Domain: chademo.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to chademo.com.
Comments · 7
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Re:How will they then migrate to south in summer?
Tesla seems to have it covered...
http://insideevs.com/tesla-det...
That's just Tesla. There are thousands of others (3000 Chademo in Europe).
http://www.chademo.com/ -
Re:Slower, Same range, within 5 years?!?
There were no cars capable of 250k charging and the standard itself is limited to 80kW, so it was a stunt only. I have no idea where you got the 2008 date, the official international ChADeMO standard was released in 2011 ( http://www.iec.ch/dyn/www/f?p=... ).
Standards are not made by some aliens, but by people interested in them. The fact that Chademo standard wasn't finalized to the last detail until some years later doesn't mean compatible chargers didn't existed before.
http://www.japanfs.org/en/news...
http://www.greencarcongress.co...
http://www.chademo.com/wp/wp-c...
As Tesla has chosen to fragment market in "DVD regions" style and do not participate, their needs for more power were not addressed. It doesn't mean it is not possible with the same or compatible plug. You can always extend software protocol for more power options and leave it backwards compatible. Changing plugs of existing widespread infrastructure is next to impossible. Chademo plug geometry allows up to 200 A, likely more if you use different alloy to handle higher temperature. It means 80kW at 400V or 160kW at 800V.And anyway, it's being deprecated in favor of another shitty standard (from SAE this time).
Exactly. Some shitty "standard" was invented by German/US automakers to drag down Japanese EVs. Some FUD was spread that competitors are "deprecated" and it worked, you repeat it now. Tesla had option to use common open standard at that time and CCS may be not have happened. Like in Japan BMW i3 is sold with Chademo outlet instead of CCS:
http://insideevs.com/bmw-i3-ge...And no, Tesla network do not use one standard. In Europe and China their plug is completely different and not compatible with American version.
They are not completely different. They just use different wiring arrangements and can be adapted by a simple wiring adapter.
I don't think they sell such adapter, and I wouldn't be sure they would start charging when VIN from other region would be sent to supercharger, and you already may be carrying a dozen different adapters in your trunk or frunk. What a hassle. Well, next year we will see GM Bolt, and most likely GM's own (CSS or whatever) fast charging infrastructure will follow, more wider as GM (plus others) is bigger player, and Tesla will be left on isolated island. Isn't that what they wanted?
Model S are prevented from use superchargers as they check VIN when you plug in. Do you really want to say all this is good business ethics?
Since Tesla actually foots the electricity bills and funds the network rollout - that's perfectly fine. Also, superchargers are more powerful than ANY of the deployed standards out there right now.
It is called abuse in my book but as the are trying "to save the world" they are entitled to do anything in they eyes of their fans. Most evil things in the human history were done by people fighting "for greater good". They receive lots of subsidized loans/credits/all kinds perks from all taxpayers and it isn't exactly correct that they foot all the bills or that it is impossible for them to charge others for use of their network to recoup all reasonable costs. Such practice may be even become illegal in Europe soon, there is bill proposed that publicly accessible charging stations should not be discriminating against other EVs. How about gas stations with different hoses and owned by GM, Toyota, BMW, each incompatible with each other? Do you imagine what absurd waste of resour
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Re:He continues to show himself to be ...
Are the superchargers a unique selling point of their products or are they an enabling infrastructure?
At this point the former, but he's made statements in the past he'd like it to be the latter. Of course, of the common-build EVs*, his has the largest battery packs capable of taking the fastest charge. At 120 kW, a supercharger station blows most other EV stations out of the water.
For example, J1772 maxes out at 19.2kW at AC level 2, and 90kW for DC level 2., with the DC lvl 2 standard not even being finalized yet, and DC level 3 still in the initial planning stages.
CHAdeMO's wiki is less useful, but it's connector is limited to 62kW. It's homepage lists chargers that max out at 60kW.I'll also say that compared to Tesla's chargers, the alternatives are indeed clunky. I think that Tesla compatibility might be a compelling choice if I'm making a moderate(150+ miles) or longer ranged EV if it enables me to sell access to the supercharger network as a feature point.
*Disclaimer because I'm sure there's one-offs that can do just the same.
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Re:Another one?
So you can have a relatively low-cost, slow charger at home. Charging stations can provide a fast DC charge.
This is the whole idea, it makes tons of sense and is exactly where manufacturers are headed... oh wait, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Peugeot etc are already there!
Maybe this SAE re-announcement is only meant to muddy the waters about DC fast charging, in the hope to slow down its much-needed deployment in the US and possibly elsewhere, reducing the usefulness and therefore attractiveness of pure EVs... To please some existing industry(ies)? To help non-Japanese automakers catch up? [insert your own conspiration theories here]
Unless Nissan comes up with a surprise with its 2013 Leaf (2011 and 2012 use CHAdeMO), or Tesla Motors jumps ship, this SAE proposal doesn't seem in good shape...
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standards war bad, but still progress
I agree with your standards war analysis. SAE had a "bake-off" between the Frankenplug and CHAdeMO for fast DC charging, but the standards process was dominated by companies that don't have a pure EV for sale. They have every incentive to pick a slightly better standard in defiance of the only DC fast charge system shipping in cars you can buy and charging stations on the ground (1154 in Japan, 207 in Europe, and 34 elsewhere according to http://chademo.com/).
The significance of this announcement is that the Europeans have gone for it. The existing SAE J1772 AC charging standard (up to 19 kW) benefited USA and Japan but didn't support Europe where much higher power three-phase 400V AC charging is simple thanks to its 240V supply; so the Europeans were off proposing the Mennekes plug for up to 43 kW.
Many companies announced CHAdeMO charging stations in the hope of making big $$$, I think all were blindsided by the relatively cheap charger Nissan introduced that they say they'll put in all their dealers. The best hope is that they all offer a charging station with two plugs during the transition.
The "best" plug is the Tesla SuperCharger (scroll down for a pic), slim, elegant, reuses the same pins for DC and AC, also goes to 90 kW. But it never had a serious chance at standardization.
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Brilliant, a yet-different American-only "standard
And predictably, the only 2 major players in the EV market now, Nissan and Mitsubishi, will just stick to the only widely-deployed fast-charge connector to date, CHAdeMO http://www.chademo.com/
By announcing this new American-only Frankenplug, the SAE only helps delaying the (IMHO much-needed) EV adoption in the US and related charging infrastructure. But that's probably exactly what Chrysler & Co want, so they have more time catching up with the Japanese automakers...
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30 minute fast DC recharges
The Leaf's optional DC fast charge to 80% takes 30 minutes from a 50 kW CHAdeMO charging station. There are 800 in Japan, 150 in Europe and a handful in the USA, though supposedly most Nissan dealers will be installing them.
Some (all?) Model S variants will support Tesla's own 90 kW Supercharger, which will give a 50% charge boost in 30 minutes (150 mile range in a 300 mile pack). Also the Model S pack is swappable, so for a long trip you could borrow a 300 mile pack from a Tesla store (for now Tesla is vague on the details).
Meanwhile some USA and European car makers have endorsed a proposed third DC fast charger, the SAE J1772 "combo-coupler" with two extra fat pins beyond the current plug that almost all plug-in cars for DC charging up to 90 kW. The joy of standards...
30 minutes is still longer than a gas vehicle, but it makes the occasional long-distance trip (on which you didn't take your family's other car, or rent, or fly) more practical. I'm sure it's not enough for you, from your comments you seem allergic to EVs for a host of reasons. But you don't speak or buy for everyone.