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I really miss speakers that are made with real wood enclosures they sounded so much fuller, crisper, and bigger. Then again I have a tube stack with a 4x12 oak slant back offset classic and greenback Celestions that sounds like it's a crisp 300 watts (it's only 200) compared to the new stuff anyway.

Me too.

I have a pair of Klipschorns 50th anniversary speakers ....horn loaded, VERY efficient, and they are made to run with tube amps. I have a couple of older Decware SET amps (I have the long old, SE84C). .....sounds really nice. I'd like to some day get an old McIntosh amp, but even old 60's versions are pretty $$$$.

I'm very tempted to dig out my old turn table...I'm SO disappointed with so many of the new "remixes" they have been putting out of my artists which are classic rocksters.....they have succumbed to the compression wars and there is no fucking dynamic range anymore.

From what I understand, with the physical limitations of the vinyl format, they really can't over compress. Even though my hearing isn't what it used to be, I can still hear that my music often doesn't sound as good as it did when I was a kid. With new stuff, I quickly get ear fatigue, but with something well recorded on my system, even at pretty high volumes, I don't get ear fatigue and can listen endlessly.

I have a few gems on digital...Jethro Tull's Aqualung put out a year or so ago for a remastered anniversary edition is amazingly well done. It has plenty of dynamic range, and they've brought forth instruments that I'd never really heard before..it is great.

But like my Stones re-issues...ugh...they've killed what used to be fun recordings.

I'm hoping my vinyl experiment might give me back the sound I want to hear....and not be processed to sound like shit like so many engineers seem to aspire to create (or destroy).

I mean, if you're only listening to ear buds (even $$$ ones are limited in bass response, etc), or in a car (one of the worst listening environments conceived)....then sure it won't make a difference, and portability makes a lot of sense too.

However, in a nice listening environment, with good equipment...it is worth the effort IMHO.

For instance, I have a pair of Klipschorns ...paired with a couple of the much older models of the Decware SET amps , running mono to each channel..plus an older 15" 800W Klipsch sub, etc......

Even with my older ears, I can hear differences in recordings and formats. Not as well as I used to be able to, but I figure, WHY would I want anything less than the best I can get for the given time/situation? When listening at home, I rip my music to flac, and have it play on my living room stereo.

And hey....kinda fun to watch the Flintstones in concert volume on tv too from time to time, or hell, once hooked the MAME machine to it....Robotron 2084 is fun with the room shaking around you.

God, my neighbors used to hate me when I live in a place where I had to share walls...

But not me...I like my speakers BIG and my amp to be small and glowing (actually mine is an older model and was only $400 back in the day).

Large efficient horn speakers, and SET tube amps..to me...sound like magic.

I do need to buy a 2nd amp to have one for each channel, just to get a little more volume..but not by much.

I have other speakers and run through a processor for movies...but for just stereo...a source and what I have above is just magic.

I started with a walmart type record player....but saved for an old Marantz reciever...then turntable...then a Sharp cassette...then a Nakamichi deck.....etc. I kept trading up over the years as I got more money and found good deals. I don't have a McIntosh yet, but, I run with an older version of this Decware amp (when it was only $400), and K-Horns...even with my decaying hearing from years of loud concerts...I can often hear differences in not only the quality of the source recording, but what format it is in. All the time? No...but, I'd put money down that someone younger with more sensitive ears could pick out mp3 vs lossless on comparisons. Take a look at the sensitivity and frequency range of the speakers...you can hear a LOT on these things.

Now, on the run of the mill crap you buy at Best Buy...no, I'd guess you couldn't hear the difference, nor in a car or a mobile player with crappy earbuds.

I'm not saying buy $2K speaker cables or interconnects...that is a crock for sure, but, in many cases with speakers and amps...you do get what you pay for...

Klipschorns mine are actually 50th anniversary.

Decware amp I'm about to get a 2nd one, and bridge each mono.

Currently for center channel and surrounds for HT times...I have an old Carver cathedral amp, but, eventually I'm hoping to get some older McIntosh amps for each of the other channels besides the front two, I like the SET amp sound from them.

As you can see...I have low power, but, highly efficient speakers...and it can get loud...especially when I bridge the amps in the front, or switch to playing on higher wattage...but, I do like quality. Anyway, I've still consistantly had chicks say turn it down...especially when they want to 'talk' or something...

:)

I've got a pretty decent home system. I can hear the difference of good vs bad recording on it...even with ears not being what they used to be.

I prefer to have the best quality I can have for home listening, and to rip to lossy formats for horrible listening environments like the car and on the portable for the gym. I mean, why would anyone not want the best possibly copy for perm. storage, and then rip from that to suit needs? Seems like a no brainer for me. I don't have the fastest connection at home (about 7mbit down), but, its fast enough that downloading a whole uncompressed cd isn't THAT bad...lossless AAC would not be a big deal.

I've got good speakers and a decent amp to run them on and a decent subwoofer and soon to get a newer processer. I've got klipsch center channel, and some day hope to round out the surround with klipsch heresey's or the like.

No, I didn't plunk down a bunch of $$ all at once, but, have been building my stereo since I was 12...a piece here and there, swapping out things over the years. It is very efficient and I can hear differences in music on it. On good recordings, you can hear people breathing in the background...

I'm not an 'audiophile'...I don't freeze my stereo cables...but, I do and always have as a kid, appreciated good sound reproduction...I bought what sounded best to my ears. Others that have heard my system agree often that it is good. So, for people out there (there has to be more than just me) that want good sound for home listening...they want the best source they can get for that.....and go from there for poorer listening environments.

Oh..for sure...if you look at some REALLY high end audio, it is all tube based. I don't know all that much about it, but, I read it has something to do maybe with 2nd order harmonics, that actually make sounds more 'real' to the human ear?

I don't really know the scientific reasons behind it, others might....but, I've always loved good tube amps for stereo sound reproduction!! I currently use a SET tube amp from Decware ...this is their lower end model, and I got it years back when it was about $300 or so I think. Anyway, my speakers are very efficient (about 101db I think), and this thing makes music sound like magic.

I've built a small tube pre-amp from Doc Bottlehead that I've yet to finish and hook up, but, from what I hear, a good tube pre-amp can make for some really nice sound.

You're not driving these to distortion like you would a tube guitar amp...which I too find to be QUITE pleasing....but, the tube audio gear isn't run to that level of distortion.

I got hooked on the combo of tube hear and efficient horn loaded speakers at age 12 when I heard a McIntosh tube amp running a pair of Klipschorns....that was what sound reproduction was supposed to sound like to me.

I'm close to that now with the decware amp and K-Horns....I'm keeping a sharp eye out at estate sales to see if I can find a couple of McIntosh amps that someone might sell for a more reasonable price. Good amps on eBay are a bit out of my price range...and this is for amps that are 40 and 50 years old....

I'd highly recommend the old horn loaded speakers by Klipsch like these klipschorns . They are so effecient. I don't want to start a flame war on tube vs. SS...pick what you want. Me? I fell in love with tube amps paired with horn speakers when I was twelve..

I finally was able to get a pair of the 50th anniversary K-Horns a few years back...and run them off a Decware amp that is SET tube..only 2 watts per channel. Hell, I've seen k-horns run off a jam box and would kill your ears almost.

The lower priced ones...even the Heresey's are fantastic, even at low volumnes. This means you can buy high quality, lower power you can afford, and still have a system that will have your friends going..."What is that? Never heard real sound before"....

I've seen mods for CD/DVD boxes that involve a tube stage in them before...have an open mind, and give a listen if you get a chance..it does seem to soften some of the harshness of some SS amps I've hears.

Again, not to start the analog vs SS war...listen to what you like..but, keep an open mind, and listen to a lot of things...see what you like best.

The only thing I'll say about tubes....since I now like them better than the SS stuff I had. I find with them...I can listen to music, loud or soft LONGER than I used to....I don't experience what I call 'ear fatigue' like I used to/

On an off topic rant...What's the deal with Live 8 coverage on tv?

I was watching hoping for the great experience I had when Live Aid was on.....they haven't hardly showed a whole song of a set much less a whole set. Why the fuck aren't they showing the whole concert? I'm in the US watching on MTV...is it this shitty all over the world? Hope someone has a good unfucked up feed...and can put it on USENET or something...

I just recently bought a used Fender Twin Reverb II amp...all tube. The guitar tone is just fantastic. My home amp is a little, very price friendly, amp I got off the web. I got the SE84C and have been VERY happy with it. But, you gotta have extremely efficient speakers...I have Klipschorns which are pretty retro too...as that the design of these hasn't really changed since about 1940.

Also pretty cool...are the nixie clocks I've seen around...just trying to find one that is reasonably priced...and not made with tubes that are rapidly becoming unavailable.

But, if nothing else....electronics that 'glow' are cool...

:-)

Bought an amp over $5000 recently? was it solid-state? thought not.

Yes. It's called distortion.

"Tube amplifiers produce more (total) harmonic distortion, but the type they produce is referred to as even order distortion, and is not as harsh-sounding as the odd order distortion transistors produce. Large amounts of even-order distortion (as high as 1-2%) produces little listening fatigue, and can even be relatively pleasant. Electric guitar players favor tube amps for this very reason. On the other hand, small amounts of odd-order distortion (less than .5%) are audible, even by untrained ears, and make music harder to enjoy." - http://www.decware.com/debate.htm

Or valves, as British people prefer saying, are making a comeback. Some people tend to prefer the warm sound produced by tubes. Of course, tubes were always there in the audio production end, however, tubes are increasingly being used on the playback end. Some manufacturers are still selling tube gear, and they appear to be quite popular.

Although not very cheap, I think that tubes look pretty cool.

This is a point that is debatable...and grant it, you do need to have the set up for this..but, I've heard some vinyl played over some even moderate tube amps though horn speakers...vs same set up of a normal cd player...and IMHO the vinyl sounded more real. I know it is definitely a personal taste thing...but, there are many out there with that taste.

To me, it kinda makes sense...sound is inheritly analog...so, it makes sense to record/re-play it in as analog manner as possible. That being said, I've heard some CD players with special DACs/tube outputs, etc, that can give the aforementioned vinyl setups a real run for their money.

Anyway, this has been as much a 'religious war' in the audio world as between OSes in the computer world. Right now...I'm using CD's (or those I ripped to flac on my media computer) through a very nice, inexpensive tube amp SE 84C and Klipschorns

It is a personal thing for sure..what sounds best to one, isn't going to be the same for another...but, I do say that newer isn't always better. I think some times, they get it right the first time...

:-)

I've got one from Decware I started with the SE84C...SET amp. Great, but, you gotta have very efficient speakers...I think I'll bridge this, for my center channel, and go with the mixed SET/Push Pull amp hybrid thing they've come out with..the Torii....That should give me the sound and punch I need...I've lost a tad of hearing over the years listening to loud distored music in the past...

What tube gear do ya'll have?

The numbers vs. perception issue has been driving the 'audiophile' press and engineers batty since the first triode was born. It has always been recognized that differences in how something sounds can't always be reconciled on the bench with numbers and test gear. Slew (intermod) distortion wasn't recognized till the 50's. I wonder how many more items we haven't discovered yet.

Audio is *NOT* limited to 22.5 khz like some wags right here on /. say. A trumpet *will* go clear past 50 khz on the harmonics, a cymbal crash will clear 100k.

Our measly, pathetic hearing organs cannot 'hear' this, but your body acts as a huge sound collector -- you *feel* it. If it isn't there, or worse, if it is there but distorted, funny things happen.

A well setup system will drop you in the recording room, or whatever the recording engineer created as one. Live recordings, when well done, can suck you right into a smoky bar.

A great stereo goes beyond 'clear', etc. It will give the illusion of not only soundstage width, but depth as well. With two speakers it does what it takes the muggles 5.1 surround to accomplish.

Those that pooh-pooh the audio geeks don't realize numbers don't tell the whole story. They don't even tell part of the story.

Go hear a pipe organ in a top-drawer, 100,000 dollar system. Pretty nice, I bet..

Now go hear the same organ in its natural environ. The bass will grab your chestbone and shake vigorously. Your head will tingle from all the energy past 20khz. Quite wonderful, sound is. Too bad our ears are so crappy. Moral of this one? Even the 100,000 dollar stereo falls way short of the Real Thing.

If you're happy with the Sornys, Magnetboxes and Farnasonics, fine. If not, may I suggest a trip down the AudioAsylum and get educamated. Those with basic soldering skilz and a healthy respect for triple-digit DC voltages will find that with a grand or three you can cobble together a system which will put a dent on a 10,000 audiophool-approved store-bought solution ;o)

And yes, 44 khz PCM *is* the devil incarnate. DSD and good ole analog tape are better. Really.

Some other fun thermionic links:

Ominous Valve (Funny!)

Why Hot Glass Rulez (Geeky!)

I've been down the road before. I did the hi-power solid-state (Squalid-state) with cone n' domes, I've done mass-market (Technics), I've done hot glass with horns. Hot glass (tubes, silly) and horn speakers is where its at for me. Makes brass, voices and cymbals just yummy. You can *hear* the rosin on a cello's bow. You can hear Tony Iommi's fingers scrape the strings. You can *hear* that little "click" some singers make when they part their lips.

There *is* a difference.. and as pointed out here, there's also a lot of snake oil.

Experiment. Learn. Build some shit. That way the snake-oil salesmen won't snag you.

It's fun.

i used to use a 2.1 altec lansing set, which were very good. then i bought a Zen Triode amp (http://www.decware.com/zpage1.htm) and a pair of Celestion bookshelf speakers - my god. better surround sound out of 2 speakers and a sub (home-built, 10") than with any 4.1 pc speakers i've ever heard. costs a bit more (cause it's a damn good amp), but as long as you've got a pair of good speakers (like 92db sensitivity at least), you'll be laughing :)