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People should have been using FBSD for wifi access points and aggregation long ago. Glad to see the corporate folks have finally figured out how linux errodes the bottom line.

The
stupider
ones
haven't
figured
it
out
yet.
You'd
better
go
tell
them!

http://h10018.www1.hp.com/wwsolutions/solaris/inde x-all.html Is a matrix of OSes to HP Servers. It took a while to find it.

Huh? HP approached Intel with the EPIC architecture, as it was based on their next generation PA/RISC research. The HP/Intel allience is a refinement of the Super-Parallel Processor Architecture (SP-PA). There was no swindling or bluffing HP. If anything, one could say Intel was tricked since they dropped their x86-64 designs, lost focus on x86 in general, and invested billions in Itanium. Try actually reading some of the history next time.

The failure of the other architecture is not just Intel's successful marketing, but also in the lack of interest to continue development by the respective companies.

... or by the fact there is a technology company in Idaho.

I know you were being funny, but I assume you've heard of these guys... http://www.micron.com/

...Maybe these guys... http://www.hp.com/

But don't take my word for it: http://www.entrepreneur.com/Magazines/Copy_of_MA_S egArticle/0,4453,308612,00.html

How can any of these be considered a viablealternative if "None of the products provides full Outlook-to-Exchange feature fidelity in Outlook"?

My *real* alternative to an expensive Exchange server in house is: hosted Exchange. It's *much* cheaper for small businesses, and there's no need to sacrifice any functionality.

Many HP employees are members of the Debian development community.
- Paul Bame, Dann Frazier, Bdale Garbee, Eric Schwartz, Al Stone, Matt Taggart, and Matthew Wilcox among others are "Debian Developers"
- HP hosts several iimportant servers for the Debian project, including gluck.debian.org, a full primary mirror (85GB); merkel.debian.org and merulo.debian.org, ia64 development systems; and paer.debian.org, a hppa development system.
- HP has donated additional systems to the Debian project that are used for infrastructure and pporting efforts
- HP uses Debian as its internal development platform
- HP Linux Inkjet Driver project

and many more http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.html [hp.com].

Many HP employees are members of the Debian development community.
- Paul Bame, Dann Frazier, Bdale Garbee, Eric Schwartz, Al Stone, Matt Taggart, and Matthew Wilcox among others are "Debian Developers"
- HP hosts several iimportant servers for the Debian project, including gluck.debian.org, a full primary mirror (85GB); merkel.debian.org and merulo.debian.org, ia64 development systems; and paer.debian.org, a hppa development system.
- HP has donated additional systems to the Debian project that are used for infrastructure and pporting efforts
- HP uses Debian as its internal development platform
- HP Linux Inkjet Driver project

and many more http://opensource.hp.com/opensource_projects.html.

And then find http://opensource.hp.com/

How much code has HP contributed to the free software community?

A decent amount. Especially for the ia64 port of the Linux kernel. Speaking of the kernel, searching for hp.com yields:

find -type f | xargs egrep -i 'hp\.com'| field 2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr

62 * David Mosberger-Tang ignore, necessary to get around lameness filter M871E.B4:'4L(#$Q($%U9R`R,#`U(#$Q
24 * Stephane Eranian M=&5N="U$:7-P;W-I=CH@:6YL:
21 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 David Mosberger-Tang IA T87(N8V]M QY+51O.B`\,C`P-3`X,3`Q,C0P+D%!
9 * Copyright (C) 1998-2000 David Mosberger-Tang I86T@86YD($UA E=#X*36EM92U697)S:
6 * Copyright (C) 1999 David Mosberger-Tang 2!W96YT(&]U="!O9B!T;W
6 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang H*36EK90H*+2T@"B\M+2TM+2
5 * Copyright (C) 2000 David Mosberger-Tang AyFASqYoMmJPf85ZLO00VrEkvAqK1n
4 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/ QMQuvc4wCoVrwy6nntuCWUv5vqWUNL
4 * David Mosberger
3 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>. 1N8xbkGGHFA6wsn2vg3Sb1CHBPR0xZ
3 http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/680/>.
3 * Copyright (C) 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Copyright (C) 1999-2000 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Authors : Jean Tourrilhes - HPL -
2 Tourrilhes "); QUru8ETk2Tf3OSbyyVmxq7VtCczJDX
2 * Jean Tourrilhes , iy1RF8caRL62intVPcagjsviCAecgp
2 * I (Jean Tourrilhes - jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com) then started to make some
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 * http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html
2 http://www.hp.com/jornada/>. z6mDPHewxRuwEb3zZlqCtOb0d1DbVi
2 * (http://www.hp.com/go/retailbooks/) vnQQAeglPaprGeE8rAUIgCR7tU2Efq
2 Copyright (C) Alex Williamson (alex_williamson@hp.com)
2 * Copyright (C) 2002 Khalid Aziz
2 * Copyright (C) 2001, Jean Tourrilhes
2 * Copyright (C) 2001 Jean Tourrilhes, HP Labs
2 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 Stephane Eranian
1 Weissgaerber , Dag Brattli and Jean Tourrilhes ");
1 * v1.25kf Added No Interrupt on successful Tx for some Tx's
1 This method provided by L. Julliard, Laurent_Julliard@grenoble.hp.com.
1 * Stephen Hack : Fixed ace_set_mac_addr for little
1 * see http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/docs/techpap ers/ia64/slit.pdf
1 report them to linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com, which is the
1 paul_bame@hp.com VkgRelv4ms3ijoXEUIn6x285iE3C4b
1 linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com
1 jt@hpl.hp.com
1 jsm@fc.hp.com Je8cG1SE6M8ckdHjFAHfIi0B6Zm9gy
1 "John Marvin"
1 * John Marvin
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (new version)
1 * Jean Tourrilhes - HPL - 17 November 00
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com),
1 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>
1 http://users.dhp.com/~whisper/ipfwadm2ipchains/
1 (http://software.hp.com/ia64linux/>).
1 handheld computer. See http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/720>
1 grundler@puffin.external.hp.com
1 Grant Grundler
1 * for FAST[+] chipsets.
1 eranian@hpl.hp.com
1 Eranian ");
1 Eranian
1 David Mosberger-Tang
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com if IA-64 related, else David.Mosberger@acm.org
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com z3eXOQku4EcpzW1M5WbfrIbrD4VKxW
1 * , and Jean Tourrilhes
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Bjorn Helgaas
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Alex Williamson
1 *

How much code has HP contributed to the free software community?

A decent amount. Especially for the ia64 port of the Linux kernel. Speaking of the kernel, searching for hp.com yields:

find -type f | xargs egrep -i 'hp\.com'| field 2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr

62 * David Mosberger-Tang ignore, necessary to get around lameness filter M871E.B4:'4L(#$Q($%U9R`R,#`U(#$Q
24 * Stephane Eranian M=&5N="U$:7-P;W-I=CH@:6YL:
21 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 David Mosberger-Tang IA T87(N8V]M QY+51O.B`\,C`P-3`X,3`Q,C0P+D%!
9 * Copyright (C) 1998-2000 David Mosberger-Tang I86T@86YD($UA E=#X*36EM92U697)S:
6 * Copyright (C) 1999 David Mosberger-Tang 2!W96YT(&]U="!O9B!T;W
6 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang H*36EK90H*+2T@"B\M+2TM+2
5 * Copyright (C) 2000 David Mosberger-Tang AyFASqYoMmJPf85ZLO00VrEkvAqK1n
4 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/ QMQuvc4wCoVrwy6nntuCWUv5vqWUNL
4 * David Mosberger
3 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>. 1N8xbkGGHFA6wsn2vg3Sb1CHBPR0xZ
3 http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/680/>.
3 * Copyright (C) 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Copyright (C) 1999-2000 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Authors : Jean Tourrilhes - HPL -
2 Tourrilhes "); QUru8ETk2Tf3OSbyyVmxq7VtCczJDX
2 * Jean Tourrilhes , iy1RF8caRL62intVPcagjsviCAecgp
2 * I (Jean Tourrilhes - jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com) then started to make some
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 * http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html
2 http://www.hp.com/jornada/>. z6mDPHewxRuwEb3zZlqCtOb0d1DbVi
2 * (http://www.hp.com/go/retailbooks/) vnQQAeglPaprGeE8rAUIgCR7tU2Efq
2 Copyright (C) Alex Williamson (alex_williamson@hp.com)
2 * Copyright (C) 2002 Khalid Aziz
2 * Copyright (C) 2001, Jean Tourrilhes
2 * Copyright (C) 2001 Jean Tourrilhes, HP Labs
2 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 Stephane Eranian
1 Weissgaerber , Dag Brattli and Jean Tourrilhes ");
1 * v1.25kf Added No Interrupt on successful Tx for some Tx's
1 This method provided by L. Julliard, Laurent_Julliard@grenoble.hp.com.
1 * Stephen Hack : Fixed ace_set_mac_addr for little
1 * see http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/docs/techpap ers/ia64/slit.pdf
1 report them to linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com, which is the
1 paul_bame@hp.com VkgRelv4ms3ijoXEUIn6x285iE3C4b
1 linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com
1 jt@hpl.hp.com
1 jsm@fc.hp.com Je8cG1SE6M8ckdHjFAHfIi0B6Zm9gy
1 "John Marvin"
1 * John Marvin
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (new version)
1 * Jean Tourrilhes - HPL - 17 November 00
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com),
1 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>
1 http://users.dhp.com/~whisper/ipfwadm2ipchains/
1 (http://software.hp.com/ia64linux/>).
1 handheld computer. See http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/720>
1 grundler@puffin.external.hp.com
1 Grant Grundler
1 * for FAST[+] chipsets.
1 eranian@hpl.hp.com
1 Eranian ");
1 Eranian
1 David Mosberger-Tang
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com if IA-64 related, else David.Mosberger@acm.org
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com z3eXOQku4EcpzW1M5WbfrIbrD4VKxW
1 * , and Jean Tourrilhes
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Bjorn Helgaas
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Alex Williamson
1 *

How much code has HP contributed to the free software community?

A decent amount. Especially for the ia64 port of the Linux kernel. Speaking of the kernel, searching for hp.com yields:

find -type f | xargs egrep -i 'hp\.com'| field 2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr

62 * David Mosberger-Tang ignore, necessary to get around lameness filter M871E.B4:'4L(#$Q($%U9R`R,#`U(#$Q
24 * Stephane Eranian M=&5N="U$:7-P;W-I=CH@:6YL:
21 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 David Mosberger-Tang IA T87(N8V]M QY+51O.B`\,C`P-3`X,3`Q,C0P+D%!
9 * Copyright (C) 1998-2000 David Mosberger-Tang I86T@86YD($UA E=#X*36EM92U697)S:
6 * Copyright (C) 1999 David Mosberger-Tang 2!W96YT(&]U="!O9B!T;W
6 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang H*36EK90H*+2T@"B\M+2TM+2
5 * Copyright (C) 2000 David Mosberger-Tang AyFASqYoMmJPf85ZLO00VrEkvAqK1n
4 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/ QMQuvc4wCoVrwy6nntuCWUv5vqWUNL
4 * David Mosberger
3 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>. 1N8xbkGGHFA6wsn2vg3Sb1CHBPR0xZ
3 http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/680/>.
3 * Copyright (C) 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Copyright (C) 1999-2000 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Authors : Jean Tourrilhes - HPL -
2 Tourrilhes "); QUru8ETk2Tf3OSbyyVmxq7VtCczJDX
2 * Jean Tourrilhes , iy1RF8caRL62intVPcagjsviCAecgp
2 * I (Jean Tourrilhes - jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com) then started to make some
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 * http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html
2 http://www.hp.com/jornada/>. z6mDPHewxRuwEb3zZlqCtOb0d1DbVi
2 * (http://www.hp.com/go/retailbooks/) vnQQAeglPaprGeE8rAUIgCR7tU2Efq
2 Copyright (C) Alex Williamson (alex_williamson@hp.com)
2 * Copyright (C) 2002 Khalid Aziz
2 * Copyright (C) 2001, Jean Tourrilhes
2 * Copyright (C) 2001 Jean Tourrilhes, HP Labs
2 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 Stephane Eranian
1 Weissgaerber , Dag Brattli and Jean Tourrilhes ");
1 * v1.25kf Added No Interrupt on successful Tx for some Tx's
1 This method provided by L. Julliard, Laurent_Julliard@grenoble.hp.com.
1 * Stephen Hack : Fixed ace_set_mac_addr for little
1 * see http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/docs/techpap ers/ia64/slit.pdf
1 report them to linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com, which is the
1 paul_bame@hp.com VkgRelv4ms3ijoXEUIn6x285iE3C4b
1 linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com
1 jt@hpl.hp.com
1 jsm@fc.hp.com Je8cG1SE6M8ckdHjFAHfIi0B6Zm9gy
1 "John Marvin"
1 * John Marvin
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (new version)
1 * Jean Tourrilhes - HPL - 17 November 00
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com),
1 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>
1 http://users.dhp.com/~whisper/ipfwadm2ipchains/
1 (http://software.hp.com/ia64linux/>).
1 handheld computer. See http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/720>
1 grundler@puffin.external.hp.com
1 Grant Grundler
1 * for FAST[+] chipsets.
1 eranian@hpl.hp.com
1 Eranian ");
1 Eranian
1 David Mosberger-Tang
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com if IA-64 related, else David.Mosberger@acm.org
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com z3eXOQku4EcpzW1M5WbfrIbrD4VKxW
1 * , and Jean Tourrilhes
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Bjorn Helgaas
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Alex Williamson
1 *

How much code has HP contributed to the free software community?

A decent amount. Especially for the ia64 port of the Linux kernel. Speaking of the kernel, searching for hp.com yields:

find -type f | xargs egrep -i 'hp\.com'| field 2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr

62 * David Mosberger-Tang ignore, necessary to get around lameness filter M871E.B4:'4L(#$Q($%U9R`R,#`U(#$Q
24 * Stephane Eranian M=&5N="U$:7-P;W-I=CH@:6YL:
21 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 David Mosberger-Tang IA T87(N8V]M QY+51O.B`\,C`P-3`X,3`Q,C0P+D%!
9 * Copyright (C) 1998-2000 David Mosberger-Tang I86T@86YD($UA E=#X*36EM92U697)S:
6 * Copyright (C) 1999 David Mosberger-Tang 2!W96YT(&]U="!O9B!T;W
6 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang H*36EK90H*+2T@"B\M+2TM+2
5 * Copyright (C) 2000 David Mosberger-Tang AyFASqYoMmJPf85ZLO00VrEkvAqK1n
4 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/ QMQuvc4wCoVrwy6nntuCWUv5vqWUNL
4 * David Mosberger
3 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>. 1N8xbkGGHFA6wsn2vg3Sb1CHBPR0xZ
3 http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/680/>.
3 * Copyright (C) 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Copyright (C) 1999-2000 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Authors : Jean Tourrilhes - HPL -
2 Tourrilhes "); QUru8ETk2Tf3OSbyyVmxq7VtCczJDX
2 * Jean Tourrilhes , iy1RF8caRL62intVPcagjsviCAecgp
2 * I (Jean Tourrilhes - jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com) then started to make some
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 * http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html
2 http://www.hp.com/jornada/>. z6mDPHewxRuwEb3zZlqCtOb0d1DbVi
2 * (http://www.hp.com/go/retailbooks/) vnQQAeglPaprGeE8rAUIgCR7tU2Efq
2 Copyright (C) Alex Williamson (alex_williamson@hp.com)
2 * Copyright (C) 2002 Khalid Aziz
2 * Copyright (C) 2001, Jean Tourrilhes
2 * Copyright (C) 2001 Jean Tourrilhes, HP Labs
2 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 Stephane Eranian
1 Weissgaerber , Dag Brattli and Jean Tourrilhes ");
1 * v1.25kf Added No Interrupt on successful Tx for some Tx's
1 This method provided by L. Julliard, Laurent_Julliard@grenoble.hp.com.
1 * Stephen Hack : Fixed ace_set_mac_addr for little
1 * see http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/docs/techpap ers/ia64/slit.pdf
1 report them to linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com, which is the
1 paul_bame@hp.com VkgRelv4ms3ijoXEUIn6x285iE3C4b
1 linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com
1 jt@hpl.hp.com
1 jsm@fc.hp.com Je8cG1SE6M8ckdHjFAHfIi0B6Zm9gy
1 "John Marvin"
1 * John Marvin
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (new version)
1 * Jean Tourrilhes - HPL - 17 November 00
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com),
1 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>
1 http://users.dhp.com/~whisper/ipfwadm2ipchains/
1 (http://software.hp.com/ia64linux/>).
1 handheld computer. See http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/720>
1 grundler@puffin.external.hp.com
1 Grant Grundler
1 * for FAST[+] chipsets.
1 eranian@hpl.hp.com
1 Eranian ");
1 Eranian
1 David Mosberger-Tang
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com if IA-64 related, else David.Mosberger@acm.org
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com z3eXOQku4EcpzW1M5WbfrIbrD4VKxW
1 * , and Jean Tourrilhes
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Bjorn Helgaas
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Alex Williamson
1 *

How much code has HP contributed to the free software community?

A decent amount. Especially for the ia64 port of the Linux kernel. Speaking of the kernel, searching for hp.com yields:

find -type f | xargs egrep -i 'hp\.com'| field 2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr

62 * David Mosberger-Tang ignore, necessary to get around lameness filter M871E.B4:'4L(#$Q($%U9R`R,#`U(#$Q
24 * Stephane Eranian M=&5N="U$:7-P;W-I=CH@:6YL:
21 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 David Mosberger-Tang IA T87(N8V]M QY+51O.B`\,C`P-3`X,3`Q,C0P+D%!
9 * Copyright (C) 1998-2000 David Mosberger-Tang I86T@86YD($UA E=#X*36EM92U697)S:
6 * Copyright (C) 1999 David Mosberger-Tang 2!W96YT(&]U="!O9B!T;W
6 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang H*36EK90H*+2T@"B\M+2TM+2
5 * Copyright (C) 2000 David Mosberger-Tang AyFASqYoMmJPf85ZLO00VrEkvAqK1n
4 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/ QMQuvc4wCoVrwy6nntuCWUv5vqWUNL
4 * David Mosberger
3 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>. 1N8xbkGGHFA6wsn2vg3Sb1CHBPR0xZ
3 http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/680/>.
3 * Copyright (C) 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Copyright (C) 1999-2000 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Authors : Jean Tourrilhes - HPL -
2 Tourrilhes "); QUru8ETk2Tf3OSbyyVmxq7VtCczJDX
2 * Jean Tourrilhes , iy1RF8caRL62intVPcagjsviCAecgp
2 * I (Jean Tourrilhes - jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com) then started to make some
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 * http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html
2 http://www.hp.com/jornada/>. z6mDPHewxRuwEb3zZlqCtOb0d1DbVi
2 * (http://www.hp.com/go/retailbooks/) vnQQAeglPaprGeE8rAUIgCR7tU2Efq
2 Copyright (C) Alex Williamson (alex_williamson@hp.com)
2 * Copyright (C) 2002 Khalid Aziz
2 * Copyright (C) 2001, Jean Tourrilhes
2 * Copyright (C) 2001 Jean Tourrilhes, HP Labs
2 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 Stephane Eranian
1 Weissgaerber , Dag Brattli and Jean Tourrilhes ");
1 * v1.25kf Added No Interrupt on successful Tx for some Tx's
1 This method provided by L. Julliard, Laurent_Julliard@grenoble.hp.com.
1 * Stephen Hack : Fixed ace_set_mac_addr for little
1 * see http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/docs/techpap ers/ia64/slit.pdf
1 report them to linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com, which is the
1 paul_bame@hp.com VkgRelv4ms3ijoXEUIn6x285iE3C4b
1 linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com
1 jt@hpl.hp.com
1 jsm@fc.hp.com Je8cG1SE6M8ckdHjFAHfIi0B6Zm9gy
1 "John Marvin"
1 * John Marvin
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (new version)
1 * Jean Tourrilhes - HPL - 17 November 00
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com),
1 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>
1 http://users.dhp.com/~whisper/ipfwadm2ipchains/
1 (http://software.hp.com/ia64linux/>).
1 handheld computer. See http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/720>
1 grundler@puffin.external.hp.com
1 Grant Grundler
1 * for FAST[+] chipsets.
1 eranian@hpl.hp.com
1 Eranian ");
1 Eranian
1 David Mosberger-Tang
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com if IA-64 related, else David.Mosberger@acm.org
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com z3eXOQku4EcpzW1M5WbfrIbrD4VKxW
1 * , and Jean Tourrilhes
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Bjorn Helgaas
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Alex Williamson
1 *

How much code has HP contributed to the free software community?

A decent amount. Especially for the ia64 port of the Linux kernel. Speaking of the kernel, searching for hp.com yields:

find -type f | xargs egrep -i 'hp\.com'| field 2- | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr

62 * David Mosberger-Tang ignore, necessary to get around lameness filter M871E.B4:'4L(#$Q($%U9R`R,#`U(#$Q
24 * Stephane Eranian M=&5N="U$:7-P;W-I=CH@:6YL:
21 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 David Mosberger-Tang IA T87(N8V]M QY+51O.B`\,C`P-3`X,3`Q,C0P+D%!
9 * Copyright (C) 1998-2000 David Mosberger-Tang I86T@86YD($UA E=#X*36EM92U697)S:
6 * Copyright (C) 1999 David Mosberger-Tang 2!W96YT(&]U="!O9B!T;W
6 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang H*36EK90H*+2T@"B\M+2TM+2
5 * Copyright (C) 2000 David Mosberger-Tang AyFASqYoMmJPf85ZLO00VrEkvAqK1n
4 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/ QMQuvc4wCoVrwy6nntuCWUv5vqWUNL
4 * David Mosberger
3 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>. 1N8xbkGGHFA6wsn2vg3Sb1CHBPR0xZ
3 http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/680/>.
3 * Copyright (C) 1999, 2001 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Copyright (C) 1999-2000 David Mosberger-Tang
3 * Authors : Jean Tourrilhes - HPL -
2 Tourrilhes "); QUru8ETk2Tf3OSbyyVmxq7VtCczJDX
2 * Jean Tourrilhes , iy1RF8caRL62intVPcagjsviCAecgp
2 * I (Jean Tourrilhes - jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com) then started to make some
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 * http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Wavelan.html
2 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html
2 http://www.hp.com/jornada/>. z6mDPHewxRuwEb3zZlqCtOb0d1DbVi
2 * (http://www.hp.com/go/retailbooks/) vnQQAeglPaprGeE8rAUIgCR7tU2Efq
2 Copyright (C) Alex Williamson (alex_williamson@hp.com)
2 * Copyright (C) 2002 Khalid Aziz
2 * Copyright (C) 2001, Jean Tourrilhes
2 * Copyright (C) 2001 Jean Tourrilhes, HP Labs
2 * Copyright (C) 1998, 1999 Stephane Eranian
1 Weissgaerber , Dag Brattli and Jean Tourrilhes ");
1 * v1.25kf Added No Interrupt on successful Tx for some Tx's
1 This method provided by L. Julliard, Laurent_Julliard@grenoble.hp.com.
1 * Stephen Hack : Fixed ace_set_mac_addr for little
1 * see http://devresource.hp.com/devresource/docs/techpap ers/ia64/slit.pdf
1 report them to linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com, which is the
1 paul_bame@hp.com VkgRelv4ms3ijoXEUIn6x285iE3C4b
1 linux_udf@hpesjro.fc.hp.com
1 jt@hpl.hp.com
1 jsm@fc.hp.com Je8cG1SE6M8ckdHjFAHfIi0B6Zm9gy
1 "John Marvin"
1 * John Marvin
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (new version)
1 * Jean Tourrilhes - HPL - 17 November 00
1 * Jean Tourrilhes (jt@hplb.hpl.hp.com),
1 http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Lin ux/Tools.html>
1 http://users.dhp.com/~whisper/ipfwadm2ipchains/
1 (http://software.hp.com/ia64linux/>).
1 handheld computer. See http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/720>
1 grundler@puffin.external.hp.com
1 Grant Grundler
1 * for FAST[+] chipsets.
1 eranian@hpl.hp.com
1 Eranian ");
1 Eranian
1 David Mosberger-Tang
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com if IA-64 related, else David.Mosberger@acm.org
1 davidm@hpl.hp.com z3eXOQku4EcpzW1M5WbfrIbrD4VKxW
1 * , and Jean Tourrilhes
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Bjorn Helgaas
1 * Copyright (C) 2002 Alex Williamson
1 *

where is hp's example of following said request?

After HPIJS 1.0.1 the driver uses a BSD license. HPIJS 1.0 and below uses a BSD type license with a "HP product only" clause.

After HPIJS 1.0.1 the driver uses a BSD license. HPIJS 1.0 and below uses a BSD type license with a "HP product only" clause.

when all of hp's new hardware is linux compatible, i'll quit ignoring their lip service. they don't have to support linux on the hardware. just don't use linux hostile components. for example, the broadcom wireless chipset in the lance armstrong special edition notebook.

btw, they lost at least one sale because of it.

http://www.hp.com/products1/unix/operating/

The HP-UX 11i Operating System license provides the right to use the software as described in these QuickSpecs, and is furnished under the licensing of Hewlett-Packard's Standard Terms and Conditions. Licenses for prior versions must be updated to this version either through the purchase of a Service Agreement that includes the rights-to-use new versions, or through the purchase of Update Licenses.

HP-UX 11i Operating Environment Per-Processor License, purchase separately: B9089AC
HP-UX 11i Enterprise Operating Environment, purchase separately from hardware: B9091AC
HP-UX 11i Enterprise to M/C OE upgrade Per-Processor License: B9094AC
HP-UX 11i Mission-Critical OE Per-Processor License, purchase separately: B9093AC

I said that the Linux/FreeDOS models were the business PC's and they start at under $400.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/1245 4-64287-89301-321860-f50-401819.html

I never said that the cheapest models were availabe with Linux, I just pointed out that the original Boycott post was full of crap when he said that HP, Dell, Gateway are "refusing to offer CONSUMERS a non-Microsoft choice".

It's pretty tiring to keep hearing all the whining about the fact that a high-demand, volume product is cheaper than a low-demand niche product - Duh!

It's also pretty stupid to to claim that there is no competition (for hardware) or that it is difficult to get computer hardware with no OS. With the enourmous amount of hardware available online, plus the clones shops in strip malls every 5 miles in all major cities, there is absolutely no excuse for not being able to get the PC hardware you want.

If you want all of this, plus a name brand, you have to pay a bit more for it, but not much more. In fact the reason the name brand PC's are as cheap as they are is because there is SO MUCH PC hardware available - So what's the problem?!?!?

If you resent the way the big PC hardware companies do business, then why would you want their name brand logo on your PC in the first place?

HP offers its cheapest machines as Windows only.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/generic _category.do?catLevel=1&storeName=computer_store&t emplate_type=computer_store&landing=desktops&categ ory=hp_pavilion&aoid=1425

Do your homework...

HP offers nearly every model of their business desktops and a few models of business notebooks with either FreeDOS or Linux:

Examples:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/1245 4-64287-89301-321860-f49.html
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/3219 57-64295-89315-321838-f33.html

And no complaining that these are not "consumer" products - You try and convince Best Buy to carry a product that they won't sell any of.

Easy to find - Google: "desktop linux site:hp.com"

Easy to buy - point, click, ship

I'm pretty sure Dell also has linux models, but their site sucks, so I can't find them.

Do your homework...

HP offers nearly every model of their business desktops and a few models of business notebooks with either FreeDOS or Linux:

Examples:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/1245 4-64287-89301-321860-f49.html
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/3219 57-64295-89315-321838-f33.html

And no complaining that these are not "consumer" products - You try and convince Best Buy to carry a product that they won't sell any of.

Easy to find - Google: "desktop linux site:hp.com"

Easy to buy - point, click, ship

I'm pretty sure Dell also has linux models, but their site sucks, so I can't find them.

Modern printer heads consist of about 300 - 500 of these little cracks for ink to seap out

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/feature_stories/ 2005/05scalableprint.html

Recently, I needed a USB cable. I was aghast to discover pricing of $25 to $40 for a simple cable!!!! UG. Best Buy, Circuit City, even Sears had these prices. I know from my cable-making days (Good 'old RS-232 hand-soldered connections!) this was wrong.

Turned out http://hp.com/ had the cheapest ones, at about $3 each. http://pricegrabber.com/ did that for me. Don't get fooled.

Best as I can figure, the chain stores know you need a cable and can gouge you because usually you need it right now, and lots of people don't know how to shop online (yeah, sad, ain't it?).

Slides and Video.

No, they stopped designing new calculators. Look at their press releases, you'll see the last model announcment was 15 months ago, and even that was little more than a redesign of an older model.

http://www.hp.com/calculators/press.html

HP stoped making calculators? Maybe for 1 year.

But look at this....

http://www.hp.com/calculators/

On a tangent, where have you seen AMD64 MBs that support 64GB of RAM ? I've been thinking about using something like that for getting really good performance for a relatively big DB app, but all MBs I've seen have just 4 banks, and the biggest chips are 4MB. I guess a dual proc would double that :)

I have not seen any Opteron system which would require less than four processors to go to 64GB. Most bare motherboard makers I have seen have a max of 32GB even with their quad Opteron boards.

Here is a HP Proliant which will go to 64GB.

One thing I have noticed with boards that can take lots of RAM (32GB+), is that the higher you go, the slower the speed of the RAM is run at. It is very apparent with that HP. I guess there are so many memory modules in a 64GB system that they can't be reliably powered at full speed. Or maybe they put so much load on each of their busses that they bring the signals down closer to the noise and thus can't run at highest frequencies. Might be something to consider if you can get away with 16GB. Otherwise, regardless of this a 60 something GB ramdisk for a db is going to scream. You'll want a super reliable system with redundant power supplies! I guess at least the Gigabyte ramdisk card won't have trouble there, being battery backed.

Also on a related note, anyone know if it is possible in a disk mirroring setup, to use a ramdisk and a real disk in such a way that reads and writes are done only to the ramdisk and the real hard disk is merely written to to keep up to date at a lower priority? Super speed and redundancy. I have been wanting to do this with software mirroring between a software ramdisk and a real disk. Probably would be good for an SMP system, since ramdisks are heavy on CPU when they're in use (with software mirroring adding to that).

Actually, here is a 4-way (optional 8-way) Tyan Opteron board that will go to 128GB! It seems that it will go to 64GB with 4 procs.

Not the newest "comparably priced branded PCs" like the HP Pavilion a1010y and the Compaq Presario SR1010Z. They use the same integrated graphics (Intel GMA 900) that's working so well in Apple's Intel developer Macs. Quartz seems to work very well sharing system and video memory through PCI Express.

Not the newest "comparably priced branded PCs" like the HP Pavilion a1010y and the Compaq Presario SR1010Z. They use the same integrated graphics (Intel GMA 900) that's working so well in Apple's Intel developer Macs. Quartz seems to work very well sharing system and video memory through PCI Express.

HP sells a number of notebook PC running AMD Sempron, Athlon 64 and Turion 64 processors. They also appear to be moderately priced (even for the 64 turion.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/compute r_series.do?series_name=ze2000z_series&catLevel=2& category=notebooks/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_ store

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/compute r_series.do?series_name=zv6000_series&catLevel=2&c ategory=notebooks/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_s tore

Hack-a-way!

HP sells a number of notebook PC running AMD Sempron, Athlon 64 and Turion 64 processors. They also appear to be moderately priced (even for the 64 turion.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/compute r_series.do?series_name=ze2000z_series&catLevel=2& category=notebooks/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_ store

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/compute r_series.do?series_name=zv6000_series&catLevel=2&c ategory=notebooks/hp_pavilion&storeName=computer_s tore

Hack-a-way!

The OS is very cool technology, it's too bad it's not more widely used. All the processes are redundant pairs with checkpointing. Definitely a different world, but very cool.

"Why Do Computers Stop and What Can Be Done About It?"
http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/tandem/TR-85.7.h tml describes the methodology.

that you may be able to now use Linux-based tools for development and the cross-compiler

HP already have more than a little experience with just what you describe

"The book ia-64 linux kernel by David Mosberger and Stephane Eranian was extremely helpful"

from: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/

in this (very instructive) article: "Porting OpenVMS to HP Integrity Servers"

(Integrity is one line below Superdome, both Itanium - based. Superdome IA-64 is just coming together now.)

hmm, 'kay that doesn't mean they used Linux tools, but it does mean they are sitting on some very recent and very applicable knowledge.

Not being a fan of Linux, for historical reasons, as much as other more practical ones, i nonetheless truly appreciate how OSS just affected positively one of the most closed - source OSs still out there.

(okay, VMS used to be available with source on microfiche, but that's not my point)

Absolute crap : "They have long touted HP-UX as their non-stop platform,"

find me just one use of their trademark Non-Stop in a linux blurb.

this is modded up?

"but this seems to me somewhat as a concession that it, well, sucks and they need something more adoptable by the mainstream."

aha, really? Tandem was mainstream? Alpha was mainstream?

- cough - Itanium is mainstream?

Compaq/HP/Intel (plus contractors) ran some pretty awesome porting to get VMS and Tandem up on Itanium. This ain't "mainstream" unless you don't look outside of a fp (or stream) constrained / brokerage / medicare / financial op.

HP do tout "open" standards - see: http://h20223.www2.hp.com/NonStopComputing/cache/8 2866-0-0-0-121.html

what you ARE right about, however is that Superdome is very good kit. What else runs Windows, HP-UX, Tru-64, Linux, VMS and Tandem on the same machine, on Aplha or Itanium, let alone allows dymanic partitioning and even (limited) cross- os clustering inside the same chassis?

bringing Linux to the mix makes sense. Lots of sense. More than the linked "article"! :)

Given the state of Tru-64 / HP-UX development, adopting Linux might make more sense now for HP. Adding decent clustering (iirc the VMS team worked on the Tru-64 features) to the mix would make a ton of sense. Tru-64 long lost its lustre in the HPC market (sadly), and the revised HP-UX dropped most of the good features, post "os-merger". So coming out with a clean linux base, with clusters, distributed FS . . .

well at least that might put SGI out of business with the Altix . . .

don't mean to be harsh, but "mainstream" and the whole context of the discussion do not go together.

If Linux can be virtualised under Tandem (and my apologies to all as i know VMS not Tandem) then maybe HP is aiming to consolidate hardware share by allowing Linux to replace data warehousing replication for fast market analysis . . .

== Idle Random Thoughts. Usual Disclaimers Apply ==

i guess they will have to spare money where they can... but seriously who would hire some one who has no background in computers and "has a bachelor's degree in medieval history and philosophy from Stanford University." 2 things that really dont have much to pertain to HP's field of deployment... that and you gotta love that she "was named an honorary fellow of the London Business School in July 2001. In 2002, she was honored with the Appeal of Conscience Award, and in 2003 she received the Concern Worldwide "Seeds of Hope" Award in recognition of her worldwide efforts to make global citizenship a priority for business." seriously if i was a computer oriented business there would be no way i would hire her as my Chairman and Chief Executive Officer... that would be committing business suicide... what if u look at HP's stock it pretty much was since she was hired 5 years ago and now that she was caned the stock is going back up again... oh well fire the ones who can save you and keep the ones who have failed you... thats how the world works... look at our president... http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/bios/fiorina.htm l

HP's not in the blue-sky R&D business, and hasn't been for many years now.

Not true at all. I worked for HP Labs last summer in their Information Dynamics Lab. Much of the research that this group, and others that I'm personally aware of, does is of a distinctly speculative nature and doesn't directly lead to a product. This is fine by HP, because pure research generally pays off in one way or another in the long run.

Corporate blue-sky R&D doesn't generally make the papers until it's no longer blue-sky, i.e., just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it's not there. If you want to know who's doing research, try reading the scientific literature instead, .

Your story "HP FIres Father of OOP" is the tip of the iceburg. In the link from that article, it claims that the Cambridge Research Lab is also closing. This Lab was not just into Health and Wellness, but supported the open source community. Take a look at their people section:

http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/crl/

Jim Gettys the author of the X Windows System.
Keith Packard the founder of FreeDesktop.
All the founders and supporters of handhelds.org.

The open source community is going to be hit hard by this one. These are people that will be missed.

The Cambridge Research Lab was the last living ember of Digital Equipment Corps Lab. These are the folks that created alta vista, speechbot.com, jukebox (ipod), etc...

Check out the old DEC website and compare the projects:

http://www.crl.hpl.hp.com/

The difference in the spirit of the web sites says it all. The HP site looks cold and dead. The DEC site is alive.

Your story "HP FIres Father of OOP" is the tip of the iceburg. In the link from that article, it claims that the Cambridge Research Lab is also closing. This Lab was not just into Health and Wellness, but supported the open source community. Take a look at their people section:

http://www.hpl.hp.com/research/crl/

Jim Gettys the author of the X Windows System.
Keith Packard the founder of FreeDesktop.
All the founders and supporters of handhelds.org.

The open source community is going to be hit hard by this one. These are people that will be missed.

The Cambridge Research Lab was the last living ember of Digital Equipment Corps Lab. These are the folks that created alta vista, speechbot.com, jukebox (ipod), etc...

Check out the old DEC website and compare the projects:

http://www.crl.hpl.hp.com/

The difference in the spirit of the web sites says it all. The HP site looks cold and dead. The DEC site is alive.

HP doesn't just do inkjets, have a look at these, and no you can't just throw some linux blades and get the same thing. HP-UX may be a tad slow, but it's rock solid.

They still have openings: Careers @ HP Labs: 2005 recruiting for interns, post docs and general researchers"


;)

the HP bio on Alan Kay

Especially appropriate, now that the mother of "Oops!" is out of the picture.

Why not start with a real operating system that already comes with both features? VMS (also known as OpenVMS) version 8.2 was released a few months ago and runs on VAX, Alpha and Itanium. You should be able to find a fairly cheap VMS machine at sites like eBay. For hobbyists and educational purposes the VMS license is available at no charge. Have a look at http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/ http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/ http://www.openvmsedu.com/ news:comp.os.vms

That said, I haven't seen a really good way to manage permissions. It's just not practical for an applet to say, "In order to run this, you need these 47 permissions" and expect you to fix that. With cleverness the modeler could create roles with aggregates of permissions, so that you can say, "This app needs access to your browser UI" (like Tabbrowser).

I find it interesting that every application has to wrestle with these problems time and time again, instead of them being solved by the operating system. The reason for all this trouble is that the Access Control List security model is inherently flawed.

Using ACLs makes us adjust permissions per user basis, while it is not the user who does (good or evil) things with the computer but the processes running on behalf of the user. Thus an application can (be tricked to) do malicious things with the user's full permissions - as if the user himself was actively and knowingly destroying his data, sending it over to an eavesdropper, etc. A correct approach would be to grant permissions to do a certain operation on a certain resource per process basis. This is what the capability based security is all about. (If I am mistaken, I hope someone more enlightened in CAP theory will correct me).

I am amazed that none of the popular operating systems implement capability based security models, since they would eliminate Confused Deputy Problems like this.

Some random links relating to Capability based security:

• A cool tech demo of what capability based security would mean in a desktop setting
• Granma's Rules of POLA
• Split Capabilities for Access Control - an interesting implementation from HP
• A discussion of ACLs and their problems, with links to CAP related pages

Whatever. Unix has been on 64+ CPUs for a long time now. Is anyone selling an NT machine that comes close?

Um, yes.

Second quarter profit 1.3 Billion. See http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quart ers/2005/q2.html "HP had a solid quarter," said Mark Hurd, HP chief executive officer and president. "We grew revenue 7%, non-GAAP earnings per share rose 9% and we generated $2.4 billion in cash flow from operations.

First quarter profit 1.3 Billion. See http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quart ers/2005/q1.html

Tell me please. If it is making over a billion per quarter in profit, why will they fire people who made it happen?

Second quarter profit 1.3 Billion. See http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quart ers/2005/q2.html "HP had a solid quarter," said Mark Hurd, HP chief executive officer and president. "We grew revenue 7%, non-GAAP earnings per share rose 9% and we generated $2.4 billion in cash flow from operations.

First quarter profit 1.3 Billion. See http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/investor/financials/quart ers/2005/q1.html

Tell me please. If it is making over a billion per quarter in profit, why will they fire people who made it happen?