Domain: gnome.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to gnome.org.
Comments · 3,430
-
Re:Typical Douchebags out in force
There is extension "Activities configurator" which gives you configuration options for the hot corner.
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/358/activities-configurator/
-
Re:But have they unwound the craziness?
How about the removal of the tree sidebar and condensed view from Nautilus? The standard gnome design mantra seems to be "this isn't pretty enough --- kill it with fire" Removing features is not minimalist design, its regression.
RIght now Gnome is hemorrhaging users so fast even Blackberry is starting to look impressed.
-
Re:obligatory comments
Users are even expected to open a web browser and navigated to https://extensions.gnome.org/local/ to view installed extensions. Seriously. WTF.
This surprised me. I had no idea this resource existed, and that is a bad way to distribute UI extensions, even if it was well-publicized.
-
Re:But have they unwound the craziness?
Sorry for calling you a troll. There's just a lot of noise in this thread from GNOME3 haters and a total lack of specifics. It seems like most people have decided they hate GNOME3 and not much can change their mind. About removing functionality from the core for people to re-add as extensions: I have mixed feelings about that myself. That aside most of what you're looking for is definitely available as extensions if you do decide to try GNOME again:
not having a normal task bar down the bottom
Looks like Frippery Bottom Panel would do the trick.
not having a normal menu at the top
Axe menu looks awesome and I actually use it myself. There's also Frippery menu which looks more minimalist.
not having a decent range of applets to add to the top bar (which I can't put things on anyway, so I guess there's no point having applets if you've got nowhere to put them)
Yeah. Agreed there, but it's getting better. It's just that instead of applets they're extensions now, and they're not installed by default.
Nautilus having found new ways to strip out features where previously I thought they had hit rock bottom
Are you referring to the double-pane thing that they borrowed from mc that they recently removed?
-
Re:But have they unwound the craziness?
Sorry for calling you a troll. There's just a lot of noise in this thread from GNOME3 haters and a total lack of specifics. It seems like most people have decided they hate GNOME3 and not much can change their mind. About removing functionality from the core for people to re-add as extensions: I have mixed feelings about that myself. That aside most of what you're looking for is definitely available as extensions if you do decide to try GNOME again:
not having a normal task bar down the bottom
Looks like Frippery Bottom Panel would do the trick.
not having a normal menu at the top
Axe menu looks awesome and I actually use it myself. There's also Frippery menu which looks more minimalist.
not having a decent range of applets to add to the top bar (which I can't put things on anyway, so I guess there's no point having applets if you've got nowhere to put them)
Yeah. Agreed there, but it's getting better. It's just that instead of applets they're extensions now, and they're not installed by default.
Nautilus having found new ways to strip out features where previously I thought they had hit rock bottom
Are you referring to the double-pane thing that they borrowed from mc that they recently removed?
-
Re:But have they unwound the craziness?
Sorry for calling you a troll. There's just a lot of noise in this thread from GNOME3 haters and a total lack of specifics. It seems like most people have decided they hate GNOME3 and not much can change their mind. About removing functionality from the core for people to re-add as extensions: I have mixed feelings about that myself. That aside most of what you're looking for is definitely available as extensions if you do decide to try GNOME again:
not having a normal task bar down the bottom
Looks like Frippery Bottom Panel would do the trick.
not having a normal menu at the top
Axe menu looks awesome and I actually use it myself. There's also Frippery menu which looks more minimalist.
not having a decent range of applets to add to the top bar (which I can't put things on anyway, so I guess there's no point having applets if you've got nowhere to put them)
Yeah. Agreed there, but it's getting better. It's just that instead of applets they're extensions now, and they're not installed by default.
Nautilus having found new ways to strip out features where previously I thought they had hit rock bottom
Are you referring to the double-pane thing that they borrowed from mc that they recently removed?
-
Re:Could we hear from someone who has used it?
I haven't used 3.6 yet, but I find 3.4 to be relatively friendly for dev work, especially with a couple extensions and a couple trips to gnome-tweak-tool. One of the nice parts is that it works really well without having to use a mouse very much. They adopted the OSX-style alt+` to switch between windows in a single app. Also, using type-ahead find to launch or switch to apps is nice.
-
Re:Typical Douchebags out in force
There's an extension that lets you disable the top-left hot corner (actually there are a few).
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/118/no-topleft-hot-corner/
I tried it for a while but then I found it made me slower. These days if my mouse accidentally strays into the hot corner, I just quickly flick the mouse back there again and it goes back to normal (the hot corner can be used to get out of the overview as well as to get into it).
-
Re:Gnome 3 Distro?I highly recommend you read the cheat sheet available here; it provides a good overview of the interface and all of the keyboard shortcuts. Once you get used to them, launching/switching applications, etc. is ridiculously quick.
There are also a ton of extensions available that will let you tweak the shell; they're installed/managed by pointing your web browser here (kinda non-intuitive, they need to work on that).
Finally, you can configure a bunch of the typical things you'd like to be able to tweak by installing gnome-tweak-tool. Just runyum install gnome-tweak-tool
as root.
-
Re:Gnome 3 Distro?I highly recommend you read the cheat sheet available here; it provides a good overview of the interface and all of the keyboard shortcuts. Once you get used to them, launching/switching applications, etc. is ridiculously quick.
There are also a ton of extensions available that will let you tweak the shell; they're installed/managed by pointing your web browser here (kinda non-intuitive, they need to work on that).
Finally, you can configure a bunch of the typical things you'd like to be able to tweak by installing gnome-tweak-tool. Just runyum install gnome-tweak-tool
as root.
-
Re:Gnome 3 Distro?
You should also check out openSUSE, Gnome 3 is an option. http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/
-
Re:One of the nice things about open source
If you want Gnome 2, you can get it here:
ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/desktop/2.91/2.91.2/sources/Yes, building it is a pain in the butt, but you can do it.
-
Re:Call me a dinosaur...
Check out the Bitstream family, much better than Courier or Lucida anything:
http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/sources/ttf-bitstream-vera/1.10/
-
Re:I see
On Gnome 2 i.e. Ubuntu 10.04 you can not use alt-tab while dragging something, this is a fundamental design error in metacity. It's apparently fixed in Ubuntu/Fedora etc see: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135056 I don't know when it was fixed.
-
Re:Future
Well, GDK (low-level library used by GTK+) has support for HTML5, apparently: http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2011/03/15/gtk-html-backend-update/
-
Ubuntu v. openSUSE ..
Given that both have been around since at least 2004, would either of these be described as a success on the Desktop, if described a failure then why would that be also? It's also inexplicable that in that whole piece, there's no mention of the litigation issues promulgated by a convicted monopolist against Open Source. Given it took me about two hour to install and fine-tune Linux on this cobbled-together-desktop, it puzzles me how you could describe the "transaction costs" as too high. Just how high can two man-hour every half-year be? I would of course test the configuration internally before shipping my tens of thousands of machines
.. :) -
Re:Is it fixed yet?
Autohide the top panel? There's an extension for that: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/208/panel-settings/
The big thing with GNOME 3 is that a lot of the settings moved out of the core and in their place, APIs were exposed to let people tweak things as they see fit with extensions. -
Re:GNOME 3 is very easy to use
You might want to look at something like the Axe Menu extension: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/327/axe-menu/
I think there's another menu extension too, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. -
Re:GNOME 3 is very easy to use
Want to change font sizes? Get gnome-tweak-tool
Vertical space wasted? Grab two extensions:
- Maximus: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/354/maximus/
- Window Options: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/353/window-options/Extensions are probably the best kept secrets of GNOME Shell, which is sad because there are a ton of awesome extensions.
-
Re:GNOME 3 is very easy to use
Want to change font sizes? Get gnome-tweak-tool
Vertical space wasted? Grab two extensions:
- Maximus: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/354/maximus/
- Window Options: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/353/window-options/Extensions are probably the best kept secrets of GNOME Shell, which is sad because there are a ton of awesome extensions.
-
Actually really looking forward to this
I'm actually looking forward to some of the GNOME 3.6 changes. Once I went out and grabbed some extensions ( http://extensions.gnome.org/ ) to tweak things more to my liking I really started to enjoy GNOME Shell. I was kinda hoping to wander into the comments here and talk to other Shell users about what they like and don't like and what extensions they use, but instead there's just this incredible hate-fest. Other GNOME 3.x users, what extensions are you using? There's like a million and I'm totally curious if I've missed some.
My top 5:
- Calculator (lets you type equations into the search bar)
- Weather (It's just a classy weather applet)
- Window Options (puts close/min/max options in the app dropdown menu on the top panel)
- Maximus (Removes the title bar of windows when maximized. Combines well with the 'Window Options' extension)
- Blank Screen (Adds a menu option to blank the screen without locking it. Puts the monitor in power saving mode) -
Re:Nautilus? Compact? No.
How can you say that? Compact view is the best view of all systems. I've been using it for years as my default view. I always thought it was stupid on Windows to have each column the same width and use up extra space when one file has a really long name. Choice should be what it is all about.
My opinion is just that an opinion. Although if the need is to have a "Compact View" I would be requesting a better resize "Icon View" [hold down ctrl and move scroll wheel]...and that I would agree is useful.
The full post on nautilus is here http://blogs.gnome.org/mccann/2012/08/01/cross-cut/ and it does talk about the reasons for removing compact view, and I agree the explanation given is weak, without a better replacement which I still think is an improved Icon View, and this quote "The view itself was not without problems and we would rather focus on making icon and list rock." seems to support that...maybe.
-
Re:Why we can't have nice things.
The worst part is that the GNOME team never, ever learns from past mistakes. After all the negative criticism they've gotten since the launch of GNOME 3 they still pull shit like this. Seriously, I don't even know where to begin with that one. Apparently they think it's too much work to navigate a filesystem so they removed the left directory navigation pane. WHY?!! If it's there - they'll make sure to break it (or remove it) just so they can show off some bizarre "idea" about how things should work in la-la-land. If they had just ported Gnome 2 to Gtk+3 and reworked some stuff under the hood, like replacing CORBA and gconf with something sane, they'd still be the most widely used *NIX desktop. But, no - they had to reinvent Gnome 3 into some pretentious bullshit GUI they have to brainwash people into liking.
-
Nautilus? Compact? No.
Nautilus, the GNOME file browser, is also getting a major face lift with a new, more compact UI...
Actually they removed compact view. To say it's "more compact" is the opposite of what happened.
-
Re:The problem with GNOME
Here is the documentation for GObject. This is just some of the stuff you have to read up on because c doesn't have classes like every other modern language. Good luck writing abstract classes and interfaces in GObject. It's doable but you need to really know all the arcane details about the type system before you get it right. You'll need about 150 lines of boilerplate in one
.c and one .h file, maybe 100 if your code is compact. Stuff that isn't funny at all to write because you could accomplish the same thing with about 10 lines of Python or C#. It's ok if you think I'm an unskilled programmer and that is why it takes me longer to code c. That is beside the point. The point is that most programmers either don't want to program in c (like me) or can't. They are not going to contribute to gnome. -
Re:The problem with GNOME
Funny you should mention that, as the GNOME foundation actually has a (modernish) langauge that can used to write GNOME programs:
Vala.
It compiles to C with all the appropriate boilerplate for Gnome's libraries and introspection files to allow calling from python / java etc.
Shame very few of the core gnome devs want to use it though. I wrote some bindings for rhythmbox in it that would have allowed the devs to write parts of rhythmbox in Vala - but they are too invested in C and only wanted to use it for a plugin API.
I have the impression that the devs just like the "exclusive club" attitude that C programming brings. Don't know if that's true.
-
Re:What does he mean about broken APIs?
...and what's more, he claims this happened over "many years". What is he talking about? The last API-breaking change in GTK+ came with the move from GTK+ 1.2 to GTK+ 2.0 back in 2002.
-
Re:I don't get it...
I feel like gnome 3 finally hit the nail on the head for what users want and need
Some users. Not, for example, me.
And even if you are correct, it's a happy accident. The GNOME 3 team didn't do a lot of user research; for example, the removal of the minimize button happened because one developer thought about it for a while and decided that nobody really needs a minimize button. Users were not asked, they were told. Consider this quote:
In the end, I think with GNOME 3 we need to emphasize design coherency and slickness - what is different and better, and that actually is more important than being 100% sure we perfectly meet everybody's workflow.
That's stunning... "design coherency and slickness" is more important than a good workflow!
A while back, Sun Microsystems paid for a bunch of usability research on GNOME and the results were incorporated into GNOME 2.x. It might not be a coincidence that many users (like me) have a strong preference for the way GNOME 2.x works.
GNOME 3 is, from all I have heard, well-architected. The plumbing is better than the legacy plumbing inside GNOME 2. When Cinnamon gets all the little details right, it may become the desktop environment of the future. For now, I'm using MATE.
steveha
-
Re:great gnome idea!
Instead of possible recovery strategies we should have pounced on your idea 2 years ago!
Say a small group of slashdotters sit down and dream up how we want gnome3 to be and listed those features somewhere private. Then, we try to come up with the opposite of those features, and submit them like crazy to the gnome design community.
Thus, all of the "features" and "changes" we asked for would not get implemented, leaving at least some of the stuff we wanted to be "dreamed up" by the gnome designers, thinking they know what's best for us like always.
-
Re:What theory is it?
Well my point wasn't so much that the design is perfect, but rather that all the people who are screaming "change for change's sake!" are idiots. There are plenty of reasons behind the changes in Gnome Shell, and I doubt anything was changed just for "change's sake".
1. I'm not sure I agree that the benefits of the overview drop off over time. After using Gnome 3 for a few months, I can't stand having to go back to using Windows machines with taskbars. If you prefer the taskbar, you can go install the Bottom Panel extension. But if we agree that initially, Fitts's law does hold, shouldn't the overview be the initial default?
2. Tabs are nice, but they are an application-level mechanism for something that should be handled at the window manager level. Maybe you're right that the application-centric model can't replace tabs, but that in itself isn't a reason to go window-centric. Again, if you don't like it, you can install the Windows Alt Tab extension which makes it behave like Windows.
3. On my computer, the power button brings up a dialog box which lets me restart or shut down. If I don't respond in 60 seconds, it shuts down by default. If I want to suspend, I just close my laptop lid. This works perfectly for me and I suspect most if not all people.
I agree that it is a bit strange that they chose to only put suspend there, and I don't see why the full selection of shutdown options (lock screen, switch user, log out, restart, suspend, hibernate, shut down) can't be there. My guess is that they were trying to avoid the mess of a shutdown menu that Vista had. But the argument is really a storm in a teacup - the menu is a secondary method of shutting down, and the primary one is via the hardware controls that every computer has.4. I find the drag-the-window-to-the-side thing to be useful for viewing two windows side-by-side. It's great now that we have these ridiculously wide monitors. Why didn't they provide an option to turn this off? Well 1) most users shouldn't need to do this and 2) they did: dconf-editor lets you do this.
I'm not sure I agree with all of your points, but thanks for making an intelligent argument about them unlike most people here. It's a really refreshing change from "OMG CHANGE FOR CHANGES SAKE!!!!"
-
Re:What theory is it?
Well my point wasn't so much that the design is perfect, but rather that all the people who are screaming "change for change's sake!" are idiots. There are plenty of reasons behind the changes in Gnome Shell, and I doubt anything was changed just for "change's sake".
1. I'm not sure I agree that the benefits of the overview drop off over time. After using Gnome 3 for a few months, I can't stand having to go back to using Windows machines with taskbars. If you prefer the taskbar, you can go install the Bottom Panel extension. But if we agree that initially, Fitts's law does hold, shouldn't the overview be the initial default?
2. Tabs are nice, but they are an application-level mechanism for something that should be handled at the window manager level. Maybe you're right that the application-centric model can't replace tabs, but that in itself isn't a reason to go window-centric. Again, if you don't like it, you can install the Windows Alt Tab extension which makes it behave like Windows.
3. On my computer, the power button brings up a dialog box which lets me restart or shut down. If I don't respond in 60 seconds, it shuts down by default. If I want to suspend, I just close my laptop lid. This works perfectly for me and I suspect most if not all people.
I agree that it is a bit strange that they chose to only put suspend there, and I don't see why the full selection of shutdown options (lock screen, switch user, log out, restart, suspend, hibernate, shut down) can't be there. My guess is that they were trying to avoid the mess of a shutdown menu that Vista had. But the argument is really a storm in a teacup - the menu is a secondary method of shutting down, and the primary one is via the hardware controls that every computer has.4. I find the drag-the-window-to-the-side thing to be useful for viewing two windows side-by-side. It's great now that we have these ridiculously wide monitors. Why didn't they provide an option to turn this off? Well 1) most users shouldn't need to do this and 2) they did: dconf-editor lets you do this.
I'm not sure I agree with all of your points, but thanks for making an intelligent argument about them unlike most people here. It's a really refreshing change from "OMG CHANGE FOR CHANGES SAKE!!!!"
-
Re:The good thing about Linux distros
A day with Gnome3 report (tl;dr)
Here are my notes from using Gnome 3 for about 8 hours..I can't imagine anyone actually wants to read it, but I'll just include them. The summary is that it's not horrible, but there are some showstoppers for me. 1) switching between windows is just more difficult, no matter what you do. 2) there is no taskbar. 3) I need to run my GPU at full speed. I'd use it above Windows 7 because it has workspace support, and I wouldn't kill myself it I had to switch to it.
* Installation (reported)
* Login completely OK no trouble.
* Desktop geometry was correct without any config.
* Correct volume control is used! And I have a few.. that's great. And it didn't destroy my ears by setting the volume to 100 %.* I don't have my shortcuts, that's no major problem, can navigate to Desktop folder
* It's slow! The music is “lagging”! Turning the GPU to performance mode fixed that.
* Why do workspaces appear up/down not left/right?
* A bit unusual to create windows.
* I can't grab window corners to resize them! Oh dear that sucks!
* I can move windows up/down like I'm used to using Ctrl-Alt-Shift Up/Down -- and move up and down using Ctrl-Alt Up/Down.* OK I knew about the “middle click to launch new instance” from before, so I'm kind of cheating, but I can't figure out how to launch something on the current desktop. When I open something it starts a new desktop!
* Heading to Gnome 3 site for help. http://www.gnome.org/gnome-3/ OK I can launch stuff with the Windows key.. I could get used to that.. Let's see: “terminal”.. It just switches to an open terminal, damn. Terminal, and hold shift while pressing enter: same. Ctrl+enter. Oh yeah, new terminal. So this I can use, it starts a terminal on the current desktop.
* Hey I got an email notification in the bottom centre of the screen, and it's clickable. Good, but nothing to applaud.
* So back to work, time to find that file browser window. Oh there's no task bar. Bring on the Alt-tab. That worked.
* Clicking on some python scripts opens them in gvim like I configured in KDE. Well done.
* OK desktop geometry wasn't spot on, but mine is weird with a big and a small screen, and this means that it had a sensible default (aligned at top instead of bottom) and didn't take the setting from KDE. Not bad. Let's try the settings. That was brilliant and easy.
* Damn I need another workspace for writing (whereas the previous was for programming). Ok let's middle click gvim and file browser on the left menu and see where that takes us... Great two new desktops, moving some stuff around and we're good.* WHY are these 2 file browsers stuck on all workspaces, how annoying.
* I want a htop window to monitor memory, this thing is going to break down and swap.. and I'm using the mouse, how can I get a terminal window without creating a new workspace...? Great, left taskbar, right click, “new window” opens on current workspace, whereas middle click opens on new workspace.
* And now the LibreOffice window where I'm writing this is stuck on all workspaces! WHY! But it's not a bad thing.
* I kind of hope the htop window stays on all workspaces, hey it did :)
* Maybe there's a separate workspace for each screen...? Well the hotkey still moves up/do -
Re:The war with Canonical
Unfortunately it is scattered. But a good place to start is:
-
rightclick
>>> They ARE options. Try http://extensions.gnome.org./ There's even a single click on/off button for each extension to turn them on and off. >>>
Please find me an option to rightclick the mouse for a context menu. And just in case you have problems understanding: the Alt key should not be involved.
-
Re:What theory is it?
They have a page on their wiki, which explains each UI element and why it is there.
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/
Unfortunately it focuses on what they put in, and doesn't really explain much about why they removed or changed a lot of things that people are used to. Here's some of the reasoning behind the more controversial things:
Why the dock/taskbar was replaced with the overview:
The overview is much better than a taskbar or dock, when you think about it in terms of Fitts's law. Targets should be big, and the Expose-style overview provides bigger targets (window thumbnails) than either a dock or a toolbar. Also the hot corner is one of the five fastest targets that a user can hit (the four corners of the screen and the pixel below the current mouse position).
One thing that I've noticed is that users who complain about task switching don't understand how to take advantage of Fitts's law. All you need to do is learn to flick your mouse quickly into the top-left corner. Don't bother aiming, the edges of the screen will guide your mouse into the corner.Why alt-tab seems broken:
Windows uses a "window-centric" whereas Gnome Shell uses what is called an "application-centric" model.
The way Gnome Shell works is quite simple: Alt-Tab changes between applications, and Alt-` (the key above the tab) switches between windows of the same application. It's exactly how Mac OS implements it, but lots of people hate it because it breaks the habits they learned when Windows 95 came out.
If you think about it, tabbed applications (like Chrome, Firefox, and lots of Gnome apps like Terminal and Gedit) don't really need to have tabs. The tabs are just there because window-centric desktop environment doesn't provide an easy way to switch between windows of the same app. Just press Alt-` and switch between, say, different terminals, without worrying about mixing them up with web browser windows.Why there is no shutdown menu option:
Your computer has a power button, and you can just press that. It should initiate an ACPI shutdown, and it is by far the most obvious way to turn off your computer. But people disagree because years of using Windows (or one of its clones) has conditioned them into thinking that it is totally intuitive to navigate through menus and select a shutdown option instead (if you really want to do this, you can install the "alternative status menu" extension).Why they removed the maximize/minimize buttons:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-February/msg00192.html
What's important here is that they didn't remove the ability to minimize or maximize, but rather just the window manager buttons. You can still do it using other methods. In particular, most people maximize by double-clicking the title-bar anyway.You're right that the UI would make sense to people if it were explained better. I really like Gnome Shell but the biggest failing is that they didn't communicate their vision clearly, and didn't provide a smooth transition from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3. They just said "here it is, and here's a crippled fallback if you really disagree with what we did".
I hope MATE with GTK3 ends up being the transitional environment that the Gnome people should have provided. And I also hope that more users give Gnome 3 a try with an open mind, because it's a really great desktop once you get used to it!
-
Re:What theory is it?
They have a page on their wiki, which explains each UI element and why it is there.
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/
Unfortunately it focuses on what they put in, and doesn't really explain much about why they removed or changed a lot of things that people are used to. Here's some of the reasoning behind the more controversial things:
Why the dock/taskbar was replaced with the overview:
The overview is much better than a taskbar or dock, when you think about it in terms of Fitts's law. Targets should be big, and the Expose-style overview provides bigger targets (window thumbnails) than either a dock or a toolbar. Also the hot corner is one of the five fastest targets that a user can hit (the four corners of the screen and the pixel below the current mouse position).
One thing that I've noticed is that users who complain about task switching don't understand how to take advantage of Fitts's law. All you need to do is learn to flick your mouse quickly into the top-left corner. Don't bother aiming, the edges of the screen will guide your mouse into the corner.Why alt-tab seems broken:
Windows uses a "window-centric" whereas Gnome Shell uses what is called an "application-centric" model.
The way Gnome Shell works is quite simple: Alt-Tab changes between applications, and Alt-` (the key above the tab) switches between windows of the same application. It's exactly how Mac OS implements it, but lots of people hate it because it breaks the habits they learned when Windows 95 came out.
If you think about it, tabbed applications (like Chrome, Firefox, and lots of Gnome apps like Terminal and Gedit) don't really need to have tabs. The tabs are just there because window-centric desktop environment doesn't provide an easy way to switch between windows of the same app. Just press Alt-` and switch between, say, different terminals, without worrying about mixing them up with web browser windows.Why there is no shutdown menu option:
Your computer has a power button, and you can just press that. It should initiate an ACPI shutdown, and it is by far the most obvious way to turn off your computer. But people disagree because years of using Windows (or one of its clones) has conditioned them into thinking that it is totally intuitive to navigate through menus and select a shutdown option instead (if you really want to do this, you can install the "alternative status menu" extension).Why they removed the maximize/minimize buttons:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-February/msg00192.html
What's important here is that they didn't remove the ability to minimize or maximize, but rather just the window manager buttons. You can still do it using other methods. In particular, most people maximize by double-clicking the title-bar anyway.You're right that the UI would make sense to people if it were explained better. I really like Gnome Shell but the biggest failing is that they didn't communicate their vision clearly, and didn't provide a smooth transition from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3. They just said "here it is, and here's a crippled fallback if you really disagree with what we did".
I hope MATE with GTK3 ends up being the transitional environment that the Gnome people should have provided. And I also hope that more users give Gnome 3 a try with an open mind, because it's a really great desktop once you get used to it!
-
Re:What theory is it?
They have a page on their wiki, which explains each UI element and why it is there.
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/
Unfortunately it focuses on what they put in, and doesn't really explain much about why they removed or changed a lot of things that people are used to. Here's some of the reasoning behind the more controversial things:
Why the dock/taskbar was replaced with the overview:
The overview is much better than a taskbar or dock, when you think about it in terms of Fitts's law. Targets should be big, and the Expose-style overview provides bigger targets (window thumbnails) than either a dock or a toolbar. Also the hot corner is one of the five fastest targets that a user can hit (the four corners of the screen and the pixel below the current mouse position).
One thing that I've noticed is that users who complain about task switching don't understand how to take advantage of Fitts's law. All you need to do is learn to flick your mouse quickly into the top-left corner. Don't bother aiming, the edges of the screen will guide your mouse into the corner.Why alt-tab seems broken:
Windows uses a "window-centric" whereas Gnome Shell uses what is called an "application-centric" model.
The way Gnome Shell works is quite simple: Alt-Tab changes between applications, and Alt-` (the key above the tab) switches between windows of the same application. It's exactly how Mac OS implements it, but lots of people hate it because it breaks the habits they learned when Windows 95 came out.
If you think about it, tabbed applications (like Chrome, Firefox, and lots of Gnome apps like Terminal and Gedit) don't really need to have tabs. The tabs are just there because window-centric desktop environment doesn't provide an easy way to switch between windows of the same app. Just press Alt-` and switch between, say, different terminals, without worrying about mixing them up with web browser windows.Why there is no shutdown menu option:
Your computer has a power button, and you can just press that. It should initiate an ACPI shutdown, and it is by far the most obvious way to turn off your computer. But people disagree because years of using Windows (or one of its clones) has conditioned them into thinking that it is totally intuitive to navigate through menus and select a shutdown option instead (if you really want to do this, you can install the "alternative status menu" extension).Why they removed the maximize/minimize buttons:
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-shell-list/2011-February/msg00192.html
What's important here is that they didn't remove the ability to minimize or maximize, but rather just the window manager buttons. You can still do it using other methods. In particular, most people maximize by double-clicking the title-bar anyway.You're right that the UI would make sense to people if it were explained better. I really like Gnome Shell but the biggest failing is that they didn't communicate their vision clearly, and didn't provide a smooth transition from Gnome 2 to Gnome 3. They just said "here it is, and here's a crippled fallback if you really disagree with what we did".
I hope MATE with GTK3 ends up being the transitional environment that the Gnome people should have provided. And I also hope that more users give Gnome 3 a try with an open mind, because it's a really great desktop once you get used to it!
-
Re:Extensions
But the gnome team said at the start that support for extentions would be removed.
They've set up a gnome web page for extensions, so I doubt they are going away. This statement at the site should clarify:
Since extensions are created outside of the normal GNOME design and development process, they are supported by their authors, rather than by the GNOME community. Some features first implemented as extensions might find their way into future versions of GNOME.
-
try downloading some extensions...
A moveable panel
There's an extension for that..
panel applets
Many extensions do that.. it goes against what gnome say, but they work. I've got my unread mail count in my panel..
desktop launchers
Urgh.. I'm sure someone could write one. I always turn off "file manager on desktop" because having to move a window out of the way to start something is a waste of time. I normally use my desktop space with, er, windows... you can already put files on the desktop. You can turn it on with the tweak tool. KDE got it right by adding a desktop widget, so it didn't take over the entire desktop. If I want to start an app, I go "t..e..r.." ooh, a terminal in 5 key presses!
user control of virtual desktops
There's an extension for that, although once you get used to it, the "new desktop every time you use the last" option is something I really don't want to go back from. It's really efficient once you've mapped better keys to desktop switching. Especially once you have 2 monitors and you CAN'T switch desktops on the other one. It acts like a sort of main work screen while all the web/email crap is the stuff you switch. Of course, there's an app to enable switching on the other screen.
menu alternatives that would remove the need for the overview
there's an extension for that. Although i'm not sure of the "remove the need". I prefer the overview - you don't have to use the mouse in it.
all of these could be added easily as options.
They ARE options. Try http://extensions.gnome.org./ There's even a single click on/off button for each extension to turn them on and off.
Honestly, people use it for 5 minutes and suddenly think they're an expert on desktop design by saying "lets make it like gnome 2!"
-
Re:More like "C with Classes"
I've gone the opposite direction. Moving more of my C++ code into C by using my own OOP system. Before you say "That's crazy talk",
I say "that's like GObject".
Works wonders, has dynamic typing and introspection, and it's even got a real high-level language these days. -
Useless waste of space
GNOME 3 is a cluster fuck! Now we have arbitrarily added search bars in each of the Nautilus windows? How is that any different than clicking in the window and just typing the name of the file you want, until it is highlighted? At least the old way didn't make us suffer the loss of screen real estate.
http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/files/2012/07/nautilus.png -
Re:Perhaps a good choice, but for the wrong reason
It's not the stated reason that matters. It would be too hard politically to pass such a change without a massive debate that would drain a giant amount of time from everyone involved. And here, we have a sane choice done over some easily fixable detail (recompressing everything as
.xz, already in progress, would allow Gnome3 to fit).Great kudos to Joey Hess. And if you have doubts he's right, consider what Linus said a year ago. Or, take a look at recent Slashdot, Phoronix, or even gnome.org articles.
-
Re:lets hope ubuntu fallows
You mean you never worked out how to unmaximise a window in Gnome 3? It's the opposite of maximising - drag the title bar to the top of the screen and the window will snap to maximised, drag the window away from the top and it will snap back to its previous size. It's really simple and actually discoverable, unlike some other things in Gnome 3.
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
"Window maximizing and tiling: You can maximize a window by dragging it to the top edge of the screen. Alternatively, you can double-click the window title. To unmaximize, pull it down again. By dragging windows to the left and right edges of the screen you can tile them side by side. " -
Re:Reason? GNOME3
I tried for a while to find a way to have a CPU and Network monitor like you could have it docked on a panel in gnome 2 but finally gave up.
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/
I also often use more than one terminal window, but when you click on the terminal icon in the apps list, it just takes you back to the terminal you already have open.
Ctrl-Shift-n from terminal opens a new window. Ctrl-Shift-t opens a new tab, which I prefer.
For vitual desktops, I personally prefer a fixed layout... email and web browser in upper left, work vitrual computer in lower left, etc. The ever-changing dynamic list doesn't work well for me.
There ought to be an extension for this... (One thing that bugs me about Gnome is there is so much potential in the extensions, but no one is writing them!)
The worst is that I can't get it to behave right with my laptop and external monitor. Laptops today come with shitty short screens, so when I work at home, I keep the lid closed and just use my external monitor. Gnome3 can't seem to grasp this and always assumes the laptop's monitor is the primary monitor, so I can't reach the widgets, menus, etc. Sure, I can muck with the display settings to fix it during a session, but I have to do it all over again if I reboot or need to open the lid for some reason.
From http://rainhilltrials.blogspot.ca/2011/09/changing-primary-display-in-gnome-3.html:
You just have to edit the file: ~/.config/monitors.xml
(Notice that this it's a "personal" config, so you have to do this inside of every acount you like this behaviour... That's why the ~/ wich means "my personal home dir").
where you can see an XML text detailing all displays configurations. Each one have a "primary" config line like this:
yes
Just put "yes" wherever you like to be your primary display and "no" in the other one(s)...
-
Re:Reason? GNOME3
I tried for a while to find a way to have a CPU and Network monitor like you could have it docked on a panel in gnome 2 but finally gave up.
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/9/systemmonitor/I also often use more than one terminal window, but when you click on the terminal icon in the apps list, it just takes you back to the terminal you already have open.
I use GNU screen for multiple terminals. Very handy, especially with Tilda.
-
Re:Reason? GNOME3
I tried for a while to find a way to have a CPU and Network monitor like you could have it docked on a panel in gnome 2 but finally gave up.
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/
https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/9/systemmonitor/I also often use more than one terminal window, but when you click on the terminal icon in the apps list, it just takes you back to the terminal you already have open.
I use GNU screen for multiple terminals. Very handy, especially with Tilda.
-
Re:Reason? GNOME3
You can get some speedup by speeding up the animations https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/277/impatience/
But I agree that it feels slow. Part of the problem is that all the functionality is hidden inside the activities menu.
-
Re:Static virtual desktops
This extension provides static workspaces. I seem to remember that it is slightly unstable, but it may work for you. The comments explain how you can configure the number. https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/12/static-workspaces/
You can middle click to open a new instance of a program.
-
Re:Reason? GNOME3
You can open a new terminal by middle clicking or by pressing ctrl-leftclick.
The following CPU-monitor is quite good https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/
Regarding fixed layout I would like to have an extension that allowed me to press a button, and have gnome-shell rearrange all the windows for me.
I personally never liked the upper left corner, so I use the axe menu. My only problem is that the axe menu does not allow me to arrange desktops. (I miss the old gnome 2 desktop applet) https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/327/axe-menu/
But my biggest problem is that gnome-shell is unstable. These days it freezes daily, so I have to open a terminal and write "gnome-shell --display=:0 --replace &". In the past I have had problems with extensions that suddenly caused everything to freeze after an update, but this time I cannot guess what is wrong.
-
Re:Reason? GNOME3
You can open a new terminal by middle clicking or by pressing ctrl-leftclick.
The following CPU-monitor is quite good https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/
Regarding fixed layout I would like to have an extension that allowed me to press a button, and have gnome-shell rearrange all the windows for me.
I personally never liked the upper left corner, so I use the axe menu. My only problem is that the axe menu does not allow me to arrange desktops. (I miss the old gnome 2 desktop applet) https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/327/axe-menu/
But my biggest problem is that gnome-shell is unstable. These days it freezes daily, so I have to open a terminal and write "gnome-shell --display=:0 --replace &". In the past I have had problems with extensions that suddenly caused everything to freeze after an update, but this time I cannot guess what is wrong.