Slashdot Mirror

As far as Google goes, they're too young to have done anything "evil" yet.

Wrong. Case in point

http://images.google.cn/images?q=tianamen

I went to http://google.cn/ and did a search for "tianamen" The first few matches were nothing to do with the MASSACRE, but then it showed a bunch of matches ABOUT THE MASSACRE. I find this hard to believe. Have Google rigged the search for people outside of China to hide their censoring?

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=tianamen&bt nG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=

Makes a mockery of Do No Evil. Google are just like any other corporation. We were suckers to believe otherwise.

I went to http://google.cn/ and did a search for "tianamen" The first few matches were nothing to do with the MASSACRE, but then it showed a bunch of matches ABOUT THE MASSACRE. I find this hard to believe. Have Google rigged the search for people outside of China to hide their censoring?

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=tianamen&bt nG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=

Makes a mockery of Do No Evil. Google are just like any other corporation. We were suckers to believe otherwise.

Easy example.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&q=t iananmen%20square&spell=1&
http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen+square& hl=zh-CN&btnG=%E6%259%9C%E7%B4%A2%E5%9B%BE%E7%89%8 7

Tanks on the American one, buildings on the Chinese one...
Nope, no difference at all.

While you're at it, try searching:
falun gong -- obvious difference in what is displayed
taiwan -- nothing too obvious at first, but the difference in the number of hits is 2 orders of magnitude

And the US has been condeming, and singing songs, and calling Kent State a massacre ever since. The Chinese Govermment is still hiding from its own people what happened at Tiananmen. Do a Google image search of Kent State, and let me know what you get. Then do a Google image search of Tianamen and let me know what you get.

How do you tell when a Communist is lying? His lips are moving. And it's perfectly true. Remember what Marxism really is:
Step 1 - Revolt
Step 2 - Appoint a dictator
Step 3 - ???
Step 4 - Communist Utopia

Communism has been responsible for more pain and suffering than any other form of government in the history of men. Even today, let's not forget about the ongoing genocide against the Hmong in Vietnam, or the autogenocide slaughter of 25% of the population by the Khmer Rouge. Let's not forget the 40 million dead during the Great Leap Forward and the 10 million dead during the Cultural Revolition. The illegal war in Korea, and the massacre of 30,000 civilians population in Seoul by the North Koreans and Chinese. Let's not forget the slaughter in Hungary, and the poisoning of the land that the Soviet Union left as a legacy. Or the wholesale slaughter in Afghanistan and the rape of Germany.

The legacy of Communism is death and destruction and the morphing of Communism into a system of fascism in China. Communism has finally failed and become what it was meant to fight. It was always a failure, and was logically flawed. It could not be anything else. The great regret is that fools today refuse to acknowlege this and people still die.

Try this: Oooh tanks!!

Now try this: Hey where'd all the tanks go!?

Now take note of the fact that you are (in all likelyhood) not in China.

The images you want are on page 5. Alternatively, search for it as the june 4th incident: http://images.google.cn/images?q=%E5%85%AD%E6%9C%8 8%E5%9B%9B%E6%97%A5&hl=zh-CN&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4% A2%E5%9B%BE%E7%89%87

Google Video China (http://video.google.cn/) definitely does not show Google Video content from the US National Archive. Damn Google Censorship...

Google Video China (http://video.google.cn/) definitely does not show Google Video content from the US National Archive. Damn Google Censorship...

Note he didn't say which government. http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen

Really? Seems to me that a search engine's job is to provide relevant results. Every time you type Tiananmen I'm sure you're thinking massacre, but what about the people who live there?

"Honey, let's go to the Tiananmen massacre square and watch the big new year ceremony."

Yeah, I didn't think they'd say it that way either so why should they have to type it into a search engine that way?

www.Google.cn with "Tiananmen massacre"

In fact, the censor is blatantly imperfect: http://www.google.cn/search?q=tiananmen&svnum=10&h l=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&sa=N&tab=iw

Notice result 5, "Eyeballing Tienanmen Square Massacre."

http://www.google.cn/search?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&lr=& cr=countryCN&q=china%20censorship&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E 7%B4%A2&sa=N&tab=iw

Do a search for china censorship on www.google.cn and look what's the first result!

Google is the #1 source of censorship in china according to google.cn!!!

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tiananmen doesn't get redirected however.

Are they trying to hide something from me perhaps? ;)

Apparently there are no naked ladies in China...

Only one result and it's a cartoon where you can't even see the boobies.

CHINA:
http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=naked+lady&btnG=??

US:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr= &q=naked+lady&btnG=Search

...and using the force of law to pull a China.

http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen

Do you understand the difference a little better now?

student protest china

OMG, don't you know that you're not supposed to search for that!!11i9jhA4uNO CARRIER

Heh looks like the censor isn't quite perfected. Notice the tanks amongst the happy people.

http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen&svnum=1 0&hl=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&start=80&sa=N

One additional intresting link on google:

http://images.google.com/images?q=democracy
http://images.google.cn/images?cr=countryCN&q=demo cracy

note cr=countryCN without it the chinese google will give you what .com gives you.

Looks like their website (studentsforafreetibet.org) still comes up 4th in a search for "free tibet" on Google China...:here

Don't blame Google, blame China.

Without the restrictions Google can not do business in China.

Intresting to note are the "small" diffrencens on the two Google sites google.com and google.cn.

Tiananmen with tanks:
http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen

Tiananmen with happy people:
http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen

Ones again, blame China.

The fundamental issue: people sitting in other countries have acted to kill a substantial number of people in the US and abroad.

You are wrong - that is not the fundamental issue being discussed. The issue is whether or not the president has the authority to spy on US citizens *without approval & oversight*. Bush thinks he does; many others disagree. This is a core issue of civil rights.

Twisting the argument into "but we need to do it to catch bad guys!" is a nice straw man. It's not about what "bad guys" want to do, it's about what rights law-abiding citizens have. There's plenty of people both in the US and the rest of the world, that want to kill people in a terroristic fashion (recall some examples), so at what point should we - the United States of America - draw the line between liberty & security?

As a point of reference, China doesn't seem to have had many problems with terrorism.

Google has refused, so far. The US government has asked a federal court to force Google to comply. If the court rules in the feds favor, Google doesn't have much choice, if they want to stay in business.

However, a US court is not likely to compel Google to provide search histories that are traceable to a specific user or IP address, in the absence of a warrant. And a warrant is not likely to be granted for a specific user's search history unless there is reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed.

But, it isn't a crime to criticize the government in the US. It _is_ a crime to do so in China -- or at least they will invent a crime, if necessary.

Google is explicitly keeping Gmail out of China. But, their servers for http://www.google.cn/ are in China. Are they tracking search history? If that information is retained there, the Chinese government can seize it whenever they want, no matter what Google says.

And Google's involvement to Tiananmen is?

In erasing it from the collective memory of the Chinese. Compare American Google with Chinese Google. Echos of 1984 indeed.

Check the 5th page, there's a picture of the student and the tanks.

http://images.google.cn/imgres?imgurl=http://web.m blogger.cn/images/web.mblogger.cn/demo/1742/o_Tian anmen.jpg&imgrefurl=http://demo.mblogger.cn/galler y/image/2287.aspx&h=449&w=494&sz=23&tbnid=Cw53S8pJ LM-Z4M:&tbnh=115&tbnw=127&hl=zh-CN&start=86&prev=/ images%3Fq%3Dtiananmen%26start%3D80%26svnum%3D10%2 6hl%3Dzh-CN%26lr%3D%26cr%3DcountryCN%26sa%3DN

It's a good thing most americans don't know how to spell tiananmen. http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&q=tienamen&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2 ZOMG result 1!

Just to doublecheck you point I clicked next a few times and found this:
http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen&svnum=1 0&hl=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&start=80&sa=N

Checkout the sixth picture.

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=wikipedia+t iananmen&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=cn&q=wikipedia+tia nanmen

There is a line here and it is so fine that a man or a company can step across it, go on about his business, and never know the difference. Google says it is trying to use this as an opportunity to help bring global censorship into the spotlight of American politics, but how would we feel if it were Microsoft saying that they have been trying to bring the dangers of illegal monopolies into the public light, or the RIAA, claiming to illuminate the hardships of the consumer.

Maybe Google is working "undercover" here. Maybe they are functioning as an operative. Or maybe they have switched sides and they don't even know it yet. Anandpur posted a link to the normal Google Image search for Tianamen square and to the Google China Image search for the same thing. The differences were both astounding and exactly what you would expect.

There is a line here and it is so fine that a man or a company can step across it, go on about his business, and never know the difference. Google says it is trying to use this as an opportunity to help bring global censorship into the spotlight of American politics, but how would we feel if it were Microsoft saying that they have been trying to bring the dangers of illegal monopolies into the public light, or the RIAA, claiming to illuminate the hardships of the consumer.

Maybe Google is working "undercover" here. Maybe they are functioning as an operative. Or maybe they have switched sides and they don't even know it yet. Anandpur posted a link to the normal Google Image search for Tianamen square and to the Google China Image search for the same thing. The differences were both astounding and exactly what you would expect.

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&newwindow=1&q=%E5%85%AD%E5%9B%9B&b tnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2

Anyway, Tianmen Square is famous for a number of reasons in China, not just the Tianmen Square incident.

Thanks, but we've all seen Google China's tiananmen search vs The US version

However it's interesting to note that something censored in the US is censored all over the world

Not comparing what's been censored. Just where.

Thanks, but we've all seen Google China's tiananmen search vs The US version

However it's interesting to note that something censored in the US is censored all over the world

Not comparing what's been censored. Just where.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=t iananmen&spell=1&sa=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananme n&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&sa=N&tab=wi

Glad to know the fundies running China are up to the task of protecting us from porn, especially of that really depraved Tiennamen sort.

...that getting more Western firms involved in China, no matter what limited capacity they must start off with, will only lead to increased liberty in China?

Is there any reason to suspect cordoning China off will be a better path to reformation?

Arbitrary hardline positions are fun and all, but I'd like to see some evidence that cultural embargos of a nation are more likely to bring them around to your point of view than simply increasing economic contacts. Compare the results of economic isolation on Cuba and North Korea, contrast it with the economic integration invovled with Japan and Germany. (Obligatory reference to Friedman's The Lexus and the Olive Tree).

Maybe Tiananmen Square leaves something to be desired, but there are still some valuable searches out there.

PS - hey, looks like they patched some of the misspelling workarounds.

...that getting more Western firms involved in China, no matter what limited capacity they must start off with, will only lead to increased liberty in China?

Is there any reason to suspect cordoning China off will be a better path to reformation?

Arbitrary hardline positions are fun and all, but I'd like to see some evidence that cultural embargos of a nation are more likely to bring them around to your point of view than simply increasing economic contacts. Compare the results of economic isolation on Cuba and North Korea, contrast it with the economic integration invovled with Japan and Germany. (Obligatory reference to Friedman's The Lexus and the Olive Tree).

Maybe Tiananmen Square leaves something to be desired, but there are still some valuable searches out there.

PS - hey, looks like they patched some of the misspelling workarounds.

...that getting more Western firms involved in China, no matter what limited capacity they must start off with, will only lead to increased liberty in China?

Is there any reason to suspect cordoning China off will be a better path to reformation?

Arbitrary hardline positions are fun and all, but I'd like to see some evidence that cultural embargos of a nation are more likely to bring them around to your point of view than simply increasing economic contacts. Compare the results of economic isolation on Cuba and North Korea, contrast it with the economic integration invovled with Japan and Germany. (Obligatory reference to Friedman's The Lexus and the Olive Tree).

Maybe Tiananmen Square leaves something to be desired, but there are still some valuable searches out there.

PS - hey, looks like they patched some of the misspelling workarounds.

Yea. right. When you're in China you have access to every site on the Internet. You think Chinese users can access google.com when there is a perfectly "good" google at google.cn ?

They say a picture's worth a thousand words.

Google == Ministry of Truth, anyone?

They say a picture's worth a thousand words.

Google == Ministry of Truth, anyone?

>Google is now also helping repress millions of
>Tibetans who have suffered under harsh military
>occupation by the Chinese since 1950.

man I'm giving up my moderator points but what the heck.

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=free+tibet& btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=

Odd, but http://www.google.cn/search?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&lr=& cr=countryCN&q=tiananmen%20massacre&sa=N&tab=iw still gives results.

Google owns their search engine of course, but I think it's just a little evil to essentially make an entire company disappear from teh interwebs. If they weren't so pervasive then this would be a non-issue, but when I see these stories I get a little worried. Hopefully they won't expand their definition of "cheating" to include things we might think are OK.

The idea that I would ever disable AdBlock is preposterous in the extreme !

And on another note here's a good reason not to use Google tools (i.e. Gmail, Toolbars etc. etc.)

Search for Tiananmen from Google Images:

http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen

Search Tiananmen from Google China:

http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen

"Do No Evil" eh ?

Sorry I'll be careful to limit the amount of personal information I allow to flow through your servers thanks.

(searching in UPPERCASE, adding a period, ...)

Bullshit.

http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananme n&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&sa=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=tiananmen.&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4% A2

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=TIANANMEN&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A 2

(searching in UPPERCASE, adding a period, ...)

Bullshit.

http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananme n&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&sa=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=tiananmen.&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4% A2

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=TIANANMEN&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A 2

(searching in UPPERCASE, adding a period, ...)

Bullshit.

http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananme n&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&sa=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=tiananmen.&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4% A2

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&l r=&cr=countryCN&q=TIANANMEN&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A 2