are finding themselves in.

"If PayPal can ever get its customer service act together, it will really give banks a challenge."

It will be a cold day in hell before most banks can challenge my bank as far as I'm concerned. And PayPal has a long way to catch up with normal banks.

Just as an example, most banks don't make you sit through click-through ads before you can access your account. If that's not outright contempt for their customers, I don't know what is.

I have so much more respect for Citibank and c2it at this point that it's not even funny. Seriously. Large uber-corp offering a better service at a better price than some dot-bomb start up. Go figure.

Let's say a company does something that screws you out of $20. Are you going to do anything? No, it doesn't make sense. Now let's say a lawyer finds a million people who got screwed, now the company is facing a real lawsuit, and has incentive not to pull those kind of shenanigans again, even though you might only get $5 back after all is said and done.

I'm all for class action lawsuits against paypal. A company who locked down a tad over $100 of my money, and won't even allow me to refund it to the sender. They're an illegal bank, and I'm happy to see that a money-hungry lawyer is busy fucking them hard, even if I never see a dime because of it.

btw, if you're looking for a paypal alternative that's run by a real bank, is FDIC insured, and doesn't charge you to send or receive money, check out c2it by citibank.

Too bad I am not in the UK where the service is supported ... it looks to be worthwhile. (Yes, I have also checked C2IT but I am not in the USA either.

Sure, c2it.

Personally, I feel that the fears of out-of-control rates are not legitimate. It's not hard for a seller to advertise another payment service and have it catch on like wildfire. And don't think that the banks are just sitting on their feet. I'm sure that there are other banks with big money in addition to Citibank are looking to enter this profitable area.

They don't have a customer service phone number.

They don't have a customer service email address.

They don't have any customer service at all, except a web form which gets answered in about 3 days, with an unhelpful answer.

Use c2it or some other service where your money is FDIC insured, treated according to standard federal banking regulations, you can talk to people if you have a problem, and they don't randomly freeze accounts. Additionally, c2it doesn't seem to have any fees for most transactions, so you don't even have to pay the 1% paypal tax.

Citibank does offer some of the services that PayPal does. Particularly, sending money via email. Check out:

https://www.c2it.com/C2IT/Login

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), it is not nearly as easy to setup an account. They send you information that you are required to return (with a voided check) to activate the service.

This is even true if you have a Citibank account and not a third party account.

I haven't actually returned my paperwork yet, so I don't know how easy or convenient the service is.

Snowdog

This makes my life simpler. Since it's not a bank, I see no reason to let them handle my money. c2it from now on.

I just discovered it while reading a Salon article on PayPal's weak service. Apparently, it's run by Citibank, a REAL bank, so you'll less likely to get fucked over by them. (Keyword: less; banks still try to ram a dildo up your ass once in a while.)

There is a plethora of P2P payment services from the big financial services firms(c2it by Citi) to regular banks and such.

Of course, VISA, MasterCard, American Express and the other associations all have "initiatives" to understand and exploit P2P payments. I think it's great that PayPal has gone public. Wether they make it, are acquired, or burn through the 70 mil raised, at least it will put some more publicity on the P2P payments market.

Anything that shakes up the current merchant-issuer-acquirer-association arrangement might bring reduced rates and a more competitive environment.

C2IT.com run by CitiBank. It's a real bank, FDIC insured and their transaction fees are less than PayPal.

I haven't been burned by PayPal, but I have dealt with their customer support. They've never responded to my emails, and after FINALLY finding a phone number, half the time they say they're experiencing high call volumes and hang up on me, and the other half I deal with incompetent people.

So even though I haven't been burned, I'm not really going to stick around and wait for it to happen. I'll heed the advice of others and use C2it by CitiBank. Not only are they a real bank and FDIC insured... but all their fees are much less than PayPal's.