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https://ewontfix.com/14/ is a good article which goes into detail about why systemd is a bad architecture.

systemd is broken by design, and despite offering highly enticing improvements over legacy init systems, it also brings major regressions in terms of many of the areas Linux is expected to excel: security, stability, and not having to reboot to upgrade your system.

Don't be dense.

where init really was a bug ridden piece of garbage

I don't see how a program whose main purpose is to reap zombie processes and can be implemented in under 20 lines of code can elicit such a strong judgement.

Perhaps you're talking about something else than init(8)?

Examples of systemd breaking the kernel include the "debug" logging option, and the inevitable failures of such a complex weave of components killing PID 1.

              https://bugs.freedesktop.org/s...
              http://ewontfix.com/14/

Unfortunately, "running syslogd in parallel" doesn't work well as new daemons or services are compiled for one or the other. And I'm afraid the code to integrate with systemd logging is a tar-baby: it becomes very difficult, very quickly, to maintain separate logging, but the logging is not portable to UNIX based operating systems. And that change is breaking portability for new projects even as I write. If you're willing, take a good look at the latest httpd source code to see what's happening to logging there.

And yes, systemd is trying to replace "su". See the comments by systemd's core author, Leonart Pottering, at:

              https://github.com/systemd/sys...

It's particularly amusing in those comments that Lennart Potteroing thinks that Linux is UNIX. UNIX is trademarked, licensed, and applies only to systems that follow various POSIX standards, and there's a fascinating history of lawsuits about this involving the SCO Group, which tried to claim that Linux was a UNIX descendant. Old material on this is at:

              https://www.groklaw.net/

I can understand why hearing these issues voiced again could be tiresome, and not all concerned developers are well informed. But rejecting all concerns as being "information from trolls" ignores the very real and often unnecessary problems systemd is creating.

In journald.conf set Storage=none and log remotely.

So what happens when you also log locally?

The system has more easily (to a developer) hooks.

Yes, which you are required to use.

The only behavior systemd "expects" is for daemons to talk to it either via dbus or libsystemd.

http://ewontfix.com/15/

Everything else have some kind of problem attach that is just waiting for the admin to tun his back on the rack.

This: http://ewontfix.com/14/

Thanks for at least being honest.

"Because I, personally, was not consulted about this change, I'm outraged on the internet and will wage a holy war of FUD."

You do get that the FOSS community is in its very essence about consultation? That consultation and cooperation are the only fucking way this whole fucking open source thing is going to work?

Yes, people get shirty when their input is ignored. No, it is not fucking FUD when we say, 'You have no right to ignore the complaints of roughly half of everyone who actually gives a shit about this topic.' It is not FUD when people highlight at length and in detail the many, many ways that systemd's design sucks.

Maybe systemd will get better. Most software does. But until its developers grow up enough to actually argue the thing on its merits and not simply to dismiss every criticism as aversion to change, it's going to face strident opposition.

I'm in opposition of your entitlist mentality where you think the distro developers should do whatever you want them to do.

So, are you also one of the people that block the passing lane on the highway, because the sign says 55? And I'm in opposition of (stupid) knee-jerk decisions of a distro oriented more or less towards the knowledgeable crowd of users, unlike e.g. Ubuntu.

Let's have a look at the social contract (http://www.debian.org/social_contract), which was recently "upgraded":
First of all, Debian is no longer GNU/Linux. It's just "the Debian system" [1]. Debian doesn't promise to remain 100% Free software anymore, just "100% free." (Yes, yes, according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG), but these may change at a later point).
It's now "free works" instead of "free software" and new developments are to be published according to the DFSG, instead of unambiguously as free software.
They now "provide an integrated system of high-quality materials with no legal restrictions," instead of "an integrated system of high-quality, 100% free software [...]"

The choice should have been based on technical merit vs. political lobbying and that is what pisses me and many others off.
No, circular reasoning a-la we want gnome, because "think of the children/kittens/whatever", gnome wants systemd, so we want systemd shouldn't have been applied as the technical argument.
It's a shame that the init choice is being taken away from the users.

Since you've given me that systemd link, here's some more (I'll skip upstart):
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate...
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate...
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate...

Citation?

"I have decided to not write anything in this section, considering the aggressive tone I'm getting in return, which is all but fun. Anyway, the problems with Systemd have been debated a lot already, so it is useless to list them here again." (https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/openrc)

http://www.debianuserforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3031
https://groups.google.com/foru...
Everything else is a google search away.
Oh, and here's the vote, btw: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bi... (the actual vote starts at #6236) "Please decide, because not having systemd as default is a bug"

Some more arguments:
http://ewontfix.com/14/
http://boycottsystemd.org/

G2G, got more important matters to attend to.

I'm not going to whine and bitch about it because I am not a distro developer

That reads to me like: "I'm not going to oppose a government decision, because I'm not a politician."

How do you think they should have realistically approached this?

Simple, choose the UNIX way, let the systemd/gnome people create another downstream distro, and let their users have the choice.

[1] Why make the change, Debian GNU/kFreeBSD (or HURD) is basically out anyway, so why change to "Debian system", instead of a more conservative wording?

I would be interested to hear more about how the issues listed at ewontfix are incorrect. (Not sarcastic; if they're wrong, I would like to know.)

There are significant numbers of people who understand it just perfectly and have valid criticisms that are not bugs.

http://ewontfix.com/14/

The systemd team has pissed of Torvalds:
https://lwn.net/Articles/59368...

Additionally, they repeatedly deny that anyone should have a text log for any reason, dismissing criticisms as 'just hook in syslog *too* as an *optional* thing'. Basically systemd discards decades of sensibilities ecosystem to 'do it better', while throwing out the baby with the bathwater (ditching modularity and portable log data and such).

It's not just that 'if you don't like it, fix it'. People don't like the very fundamental aspects of the design that the systemd did *on purpose*.

These:
http://ewontfix.com/14/

What exactly are the bounds of SystemD?
It touches every part of the system from the kernel to the UI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Such an unbounded piece of software violates basic software engineering concepts, and the Unix tradition of tool simplicity.

a really interesting reading: http://ewontfix.com/14/

Look, you coward, systemd is written by someone who can't grock grep. I thought Debian could do no wrong too, but apparently no organization is impervious to beligerant ignorance.

http://ewontfix.com/14/ (posted elsewhere in this discussion by someone else, this is the well-organized counter-argument you claim to be willing to hear. read it then fuck off)

Here's a pretty good treatise on the shortcomings of systemd: http://ewontfix.com/14/