Slashdot Mirror

That is exactly what I'm saying. Praise be to OTR.

Can't something like OTR (Off The Record messaging - http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/) be applied to SIP or IAX conversations? I know it was designed for slow, IM-type packet traffic, but the crypto is there. It can't be that hard :)

If you think that a corporation is limited to standard free AIM accounts then you're seriously mistaken. A quick glance through AIM@Work shows that corporations have the ability to restrict logins based on IP#, authenticate against the corporation's LDAP server, provide users with person@corporation.com chat names to match corporate e-mail addresses, encryption via certificates, and other features that cater to corporate IM needs. This is perfect when you want to deal with other corporations while giving your company a presence in an incredibly populated IM service. This is great because you don't want to go giving ALL of your client's accounts on your corporate Jabber server... A perfect example of this all are those mac.com chat addresses that Apple gives out with their mac.com subscription. You know who those people are affiliated with as soon as they IM you. AIM@Work is good business. It's much more flexible and secure than regular AIM and it's MUCH more widely used than private Jabber (or whatever else) servers.

On top of all that, even a standard AIM account is capable of securing IM's by using things like OTR so it doesn't matter how many 3rd party servers the messages go through. Besides, saying that people shouldn't communicate through 3rd party servers is like saying "call them on a purely POTS telephone line." It's pretty much impossible. Every online communication standard goes through 3rd party servers, and this even includes things that aren't considered online, such as your long distance, your cell phone, and probably your local land line.

So am I free to say and do anything(talking to another on IM that is) without it ever coming back to haunt me?

You are if you use an off-the-record plugin.

I agree. This whole hypefest may be a storm in a thimble but it reinforces the need to use an end-to-end encryption that you control. Personally I think Ethereal is a more real threat than the AOL ToS but the solution is the same.

For encryption, I'm not an advocate of gaim-encryption as the answer. It means that people all need to use Gaim and that's just not practical. Personally I think OTR is a better option. As well as a GAIM plug-in it offers a proxy so that any IM tool can be made secure, and it addresses the weaknesses gaim-encryption ignores - from their FAQ:

The gaim-encryption plugin provides encryption and authentication, but not deniability or perfect forward secrecy. If an attacker or a virus gets access to your machine, all of your past gaim-encryption conversations are retroactively compromised. Further, since all of the messages are digitally signed, there is difficult-to-deny proof that you said what you did: not what we want for a supposedly private conversation!

Off-the-Record Messaging.

Off-the-Record (OTR) Messaging allows you to have private conversations over instant messaging by providing:

Encryption: No one else can read your instant messages. Authentication You are assured the correspondent is who you think it is.

Deniability: The messages you send do not have digital signatures that are checkable by a third party. Anyone can forge messages after a conversation to make them look like they came from you. However, during a conversation, your correspondent is assured the messages he sees are authentic and unmodified.

Perfect forward secrecy: If you lose control of your private keys, no previous conversation is compromised.

and yes, it has a GAIM plugin. i hear it will work with ichat RSN.

... gaim-otr http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/

The next version (0.8) of Adium for OS X will have built-in (and extremely easy to use... it can be set as the default) Off-the-Record messaging to allow for encrypted IMs.

Like someone already posted... http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/

Gaim/Adium/otherwise libgaim-based folks, don't forget Off The Record encryption, which can encrypt your messages regardless of the protocol. No worries if you have things to say over AIM that you REALLY don't want others to see. But if that's the case... why are you saying them over AIM anyhow?

off-the-record messaging is a standalone library which has also been included in a gaim plugin - its encryption with NO digital signing at all, however it still provides authentication (unlike trillians secureIM, which doesnt let you know WHO the hell you're talking to, despite the encryption.) it works for both nix and windows versions of gaim - i'm no encryption expert, but i sure um...feel a lot safer when using it.

perhaps someone more qualified than i can peruse their whitepaper and give some more informed feedback as to the security/robustness of the protocol/implementation :)

off-the-record messaging is a standalone library which has also been included in a gaim plugin - its encryption with NO digital signing at all, however it still provides authentication (unlike trillians secureIM, which doesnt let you know WHO the hell you're talking to, despite the encryption.) it works for both nix and windows versions of gaim - i'm no encryption expert, but i sure um...feel a lot safer when using it.

perhaps someone more qualified than i can peruse their whitepaper and give some more informed feedback as to the security/robustness of the protocol/implementation :)

Buy the computer, and then return it, because you don't agree with the EULA (that you couldn't even read).

When Dell stops this bullshit, and offers a windows delete credit across their entire product line (without invalidating warranties), then you will finally know that Dell isn't paying lip service to Linux anymore (and pocketing the Microsoft tax), and is no longer flagrant in its utter contempt for its customers.

That "bullshit" link you posted contains a really interesting story from a few months ago called "Dude, you're getting screwed" about how Dell screws over the customer wrt license agreements and has no ability or understanding of what they are even asking their customers to agree to. Take 5 minutes and read it.

Not exactly Dell is an understatement. I've looked at their computers. Overpriced for less features. Should I pay more out of my pocket so that Microsoft doesn't get a small cut?

Maybe I'll waste money on ridiculous solar panels, including taxpayer subsidies, so that I can say that I'm green, and poorer for it.

While I'd never buy a Dell thanks to their bios and licensing stunts, I wouldn't waste money on an Element computer either. I'll find another computer at a lower price than Element, with better hardware features including larger screen, better resolution, more memory, larger hard drive, which includes Windows, at a lower price, then wipe windows and install Linux. At least until Dell and other major manufacturers stop their games and offer a windows delete credit that isn't a joke.

Element may have great Linux computers, but I'm not paying a premium for inferior "options".

When Dell stops this bullshit, and offers a windows delete credit across their entire product line (without invalidating warranties), then you will finally know that you aren't paying a full microsoft tax when you order a computer with Linux or some other operating system.

The FreeDos website has links to the Dell 360 desktop. The interesting thing I found, was that the default configuration with Windows (any version) selected as the OS costs $2863. The exact same options with Red Hat or Free DOS is only $2234.

Yes, that's right. Dell is rooking $629 for Windows. If that doesn't piss you off enough, read this.
However, I do have to say that I am glad there are now 2 major hardware vendors selling desktop systems with Linux as the only OS. IMHO, this is the only thing that IBM needs to do to solidify their commitment to Linux. I love what they're doing with Linux servers, but I sure wish I could buy a Thinkpad with a hardware modem and Linux.

SOFTWARE LICENSES

- Before using your computer, read all of the software license
agreements that came with each program that you ordered.
There may be several agreements to examine. To comply with
the terms and conditions of the software license agreements,
you must consider any CD or diskette set of Dell-installed software
as BACKUP copies of the software installed on your computer's
hard-disk drive.

- If you did not order Dell-installed software for this computer,
or if you do not accept all the terms of the licenses, please call
the customer assistance telephone number listed in your system
documentation.

Press any key on the keyboard to indicate that you have
read all of the software licenses and agree to their terms.

Be Direct TM
Dell TM
www.dell.com

But there are no license agreements in the box that the computer came in. [There are some shrinkwrapped CD containers, but the "Terms and Conditions of Sale (CANADA)" that came with the invoice says:

"7. Software. All software is provided subject to the license
agreement that is part of the package. Customer agrees that
it will be bound by the license agreement once the package is
opened or its seal is broken. Dell does not warrant any software
under this Agreement. Warranties, if any, for the software are
contained in the license agreement that governs its purchase
and use."

I've never agreed to those Terms and Conditions, to my knowledge, but I assume they think they're enforceable, so I can't open up the shrinkwrap to see if the license agreements are in there, without automatically agreeing to them.]

So I called the only Dell number I could find on my documentation (1-800-847-4096) and spoke to a customer support representative. I told her what was on the screen, and told her I couldn't find the license agreements I'm required to read and agree to before pressing any key.

She put me on hold while she looked into where the license agreements might be, and eventually transferred me to technical support. The tech support agent told me her database was down, so she couldn't look up anything at all (I hadn't even told her what the problem was yet), and I'd have to call back in an hour.

I call back, and speak to a tech support woman. She says: "press Tab." I explain that I can't without saying I've read and agreed to documents I don't have. She says "press page down". Same problem. She says "scroll down". I explain it's not a Windows screen. She says "insert any Dell-shipped CD". I exlpain the problem of opening the CD packaging.

She insists I have to press a key. I ask her if she really means that I have to agree to the licenses before it's at all possible that i've read them. She says "yes". I explain that that's not acceptable, and ask for her supervisor.

Her supervisor insists it's a Customer Care issue, and not tech support, and that there's nothing he can do. He can't explain why they sent me to him. He enters my info into the call log databse, and I go to call back Customer Care.
So back into the hold queue I go.

I'm finally connected to a Customer Care representative. [Pretty much each sentence in the following was interspersed with long, long times on hold.]

She looked up the call log to get the background info. She insists she doesn't have copies of the agreements, and that I'm supposed to go

Dell's Software License Policy
Dude, you're getting screwed.
28 Aug 2003

Kat and I just received the Dell Inspiron 5100 notebook we ordered from Dell Canada. We quickly ran across problems.

I pushed the power button to turn on computer. I got the Dell POST screen, then a screen from Dell (Photo):

SOFTWARE LICENSES

- Before using your computer, read all of the software license
agreements that came with each program that you ordered.
There may be several agreements to examine. To comply with
the terms and conditions of the software license agreements,
you must consider any CD or diskette set of Dell-installed software
as BACKUP copies of the software installed on your computer's
hard-disk drive.

- If you did not order Dell-installed software for this computer,
or if you do not accept all the terms of the licenses, please call
the customer assistance telephone number listed in your system
documentation.

Press any key on the keyboard to indicate that you have
read all of the software licenses and agree to their terms.

Be Direct TM
Dell TM
www.dell.com

But there are no license agreements in the box that the computer came in. [There are some shrinkwrapped CD containers, but the "Terms and Conditions of Sale (CANADA)" that came with the invoice says:

"7. Software. All software is provided subject to the license
agreement that is part of the package. Customer agrees that
it will be bound by the license agreement once the package is
opened or its seal is broken. Dell does not warrant any software
under this Agreement. Warranties, if any, for the software are
contained in the license agreement that governs its purchase
and use."

I've never agreed to those Terms and Conditions, to my knowledge, but I assume they think they're enforceable, so I can't open up the shrinkwrap to see if the license agreements are in there, without automatically agreeing to them.]

So I called the only Dell number I could find on my documentation (1-800-847-4096) and spoke to a customer support representative. I told her what was on the screen, and told her I couldn't find the license agreements I'm required to read and agree to before pressing any key.

She put me on hold while she looked into where the license agreements might be, and eventually transferred me to technical support. The tech support agent told me her database was down, so she couldn't look up anything at all (I hadn't even told her what the problem was yet), and I'd have to call back in an hour.

I call back, and speak to a tech support woman. She says: "press Tab." I explain that I can't without saying I've read and agreed to documents I don't have. She says "press page down". Same problem. She says "scroll down". I explain it's not a Windows screen. She says "insert any Dell-shipped CD". I exlpain the problem of opening the CD packaging.

She insists I have to press a key. I ask her if she really means that I have to agree to the licenses before it's at all possible that i've read them. She says "yes". I explain that that's not acceptable, and ask for her supervisor.

Her supervisor insists it's a Customer Care issue, and not tech support, and that there's nothing he can do. He can't explain why they sent me to him. He enters my info into the call log databse, and I go to call back Customer Care.

So back into the hold queue I go.

I'm finally connected to a Customer Care representative. [Pretty much each sentence in the following was interspersed with long, long times on hold.]

She looked up the call log to get the background info. She insists she doesn't have copies of the agreements, and that I'm supposed to go online and look them up myself. (?!) She says to use a public computer if I have to. I ask how to know what companies have software on m