Slashdot Mirror

... sorry but this shit just ain't acceptable.

Its another of a long and growing list of government abuses that are easily amounting to be worse than the terrorism its supposed to be protecting us from.

"Those who sacrifice freedom in exchange for security, will have neither."

who said that?

From wikiquotes:

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

• The first variant was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly. See Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin. [1]
• The second variant was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) This book was published by Franklin; its author was Richard Jackson, but Franklin did claim responsibility for some small excerpts.[2]
• A variant by Franklin: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." (Poor Richard's Almanack, 1738)
• This saying has appeared in many paraphrases:
  • "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
    "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
    "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
    "If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
    "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
    "Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither."

• Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
  • This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thoe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchae a little Temporary Safety, deerve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
  • Many paraphrased variants derived from this saying have arisen and have usually been incorrectly attributed to Franklin:
    • "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
      "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
      "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
      "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."
      "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
      "If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both."
      "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
      "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
      "Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither."

Actually, the Motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania is available here. It looks pretty obviously to be just a one-liner. This is supposed to be an except from

Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

If this is what you refer to, I can't seem to find it online, but the crux of the matter seems to be relating to whether Colonists should be allowed to arm themselves or depend on the government for protection. It is hard to fit your quote into this context. Perhaps you are joking?

I agree with your point, and also the prior references to Schneier (presume there are also some to Ben Franklin's quote ).
But as a nerdy point of fact, handling alternate name spellings and establishing identity based on imprecise data is a well established technology (e.g. weightings for different attributes, key transpositions caused by typos, etc,etc) typically for client / patient databases fed from disparate systems.

Never thought about the civil liberty ramifications till now. I guess the correct course of action for myself is to move out of the low paid health care industry and get a taste of that sweet,sweet Homeland security pork.

"Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY."

and the strange form of 's' that was being used that slashdots forum can't display. Franklin had something far more appropriate to say on matters such as these.

and this site has a scan of the ORIGINAL section of the document.

Except that in a letter to David Hume Franklin denies he wrote that and researchers now think it was a fellow diplomat named Richard Jackson who said that.

So you could say "Those who are pedantic with pseudo-quotes deserve a slap in the head with a wet fish - including me"

So mod me - "+1 - slap with wet fish"

"Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY."

and the strange form of 's' that was being used that slashdots forum can't display. Franklin had something far more appropriate to say on matters such as these.

and this site has a scan of the ORIGINAL section of the document.

Except that in a letter to David Hume Franklin denies he wrote that and researchers now think it was a fellow diplomat named Richard Jackson who said that.

So you could say "Those who are pedantic with pseudo-quotes deserve a slap in the head with a wet fish - including me"

So mod me - "+1 - slap with wet fish"

The quote you are using can not be directly attributed to Ben Franklin - but is instead a paraphrasing from a book he edited. It seems that one of the verified and original qoutes is "Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARAY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY." {I used the caps in the same positions as shown in the original document} Information on this quote can be found at http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader $605

Where are all the liberal slashdotters who only know one quote (which they misquote, and most likely misattribute), namely,
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
It was the Motto printed on the front of a propaganda book Ben Franklin published, but did not write. (Story, and picture here: http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader $605)

The purpose of the book was to convince the king to give the colonists money to buy guns for the Indian tribes allied with them. (The French were arming the Indian tribes allied to them, the bastards ;-)

This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document, which uses an archaic form of "s": "Thofe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchafe a little Temporary Safety, deferve neither Liberty nor Safety." Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson is the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."

Actually this quote is not by Benjamin Franklin.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin Wiki is your friend.

Also a scan of the original text can be seen http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader $605

The actual quote by B.J. is ""Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.""

No, Rehnquist was just doing his job. Rehnquist was a fantastic judge, you'll notice Reagan and Bush appointed well balanced judges, Clinton is the one who appointed extremist judges to the federal bench, like the femenist Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Colleen Kollar-Kotelly, both femenists. Look, guy; you can't know everything by reading a wikipedia document, and you make yourself look like a moron when you think you know everything after a few minutes of scanning.

By the way, that quote you cite is not by Ben Franklin. Let me guess, you live in San Francisco and you see the bumper stickers everywhere. Just keep floating down this river of propoganda, don't ever even try to think for yourself. God damn you self-obsessed liberals.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Ben Franklin

Agh that's the worst rewording of the quote I have ever seen. Not blaming you, just thought you'd like the real one:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader $605

It's obvious you need those civics classes as much as anyone else. The actual quote is: Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

There seems to be disagreements as to exactly what Benjamin Frankiln said. This website says:

To be clear, since it has been a while since I have written on this matter, security and liberty are both highly desirable goals for which we strive. They are, unfortunately, conflicting. Ben Franklin's dictum, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" is oft misquoted as an absolute ("They who would give up liberty for security, deserve neither liberty or security"); Franklin was, alas, not that simpleminded.

This one says basically what you've got but is more compleat:

As Benjamin Franklin once wrote, those who would give up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security. Where our security and liberty is concerned, we must remain constantly vigilant and uncompromisingly devoted. - Representative Ron Paul, July 13, 1998 [WorldNetDaily]

And this one says:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Although worded differently they all mean basically the same thing, if you give up essential liberty for temporary safety you will neither get nor deserve either.

It's obvious you need those civics classes as much as anyone else. The actual quote is: Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Franklin Quoted by Minsky

Actually, its more along the lines of...

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader $605

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

-- Benjamin Franklin (allegedly)

    No realistic American can expect from a dictator's peace international generosity, or return of true independence, or world disarmament, or freedom of expression, or freedom of religion-- or even good business. Such a peace would bring no security for us or for our neighbors. Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither LIBERTY nor SAFETY

Read the original BF quote and you'll see you are very liberally applying it's meaning. When you add "essential" and "temporary" back in the quote it makes sense and doesn't apply.

The true quote

Actually, I didn't say it came after the bill of rights, I said it's about the second amendment ie, about the right to bear arms. Oh and by the way, you've got the original quote Wrong