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Nazis did that kind of stuff in the 1930s by falconwolf · 2009-06-10 15:37 · Score: 1 · on Online Vigilantes, Or "Crowdsourced Justice"

The NAZIs just played on an undercurrent of antisemitism. For centuries Jews were discriminated against and harassed. And they weren't the only ones. Agnostics, Muslims, Wiccans and other Pagans were as well. As queen of Castile Isabella, who created a united Spain, demanded that either non-Christians convert to Christianity or leave Spain. Sephardim or Spanish Jews and Spanish Moors left en mass. Others such as Agnostic Christians were persecuted or massacred.

Also it was not the NAZIs' goal to exterminate all Jews, what they wanted was for all Jews to leave Europe, ie the "Final Solution" of the Holocaust when some Jews would not leave. In 1932-3 the NAZis negotiated with Jewish leaders in Europe wherein those Jews who wanted to leave would be helped by the NAZIs. The SS and Gestapo even trained Jews. As part of the negotiations there were two agreements made between Jews and NAZIs, the Haavara Agreement or Transfer Agreement and the Rublee-Wohlthat-Abkommen. The first one was an agreement for Jewish emigration to Palestine and the second was to anywhere outside of Europe. Now with the British Mandate of Palestine the British barred Jews from immigrating to Palestine, thus the NAZI's training of Jews. Today it's Palestinians who are called terrorists but through the 1930s until the independence of Israel in 1948 it was Jews who were the terrorists.

Falcon

Re:The problem is not the bomb itself by diablomonic · 2006-08-27 04:00 · Score: 0, Troll · on Iranian Heavy Water Nuke Plant Goes Online Today

from my understanding of it, mainly "just" the widespread usage of gas chambers to kill jews/orders from the top down to exterminate them: ie, they accept that jews were rounded up, placed in forced labour camps, often worked to death, malnourished, tattoed and numbered, persecuted, treated extremely badly, tortured, experimented on, murdered, and at least hundreds of thousands died. Basically what they are saying is that the gas chambers are made up/exagerated, but most of the rest of the story is true. Now I fully admit that this sounds a little crazy, given what we "know", to anyone who hasnt looked at their arguments, and I would have thought this untill recently, but now, while I am not yet convinced they are right, from what I have seen so far, I am convinced of two things and strongly suspicious of the third

1) the holocaust, true or false is being abused for malicious purposes by a variety of groups, and at least parts of it have been willingly exagerated/deceptively portrayed by people who should know better.

2) The holocaust revisionists case, at least on the surface, is quite strong. What I mean by this is that the arguments/evidence I have so far seen are well thought out, cogent, and fairly convincing IF the underlying info checks out. howeverI have not yet had time to thouroughly check out much of this underlying info, so I cant yet say how much is true or not.

3) Some very powerful groups are hiding something. It may not be that the holocaust didnt occur, it may be more related to why it occured or who else was involved, Im not sure yet. Why else have this media blackout on what their arguments are, deceptive statements about what they actually believe, and worldwide (already fairly successful) push for anti free-speech laws jailing people for even discussing it? (this is the one im only semi sure of. It's probably mostly widespread unconcious denial on the media's part, after buying the "info" given out on the holocaust, and therefore having an emotional response to people trying to deny its occurance, not "conspiracy", however not everything can be explained by this)

of course, Im just a youngish whipper-snapper with no personal experience in the area (though my grandma was held in a Japanese POW camp, and is still messed up over half a century later) so its hard for me to be sure of much of anything. Its ALL stories to me, I've just gotta decide which ones I believe.(and watch out for the white supremacist assholes hijacking the issue for their own racist purposes)

You know what really got me thinking? before I even looked into it, I was talking about a different issue, and my mum mentioned holocaust deniers, and how its rediculous, and my own grandma has the tattoos to prove it. When I stumbled onto some revisionist stuff, and saw that they werent actually denying that, I realised: hell most people probably feel this way, knowing someone involved, and for this reason will look no further, except this proves nothing; one it was a japanese camp, but two, its based on a misunderstanding of what they are actually denying, and its not the rounding up and tattooing.

If you feel like having a look through, heres a video archive revisionist look at the operation reinhardt death camps, and the evidence for/against them. I would be grateful if someone with decent knowledge in the area could watch them properly and point out any (serious) lies, errors or relevant ommisions in them (not just nitpicking though)

deathcamp investigation

interview with Dr F piper, mainstream Auschwitz historian)

also google "dsmrd"