Domain: laptop.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to laptop.org.
Comments · 702
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Re:It's just the usual Trusted Computing fallacyI am one of the most vocal opponents of Trusted Computing around. Trusted Computing is evil, and far more dangerous of a threat than even most opponents realize. I am a programmer, I have read the full (several hundred pages) Trusted Platform Module technical specifications, and I have read the detailed OLPC security document.
Your fear of the OLPC security design is thankfully misplaced. I was quite impressed by it. I read through it with with my tinfoil hat firmly in place, and I was pleasantly surprised at how thoroughly evil-free it was. They really did design the system for students to become programmers and write their own software. Programs absolutely do *not* require a signature to run. To quote the OLPC security system document:the scenario where a child develops some software and wishes to share it with her friends becomes a natural one, and one that needs to be well-supported.
Simply by going to the built-in security panel, they can unlock, copy, and re-write the entire operating system. They can do so AT WILL. All they have to do is engage the P_SF_RUN flag. The original operating system is still stored in the background, but any change to the operating system becomes the new and "permanent" OS. The next time you boot up, you boot up into your new customized operating system. If you disengage the P_SF_RUN flag from the security panel, you go back to the stored copy of the original operating system.
The only part of the system that they are locked out of... the only part of the system they can't unlock themselves and rewrite at will... are the BIOS and the backup copy of the original operating system. However they do allow kids to request a developer key. This key allows them to overwrite the BIOS itself. (It also obviously allows you to modify or wipe the backup copy of the original operating system.) The only limitation is that the developer key only unlocks the single computer... you can't write a virus and use your key to unlock and overwrite the BIOS on everyone else's computers.
And even if you don't have a developer key, most of the security aspects embedded in the BIOS can be overridden from the security panel.
About the only thing that can't ultimately be overridden is the security point that the built-in microphone and the built-in video camera are physically hardwired to LEDs to reveal when they are active. Unless you crack the case and physically cut the wire, there will always be a warning light when the microphone or camera are active.
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I would also like to clear up some unfortunately common misunderstandings about Trusted Computing. Trusted Computing is as evil as all hell, it's just not evil in the way many people think that it is evil.
programs are going to need to be "signed" by an "authority" before they can be executed.
The minute you actually grant your "appliance" Turing Completeness, you've lost its Trusted Computing properties.
Untrue, and untrue. Software does not need to be signed to run on a Trusted Computer. A Trusted Computer can and will run any software you ask it to run. A Trusted Computer can do anything and everything a normal computer can do.
Think about it.... the first and foremost goal of the Trusted Computing movement is Global Conquest... to displace normal computers. No one would would ever move to a Trusted Computer if it couldn't run the vast library of existing software. No one would move to a Trusted Computer if it were virtually impossible for anyone to write new software for it.
If this myth were true... if Trusted Computers only ran signed software... then the entire movement would be dead in the water. Trusted Computing would be NO THREAT AT ALL. The fact that Trusted Computers can run unsigned software, the fact that Trusted Computers can do anything and everything a normal computer can do, that doesn't mean they are n -
There are things in the spec I object to...
Wow, I read the whole FA. I must be new here.
Seriously, I agree with most their findings and strategies to mitigate the risks of theft, lost privacy, etc. I also find it noteworthy that the Mic and Cam both have a direct wired LED to indicate activation of said components, where the LED can not be turned on/off by software at all. Thus eavesdropping becomes evident. The spec is a nice read and most points Ivan makes are (from my standpoint) well thought through and sensible for the environment in which the XO is to be deployed.
What I object against though, is point 8.12 (P_X) of the spec. As I understand it, as long as you happen to be in possession of a "trusted" key to the machine (which will certainly be OLPC and the government of the child in posession of the XO) you may eavesdrop on any resource of the X window system as you see fit? Correct me if I am wrong, but AFAIK the X protocol was never designed with security in mind. So sending commands to another program might also impicitly mean the ability to check the state of that program.
Would any X expert please confirm or dismiss this, as I can't becase I'm no X expert myself. -
Origin/rationale for nameFrom the spec linked from the article, section 11:
1227 In Norse mythology, Bifrost is the bridge which keeps mortals, inhabitants of
1228 the realm of Midgard, from venturing into Asgard, the realm of the gods. In
1229 effect, Bifrost is a powerful security system designed to keep out unwanted
1230 intruders.
1231
1232 This is not why the OLPC security platform's name is a play on the name of the
1233 mythical bridge, however. What's particularly interesting about Bifrost is a
1234 story that 12th century Icelandic historian and poet Snorri Sturluson tells in
1235 the first part of his poetics manual called the Prose Edda. Here is the
1236 relevant excerpt from the 1916 translation by Arthur Gilchrist Brodeur:
1237
1238 Then said Gangleri: "What is the way to heaven from earth?"
1239
1240 Then Harr answered, and laughed aloud: "Now, that is not wisely asked; has
1241 it not been told thee, that the gods made a bridge from earth, to heaven,
1242 called Bifrost? Thou must have seen it; it may be that ye call it rainbow.'
1243 It is of three colors, and very strong, and made with cunning and with more
1244 magic art than other works of craftsmanship. But strong as it is, yet must
1245 it be broken, when the sons of Muspell shall go forth harrying and ride it,
1246 and swim their horses over great rivers; thus they shall proceed."
1247
1248 Then said Gangleri: "To my thinking the gods did not build the bridge
1249 honestly, seeing that it could be broken, and they able to make it as they
1250 would."
1251
1252 Then Harr replied: "The gods are not deserving of reproof because of this
1253 work of skill: a good bridge is Bifrost, but nothing in this world is of
1254 such nature that it may be relied on when the sons of Muspell go
1255 a-harrying."
1256
1257 This story is quite remarkable, as it amounts to a 13th century recognition of
1258 the idea that there's no such thing as a perfect security system. -
Should have been in the summary:
The two links given in the summary give an overview of the goals of the security system; the actual details are at http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=security;a=blob;hb
= HEAD;f=bitfrost.txt -
Re:not bright enough
Just to piss you off... someone at MiT do have a solution for your problem...
No, this is not a troll nor flamebait... except the performance (and Windows-key) this project do have an answer for most problems addressed by rugged laptops... -
Re:Right, what connectivity do they have?OLPC is a very useful tool to education: being able to Google or Wikipedia for farming information Would that be over the 1gbit fibre that the African telcos are running out to the farming villages? Bare minimum: a mesh network with their peers. No Google or Wikipedia here: but basic chatting, email, sharing between locals.
Next step: a local server for shared resources. Part of the mesh. Basically an OLPC with extra storage: snapshots of sites like Wikipedia, e-books, locally produced content, homepages and blogs, etc.
Next step: non-local connectivity, however basic. Ranges from something like Motorman, or maybe a scheduled dialup, right up always-on, depending on circumstances.
The point is, something (however modest) is better than nothing. -
Linux as BIOS and Windows as OS?
The OLPC has a LinuxBIOS but it would be able to run Windows as well (and it probably will [1]). If the Linux community was really pushing Linux to gain market share wouldn't you expect a dramatic increase in activity on edu.kde.org by now?
There would also be some larger development projects to be done. (How about some educational games like Genius - Task Force Biologie, Chemicus II - die versunkene Stadt, Mathica for the OLPC, using Wikipedia articles as the knowledge part of the game?)
Of course it probably doesn't matter much if Microsoft offers a more or less free copy of Windows for the OLPC or Linux is used as the OS.
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The OLPC is cool.
I've been following this project for a while (meta-blog here. Aside from the innovative hardware (especially with the screen and mesh network), I've been intrigued with the bizarre GUI, called Sugar (review of HIG here. It's a freaky interface that goes way beyond the traditional desktop metaphor where you run "applications" and save things in "files".
Best of all, soon kids in 3rd world countries will be able to annoy the crap out of their parents with funky casio beats. -
The OLPC is cool.
I've been following this project for a while (meta-blog here. Aside from the innovative hardware (especially with the screen and mesh network), I've been intrigued with the bizarre GUI, called Sugar (review of HIG here. It's a freaky interface that goes way beyond the traditional desktop metaphor where you run "applications" and save things in "files".
Best of all, soon kids in 3rd world countries will be able to annoy the crap out of their parents with funky casio beats. -
The OLPC is cool.
I've been following this project for a while (meta-blog here. Aside from the innovative hardware (especially with the screen and mesh network), I've been intrigued with the bizarre GUI, called Sugar (review of HIG here. It's a freaky interface that goes way beyond the traditional desktop metaphor where you run "applications" and save things in "files".
Best of all, soon kids in 3rd world countries will be able to annoy the crap out of their parents with funky casio beats. -
Re:Books vs Music/Movies - No comparison
Which is why all the decent e-book readers mysteriously fail to reach the market. In all the last 15 years, since the invention of e-ink, dozens of companies have attempted to make viable e-book readers and been quashed by patents or by the copyright owners who have demanded that the product include draconian DRM. The OLPC, intended to (eventually) sell at US$100 per unit, has a 1200 (H) x 900 (V) resolution (200 dpi) display which is readable in direct sunlight. That is what you need to comfortably read a book. That, or e-ink, with even higher dpi. These things are clearly not expensive, where are they? The OLPC shows what engineers can do when they are able to stop thinking about what will make the most money, and just try to make something great.
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Re:So uncoolThat's not a matter of not needing Windows, that's a matter of someone not needing a desktop PC at all. I'm still curious why we are still years away from practical products like this.
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TamTam
You've totally gotta check out TamTam, the PyGTK C-sound based music tracker included with OLPC.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/TamTam
It's not done yet, but will be very soon due to necessity. -
About the size of a Spectrum
Those of us who cut our teeth on an earlier generation of personal computers will know exactly what typing on one of these will feel like, especially when you read the words "1.2mm stroke sealed rubber-membrane key-switch assembly"...
OLPC Dimensions: W193mm × D229mm × 64mm
(from http://wiki.laptop.org/wiki/Hardware_specification )
ZX Spectrum Dimensions: Width 233mm Depth 144mm Height 30mm
(from http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/zxspectr um/spec_technical.htm) -
Re:One of the more interesting ideas
Yes, I meant see the red, green, and blue pixels. I've read all that I can find about the screen on the Internet but some things are still unclear; perhaps you know the answers?. Is the mono screen in front of or behind the colour one, i.e. is the colour one effectively transparent when not in use if it's in front, or does the mono one help improve the colour one's apparent resolution if it's in front.
Basically, some diagrams or close-up pics seem to be lacking. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification says the effective resolution is very complex to explain and Mary Lou Jepson is planning to write up an explanation. -
Re:Well, which is it?
> So the OLPC has WiFi?
Yes (http://www.laptop.org/faq.en_US.html, "The laptops will have wireless broadband that, among other things, allows them to work as a mesh network;") -
Re:Chanel Conflict...
What do you mean, "derivative?" All they need to do to is use a different color plastic for the case on the commercial version.
Well, here's what the OLPC Wiki says:
Retail Sales on the Open Market
This part of the model is currently not clearly defined. Firstly, it is not something that OLPC itself will do either now or in the future. However, there will be retail sales of 2B1 or similar models. This will happen sometime after the initial country rollouts when the manufacturers are comfortable enough with production on a large scale. At that point, there will be a process for retail sales channels to licence the design and contract for it to be manufactured targeted directly at the retail market. Given the expectation of volume shipments of educational units in the summer of 2007, it is unlikely for retail sales to begin before 2008.
Initially, this is likely to be for units virtually identical to 2B1 targetted solely at the educational market in North America and Western Europe. But the design will be available for licensing to companies who want to produce a device for the open market. Before this will happen, the OLPC will review their licencing terms to determine what special restrictions may need to be placed on open sale of these laptops. This is done in order to protect the educational deployments which are, and will remain, the primary focus of the OLPC.
Any restrictions will be designed to limit the possibility of educational units being diverted to the open market. This likely means that the case styles will be different and that units may have some enhanced capabilities such as built-in Ethernet, extra flash RAM or it may be required that they are bundled with one or more accessories. -
Re:Go through your state
Massachusetts is apparently on the list of interested entities, so there is a precedent.
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Go through your stateIf I could convince a parent, teacher, principal, or school board to buy OLPC computers with the added benefit of outfitting a student, class, school, or school board in the developing world at the same time... FANTASTIC! Partners in a global community. Where do I sign up?
Ask your school board and other school boards in the neighboring districts, and then show your state's[1] school regulators that there is interest. I'm not sure what the process is for a state government to apply for the program.
[1] "State" refers to a sovereign entity or political subdivision with at least a million K-12 students.
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Re:Yeah, give them Sugar!
Don't bash Sugar from the meager videos you've seen; you need to actually try it to see what it's like. I watched the Google video and immediately hated the interface as well, but it's a very different experience when you actually sit down in front of it and use it.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_images_for_emulation
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Instructions
Before commenting on what you think it will be like, please try it first. -
Re:Yeah, give them Sugar!
Don't bash Sugar from the meager videos you've seen; you need to actually try it to see what it's like. I watched the Google video and immediately hated the interface as well, but it's a very different experience when you actually sit down in front of it and use it.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OS_images_for_emulation
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Instructions
Before commenting on what you think it will be like, please try it first. -
Size Comparison
Here's a size comparison to an ordinary laptop:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:AP1_39.jpg
The thing is tiny. It is not meant for adults, especially not ones with aging eyes and arthritic fingers. -
Re:Good present for grandparents as well?It might run OOo, I don't know. It might if it had more memory. Abi-Word is the word-processor offered as standard, but what I do know is that it is much smaller than a normal laptop. It has been specially designed for child-sized hands. An adult, particularly somebody who could touch-type, would find the tiny keyboad absolutely infuriating.
The other point is that without the wireless mesh, an access-point and an internet connected server on the other end of the radio link its functionality would be serverely compromised.
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Re:Good present for grandparents as well?
Abiword is already running on it, albeit with a simplified interface. You can download the image for the OLPC OS and give it a go, it's very easy to do. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Instructions#Inst
a llingI actually find the interface a little non-intuitive for the beginning user, which I find at odds with it's goals. The documentation itself states
Before you launch the emulated image, we strongly recommend reading through the Sugar Instructions on how to use the environment -- this does not look like the Windows or Mac operating systems!Essentially you start with a blank screen, to launch a program you move the mouse to edge of the screen which brings up the program bar. It seems to me it would have made a little more sense for the program bar to be active by default (at least when no programs are currently active). Or at least a little "Start here arrow" for the first few boots."
While I'm being critical, I'd also change the Abiword icon to look more relevant to a pen and paper activity (It's currently the AbiWord logo), and rejig the web icon to be a bit of a more obvious globe.
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Re:Good present for grandparents as well?
Interesting idea, though it is rather Fisher-Price in appearance.
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Re:worried about the software ..
Do you have any links or citations that quotes Bletsas as saying this?
Yes, it's in the article. http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/200701090 2326NWHWEV
My concerns about the software are really about the UI and applications. As I understand it, these are almost entirely new. I'm sure the OS will be fine since it is based on mature technology as you say. However, someone has pointed out that I can try out the whole thing right now using code from http://laptop.org/ - I'll do that before posting any more concerns which are only based on second hand information. -
Re:Software
You don't have to take their word for it; you can grab the complete software stack and test it yourself, if you want. The OLPC team provide OS images that you can use to run the software in any x86 virtualization platform (they recommend qemu, but people have it running in VMWare and Parallels as well).
It's worth checking out just to see their new "Sugar" UI -- which is pretty cool IMHO.
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Re:OLPC will flop because of 'Sugar'When I downloaded the OLPC vmware/qemu image and tried it, I was terrably disappointed. Disappointed in what way? If responsiveness, then current emulators are too slow to run Sugar in real time.
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Re:Virtual Machine
Go ahead and play. Grab a sugar image and fire up QEMU.
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Why is no one talking about actually important...
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Re:How much do these things really cost?
You can find all this information on the wiki. For example: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Our_technology
"What can a $1000 laptop do that the $100 version can't?
Not much. The plan is for the $100 Laptop to do almost everything. What it will not do is store a massive amount of data. What it will have is a level of robustness found on very few laptops of any price; a display that works indoors and out; an order of magnitude improvement in power consumption; and an exceptional wifi antenna design."
"What about connectivity? Aren't telecommunications services expensive in the developing world?
When these machines pop out of the box, they will make a mesh ether network of their own, peer-to-peer. This is something initially developed at MIT and the Media Lab. Connectivity to the Internet will be from the mesh through gateways at the schools. (We are working with the local governments and the private sector regarding how to reduce the cost of Internet access. The Motoman project is an example of how you can make a little connectivity go a very long way.)"
So the $100 can do some stuff a regular laptop cant do. Also, a regular laptop probably has a lot of features that are not needed, nor desired in those countrys. (IEEE, utp networking, cdrom drives that break easily, moving parts like fans and disks, screens that brake and arent usable in the sun) Some specs of the laptop are even Military grade. Its expected that the laptop will last years longer than a normal consumer laptop.
So in the end its not about building a laptop as cheap as possible, or one that has many features and software. Its about building a DEVICE that helps kids to learn, communicate, share and express their creativity in countries like rwanda and Uruguay, for years and years to come.
I've spend hours reading the wiki, and i think some time in the future schools in our own countrys will also start providing a similar laptop to all young students, instead of books.
I would urge people that have their doubts about this project to read the FAQ and Myth pages on the wiki:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Faq and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_myths .
Maybe some of you even are willing to help. :) -
Re:How much do these things really cost?
You can find all this information on the wiki. For example: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Our_technology
"What can a $1000 laptop do that the $100 version can't?
Not much. The plan is for the $100 Laptop to do almost everything. What it will not do is store a massive amount of data. What it will have is a level of robustness found on very few laptops of any price; a display that works indoors and out; an order of magnitude improvement in power consumption; and an exceptional wifi antenna design."
"What about connectivity? Aren't telecommunications services expensive in the developing world?
When these machines pop out of the box, they will make a mesh ether network of their own, peer-to-peer. This is something initially developed at MIT and the Media Lab. Connectivity to the Internet will be from the mesh through gateways at the schools. (We are working with the local governments and the private sector regarding how to reduce the cost of Internet access. The Motoman project is an example of how you can make a little connectivity go a very long way.)"
So the $100 can do some stuff a regular laptop cant do. Also, a regular laptop probably has a lot of features that are not needed, nor desired in those countrys. (IEEE, utp networking, cdrom drives that break easily, moving parts like fans and disks, screens that brake and arent usable in the sun) Some specs of the laptop are even Military grade. Its expected that the laptop will last years longer than a normal consumer laptop.
So in the end its not about building a laptop as cheap as possible, or one that has many features and software. Its about building a DEVICE that helps kids to learn, communicate, share and express their creativity in countries like rwanda and Uruguay, for years and years to come.
I've spend hours reading the wiki, and i think some time in the future schools in our own countrys will also start providing a similar laptop to all young students, instead of books.
I would urge people that have their doubts about this project to read the FAQ and Myth pages on the wiki:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Faq and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_myths .
Maybe some of you even are willing to help. :) -
Re:How much do these things really cost?
You can find all this information on the wiki. For example: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Our_technology
"What can a $1000 laptop do that the $100 version can't?
Not much. The plan is for the $100 Laptop to do almost everything. What it will not do is store a massive amount of data. What it will have is a level of robustness found on very few laptops of any price; a display that works indoors and out; an order of magnitude improvement in power consumption; and an exceptional wifi antenna design."
"What about connectivity? Aren't telecommunications services expensive in the developing world?
When these machines pop out of the box, they will make a mesh ether network of their own, peer-to-peer. This is something initially developed at MIT and the Media Lab. Connectivity to the Internet will be from the mesh through gateways at the schools. (We are working with the local governments and the private sector regarding how to reduce the cost of Internet access. The Motoman project is an example of how you can make a little connectivity go a very long way.)"
So the $100 can do some stuff a regular laptop cant do. Also, a regular laptop probably has a lot of features that are not needed, nor desired in those countrys. (IEEE, utp networking, cdrom drives that break easily, moving parts like fans and disks, screens that brake and arent usable in the sun) Some specs of the laptop are even Military grade. Its expected that the laptop will last years longer than a normal consumer laptop.
So in the end its not about building a laptop as cheap as possible, or one that has many features and software. Its about building a DEVICE that helps kids to learn, communicate, share and express their creativity in countries like rwanda and Uruguay, for years and years to come.
I've spend hours reading the wiki, and i think some time in the future schools in our own countrys will also start providing a similar laptop to all young students, instead of books.
I would urge people that have their doubts about this project to read the FAQ and Myth pages on the wiki:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Faq and http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_myths .
Maybe some of you even are willing to help. :) -
Re:Where are the apps?
Get AbiWord CVS HEAD (see http://www.abisource.com/developers/), and compile with --enable-libabiword. The get the abiword python bindings from our CVS as well (module pyabiword). Compile and install those as well. Finally, in the pythons module, there is an example directory. Look at that. As for the OLPC AbiWord activity, it is in OLPC's git repository: http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=projects/abiword-o
l pc;a=summary -
Re:Where are the apps?
Just because I like to repeat myself every time an OLPC story is posted, I'll ask again: Where are the apps for this platform? Can anybody name one app, accessible to end users (e.g., no recompiling required), that is compatible with the Sugar UI, mesh networking, low-end specs, and other unique features?
It's Linux. It's running on a 500MHz Geode processor, which is 32-bit x86 compatible, and 128MB of DDR266. If you replaced the 512MB Flash drive with a suitable hard drive, you could run Windows XP on it. The machine isn't *that* anemic, and since it's running a heavily customized version of Fedora Core (and by customized, it's most likely in the form of stripping comments from libraries, and taking the Zen approach to OS design in having one app per task, and by picking apps that are generally lightweight), I sincerely doubt that there's going to be any trouble finding apps for it. It supports USB removable storage, so you could probably run apps like Firefox, OpenOffice.org, or GIMP on it, too. And the display is reasonably high res, too, at 1200x900.A platform exists only to run the apps, not visa-versa. BeOS was a great platform, too. Many excellent gaming platforms have failed, because they lacked apps (i.e., games). Linux desktop is getting nowhere, despite it's technical excellence, because it lacks key apps (i.e., Office). Pull a few key apps from MacOS X (e.g., Office, Photoshop, etc.) and see what happens to adoption.
Hmm. It lacks MS Office, yes. But there's ways to run it if you really need it, through systems like Crossover and Wine. There's also counterparts to everything you mention. I prefer GIMP to Photoshop, both in feature set and interface. There's alternatives to MS Office that are far superior from a technical standpoint, too. There's a reason that an increasing number of organizations are migrating away from MS software.
You can't even throw gaming in its face, actually, because the laptop in question doesn't have the juice to run any modern games, regardless of what OS it's running. Quite aside from the fact that gaming is quite possible under Linux. Just this afternoon, I was playing GuildWars, and I played some Oblivion yesterday on my Linux-based gaming rig.And all those platforms have far, far more apps available than OLPC (just look at sf.net, download.com or cdw.com). I know OLPC runs a flavor of Linux, but no known Linux apps are compatible with the specs above (Sugar, mesh networking, etc.). Go into a shopping mall and give a random person an OLPC -- what would they do with it? Sure, it has some included apps, but that can't be sufficient to meet the needs of millions of kids with every need and in every environment imaginable.
I hope OLPC works out great, but I can't imagine anyone who has ever designed systems looks at this and thinks anything else but -- great platform, but for what applications?
It's Linux. There's no shortage of apps for Linux. Besides which, I'm willing to bet that an overwhelming number of computer owners only use them as glorified typewriters. They do e-mail, they surf the 'net, they do some basic word processing, and that's about it. Gamers make up a pretty small portion of the computer market by comparison, and that's even a non-issue, since the OLPC doesn't have the power to run most modern games. All the OLPC needs to be successful is to fill those niches, and from what I've read, it's going to do that.
You'd do well to read this: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_components -
Re:Where are the apps?Where are the apps for this platform? Can anybody name one app, accessible to end users
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_components
Applications on B1
a web browser built on xulrunner
a simple document viewer based upon evince
TamTam, a music synthesis tool
Memory, a musical memory game written in Csound that exploits the mesh network
eToys (see above)
PenguinTV RSS reader
Abiword, a word processor
a simple application to demonstrate the camera by putting its video onto the screen.
Applications (and ports) under development for B2
Any of these applications may not be available in time for B2, or necessarily preloaded onto the systems.
a journal
a wiki with WYSIWYG editing, using Crossmark as its markup language
OpenDocument Viewer to read documents in OpenDocument format, a highly-compressed format that is a fully open international standard (ISO 26300)
VIM, a text editor
Helix, an open-source multimedia environment
other video tools, such as a video wiki
an image map tool
OLPCities, a virtual world programming environment
FACIL, a webpage editor developed to be used by children. (In English at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/EASE)
Musical Editor, a music composition toolkit
Drawing Workshop, a shared graphics space
some other simple graphics software, perhaps based upon tuxpaint
a Tetris-like game that exploits the mesh
chat, serverless linux instant messenger http://cspace.in/ , VOIP, email
a shell and debugger -
Re:Where are the apps?Where are the apps for this platform? Can anybody name one app, accessible to end users
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_components
Applications on B1
a web browser built on xulrunner
a simple document viewer based upon evince
TamTam, a music synthesis tool
Memory, a musical memory game written in Csound that exploits the mesh network
eToys (see above)
PenguinTV RSS reader
Abiword, a word processor
a simple application to demonstrate the camera by putting its video onto the screen.
Applications (and ports) under development for B2
Any of these applications may not be available in time for B2, or necessarily preloaded onto the systems.
a journal
a wiki with WYSIWYG editing, using Crossmark as its markup language
OpenDocument Viewer to read documents in OpenDocument format, a highly-compressed format that is a fully open international standard (ISO 26300)
VIM, a text editor
Helix, an open-source multimedia environment
other video tools, such as a video wiki
an image map tool
OLPCities, a virtual world programming environment
FACIL, a webpage editor developed to be used by children. (In English at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/EASE)
Musical Editor, a music composition toolkit
Drawing Workshop, a shared graphics space
some other simple graphics software, perhaps based upon tuxpaint
a Tetris-like game that exploits the mesh
chat, serverless linux instant messenger http://cspace.in/ , VOIP, email
a shell and debugger -
Re:OLPC SucksI think the "OLPC" is just a first wave in a new corporate strategy to "legitimately" dump difficult-to-dispose-of old hardware and then sell new hardware in developing countries. Please read the OLPC wiki before you start rambling, especially this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_myths
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Re:Screenshot
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Purpose!
There are no applications because running applications is not the platform's purpose.
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Source code is here
For sources and development information see here: http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=sugar;a=summary
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Screenshot
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_design_review_3/
Lameness filter is a lameness filter -
Sun should take a lesson.
Most of Sugar, the OLPC's desktop environment, is written in Python. The source is here:
http://dev.laptop.org/git.do?p=sugar;a=tree
I just tried it out, and I am pleasantly surprised! It's amazing how much faster Python is for desktop applications than Java is. Even when using IBM's SWT for developing Java applications, they still feel far more bloated and slower-responding than OLPC's Python-based GUI applications.
I would have expected Python to be slower than Java, but apparently that is not the case. It could be that the layers upon layers that make up Swing really slow it down. Maybe it's time for Sun to take a page from OLPC's Sugar project, and develop a UI framework that is fast and easy to use. -
Re:Where can I find the "Sugar" Windowmanager or D
Surely, it must be possible to build the same "Sugar" interface on any full install of a moder Linux OS... Where are the OS packages? Where is the SVN respository?
Look at the OLPC wiki. -
Re:The "Stick Figure" icon sounds offensive...
Not likely. But it does bear a disturbing resemblance to a pirate flag.
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Re:Test after building?
There clearly has been and is testing going on. Downloadable images of Sugar and the proposed software environment have been out for a while. Testing of etoys has been underway for a while as well. The other apps all appear to be adaptations of widely used Linux software and are in teh downloadable image.
Documentation of stress testing for the XO computer (apparently already underway) can be found at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Testing_checklist.
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Hacking, User Customization, and Etoys
Many of the comments so far have suggested that the XO machines interface was limited, and it does appear that some things look more restrictive than they probably ought to be.
Still, the thing that most struck me in the demo was how easy it was for kids to build applications using EToys, a "Logo, Smalltalk, Hypercard, and StarLogo" influenced (see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_EToys "authoring system"/direct manipulation programming language. The demo didn't take that very far, unless you consider the game widget that was demoed. Clearly, this "langauge" provides a lot of room for kids to step beyond other limitations of the system. Etoys applications can apparently be uploaded, shared, and played through the browser. I can't tell if the browser can be used from within etoys, but it would be interesting if it could be.
Beyond that, it appears that it is possible to install other software on the XO laptop (see http://http//wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar#Hacking. Does anyone know if how easily children will be able to do this? I assume this means that a child can grow the function of laptop over time (to do things like extending the word processor with the functionality that is now missing).
The OLPC laptop wiki addresses the question indirectly, by stating that (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_software_task_lis
t )"the $100 laptop will not be tied to a specific set of software or content. It will have the flexibility to change with the requirements of the student. Individuals will inevitably find individualized uses; certainly local, regional, and national requirements will drive much of the base configuration." But that is a statement of requirements rather than function. Where do things actually stand relative to that goal? -
Hacking, User Customization, and Etoys
Many of the comments so far have suggested that the XO machines interface was limited, and it does appear that some things look more restrictive than they probably ought to be.
Still, the thing that most struck me in the demo was how easy it was for kids to build applications using EToys, a "Logo, Smalltalk, Hypercard, and StarLogo" influenced (see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_EToys "authoring system"/direct manipulation programming language. The demo didn't take that very far, unless you consider the game widget that was demoed. Clearly, this "langauge" provides a lot of room for kids to step beyond other limitations of the system. Etoys applications can apparently be uploaded, shared, and played through the browser. I can't tell if the browser can be used from within etoys, but it would be interesting if it could be.
Beyond that, it appears that it is possible to install other software on the XO laptop (see http://http//wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar#Hacking. Does anyone know if how easily children will be able to do this? I assume this means that a child can grow the function of laptop over time (to do things like extending the word processor with the functionality that is now missing).
The OLPC laptop wiki addresses the question indirectly, by stating that (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_software_task_lis
t )"the $100 laptop will not be tied to a specific set of software or content. It will have the flexibility to change with the requirements of the student. Individuals will inevitably find individualized uses; certainly local, regional, and national requirements will drive much of the base configuration." But that is a statement of requirements rather than function. Where do things actually stand relative to that goal? -
Re:URL Bar
Here and in other discussions you seem to be speaking from direct knowledge when you talk about this. Can it be reasonably presumed that you have used the browser as it is delivered with the XO Computers UI and it does in fact work as advertised. That would put an end to back on forth on the issue.
Beyond that, it seems clear, looking at the OLPC laptop wiki (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Web_Browser) that it is possible to install other browsers, including other modifications of GECKO (e.g. Firefox). I assume the general process for doing this follows the outline described at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar#Hacking.
Thanks in advance for addressing these questions.
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Re:URL Bar
Here and in other discussions you seem to be speaking from direct knowledge when you talk about this. Can it be reasonably presumed that you have used the browser as it is delivered with the XO Computers UI and it does in fact work as advertised. That would put an end to back on forth on the issue.
Beyond that, it seems clear, looking at the OLPC laptop wiki (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Web_Browser) that it is possible to install other browsers, including other modifications of GECKO (e.g. Firefox). I assume the general process for doing this follows the outline described at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar#Hacking.
Thanks in advance for addressing these questions.