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Shuttleworth Says Snappy Won't Replace .deb Linux Package Files In Ubuntu 15.10
darthcamaro writes: Mark Shuttleworth, BDFL of Ubuntu is clearing the air about how Ubuntu will make use of .deb packages even in an era where it is moving to its own Snappy ('snaps') format of rapid updates. Fundamentally it's a chicken and egg issue. From the serverwatch article: "'We build Snappy out of the built deb, so we can't build Snappy unless we first build the deb,' Shuttleworth said. Going forward, Shuttleworth said that Ubuntu users will still get access to an archive of .deb packages. That said, for users of a Snappy Ubuntu-based system, the apt-get command no longer applies. However, Shuttleworth explained that on a Snappy-based system there will be a container that contains all the deb packages. 'The nice thing about Snappy is that it's completely worry-free updates,' Shuttleworth said."
The functionality will be built in to the next version of systemd.
Will Launchpad build the snaps after it builds the debs?
I don't think it was the PACKAGE that caused people to worry about an update.
Isn't that an issue with the code itself?
The great thing about .deb packages was that the OFFICIAL ones underwent a lot of testing to try to catch problems BEFORE they were deployed. NOT because they were magical .deb packages.
As a long time Linux user, I'm dumbfounded by how the Linux community has basically turned on itself over the past 5 years.
It's not Microsoft, nor SCO, nor Apple, nor any other external entity that's destroying the usefulness and practicality of Linux. It's the Linux community, as a whole, that's doing this!
Systemd is the obvious example of this. Never have we seen a piece of software so divide and devastate the Linux ecosystem. Whatever small amount of convenience it may bring for the maintainers of Linux distros is more than offset by the many problems that systemd has caused the users of these distros. It doesn't matter if, say, the Debian maintainers' jobs are made easier if Debian itself suffers from reliability problems thanks to systemd that drive the most important Debian users over to FreeBSD.
But that's not the only example. We've seen the usability of Linux on desktops and workstations devastated by awful desktop environments like GNOME 3 and Unity. This mad rush to target "normal" users has been an utter disaster. No normal users have actually decided to use Linux due to these changes, but many long time Linux users have been forced to find alternatives.
If we go back 10 years, to 2005, I never would have expected Linux to be in such dire straits, and all due to problems that the Linux community has imposed on itself. It's really unbelievable how much harm the community has done to itself as of late.
This also doesn't follow the Unix philosophy. Replaces a tool everyone is familiar with too. But I see no foaming at the mouths this time.
http://saveie6.com/
Republican cows?
if it comes with a decent package build system (like Koji is for RPM), then it does have a positive then. If not, then I don't see how this is any better than what we we already have.
One of the challenges around all these package options is the lack of an easy to setup package build system. If I could build my software in deb, rpm, snappy, etc, without having to setup a tedious and custom build system for each, then maybe we wouldn't be worried about another one coming.
Fundamentally it's a chicken and egg issue. GNG is Not GNU, but GNG is not GNG.
https://www.google.com/search?...
'The nice thing about GNG is that it's completely GNUtard-free, GNG said.
"completely worry-free updates"
Those are very scary words when ever someone utters them because they seem to fail to comprehend the fact that testing is not perfect. I have real work to do. When they F*sk my system with an update that fails and it loses my data or prevents me from working, just once, it can be a huge disaster for me. Multiply that times all the users. Not an issue for the developer. Completely worry-free updates. Not.
That doesn’t make any sense. Republicans eat a lot of cow. A lot. As has been proven, people that eat meat are less intelligent and lack empathy. That describes Republicans.
this is made of 100% fuck
hey shuttleworth, stop fixing things that ain't broke
i'm just sayin'
You're why we don't have flying cars yet.
"The nice thing about Snappy is that it's completely worry-free updates"
Any time anyone says something is "completely worry-free", that's your cue to worry. Ask me how I know.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
sooner or later.
now why would someone let guys who want to do that make their bootup system? it will have it's own kernel soon enough too and it's going to be forking time again for all the distros
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I swear to god, there are times when I think that Pottering is a secret, deep-cover plant by Microsoft whose job is to disrupt the Linux community, fragment the OS by introducing shit like systemd, and generally make a hash of the Linux ecosystem.
This whole systemd fiasco has caused a boatload of infighting, dissension among what should be cooperative members and teams, and it makes the process of administering Linux systems that much harder. I'm no dev guru or Linux wizard, but even I know that swallowing stderr messages and mucking with long-time, well-established syslog formats is a Bad Thing.
If he's not a secret, deep-cover plant owned and directed by Microsoft, he should be. Microsoft should be paying him handsomely for all the trouble he's caused.
* No, I don't think he's really a Microsoft operative, but damn...he may as well be.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
You're why we don't have flying cars yet.
Oh don't be so dramatic. The real reason Linux is holding up flying cars is shitty drivers.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
We don't have flying cars because company developing them failed to make them work on a demo and lost its funding.
You're why we don't have flying cars yet.
Oh don't be so dramatic. The real reason Linux is holding up flying cars is shitty drivers.
If they would just share the API so we didn't need a flying car binary blob...
from my cold, dead hands....
no apt? i'd rather use windows 10 ** than linux without apt.
__
** replace 10 with your own most hated version. for me it's 10 (followed by 8.x, me)
Has anyone else noticed the strong smell of Kool-Aid around here?
I like what Shuttleworth is doing. He's trying to make Ubuntu a respectable linux distribution although he's going to piss off some old school purists. But then again the old schoolers have plenty of options in a linux world. This is not like Apple or Microsoft here, this is linux and if you don't like one path just take another.
Like upstart.
we're only thrilled to hear, what poettering will introduce. Because redhat will adapt it and then everyone starts using it, because if its poetteringware, it's quasi standard, isn't it?
I don't know why someone modded parent to -1. It's just another word for chicken.
Don't choke on it.
Having discovered that the seatbelts of the last Uber he rode in did not match his gerbil's eye color, Leonart Pottering will be announcing the new "flying car" module for systemd next week.
Picking a route will involving leaving a dotted line of your own entrails to the destination, but hey, you can "compile without that feature" by offering up your firstborn to the configuration goddess at next week's IRC planning meeting and virgin sacrifice. I understand the entire Gnome userbase is drawing lots to see which of them will get screwed this week.
No where did I say or imply anything was an abomination. I said that the arguments typically presented were weak and unreasonable. Much the way that your argument that I must make effort to understand the need for change is backwards. Those desiring the change are the ones that need to explain why the change is needed/desirable in the first place. But rather than justify a change that many people say is unnecessary, personal attacks and insinuations are made.
The ridiculously common command line that you wrote above fails on many/most distros that have chosen systemd as a default. These systems have no syslog at all. Installing syslog on such a system doesn't log systems messages unless you reroute all of them away form systemd/journalctl. But, do carry on insinuating that my log usage or viewing habits are inferior or inadequate because they use the preferred methods of the last 20+ years, rather than your preferred and totally new method. While we're at it, how about the fact that the log file itself is now formatted differently and is binary encoded rather than text. No, that doesn't break anything, 'except old people stuff'.
As for dependencies, log dependencies are broken, despite your childish refrain of veiled insults. Startup scripts are broken. and the list of broken projects/packages/scripts goes on and on.
These facts aside, you're still arguing with insults. You're not presenting arguments that demonstrate any actual value of the new system/way. All you've said, like I claimed in the GP, is that my 'unwillingness to accept the new way is because I'm inadequate in my use of Linux and that real users like yourself need all this old shit gone because it's old'.
I still say that this is not a valid or logical reason. It is far more similar to an emotional excuse based, ironically to your accusations, on inexperience. Time will tell. But, I've seen the change for the sake of change bandwagon go over a cliff so many times that I can't help but laugh.