Slashdot Mirror

In most if not all cases, you will find applications that are as good as if not better than the PalmOS version.

Ah, but can I get the source? It's not essential, but it's a definite important feature for me.

TomTom - Exists for PalmOS and WM. In my opinion the WM version seems to work MUCH better and is far easier to set up.

I haven't tried this, but I was not aware that the GPS was usable by apps on Treo 650.

TCPMP media player - Exists for both platforms, has somewhat extended codec support compared to PalmOS on a Windows Mobile device

Yeah, I prefer TCPMP over RealPlayer, as TCPMP will play OGGs (which is what I rip to by default).

Web browser - The PalmOS web browser Just Plain Sucks in every way possible. Even Pocket IE is better and it isn't that hot (there are other options for WM)

Yes, which is why I've switched to Opera. I'm not happy that I can't get source to Opera, but I can't get source to any of the others and Opera seems to work better.

Java - The Java environment for PalmOS is utter and total crap and when I tried it on my Treo 650 not a single app I tried would work.

I managed to get ahold of the IMB java kit for PalmOS so I could run Opera. Seems to work pretty well, but then I don't use it for anything besides Opera; I'm not a big fan of Java myself.

GMail's Java app works great on my Tilt.

I run my own mail/web server, which seems to work fine with Opera and the mail client that comes with PalmOS. My only gripe there is that the PalmOS mail client doesn't support aliases.

Google Maps - Don't think there's a PalmOS client that can come anywhere close to Google's Windows Mobile native app

Don't know; haven't use the windows mobile version, but the PalmOS version of Google Maps seems to work fine for me.

Instant Messaging - Half of the PalmOS IM app vendors seem to have gone out of business or stopped supporting the app. I've found FAR more choices for WM.

IM isn't a priority for me (I hardly use it). I'm pretty sure there are open source IM clients for PalmOS however.

You don't exactly provide details of what apps you're using.

Here's a list:

• Little John - Console emulator for playing classic games.
• pFuel - Keeps track of gas mileage.
• FreeCoins - Accounting software.
• Keyring - Keeps track of passwords.
• pssh - SSH client.
• Plucker - EBook reader.
• LispMe - Scheme interpreter.
• Eat Watch - Weight tracking.

The thing is, PalmOS works very well for me, and is entirely compatible with Linux (or any other platform I choose to move to). If I were going to move to a new mobile platform, the last place I would look is to Microsoft (or Apple for that matter). Not only would I need to have the apps I use above (which I have source to, so I could port given a decent development environment that runs on my desktop of choice), but I would prefer to move to something more open, not less. Something more hackable, not something that gets in my way when I try to do something the big corps don't like.

Your Treo does wifi

There is wifi available for it

and has a touch screen?

Are you being obtuse? Palms have had a touch screen since they came out over ten years ago.

And how much does the "sold separately" expansion card for the MP3 player hold?

I don't know what you are talking about, but TCPMP seems to play my OGGs just fine from any of my SD cards, which I've been using since I had a Palm m500. It's also handy to take the SD card from my digital camera and upload the pictures to my webserver via my Treo.

Does it also run OS X?

No; that's one of the reasons I like it :)

That screen sure is big.

Yeah, it's about 75% the size of the iPhone's screen. Not too shabby, especially considering that it came out on the market years ago.

Watch movies on it do you?

I do, with the aforementioned TCPMP, which I have source to. "HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is my current favorite. I also play NES and GameBoy games, keep track of my car's mileage, keep track of my finances, keep track of my passwords, administer my servers remotely, read books, get directions, browse the web, etc, etc. Hell, I can even write and run software, right on my Treo! I haven't been paying attention, is Apple allowing people to even *load* third party software on the iPhone yet? How about that battery, can you swap it out with a spare like I can on any of my Palm devices and cell phones? Can you expand the memory? $600 is a lot, but I can buy a Treo 650 and 15 1GB SD cards for that much money. Plus I wouldn't be locked into a single provider. Or I could even wait three months and get a fully open-sourced phone with even more features, and port all the software that I use to it.

You're "does it run OSX" bit gives you away: you're an Apple fanboy, and the only reason you replied was because you didn't have points to mod me down. Face it, the only thing new that the iPhone brings to the cell phone world is Apple's marketing power.

Scheme/Lisp/Erlang/others. Every one of these I've looked at has one fatal flaw: It's not JIT'ed, or compiled. Erlang can be compiled, but then you lose one killer feature: even if they're just bytecode-compiled, compiled functions cannot be replaced at runtime, the way other Erlang functions can.

• CMUCL
• SBCL
• ABCL (compiles to Java bytecode)
• CLISP (compiles to bytecode)

I know that in all of these you can replace a compiled function at runtime with another compiled function, both from personal experience and because the ANSI standard says so.

You seem to have made a mistake many people do: confusing Common Lisp with Scheme. Scheme is a useful language, but it's primarily a teaching language, and it's extremely limited. The simplicity of Scheme makes it useful as well as a simple base for embedded languages. However Common Lisp is far more useful as a language for developing large robust systems, because it doesn't force you to implement everything from scratch and much much more is standardized between implementations.

I don't want to be the cliché of the Lisp programmer saying "Lisp had it first", but I am amused when people find dynamic compilation new and exciting, or an integrated object system, or bemoan the lack of certification by a standards body.

Personally, this and the latest crop of portable bluetooth wireless keyboards has me considering buying a new PDA again. I haven't carried one since my old Palm V died.

First, I keep a diary on mine. I'd been keeping a diary for several years on little pads of paper, but a paper diary is rather inconvenient for searching. If I want to remember what the name of that bed and breakfast we stayed at a couple years back was, I can find it in seconds. Paper diaries are also much harder to encrypt, if you're worried about snoopers.

Second, a real geek use - I like to program. I have three languages on my PDA - C, Scheme, and Forth. I can write small apps, test out algorithms, and even learn new languages, no matter where I am. I have the full ANSI C spec, as well as tutorials for both Scheme and Forth on an expansion card and can study them at my leisure.

What about Palm Python? Okay, limited, no QT, I know.

For my programming needs, the H330 is plenty. There's OnboardC, LispMe, and Dragon Forth. This lets me do the kind of programming I like to do. I recognize that this doesn't fit everyone's needs, but I don't think I'll outgrow my H330 for quite a while. :->

It's pretty much roll-your-own, but lispme provides access to a reasonable set of mathematical functions, and lisp in general is well-suited to functional programming (that is, building your own calculations).

Man, you have it easy. Grab a Palm, go to this link and enjoy. Now what I would like to see is J2SE (or a large subset that includes AWT) on high end Palm devices. Yes, there is Zaurus, but Palm or CE are so much more popular.

Can LispMe help you?

much better !

My Palm Vx is the first diary I have used for more than 6 months. The alarm feature has been invaluable . I can schedule my life better than ever before. And my bus commute is often spent using LispME or , until I recently got a winner, iRogue

You don't need to write everything in assembly, you know. High level languages are there for a reason.

I mean, there are a ton of ways to program the little guys, and it's vaguely practical too. And of course people have used them to drive robots and stuff using their onboard serial/usb port. I picked up a handspring deluxe for <$100 a week ago at Fry's.

Here's some programming-palm linkage:
Lisp (scheme)
waba -- micro JVM (~71k), quite cool if you're into Java
extra classes and tools that work with waba, really nice data storage classes for example
a ui gen program for waba, written in waba :-)
super waba, a bigger derivation of waba
waba community site
[yeah, I've been having lots of fun with waba :) ]

All of the above is free (beer & speech). LispMe you can actually hack code ON the pda. PocketC also allows you to hack code on the pda, but it is shareware (not _that_ expensive, about $18 iirc, the runtime is free). The java stuff you compile on your machine and HotSync across onto the target. And of course both Palm and Handspring have developer sections on their sites with tool stuff and doc sets you can nab for free.

Lisp: Good news Bad news How to win big also known as "Worse is Better"

Lisp on your Palm!

Lisp/Scheme is pretty cool, but depending on the implementation you choose, you usually get little or no support for making GUI applications. So if its going to be used anywhere, I'm guessing CGI scripts and such on the web. Using it with SVG might be a pretty good option.

------
bleh

(plot (lambda (x) (+ (sin x)(cos (* x x)))) -10 10 -2 2)

The mindset of Palm programmers seems to be morbidly similar to that of most Windows programmers - develop an app, release it as Shareware with a nag screen and 30-day trial period, then try to make a few bucks by selling your software on PalmGear, so any project to further open development for the Palm is a big step forward.

On the downside, it appears that it wants a device with at least 4MB of memory (Sorry III, V and 2MB Visor owners...) and it doesn't seem to have the ability to create standalone PRC files (thats a standalone application file).

Some of the other alternatives for developing directly on your Palm (no PC necessary; these read MemoPad or DOC files with your source):

Quartus Forth: A standalone Forth interpreter/compiler that is quite powerful; however, the free version can't compile PRCs, and it costs $70 to register.

LispMe is a Scheme compiler, licensed under the GPL. Yummy. Now we just need a better way to write parentheses in graffiti...

PocketC is an onboard C compiler, distributed as shareware.

And, one musn't forget the ever-helpful Palm OS Programmers FAQ

LispMe is available here
I prefer it to Python as it doesn't involve the regular usage of exotic Graffiti characters but now that other languages are finally coming,I just can't wait to have a Forth on my PalmIII!
--

1. Buy a second-hand Atari Portfolio
2. Buy a Palm Pilot and replace all with LispMe

Mind you, the HP is still faster, though not by much. And, alas, I'm not much called upon to integrate arbitrary functions anymore.