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They released version 3.4.2 three days ago. As I understand it they're mostly working on bug fixes for now--lord knows they need it--and removing as much Java dependence as possible.

So how much of this is crap do you actually believe and how much did you pull out of your ass?

Slow? When is the last time you USED it? I used OO.o calc 2 years ago to do 3d rendering (via the graphs) using 1000x1000 point and transformation matrices. And I never ONCE found it slow. Not in rendering (believe me, there was some HEAVY math in there) nor scrolling (with a logitech fast-scroll mouse it didn't even lag behind at full speed). This "OO.o if slow" BS is just that, BS. The only remotely slow part about it is startup (2-3 seconds on my laptop), but if you turned off Window's "start half of office at logon before even launching the app", you would see the same thing there.

Codebase: Sure it has a large code base, I'd be worried if it DIDN'T. OO.o handles spreadsheets, presentation animations, MANY MANY document formats, database manipulation, etc. Tell me, when's the last time you saw MS Office's codebase for comparison? Oh yeah, that's right...

Sun/Novel: Sure almost all the *money* came from Sun/Novel, but did you bother to check where the CODING came from?!? The fact that LibreOffice has pushed more updates out with more bugfixes in the last 2 months than they did in the last YEAR before splitting off should tell you something. Also take a look at their blog which has a meaningful post every 2-3 days.

It's behind? Really? The only area where LibreOffice is "behind" MS Office is dumping a familiar, easy to use interface for a convoluted disaster of a non-menued system that had people jumping ship when MS did it. Tell me, who was the first (between OO.o and MS Office) to introduce collaborative editing on spreadsheets, or a presentation mode for slideshows? How about a PROPER inheritance oriented class system for document formatting? Yeah keep telling yourself MS is ahead in Office breakthroughs while you admire the technologic breakthroughs of the Zune!

I believe its more of a "Who Cares?" issue than anything else.

For a piece of software that has been around for 11.5 years and who's own website shows a 3% decrease in home usage in January 2010 (I guess given the fork turmoil ((that makes business run as fast as they can in the other direction)) they don't feel necessary to update their usage statistics) and the ">21 % in Poland,Czech Rep,Germany" that also hasn't been updated since January of 2010 PLUS there is a thing that isn't from some Slashdot clone or one of ComputerWorld or ZDNet's fanboy's or some random blogger with a sensationalist headline and no facts to back it up when it comes to LibreOffice.

LibreOffice's Market? It Sucks. Paper airplane designs? Icons to use? I mean 10th anniversary? Maybe for OpenOffice, not for LibreOffice.

As I've said before they combined total of all of our Microsoft site licenses and CAL's spread out over the life time of the software plus the Gold/G.I. Joe level of support I get from the vendor I purchase them from doesn't come close to equaling what we spend in one year on our lease+toilet paper+cups+coffee+employee reimbursements for travel expenses+continuing education that those employees went on to better themselves that we pay for+the special tape I buy to make sure the rugs at the entrance doors don't bunch up and someone trips+plates, bowls, plastic forks/spoons/knives+the safety committee budget,the fun committee budget,the alarm company monitoring charges plus the fee's we pay when someone forgets their code and sets the alarm off and police show up+overtime+a ton of things that a lot of you have no clue about! How is Linux or OpenOffice going to help me with any of that? Who am I going to call when someone has a question I can't answer? "Hello Document Foundation, my user.....".

I pay $600 for a name brand PC with Windows 7 Pro, Office 2010, and 3 years of 2/4 hour on-site service (2 for hardware, 4 for software) and before I ever even order them they send me one which I setup with our image then send back which they then load on all the other PC's, test them, and ship them over-night to me.

Oh yeah, I don't think any of that is going to FORK anytime soon.

I believe its more of a "Who Cares?" issue than anything else.

For a piece of software that has been around for 11.5 years and who's own website shows a 3% decrease in home usage in January 2010 (I guess given the fork turmoil ((that makes business run as fast as they can in the other direction)) they don't feel necessary to update their usage statistics) and the ">21 % in Poland,Czech Rep,Germany" that also hasn't been updated since January of 2010 PLUS there is a thing that isn't from some Slashdot clone or one of ComputerWorld or ZDNet's fanboy's or some random blogger with a sensationalist headline and no facts to back it up when it comes to LibreOffice.

LibreOffice's Market? It Sucks. Paper airplane designs? Icons to use? I mean 10th anniversary? Maybe for OpenOffice, not for LibreOffice.

As I've said before they combined total of all of our Microsoft site licenses and CAL's spread out over the life time of the software plus the Gold/G.I. Joe level of support I get from the vendor I purchase them from doesn't come close to equaling what we spend in one year on our lease+toilet paper+cups+coffee+employee reimbursements for travel expenses+continuing education that those employees went on to better themselves that we pay for+the special tape I buy to make sure the rugs at the entrance doors don't bunch up and someone trips+plates, bowls, plastic forks/spoons/knives+the safety committee budget,the fun committee budget,the alarm company monitoring charges plus the fee's we pay when someone forgets their code and sets the alarm off and police show up+overtime+a ton of things that a lot of you have no clue about! How is Linux or OpenOffice going to help me with any of that? Who am I going to call when someone has a question I can't answer? "Hello Document Foundation, my user.....".

I pay $600 for a name brand PC with Windows 7 Pro, Office 2010, and 3 years of 2/4 hour on-site service (2 for hardware, 4 for software) and before I ever even order them they send me one which I setup with our image then send back which they then load on all the other PC's, test them, and ship them over-night to me.

Oh yeah, I don't think any of that is going to FORK anytime soon.

I believe its more of a "Who Cares?" issue than anything else.

For a piece of software that has been around for 11.5 years and who's own website shows a 3% decrease in home usage in January 2010 (I guess given the fork turmoil ((that makes business run as fast as they can in the other direction)) they don't feel necessary to update their usage statistics) and the ">21 % in Poland,Czech Rep,Germany" that also hasn't been updated since January of 2010 PLUS there is a thing that isn't from some Slashdot clone or one of ComputerWorld or ZDNet's fanboy's or some random blogger with a sensationalist headline and no facts to back it up when it comes to LibreOffice.

LibreOffice's Market? It Sucks. Paper airplane designs? Icons to use? I mean 10th anniversary? Maybe for OpenOffice, not for LibreOffice.

As I've said before they combined total of all of our Microsoft site licenses and CAL's spread out over the life time of the software plus the Gold/G.I. Joe level of support I get from the vendor I purchase them from doesn't come close to equaling what we spend in one year on our lease+toilet paper+cups+coffee+employee reimbursements for travel expenses+continuing education that those employees went on to better themselves that we pay for+the special tape I buy to make sure the rugs at the entrance doors don't bunch up and someone trips+plates, bowls, plastic forks/spoons/knives+the safety committee budget,the fun committee budget,the alarm company monitoring charges plus the fee's we pay when someone forgets their code and sets the alarm off and police show up+overtime+a ton of things that a lot of you have no clue about! How is Linux or OpenOffice going to help me with any of that? Who am I going to call when someone has a question I can't answer? "Hello Document Foundation, my user.....".

I pay $600 for a name brand PC with Windows 7 Pro, Office 2010, and 3 years of 2/4 hour on-site service (2 for hardware, 4 for software) and before I ever even order them they send me one which I setup with our image then send back which they then load on all the other PC's, test them, and ship them over-night to me.

Oh yeah, I don't think any of that is going to FORK anytime soon.

I suspect rather that Oracle didn't have the ability, willingness, or the guts to revise the source code licensing/assignment restrictions put in place by Sun Microsystems. And maybe they would have liked to, but could not legally resolve the assignments with a change to a more open license.

No. Contributors to OO.org had to assign their copyright to Sun/Oracle, EXPRESSLY SO THEY COULD EASILY change the source code license at will...

LibreOffice does not require any copyright assignment, so if they want to switch licenses they better do it before it becomes infeasible to request permission from all the copyright holding contributors. FTFAQ:

Q: What difference will The Document Foundation make to developers?

A: The Document Foundation sets out deliberately to be as developer friendly as possible. We do not demand that contributors share their copyright with us. People will gain status in our community based on peer evaluation of their contributions - not by who their employer is.

Source code can only flow one way, from OO.org to LibreOffice / Document foundation, not vise versa. OO.org has a disadvantage: Their competitor (LO) can gobble up their codebase, but OO.org can not -- Well, depending on if you can get the developer to assign copyright. (Haven't cared to read the new Apache license for OO.org, but if it still requires assignment, they're toast).

To be fair, one of the things the Libreoffice peeps have done is started going to town on the "this is awful/redundant code, can you help us rewrite it" thing, complete with one of the nicest ideas I've seen, http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks

Basically, a list of stuff that needs doing, but they don't necessarily have time for, but is easy enough that a beginner/lower level coder can do the grunt work. Eases people into working with a big project.

You mean like at the top of this page?
http://challenge.documentfoundation.org/donate/

Yes. Have overlooked the link.

Whaddaya mean? The first article links to http://challenge.documentfoundation.org/ . At least when I clicked thru.

http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/02/16/libreoffice-community-starts-50000-euro-challenge-for-setting-up-its-foundation/

They've added some of the debt to their Easy Hacks page ; I had a crack at some of the more mundane tasks like removing defunct macros with shell scripts.

Thanks for the link! I have been meaning to get involved into Open Source in my spare time, this looks like a good way to make an initial start without risking getting in over my head. One of the first one seems to be related to removing unnececary comments, which is probably what I would start doing anyway if I were to get involved in something (I think code is easier to develop if it is documented well, mainly through comments)

They've added some of the debt to their Easy Hacks page ; I had a crack at some of the more mundane tasks like removing defunct macros with shell scripts.

LibreOffice probably needs to think about a revenue stream for the future.

They have a funding drive going on right now.

They have a lot of people on their side, but the real issue will be paying down the technical debt in the codebase. It really needs an overhaul.

I wonder how GO-oo and LibreOffice compare?

From what I understand, one of the first things LibreOffice did after forking was import the GO-oo patch-set. I believe GO-oo and BrOffice intend to merge into LibreOffice and combine their efforts. I am not affiliated with any of the projects though, so some of my information could be incorrect or out of date.

---Alex

Article links to some blog with copy/pasted content. Here are the right links:
- Official announcement
- Download

(Posting anonymously to avoid karma whoring allegations)

Now that they don't have to worry so much about maintaining compatibility with Sun/Oracle's version (like they did with the go-oo fork), they can fix a lot of old cruft. If you want to get involved, there is a list of easy hacks that should provide a starting point for people who want to contribute.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Easy_Hacks

Get LibreOffice for free, and add Scribus as a Publisher replacement.

Yup. Perhaps Oracle is somewhat penitent and trying to regain trust with the Open Source Community. The sad part is we can't be 100% (or even 50%) sure their intentions are good. That would be nice though!

Addendum for those who don't know: LibreOffice is the new OpenOffice.

So while I agree that ATM OO.o and LibreOffice is virtually the same, have they said ANYTHING about MS Office compatibility on their roadmap?

Yes, see the latest announcement. It specifically mentions VBA macro support, which is even dirtier than just supporting MS formats. At the same time the announcement mentions reducing Java dependency which is probably a good thing. Java probably wasn't integrated by Sun to fulfill a real need, but as a Java marketing method.

Currently Libre Office may still be dependent on Java, but it is a specific goal to reduce Java dependence in the future. I consider that a good thing and a realistic approach.

Seeing as libreoffice is just a fork of openoffice (they're probably almost identical in code right now), you can probably rely on it just as much as openoffice now, and possibly even more in the future.

The LibreOffice website is itself a work in progress.

There are no links to external resources of any kind: Templates, tutorials, clip art and so on.

Office.com does this sort of thing very, very well - and I don't think the geek has ever quite understood the importance of getting this right.

"This beta release is not intended for production use!"

The Windows build is an International build - you can choose the user interface language that is suitable for you, but the help is always English. The Linux and MacOSX builds are English builds with the possibility to install language packs. LibreOffice Productivity Suite"

This is a good time to support the project. They accept donations in time and money. This is a link to the contributions page: http://www.documentfoundation.org/contribution/

The site is very friendly for people interested in assisting in developing LibreOffice. They even have a list of tasks that starting out contributors can do (such as remove useless comments or commented out code blocks.)

A lot of the listed hacks feel like they are trying to clean house so they can regain a good grasp on the project. Looks like LibreOffice is going to get some needed refactoring.

Just to correct you here as well, Oracle have not dumped OpenOffice.org.

Check the copyright notice on http://www.openoffice.org/

The project does not need to be adopted. There are a number of companies contributing to what is considered the major legitimate fork of OpenOffice called LibreOffice: http://www.documentfoundation.org/

Which is probably fine if you're using OSX. Otherwise, I think most folks these days are using Go oo which is I guess in the process of merging with Libreoffice.

Speed is nice, but really what has in the past hurt OO.org and such the most is the less than perfect interoperability with MS Office. If you're going to use a minority office suite then you damn well better be able to interoperate.

There are perfectly fine versions of both LibreOffice and indeed OpenOffice.org for the Mac, and many people haven't used NeoOffice in an age (and I don't think it depends on Java anymore anyway). Whatever the consequences of Jobs ditching Java might be (and I assert they are significant) they don't include a threat to open source office productivity apps.

From the FAQ:

Q: What does this announcement mean to other derivatives of OpenOffice.org?

A: We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

In the spirit of the /. community, I haven't had time to read all the posts but that wont stop me from opining. My family has used Openoffice for years since I simply can't afford M$ Office (4 licenses, and piracy would be "unethical"). I needed something file compatibel with M$ for work and the kids' school (talk about "vendor lock-in"). I just dumped Openoffice 3.2 instead of upgrading. Long live Libreoffice! I just installed LibreOffice 3.3.0 Beta2 (3.2.99 from git) via AlienBOB's build (Thanks buddy!) for Slackware64 13.1. It is faster, leaner, cleaner, and opens M$ Office docs that OO.o was having issues with (my employer still uses M$ everywhere). I am impressed. So instead of whining and gabbing inanely about the merits of, or lack thereof, of M$, Oracle or http://www.documentfoundation.org/, give it a test drive. Vote for the software project that JUST WORKS by using it!

The icon design might change on your desktop a little

This is the LO icon on my desktop. Matter of seconds. Wouldn't that be the first thing to change in a fork? OK, granted, they were still hoping for Oracle to hop on the lifeboat or give them the trademark. But why does the installer open an Oracle web page? Why is the word Oracle still all over the UI? It's very confusing to outsiders, and it could lead to people "upgrading" to OracleOffice by mistake.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Next_Decade_Manifesto

I predict within six months "OpenOffice" will be dead and "LibreOffice" (or similar community-owned fork) will have supplanted it.

LibreOffice is in beta. LibreOffice is on hold.

"This beta release is not intended for production use! Be advised that the current beta might replace your OpenOffice.org installation." LibreOffice Productivity Suite

The fork does not sell a core productivity app to your boss.

It suggests to him, among many other things, the possibility of further fragmentation and more bad blood.

The "similiar community-owned fork."

Linux has a 0.85% global share of the client. iOS tops Linux. The numbers are no better when you look at a breakdown by countries and regions. Stat Counter Global Stats

If Oracle chooses, it is strongly positioned to keep OpenOffice.org dominant in the OSX and Windows markets, assuming "dominance" means anything in an environment where MS Office is so strong.

I have used Star|openoffice since it was first ported to Linux.
It used to break constantly, saving every few lines was mandatory.
I thank all free and corporate work which has gone into Openoffice
and I will now support Libreoffice as Mark Shuttleworth stated at
http://www.documentfoundation.org/supporters/
I'm sure Debian will not hesitate to jump on board although they are conspicuously absent.

Sun has years of research, inventions (IP) and acquisitions,
a cheap buy at any price, but Oracle bought at a good time.
What a good way to get rid of competing (free, libre) products,
hands up all the cynics.
The corporate side of computing always has been grotesque.

Spread the word about LibreOffice

I haven't payed much attention to LibreOffice. It is interesting to see who is on the board of the Document Foundation. Probably 50% are Germans, followed by French, Brazilian and other european people. Also interesting are the companies/foundations that support LibreOffice [1], I see names like Red Hat, Novell, the FSF of course, Oasis and some european national foundations.

I am not very much surprised about this however. Usage of Open Source software in Europe (and especially germany) is quiet high. Also FOSS is more and more used by national and academic entities in europe.

Let's see how this will end. With a Debian maintainer, Novell and Redaht backing this project, they might be on to something in the long run.

1) http://www.documentfoundation.org/supporters/

Actually they own the name, so they can kill it in name. I don't think they'll kill it as much as just let it stagnate. Of course they don't own the code, hence we'll all be switching to LibreOffice, since that's where the momentum is heading.

Summary also mentions it as being a transitional name. [...]

The OpenOffice.org trademark is owned by Oracle Corporation. Our hope is that Oracle will donate this to the Foundation, along with the other assets it holds in trust for the Community, in due course, once legal etc issues are resolved. However, we need to continue work in the meantime - hence "LibreOffice" ("free office").

From the FAQ.

Wasn't the whole point of Go-OO fork being a fork that copyright assignment was required for merging it upstream?

From their FAQ (emphasis mine):

Q: What difference will The Document Foundation make to developers?

A: The Document Foundation sets out deliberately to be as developer friendly as possible. We do not demand that contributors share their copyright with us. People will gain status in our community based on peer evaluation of their contributions - not by who their employer is.

So I'm guessing that was a Sun or Oracle requirement, probably Sun since they also had Star Office under a Commercial License so they probably wanted the copyright assignment so they could do Star Office, where as the Document Foundation seems to be set up so as not to have any kind of commercial offering, more like Mozilla; also from the FAQ (emphasis mine):

Q: What difference will The Document Foundation make to users of LibreOffice?

A: LibreOffice is The Document Foundation's reason for existence. We do not have and will not have a commercial product which receives preferential treatment. We only have one focus - delivering the best free office suite for our users - LibreOffice.

So it looks like that should not longer be a concern, and if that was the only reason for Go-OO then there is no longer a reason for Go-OO to remain. However, I doubt that was the only reason (don't know, just my thought).

Wasn't the whole point of Go-OO fork being a fork that copyright assignment was required for merging it upstream?

From their FAQ (emphasis mine):

Q: What difference will The Document Foundation make to developers?

A: The Document Foundation sets out deliberately to be as developer friendly as possible. We do not demand that contributors share their copyright with us. People will gain status in our community based on peer evaluation of their contributions - not by who their employer is.

So I'm guessing that was a Sun or Oracle requirement, probably Sun since they also had Star Office under a Commercial License so they probably wanted the copyright assignment so they could do Star Office, where as the Document Foundation seems to be set up so as not to have any kind of commercial offering, more like Mozilla; also from the FAQ (emphasis mine):

Q: What difference will The Document Foundation make to users of LibreOffice?

A: LibreOffice is The Document Foundation's reason for existence. We do not have and will not have a commercial product which receives preferential treatment. We only have one focus - delivering the best free office suite for our users - LibreOffice.

So it looks like that should not longer be a concern, and if that was the only reason for Go-OO then there is no longer a reason for Go-OO to remain. However, I doubt that was the only reason (don't know, just my thought).

Q: What does this announcement mean to other derivatives of OpenOffice.org?

A: We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

I haven't been able to find anything saying that they rebranded anything from anyone else other than OpenOffice.org, in fact, to quote from their Downloads page:

The LibreOffice branding and renaming is new and work in progress. You may still see old graphics, icons or websites. So please bear with us. This also applies to the BrOffice.org branding - applicable in Brazil.

So I would venture a guess that they are truly forking from - or carrying on - the OpenOffice.org codebase (since they are having issues with OO.org branding, not GoOOo branding), but they have simply incorporated the changes from the Go-OOo team as well. I can udnerstand why the Go-OOo team might not be too happy since it effectively devalues their own fork.

Q: What does this announcement mean to other derivatives of OpenOffice.org?

A: We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

I haven't been able to find anything saying that they rebranded anything from anyone else other than OpenOffice.org, in fact, to quote from their Downloads page:

The LibreOffice branding and renaming is new and work in progress. You may still see old graphics, icons or websites. So please bear with us. This also applies to the BrOffice.org branding - applicable in Brazil.

So I would venture a guess that they are truly forking from - or carrying on - the OpenOffice.org codebase (since they are having issues with OO.org branding, not GoOOo branding), but they have simply incorporated the changes from the Go-OOo team as well. I can udnerstand why the Go-OOo team might not be too happy since it effectively devalues their own fork.

I've been using the Go-OO version for a long time, myself... I think a lot of distros use that as the default base... would be nice to just see the Go-OO group take the lead on this, and bring it back under one roof, so to speak.

From the website:

Q: What does this announcement mean to other derivatives of OpenOffice.org?

A: We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

Actually, if you compare the Document Foundation's team with the people behind Go-oo, you will find some overlap. You're right, though, it'd be great if the new office suite had a good name (and a better website, which looks like crap right now), so I wouldn't feel silly recommending Go-oo to people.

From their FAQ ( http://www.documentfoundation.org/faq/ ):

Q: What does this announcement mean to other derivatives of OpenOffice.org?

A: We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

If you read the developer's FAQ page you see that the go-oo patches will be merged with LibreOffice.

The go-oo merge has already been confirmed:

We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately

As far as I remember, one of the problems OpenOffice always had was that most of the developers were paid developers inside Sun who worked on OpenOffice full-time. I thought the code was kind of a mess and hard to decipher for anyone outside, so the project always fought for more volunteers, but could not get many. Has this changed?

It has been hard for anyone "outside" to contribute a long time, but for other reasons. Great patches have long been rejected upstream for no reason. If you look at http://www.documentfoundation.org/faq/ you see that "We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit. ". This is a big and very important change of attitude. We can at minimum expect that all the currently available patches who are available but have been ignored by "OpenOffice.org" will be added to LibreOffice, and I hope and suspect more developers will contribute now that they can.

From the FAQ:

Q: What does this announcement mean to other derivatives of OpenOffice.org?

A: We want The Document Foundation to be open to code contributions from as many people as possible. We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.