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Netherlands Looks To Ban All Non-Electric Cars By 2025 (yahoo.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Politicians in the Netherlands have proposed a law which could put a ban on sales of diesel and petrol cars by 2025. A majority of the lower house in the Dutch parliament approved a motion where all fossil fuel powered cars -- including hybrids -- would be banned. Yahoo News further reports, 'While it's still unclear whether the proposal will pass and become law, the ambitious plan would involve car manufacturers getting on board to produce enough electric vehicles to meet demand. The latest electric cars have shorter charging times and longer ranges, benefits that emission-free car evangelists hope will help make them appeal to users of traditional petrol and diesel cars." More details on this here.
This will be interesting to see how this plays out...
A well known event that happens every year in Europe is when people from Belgium and the Netherlands pack their stuff in their cars and migrate through Germany to southern Europe. This pisses of the Germans as their autobahns are stock full of cars. .. how will they continue to do this with cars that only move a few hundred km between recharges?
what exactly is this trying to accomplish?
emission free whilst a nice idea isn't practical or realistic even for electric cars, that energy comes from somewhere ... even if you consider solar there are emissions from manufacturing
find out where the failure points are. revise. retool. try again.
Or you can bike. Or you can skate on a canal in the winter. Nobody in Holland needs cars.
your argument is stupid and lazy.
Lots and lots of trucks.
Sounds like Dutch people will have to go to Germany just to buy a new car...
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
are you suggesting the poor should have an unlimited inalienable right to pollute?
When they have banned incandescent bulbs, people were hoarding them. Later regular, old fashion, tungsten bulbs reappeared but were no longer called light bulbs, but rather heating elements.
We have to assume they will hoard cars.
And those who want will find a way to circumvent every nonsensical law: there will be a lot of exceptions. Some already pointed out that if Dutch wants to travel to Spain or France, will they be required to rent a car? There is a reason free market works best.
Had we listened to the horse cart manufacturers 100 years ago, we could have, by law, had 50% of the households to keep a horse. Imagine all the streets covered with the horse manure..
A well known event that happens every year in Europe is when people from Belgium and the Netherlands pack their stuff in their cars and caravans and migrate through Germany to southern Europe. This pisses of the Germans as their autobahns are stock full of caravan-towing slow-moving cars. .. how will they continue to do this with cars that only move a few hundred km between recharges?
FTFY :)
I expect that commercial vehicles will be exempt, so this will naturally result in all manner of cronyism in the permitting of vehicles for "commercial" use. Fuel/carbon taxes will continue to be infinitely more effective than mandates.
Do they really think manufacturers will price their cars below market equilibrium? Is there a price ceiling on electric cars in the Netherlands?
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
I know the Netherlands isn't a huge country, but at some point, battery demand is going to outstrip battery capacity. Will the capacity be available to satisfy this demand?
Source: http://www.economist.com/node/...
There are other articles along the same lines, removing auto exhaust is certainly going to have an effect but its not even close to the largest problem that needs immediate action
Why do you talk so much about yourself?
Here, we used this when they slapped 'luxury taxes' and 'gas guzzler taxes' on full sized sedans and station wagons. Everyone jumped in pickup trucks and SUVs. Once Congress recognized the unintended consequences*, they cancelled the taxes. But nobody switched back.
*They briefly tried raising the GVW needed to qualify as a truck. Enter the Lincoln Navigator and H2 Hummer. 'We'll raise it even more'. Manufacturers built vehicles based on the Kodiak chassis and similar. We can move up scale faster than Congress can write laws. Someone Photoshopped the next possible step and cooler heads prevailed.
Have gnu, will travel.
The have-nots should feel privileged they still have the right to exist. For the time being.
I agree with this 100%
Most non-electric cars really suck at floating. It's not like they built them like the VW Beetle way back when. And water ingestion will kill the engine.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
You didn't get the memo, did you?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Considering they want to ban the poor from even breatging, taking our cars is only a minor thing.
... I am perfectly okay with this as long as they promise to sequester the sum total of all industrial pollution that comes from manufacturing the batteries so it doesn't have to pollute my air or water.
Original title
The Netherlands Could Soon Ban The Sale Of Non-Electric Cars
Emphasis mine.
Slashdot title:
Netherlands Looks To Ban All Non-Electric Cars By 2025
This would mean retroactively banning all non-electric vehicles already on the road, and would incur dire constitutional consequences.
This is not a "ban on all non-electric vehicles". According to TFA, it is a ban on the sale of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, with currently-owned vehicles grandfathered. Perhaps a market will emerge for coal-burning steam-engined cars.
TFA did not mention whether the ban will include the purchase and importation of gas/diesel vehicles from outside the Netherlands. Seems obvious that the only way to get all gas/diesel vehicles off the road and keep them off is to prohibit the sale of the fuel that keeps them going.
Austria wants to do the same. I'm convinced it's a directive from the EU http://www.rudi.net/node/22400
Still, I'd like to see them try that... there's only so much nonsense people can take.
I had to search for some time to get to a news article dated March 29, http://nos.nl/artikel/2095952-tweede-kamer-vanaf-2025-alleen-nog-duurzame-auto-s.html (in Dutch). In an article from last Friday, http://nos.nl/artikel/2099414-kamp-niet-alleen-duurzame-auto-s-vanaf-2025.html (in Dutch), the government indicated they do not want to get this in to law. So a ban is far from being imposed...
Only the government or properly vetted people should be able to own trucks. All other trucks should be confiscated and destroyed. As a Progressive I think we need to do whatever we can to destroy white men and taking away their guns and trucks is a good start on the road that will eventually lead us to exterminating all white men. I'm ready for Hillary!
"rubber and glue" wasn't any good in elementary school, and it hasn't improved since then
"Although the beetle does definitely float, it will not float indefinitely". God, I love those things. Those indestructible air-cooled boxer engines, supposedly swappable with certain models made for Porsche.
But they are death-traps. That plate on the bottom at the beginning of the video, that forms the floor of the car, gives the car its stiffness and durability... unless an impact causes it to crack. Once it buckles, the cabin collapses and anything or anyone in the car gets squashed. Drive carefully, avoid accidents.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
If man will be alive
electric car he must drive...
I went from middle class to poor to bicycle. Worked for me, and I received no incentives for it.
I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
your argument is stupid and lazy.
No actually it's not, well at least not entirely. The answer is zero emission vehicles (electric cars) are best suited to the west whereas gas powered cars are more suited to the east. This is due (see the article) by more states in the east relying on coal fired electric plants:
http://www.motherjones.com/env...
The data is 2014 so it's not that stale. I think the takeaway is that just because it's a zero emission vehicle is does not follow that it'll have a better impact on the environment. But you can read the article.
I don't think anyone will miss breatging.
I have more hopes for natural gas or hydrogen or other resources.
captcha: plummet
a production electric car can travel 600 miles on a charge and recharging takes no more than five minutes. Beat the efficiency of my pre-scandal TDI.
In other words, Shipstones.
This not a ban yet. It is a request of the lower house to the government. The government is not really obliged to follow this request. Ofcourse it should take the request seriously, but if the government finds it is (totally) inpractical it does not implement this request. This request is not important enough to let the government fall.
PLEASE!!!! ENOUGH ALREADY with headlines that make factually inaccurate over-dramatized claims.
RTFA.
They're actually NOT banning all non-electric cars in 2025, they're just stopping the sale of any new gas/diesel cars.
I have a close friend who lives south of Amsterdam. While he doesn't need a car every day he does need it a few times a week, because as you get outside the major cities it starts to be come pretty inconvenient to use mass transit depending on what you are doing. Even though the Netherlands are a small country they are still the size of a smaller US State - most citizens in most states would not be well off without a car, much less one with more limited milage and very long refill times.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
supposedly swappable with certain models made for Porsche.
Supposedly?! I take it you're unfamiliar with the Porsche 912 and 914...
I am die hard motorcyclist...
I haven't seen any development of electronic motorcycles (because... duh, my motorcycle beats the crap outta ur fusion in mpg), but how does this bill handle that?
I was actually looking at relocating to the netherlands, but if I can't ride my bike, fuck that
Doubtless, Royal Dutch Shell will still have no problem selling oil to everyone else.
Proverbs 21:19
So, are you saying that removing the source of CO2, CO, NOx (ICE cars) and replacing them with EVs won't improve pollution?
What is the "largest problem" other than CO2, CO, NOx ?
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
The poor already can't afford cars because of the taxes on vehicles. They ride bicycles in Holland (I believe the only country on Earth where bicycles outnumber people). That being said, there are relatively fewer poor than there are in North America because of the extensive social safety net.
All nations need to get off of fossil fuels. Again, people in northern Europe lead the way. And despite the advantage of being a small nation battery power is difficult in cold regions. Batteries simply hate cold weather. Yet it can be done and the Netherlands is leading the way. Less educated nations will drag their feet as they always do. Yet our planet does not have the time to educate the Luddites.
Supposedly?! I take it you're unfamiliar with the Porsche 912 and 914...
I'd heard about it, but never seen a Beetle retrofitted with a Porsche engine in the flesh. Insane horsepower for such a car!
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
And you'll find out why I have one.
It was not a proposed law, but a PVDA (labour party, social democratic) vision on energy policy to base their next election propaganda on: http://www.pvda.nl/data/sitemanagement/media/2016-03/energievisie_pvda.pdf
It is however not that much of a problem. The majority of the population could make due with an electric car today, given it has a large enough range (think Tesla model s). My daily Dutch commute is a 160km round trip, perfectly doable in an electric car. Holidays abroad and other longer trips get a 20 min coffee brake for a 80% recharge and only if there is no destination charging. no problem. In fifteen years time, technology will probably have closed the remaining gap far enough for combustion engines to become an exception. Charger networks in and around the Netherlands are quite dense already and will grow even more in the remaining years.
Even though I do not vote for them, this part of their program I would support. As they say it in the vision text: "Cars with exhausts are the new cigaret: once very common and now less and less accepted by society" Once purchase prices get in the acceptable range I will trade my old comfortable BMW 530D dinosaur for a second hand (arguably less chique) Tesla.
I didn't check but the text also mentioned Norway already has a similar plan rolled out...
Seriously, California is considered one of the largest buyers of cars. In fact, they are MUCH bigger than the netherlands.
So, what would happen if CA was to say that no more ICE vehicles to be sold OR imported into California starting in 2025?
And if you are caught living in CA with an ICE vehicle, then said vehicle will be confiscated and you serve time.
I suspect that CA is big enough that car makers will have little choice but to join in on making viable vehicles. And if other nations join in, that just forces everything over faster.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
And now for our cars.
Seriously, they banned powerful vacuum cleaners.
Look it up.
Seeing as how li-ion energy density has been doubling every 10 years since 1990, you're talking out of your ass. I'll let you take 10 seconds to google the relevant data.
This sounds, for lack of a better word, stupid. How do we know what type of automobile will be the most efficient and environmentally friendly? How about a series hybrid that burns bio-generated liquid fuel in a super-efficient external combustion engine, powering electric motors to drive the wheels? The Dutch government can't possible know which technology to choose and any attempt will destroy any chance to find out.
Ban all non-electric car SALES, which is a different thing
No, your scenarios wouldn't happen because CA is in the United States and there would be a revolution to overthrow the government if the confiscation were to be attempted. Currently the Californians are putting up with the enviro-gibberish, but if it came to physically removing their vehicles then the masses would rise up in violent revolt.
Who the hell cares? You could drive across the whole country twice on a single AA battery. Here in the U.S., you can drive for days and still be in the same state! When I can drive an electric car 350 - 400 miles and "refuel" in under 10 minutes for another 350 - 400 miles of driving, swap drivers, and repeat as many times as necessary to reach my destination (say Los Angeles to New York, 2,787 miles, about 5 days), then you may be on to something. Till then, smoke some more of whatever you are using, and keep on dreaming...
No worries the country will be mostly underwater by 2050.
That's surely not in the Netherlands.
No need for scare tactics. Just a simple rule, that you cannot drive a gas car unless you are over 40. Then wait for vanity to kick in...
Re-read what I said.
I said that you could not register any more ICE vehicles. IOW, you still continue with what you have. THe only ones that would be confiscated would be those that were illegal in the first place. And yes, when you live in a state, your car is supposed to be registered/licensed there. So the ONLY ones that would object, are the criminals.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
No doubt! My uncle had a Beetle with wheelie bars since the Porsche engine would make it flip up when you floored it. Amazing swap. He would slap a $50 bill on the dash and if you could reach out and grab it, you could have it. No one ever got it in time.
Slow down folks. This is not a law proposal. It's just the energy vision of the PVDA which was presented on march 16. So 1 political party which says they would like to aim for this.
The other political parties are rolling around the Binnenhof laughing about it. Freely translated from dutch:
An MP from the VVD (dutch liberals): "We thought it was a joke. Their satnav is clearly broken."
and:
"Ambition is nice, but they are driving their electric cars in fairy land with this."
Slow down folks. There is no law proposal trying to ban gas powered cars. For you dutch reading folks. This is where this rumour comes from: http://www.pvda.nl/data/sitema... This is the energy vision of 1 political party, the PVDA (or dutch social democratic party). It was presented on march 16. Other political parties are having great fun with it, because this energy vision is clearly ludicrous. A couple of points even more outlandish than the electric car idea: -- All coal fired electric plants will close within 10 years -- All newly built houses will get heat exchangers and solar panels instead of traditional central heating.
Like cars that use air pressure, fuel cells, nuclear?
Never gonna happen, Electric Nutters.
It's an useless motion. It has already been rejected by the Home Secretary as unrealistic, so now the wording is being changed to "intention" rather than an outright ban. It's also unrealistic because The Netherlands are part of the EU, which means any cars sold in the member states are legal. Therefore a ban would have to be done EU-wide, which will never work because of the car lobby and the bureaucracy in Brussels.
How very democrat of you. Not even caring about the poor. Your attitude seem to suggest the poor should die to to stop "global warming" which has not proof.
Breathing produces same Co2 as cars.
In Brazil, alcohol fueled vehicles are pretty common (in fact, people prefer then for the lower fuel price). The vehicle price is the same of gas only models. In Japan I know there are hydrogen powered taxis. The price however is very high even with government incentive.
But both of them offer instant "charge", instead of an eletric car. And in the alcohol case, we have the facilities to build those cars right now.
I hope they plan to keep all of those expired batteries within their country so they don't poison the rest of the world with their conservation efforts.
Do they have a plan for how to deal with all the batteries that will get replaced each year? Are there recyclable batteries suitable for use in an electric car? Other than that I believe consolidating pollution to a single-source, in this cases the power company producing the electricity used to charge the batteries, is a good thing. It is far easier to manage, filter, capture the pollution from one source than it is from a million sources.
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
Holland generates the vast majority of its power from fossil fuels -- nuclear is only 3.5% and the renewables target is only 14%.
Your "argument" us stupid, lazy and fact free.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Yes, 100 BHP (biggest 4-cyl 914 was the 2.0L) would be fun in a lightweight car like the Bug. Probably 0-60 in 8-9s. My old 66 had a 0-60 time >20s.
The 914 itself was around 12s 0-60 with the "big" 2.0L.
> Politicians in the Netherlands have proposed a law
and it will never get voted into actual law... at least not for 2025.