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Iraq is directly linked to 9/11 through the Anthrax attacks. You simply cannot separate the two attacks from each other.

The first batch of Anthrax attacks that were mailed out were sent out just about a week after 9/11 (Sept 18th), and from the New Jersey neighborhood where a 9/11 hijacker cell had operated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

http://www.historycommons.org/...

Not only that, the CIA learned through interrogations of high level Al-Qaeda members that Saddam's secret police had been working with Al-Qaeda, and providing them with biological weapons such as Anthrax, and training on how to use it. This was collaborated by Israeli intelligence about a meeting in Prague that occured between Al-Qaeda operative Mohamed Atta and Iraqi intelligence where anthrax was handed off.

https://www.democracynow.org/2...

We know Saddam had been working on mobile biological weapons labs thanks defectors who were brave enough to risk everything and give us that information.

Finally, it's worth noting that while most of the anthrax attacks were either from the Ames strain which could have been domestic, or harmless fake anthrax, the stuff that was mailed out to Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy came from a different strain that could not be identified. It was highly refined and much more deadly. It is not believed by anyone to have come from the US.

The 9/11 failure was not due to a lack of effort or stupid 'ole Bush not listening to intelligence.

That might well be true -- OTOH, anecdotes like Bush dismissing the "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US" briefer with a simple "All right. You've covered your ass, now." don't look too flattering in retrospect. But sure, maybe they did all they could reasonably be expected to do, and just got unlucky.

Nobody believed that Saddam was behind 9/11, but it absolutely was believed (see again, faulty intelligence) that he had chemical weapons and probably nukes. There were a few unreliable sources that the DO put too much credence in. I'm not going to defend the action the invade Iraq because I thought--and think--that it was poorly executed

The idea that the decision to invade Iraq was an "honest mistake" has been pretty well discredited. The Bush Administration (and in particular the Vice President) were deliberately and willfully "Fixing the intelligence and facts around the policy". That is, they knew the conclusion and the policy they wanted, and they were perfectly willing to ignore any inconvenient facts that might contradict it, and even make up facts to support it when necessary. In particular, Dick Cheney kept pressuring the CIA for reports that fit his preferred narrative, until they finally gave him a report that said something close enough to what he wanted it to say. Whether the Executive branch had actually fooled themselves or were "merely" being dishonest to others in service of a preordained policy objective is beside the point -- a competent and serious administration would have remained objective and thoughtful about such a serious matter, and thereby likely would have avoided a catastrophic policy mistake.

So... how's that 9/11 Commission due process working out for everyone?

Whistler: I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
Bernard Abbott: Oh, this is ridiculous.
Martin Bishop: He's serious.
Whistler: I want peace on earth and goodwill toward men.
Bernard Abbott: We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
~From the movie 'Sneakers', 1992

If the pages should become leaked, there are several respected lawmakers who have seen them and are presently on record as supporting their public release. Those are the people who can attest to the veracity of what is leaked, and help sort through any bogus versions that may appear also. As one who has seriously researched the bizarre circumstances (and odd coincidences) of 9/11 I was really disgusted by Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 'thing', in which Moore clumsily attempts to smear Saudi Arabia with complicity without any real foundation. He disguised his Bush-rant it as a 9/11 truth documentary to score at the Box Office. Meanwhile many a more reasonable approach and fascinating film has gone unseen.

It may be that certain Saudis participated in the funding and planning of 9/11, just as certain Pakistanis seemed to be in the loop, and some bizarre murders may have an explanation to do with the events of 9/11. More likely than not the (presumed) Saudis were not acting on behalf of or with full knowledge of their government, but it's time for the information to be aired publicly. Saudi Arabia is the head-choppingoffest country around these days and it would be interesting to see that if true evidence surfaces, whether they consider 9/11 complicity to be worth losing one's head over.

The way to do it if for the pages to be leaked. The way not to do it is to pass a bill that nurtures a growing vilification/sanction 'industry' such as the PNAC wet dream which sent us headlong into the Middle East for oil (ostensibly, revenge). I remember the good old days when acts of terrorism were met with efforts to trace and bring to justice the individuals and specific organizations involved.

So... how's that 9/11 Commission due process working out for everyone?

Whistler: I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
Bernard Abbott: Oh, this is ridiculous.
Martin Bishop: He's serious.
Whistler: I want peace on earth and goodwill toward men.
Bernard Abbott: We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
~From the movie 'Sneakers', 1992

If the pages should become leaked, there are several respected lawmakers who have seen them and are presently on record as supporting their public release. Those are the people who can attest to the veracity of what is leaked, and help sort through any bogus versions that may appear also. As one who has seriously researched the bizarre circumstances (and odd coincidences) of 9/11 I was really disgusted by Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 'thing', in which Moore clumsily attempts to smear Saudi Arabia with complicity without any real foundation. He disguised his Bush-rant it as a 9/11 truth documentary to score at the Box Office. Meanwhile many a more reasonable approach and fascinating film has gone unseen.

It may be that certain Saudis participated in the funding and planning of 9/11, just as certain Pakistanis seemed to be in the loop, and some bizarre murders may have an explanation to do with the events of 9/11. More likely than not the (presumed) Saudis were not acting on behalf of or with full knowledge of their government, but it's time for the information to be aired publicly. Saudi Arabia is the head-choppingoffest country around these days and it would be interesting to see that if true evidence surfaces, whether they consider 9/11 complicity to be worth losing one's head over.

The way to do it if for the pages to be leaked. The way not to do it is to pass a bill that nurtures a growing vilification/sanction 'industry' such as the PNAC wet dream which sent us headlong into the Middle East for oil (ostensibly, revenge). I remember the good old days when acts of terrorism were met with efforts to trace and bring to justice the individuals and specific organizations involved.

Then it's a good thing we're only talking about waterboarding.

.... which is torture; not expressing my opinion, but legal fact.

http://www.public-access-proje...

http://www.historycommons.org/...

In the aftermath of World War II, Japanese officer Yukio Asano is charged by a US war crimes tribunal for torturing a US civilian. Asano had used the technique of “waterboarding” on the prisoner (see 1800 and After). The civilian was strapped to a stretcher with his feet in the air and head towards the floor, and water was poured over his face, causing him to gasp for air until he agreed to talk. Asano is convicted and sentenced to 15 years of hard labor. Other Japanese officers and soldiers are also tried and convicted of war crimes that include waterboarding US prisoners. “All of these trials elicited compelling descriptions of water torture from its victims, and resulted in severe punishment for its perpetrators,” reporter Evan Wallach will later write. In 2006, Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA), discussing allegations of US waterboarding of terror suspects, will say in regards to the Asano case, “We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II.”

Quite frankly, the easy way to make people understand this is simple: throw them in a cell for a few years, or decades, and waterboard them every few days. Sure you say that you've done nothing wrong, but we won't really be sure for another 10-20 years now will we. All these sociopaths and sadists who don't think it's torture will be singing a different tune pretty quick. I bet before that time is up you confess to a whole hell of a lot of things.

Not sure why this is being flagged as off topic. If the Reagan Administration was willing to overthrow a democratically elected government in the United States, no wonder the Soviets were scared.

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=abefore86rex84

This was true before that Russian airliner went down in the Sinai, and ISIS so helpfully claimed responsibility.

Putin has staged terrorist acts against his own citizens before. I would not put too much credence into that airliner's disaster...

but now, w/ this Russian plane going down, ISIS kicked themselves up in the scheduler list.

Yes, and suddenly Putin no longer seems like such a bad guy, does he? I mean, invasion of a peaceful neighbor is soooo last year, we need to cooperate with Russia now, do we not?

230 Russian lives are a small price to pay for such a turn in the world's public opinion. Glory be to Mother Russia...

"The moment he stopped letting them in (and he did stop)"

Not true, and even fox news reported otherwise (though that report went in the memory hole and did not inform subsequent reporting from them.)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2...

Context and timeline:

http://www.historycommons.org/...

Facts. So inconvenient for your comfortable fiction.

I would say less than 30 years ago this was true.

Really? The U.S. was a great beacon on liberty in the 1980s, when Regan and his buddies were propping up death squads in Latin America, and selling weapons to Iran, and used the NSA to spy on Congress-critters who opposed their policies? When the War on (Some) Drugs was getting ramped up and the great boom of the prison-industrial complex took off?

There has never been a time when the U.S. came close to living up to its hype. It was founded on slavery and genocide and dedicated to the proposition that the purpose of government is to preserve privilege for the wealthy.

The US will arrest people on US territory or in international waters using whatever methods they can. For instance, in Operation Goldenrod a suspect was lured onto a yacht, and then taken to international waters. He was interrogated aboard US Navy ships, and returned to the US via an aircraft carrier.

Additionally, under the Ker-Frisbie doctrine people can be prosecuted regardless of the legality of the method of their extradition. For example, the DEA hired Trent Tompkins (a private citizen) to kidnap Alvarez-Machain in Mexico and return him to the United States, where he was later tried over Mexico's objections.

Finally, state police can act outside of their home state to arrest someone and bring them to trial. In the case of Shirley Collins, the accused was kidnapped in Chicago (illegally) by Michigan police, brought to trial and convicted.

Any citations to back up your statement?

Citations? Citations? You need citations that pushing massive tax cuts for the rich while starting an illegal, unnecessary War of Terror had a weeee bit of a negative impact on the nations finances?

Seeing how the USA are the biggest bully on the planet, it is a smart choice for no country to depend on them, even for the EU, itself made of big bullies.
The USA have already misbehaved with their "friends" and there is no reason to believe that they will not do it again. Therefore seeking independence from them is the sane thing to do.

Links with info for folks interested in the book I mentioned:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_of_Honor

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a94clancybook

Tunisia has a caliphate? Since when did they organize a massive worldwide shura and elect a new Amir-ul-Mumineen? I must have missed the invitation.

1) The people whose websites Anonymous hacked are those who want to establish such a caliphate. They call themselves the movement for a caliphate, so it's not wrong for Anonymous to call them that.

2) One could argue that the establishment of such a caliphate is exactly what happened when Hassan al-Turabi formed a conference of Islamic terrorist organizations in 1991. The resulting unified worldwide terrorist organization, which Turabi named the Popular International Organization, came to be known in the West as al-Qaeda. Founding members included Iran, the Palestinians, and the Muslim Brotherhood. The parties that Anonymous is defacing are fronts for, or supporters of, one or more of the parties in Turabi's network.

To be fair, the NSA was culpable for allowing 9/11 to happen. They had information that indicated that the perps were doing something. They also refused to share that info with the FBI and the CIA... It wasn't the first time either.

BUT, rather than own it, Hayden pretty much sells the idea that the only way to prevent this from happening again is to increase spying and to increase the scope of what the NSA can sweep. I don't think it's tyrannical... But I also don't believe for a second that they're guilt-wracked. I've seen this pattern before... It's called not owning the issue and covering your ass. Hayden did exactly that. He came up with another "option" that made it look like it wasn't his (or the NSA's fault) and it was bought.

I'll argue that the photos can make things worse.

Sure there was celebration. But you know what? As far as I know, Osama wasn't burned in effigy anywhere. Osama's corpse wasn't foisted into the air and displayed as a trophy. Instead his body was quickly disposed of, supposedly in accordance with Islamic burial rights.

American citizens killed at the hands of Muslim extremists have, in the past, not been afforded that dignity.

So as it stands, even though there were celebrations in the streets, we have yet to reach the level of insensitivity shown by others. Releasing the photos will only bring us down to their level.
=Smidge=

In a separate case, Orrin Hatch inadvertently revealed on September 12,2001 that we had been monitoring the communications of bin Laden's associates, though whether that had any effect on anything isn't clear.

He never said they were owned by the state, just that the state helped them. One incident that I know of is when they gave secret info from Echelon to Boeing, fucking Airbus in the process. You can read about this and more incidents here: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=boeing_company_1

Given that the NSA snooped on Airbus here in Europe to give Boeing an advantage in negotiations, I'm not sure I want any government to be able to snoop on anything.

Yes, the world would be different. It is a pity that you've lost the context of why these interventions occurred.

Let me remind you of "context" in one word: Oil. Using the "we have to 'contain' the soviet world takover bid" marketing line to sell the move under the fear label - no different to the WMD "context" used to invade Iraq, again, for oil.

Here is more context than you can poke a stick at.. how about you start by looking up the "context" around British Petroleum's role in the US-Iran conforntation.

And I want to see a terrorist group that can afford 126 of these systems (not to mention the ship and trained personnel to actually operate the system), or a government that would go to that much effort just to take down a ship when conventional aircraft strikes would be much more efficient and effective.

Seriously, this is much ado about nothing. There are a multitude of powerful weapons that are way more portable than this (like Stringer missiles) that terrorists could potentially use but never have (unless you count the time we GAVE them Stingers). Even Iran isn't stupid enough to give these yahoos their top-grade stuff.

Sadly the 'death threat' I received via email wasn't some kind of advertisement and merely an attempt to scam me out of money:

Look here you bastard. You think i have time for this your stupid talk, i just
inform you that some one paid me to kill you and you are
here talking no sence to me. this is like the same warning pass on to the
america government when they ignore it and it became and ignorance to
them, and this is the same warning also pass to the most polular MUSICIAN WHO
WAS SHORT DEAD IN SOUTH AFRICA. am also passing this
warning to you so if you want to ignore it then you too will face in hell and
join the devil.

If you do not comply and cooperate with me in your reply to this email, you
will leave me no option as to instruct my Boys to get you shot, for your
informations you are to Pay the sum of $3,500 Usd to live your life as a free
Citizen, but if you ignore.... As a matter of fact the person whom insructed me
to get you killed is waiting for your Funeral news.

http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/top.htm
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=noordin_mohammed_top_1

Noordin Mohammed.

Oddly enough that email cheered me up when I received it.

BTW I was in a Physics department that didn't side with the press on this one. We all have different jobs now.

Back it up or it didn't happen.

None of us received a dime from the oil industry nor got new jobs in the oil industry.

Then you weren't looking. Exxon, for example, has an outstanding offer to pay scientists to publish papers against global warming.

many commentators are now levelling the accusation of fraud because that suits the purposes of much of the West...
so it is essentially Mousavi's supporters who are a smaller faction trying to undermine democracy with violence. If they get anywhere (and whatever you think of the GP, covert Western support or promises of support for his followers is extremely plausible), then it would just push Iran back to a more totalitarian state because they certainly wont win whatever the West would like to pretend. They don't have the support of the common people and, quite frankly, they appear to have lost the election.
Mousavi - good or bad (and he's no angel, just more amenable to Western interests), you can't just allow democracy when it elects the people you want elected.

In light of past US and British government/corporate behavior when it comes to securing rights to Iranian oil (i.e. Operation Ajax), the many fraud claims being thrown about reek of self-interest propaganda similar to that used in the plot to depose Mosaddeq - which any way you slice it was a very evil deed to secure oil rights. Anyway, today there is to much shit flying about (even more than in the Bush in Florida 2000 elections, at least on the international news circuit) to really know what the truth is. Best to step back and look at the big picture and Iran's history time line to put the current propaganda "news" into the context it deserves.

I didn't read his drivel about Iraq, nor was I replying to him. The reason I made the comment is because I agreed with the OP that he is a nutter and I base that classification on past observations and discussion I have had with him. If you feel a compultion to stand up for him then good for you, just be aware that your wasting your time trying to make a dent in my opinion of him and his sock puppets.

As for YOUR adopted claim that "everyone at the time was convinced that Saddam still had his WMD's", I think you are forgetting Robin Cook (the Britsh foriegn minister at the time) who resigned in disgust over the issue. Maybe you don't consider the Britsh foriegn minister to be a "major player" but as I indicated before this is not about Iraq or the nutter's revisionist history of what people knew at the time. There were plenty of other "players" who knew the WMD thing was bullshit both here in Australia and in the UK, I understand why they were not given any air time in the US but that's another sad story.

BTW: I tentatively supported the invasion because of Saddam's track record, but even I knew the WMD thing was propoganda at the time, I'm not ashamed to say I made a mistake and grossly overestimated GWB's competence, I realised I had made that mistake on the third day when the US dismantled Iraq's institutions (cops, etc) then stood back and allowed looters to trash the place. But I have forgiven myself for that mistake since I'm not the commander in chief of the world's last remaining superpower, I'm just an old fart living at the arse end of the Earth.

"alleged al-Qaida operations mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed intended to use his free Hotmail account to direct a U.S.-based operative to carry out an attack .. He used a "10-code" to protect the numbers -- subtracting the actual digits in the phone numbers from 10 to arrive at a coded number, according to a person close to the investigation"

"Qatari citizen Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, a computer science graduate student at Illinois's Bradley University .. a bachelor's degree from Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois, in the early 1990s, and was returning to the United States to obtain a master's degree from Bradley"

"Rogue" agents are not the problem. Sanctioned industrial espionage is the problem

You got that right. Here is another "small" example - to the tune of 6 billion, with a 1.3 billion side show - all old news:

July 11, 2001: European Parliament Report: Echelon Data Provided to US Corporations
Glyn Ford.Glyn Ford. [Source: British Labour Party]The European Parliament releases its final report on its findings about the secretive US surveillance program known as Echelon. The report, two years in the making, exhaustively details many of Echelon's surveillance capabilities, and lists many of Echelon's surveillance stations around the world. One of the more interesting sections of the report concerns its apparent use on behalf of US corporations. According to the report, Echelonâ"operated by the NSA as a highly classified surveillance program ostensibly for tracking terrorist threats and activities by nations hostile to the West is also being used for corporate and industrial espionage, with information from the program being turned over to US corporations for their financial advantage. The report gives several instances of Echelon's use by corporations. One is the use of Echelon to "lift... all the faxes and phone calls" between the European aircraft manufacturer Airbus and Saudi Arabian Airlines; that information was used by two American companies, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas, to outflank Airbus and win a $6 billion contract. The report also alleges that the French company Thomson-CSF lost a $1.3 billion satellite deal to Raytheon the same way. Glyn Ford, the MP who commissioned the report, says he doesn't have a problem with Echelon itself, but in the way it is being used. "Now, you know, if we're catching the bad guys, we're completely in favor of that... What we're concerned about is that some of the good guys in my constituency don't have jobs because US corporations got an inside track onâ"on some global deal."
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=airbus_1

British Labor party spokesman above says that they are completely in favor of spying on European citizens - as long as they can benefit from industrial espionage as well. I guess the "bad guys" now means anyone, anywhere either corporation, country or individuals - who do not contribute directly or indirectly to their political campaign fund, roll their national resources over to foreign exploitation. Talk about fringe benefits from (mis)using public office.

I had a lecture once about altered photos and the media. They shop images
Original
http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/a999Kent_State_massacre_2050081722-20864.gif
Shopped, before there was shop
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Z2Bo9vLfJV8/R29OCSaWpGI/AAAAAAAABOg/ocwVYjEXOvo/13+-+Kent+State+Massacre.JPG

I'm guessing people are only starting to care now because that one guy added smoke to some pictures, to make it look like a bombing.