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New High-End HP Calculator?
mschaef writes "There's a pretty convincing looking story over on hpcalc.org describing a new high-end HP calculator. The bottom line: 75MHz ARM9, USB Port, IrDA compatibility, 128x80 display, and a slot for SD cards. It also looks like the same basic software is running, either ported or via emulation of the venerable Saturn (HP-propriatary) CPU. The full story is over at HPcalc.org. It's good to see HP back in the game (hopefully) like this."
Cue the linux port project ;-)
Great, but can I treat it like a hammer, and still have it work? You know, grab it, punch out a few calculations, and toss it aside without much care where it lands.
Hmm... I doubt it'll be allowed in exams or tests if it's got infra-red capabilities.
People might find it all to easy to chat and exchange answers on the sly if their calculators can communicate silently.
Last.fm - join the social music revolution
With PDAs becoming faster and more capable, is there still a market for plane calculators? Palm (and others) must have tons of (free) software to do the same with your PDA.
...but can you run linux on it?
Seriously tho, that's a serious piece of hardware.
Every geek should have one.
I had to use a TI-83 as part of my schooling, and the fun we used to have with that - playing networked 2-player frogger games and shit via link cables we spanned across desks so you couldn't see.
It was pretty good for learning maths stuff, too. We had to go thru all the finding stuff out thru calculus methods etc before plotting them up on the machine, but it was good to show comparisons of families of curves without having to arse about drawing up countless graphs.
Pity IrDA sucks for data transfer when you are doing furious gaming sessions.
I finish my undergrad course this year, and that's certainly got my interested. I had messed about with various maths programs and the like on palm & pocketpc devices, but nothing replaces the way a graphing calculator type of thing works because it's designed for such a specific task, and they do them well.
Is it time to go to this one yet?
No... I'm still doing fine with my old 28S
Help find a cure for Gidget.
That is still the ultimate "nerd" calculator. Came in a zipper pouch, had a slot for expansion cards, and like all decent calculators worth their circuits, used Reverse Polish Notation.
I remember many an hour wasted in class playing Columns or Arkanoid or Crazy Cars.
Before there was Palm Pilot for looking like you were doing work, there was the HP48GX!
MMORPG fan-boy? Prove your worth
The question is whether or not it will have that old sturdy HP-feel (like the 48SX/G). Are those rubber-buttons in the screenshot? Certainly the Fx-row looks like they are.
Still, looking kind of good... Mmm.. HP calcs... <mouth watering>
I wonder why not use a PDA with better screen and resolution, faster processor (300Mhz, or more), more applications. The remaining factor is that is there a graphics calculator application that is as powerful as an HP cal (or more powerful).
The price, well, I think you can get a $200 PDA that is more powerful than 75Mhz.
After all, the HP cal may have the processor optimized for heavy engineering task (and other heavy math task). Also, it has buttons just for calculator. So this may be the deciding factor.
What do you think?
I'll be much happier when they add a CF slot [even better if it replaces the SD slot.]
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
I may be missing something.
Where do I plug my mouse?
I'll be that troll. I don't want to use anything with inferior AoS. There is only the one true way and it is RPN.
I actually asked HP about a less expensive, scientific calculator ($50), and customer service said there would be soon. This was 6 months ago.
Still waiting.
...only builds better idiots. I almost fell out of my chair three weeks ago when my professor said we are not allowed to use calculators in his Calculus II class.
And while I would not exactly say I am doing good in his class at this point, I am learning and just plain realizing things that I should have learned eons ago. The problem was that it was always more convenient to mash the keys on a calculator than to just think.
... at least until some vendor provides mathematical sofware for the PDA.
The software in todays calculators are capable of pretty advanced mathematical opererations, including advanced calculus, matix operations, statisics and complex math. Until sombody creates an equally good mathematics software suit for PDA's these things will still be around.
Another thing is QA. How are we to be sure that some program we downloaded to our PDA does the calculations correctly. When you buy an advanced calculator you can be pretty confident that the different mathematical functions has been thoroughly tested. Since the key sellingpoint of a calculator is the ability to, well, calculate, the vendor has probably gone to some effort to ensure that it is infact capable of doing that correctly.
Scitne aliquis remedium potimum crapulae?
The "Secure" in SD secures the data from you, using cryptography and Palladium-like hardware to protect decryption/authentication keys. However, they also come with a switch on the side [like 1.44 MB floppies] that write-protects the contents, which is what the manufacturers would rather have you notice.
Other than that, SD loses out to CF in every aspect. I bought a 512 MB CF card the other day and paid AUD 213, while the SD equivalent was around AUD 600, IIRC.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Linux runs calculators
Can I do 55378008 on it?
The only thing that's successfully competed with TI calculators has been computer algebra systems (you can get a good, cheap CAS program like Derive -- another TI product, by the way -- for $99 for the student version and $199 for the professional version) and PDA scientific calculator programs. Existing hardware and software is more flexible and less expensive than this new HP. So if this isn't intended for the student market, I wonder who it is intended for, and if it'll actually sell once it's out.
Owl tried to think of something wise to say, but couldn't.
TI-89:
F1 = Y=
F2 = Window
F3 = Graph
F4 = TblSet
F5 = Table
HP 49G+
F1 = Y=
F2 = Win
F3 = Graph
F4 = 2D/3D
F5 = TblSet
F6 = Table
That is 4 out of 5 function keys!
Sunny Dubey
Why not just run Mathlab in PDA?
No calculator can ever come even close to the Mathlab functionality. Calculators are out of date. Just buy PDA.
haha, I mean 5 out of 6, major typo
Sunny Dubey
back in high school i did something unheard of
everyone had TI-83's - i had to have an HP48G+; it was the best thing i could have done. once i finally figured out the RPN on it (yeah, it was the first time i'd ever used that style) it was more powerful, faster, friendlier, and had cooler games to play on it. (a testament to the Saturn processor?)
i didn't care if i couldn't play tetris with my friends on link cable, i didn't care if there was only one person in the class who had one besides me. while everyone else was trying to figure out how to send files with the wire discreetly, we were quickly Beaming lines of test over about 3 feet via the IR signal
now that i've seen this one, i want another one - sure the 48G+ has loads of life left in it, but this one has USB of all things i'd love to have on my 48G+
yeah, i'm a geek for sure
www.necroticobsession.com
Sheesh, would it kill people to put a nice high-res color display on these things? A powerfull calculator with a high-res display would kick ass, and not just for gaming, it would be great for development too.
I have to say though, if it uses the old HP style syntax it's going to suck. TI calcs are a lot more intuitive.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I have a Palm that can do HP48 emulation (to some degree). It also has its own custom RPN calculator.
Can't touch my HP48GX - You can emulate buttons in software all you want, it will never compare to the nice buttons of the 48.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Gosh, THIS is good news. I was absolutely DEVASTATED when HP stopped making (the HP48) calculators. I've never owned an HP49, but heard they were close to the HP48. Wow, this is exciting, of course, only a geek/nerd would be. I can't wait to get my hands on one. USB, cool, it should work with Mac OS X. I just hope it runs all my old code. And I thought I was doomed to using Texas Instruments calculators for the rest of my life or persuing eBay for HP leftovers. Anyone not in the know must know that HP made THE BEST calculators EVER for reliability, functionality, ACCURACY, and features. These things were designed to last a lifetime of a professional.
e /x48.html
For those interested in running an HP48 on their Macintosh (Mac OS X and 9), here's a good HP48 emulator:
http://www.markus-fritze.de/x48/
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/math_scienc
All YOUR CALCULATOR ARE BELONG TO HEWLETT PACKARD!
A good scientific calc replacement for the Zaurus is Qplot. Also available there is the list of changes you need to make to get it to run on Open Zaurus.
It doesn't do everything yet, but it is OSS so that you can add your own functionality. If that's still not enough for you, there is a build of Octave for the Zaurus so you can load Matlab toolboxes.
Beep beep.
Unfortunately the later versions did away with RPN (as the primary mode). Sux0rs. I don't want to "upgrade" to something that isn't fully RPN-optimized :-}
Schools and students, with limited budgets, are the main target for these devices. Your low end device target price is probably a bit below $100, and your high end will still be less than $150 or so. Thus, you've gotta pinch pennies everywhere you can. Color displays add cost (and probably use more battery power? I'm just guessing) without adding much in the way of educational value. Hence they get the axe.
I work at an engineering firm. (They build transmitters for cell towers)
The only calculators I've ever seen in use here are 48Gs and 48GXes. It's either that or Matlab on a lab PC, not many other options for serious engineers. No one has a TI or Casio here - those are calculators for middle school students.
I'm worried that this new 49GX will not be as sturdy as the old 48GX, given HP's recent build quality track record (Seems like all the people who gave a damn about quality went over to Agilent, who still make some nice gear). Plus, the picture shown of this potential new 49G+ looks way too TI-ish.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I've dropped my HP48 and I now use a Tungsten T with
a tegory= 18
- Power48, an open source HP48 emulator, when I need to do complex things
- EasyCalc, under GPL, for everything else (95% of the time).
I costs a little more than $200 but you can play PacMan with XCade, have an open source C compiler (onboardc), amd much more (bluetooth)...
You can find more open source calcs here:
http://www.palmopensource.com/index.php3?c
I have found in several situations that the CAS, while a bit slower, can come up with a correct answer to a complicated transform that causes a TI89 to barf and quit. It can effectively calculate factorials up to about 250!, which I think is very neat (if not all that useful). The equation writer is incredible - it's like entering equations in Mathcad, easy to see what they ~really~ look like, and quick too. Clock, calendar and on-board help menus are very useful as well. RPN always adds mucho score points. Too bad it defaults to algebraic out of the box...
My biggest complaint is in the ROM - only the latest (non-HP approved) ROM revision fixes the more serious bugs, like random garbage collection delays, in the calc's OS. There's also the standard complaint about the sucky rubber keys, and the annoying screen design & resolution. Speed isn't too bad - the general code is optimised well (much of it was taken from the 48 series).
This new addition appears to fix all, or nearly all of the mistakes that were made with the 49G. I look forward to reading reviews of use.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it looks as though I may add a new RPN machine to my collection soon.
How many points of similarity are there if you compare your IBM-Compatible keyboard to your Mac-keyboard, and what meaningful conclusions can be drawn from that?
....and it was worth every penny. Purpose built calculators are wayyy better than palms. Just using the stylus to punch the numbers takes way too much time in a test - much less in real life while a customer is staring at you fiddling with your palm device. :)
entropy
I could care less about almost all of the speces except one: does it use Reverse Polish Notation ? I couldn't find the answer in the article. There's a reason that the HP12C is still one of the - if not THE - dominant calculator in the world of finance (indeed, AIMR requires CFA candidates to use it or a single type of TI calculator on their exams), and that reason is RPN. (I know it's not because of speed because it is up to 10 times slower than the TI calculator which costs a fraction of an HP 12C).
It can't be that good - it has less buttons than my 48GX. And we all know the calculator with the most buttons is the best! (at least, that's what we thought in high school) :-)
...And with EasyCalc you have 320x320 color graphs ! Who would pay so much for ridiculous 128x80 b/w graphs ?!
The real issue is that SD seems to be the favoured choice of memory storage/extension in new hardware, despite higher costs to both producers and end users.
Consider that the CF spec is an open one and involves paying no encryption license fees to an organisation like SDMI: it makes me wonder whether the execs are casually treated by SDMI reps to lavish holidays at exotic destinations in exchange for securing the slot for SD.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
They even seem to have said that new high-end calculators are coming out on HP's site. I'm curious where the development effort for this is coming from. I don't think the calculator folks from Australia or France survived the great Carly purge.
adam
Would you do it for some scoobie crack?
What would be a practical application for such a beast?
Which areas are likely to prefer this machine over a regular PC and/or PDA?
Huh, I thought IrDA was dying...? Bluetooth is supposed to take over for short-range wirelss communications, isn't it? There's an IrDA port on my cell-phone, but when I figured I'd want to connect to my computer, I got a cable instead of an IrDA dongle, though the dongle was actually cheaper.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
We also had the HP 48G in high school, and I have to say that even to this day I stutter wuth four-function calculators because, instinctively, I try RPN.
Regardless, I think it could be a legitimate concern for test proctors - I never got it to work, but remember talk of a program that would allow your HP to act as a television remote control.
Even when we started using the HPs in class in 1994-ish, the NYS Regents (and, I believe, the AP test people) had disseminated some information that proctors should be aware of calculators with IR capability and cover the ports with electrical tape.
Cool as this is, though, I really have no use for it. Heck, I don't even know how to use all the features of my TI-81, much less my TI-83. Actually, I never knew that HP made calculators, but judging by several posts above, they must have been pretty good. I'll have to see if I can find a used one somewhere.
TI calculators are dominant in schools.
And that's all they're good for. They are piddly toys for students.
The HP 48GX, despite being far older and slower than the TI-92, is dominant in engineering. At my company, there are two types of calculators people use: HP 48s and PCs running Matlab. I have NEVER seen an engineer here using a TI.
Even in my high school, almost everyone who was planning on going into engineering disciplines bought an HP48. As to your comment, "And part of this is HP's fault -- when the TI-92 came out, a colleague of mine was at a math teachers' conference and asked HP if they had anything coming out that could compare with it, and their answer was a resigned "Nope"."
Then why did at least two people I know in high school buy TI-92s, only to replace them one year later with the *significantly older* HP-48? The TI-92 sucked. It was a monstrosity that was DOA in the education market because it had a QWERTY keyboard and hence was not legal on any standardized tests. The HP48 was legal on most tests if you blocked its IR port, and most proctors didn't even bother checking that. (It was widely known that the 48's IR receiver was very weak and only good for calc-to-calc communications of 6" or so. There's an ongoing debate as to whether this was done for power savings or to keep the calc test legal.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
In fact, why not go the whole hog and have a data acquisition module as well? A pocket datalogger that collected the data, modelled the function, did the statistics, and output the data into a report on a PC. Leverage almost all of HPs technologies into a well integrated product.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
CompactFlash Licensing [from CFA info]
Totally free in every sense.
SecureDigital Licensing [from Joining SDA]
[plenty of PDF links from there, but as I understand the fees vary from USD1000 to USD4500 per year. Note the bit about intellectual property - a minefield when infractions occur.]
HP is a member of both groups.
Finally, the CFA homepage has an announcement about the new CF Spec v2.0 which doubles the data transfer rate to 16 MB/sec. Couldn't find any performance figures for SD cards but I doubt it's anywhere close.
For a consumer or producer, it's clear that unless you require an ultra-tiny form factor or DRM, CF is the winner by far.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Matlab doesn't run on PDAs.
That said, calculators in engineering ARE slowly being replaced by Matlab. Where I work, a lot of people have no calculators, they just use Matlab on lab PCs.
Still, having a real calculator is very convenient when you're not near a lab PC or there are no free network licenses for Matlab.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I covetted my 48G in high school. The ability to store data, make simple programs, RPN, and the equation/constant library were powerful tools. Everybody else used TIs. In college, I convinced a EE buddy to buy a HP48, and he was much happier with this choice.
They announced the 49G when I was in m last year of college. I was excited. The 48G with a CAS! Instead, what a disappointment! Stiff keys, constant need to upgrade the software to fix bugs (through a cable I had to jury rig from an old serial mouse cable, because it didn't come with one), no equation library, and the frequent pauses in the software in the middle of simple calculations. And the OS, especially the way the memory was handled, was cumbersome and confusing. Same screen and same slow processor. Not a purchase decision I'm proud of.
Given their recent history, I have a lot of reservations about the quality of this product, and doubts that they will make any inroads into the education market. Once again the screen and processor seem to be stuck in the past.
HPs used to be THE calculator for engineers. I'll still use my 49G for classes where computers are not alowed, but for everything else, I prefer MATLAB. Although it is a lot more expensive, MATLAB, MathCAD or Mathematica on a small laptop seems to me like the ideal tool for the modern engineer.
"Operating Features: Entry Logic: Algebraic / RPN / Textbook"
So YES! we have RPN.
Other things I've found interesting:
"Displayed numerical precision: 12 digits, exponent: -4999 to +4999"
My HP48's (and I assume the HP49) exponents only go from -499 to 499.
They have also brought back infrared capabilities, which had disappeared from the HP49 due to the new flash memory.
It was my reward for getting into grammar school, and my biggest regret is that I haven't got it anymore.
Surely someone is old enough to have had an earlier calculator?
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!
start making the 16C again.
It's nice to hear things like this and even more so if it doesn't turn out to be vaporware :)
My HP48 has been awesome all except for the speed!
x^3 yay.
I wish they make Mathematica or Matlab to run on my Palm. Though memory could be a problem for software like Matlab.
I can see a tablet computer good for such applications. Then the NB in Mathematica will be real NB that takes your hand written proves and calculations.
It'll still add and subtract right?
You can even imagine a Beowulf cluster of them.
Less is more !
Yes! A thousand times yes!
Would it be that hard for them to make a few more 16Cs? I'd dash out and buy a couple (one for office, keep my existing 16C for home, and one for a spare in case the idiots discontinued it again).
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
If only HP had kept the HP48 keyboard layout on the HP49 I wouldn't have deserted. Seems the new model seems to be following the same pattern.
I am looking for the ROM for this baby. Maybe I can emulate it on my PocketPC, as I have SD card slot, Infrared and USB, I only need software to make it work! Then I will have a powerful calculator with me... dreaming....
.. on a PocketPC.
BTW: you may have interest looking at Emu48, which does very good job in emulating HP48, 49, 38, 39
I don't understand why the calc division stayed with HP, who shuttered development of new calcs for a few years shortly after Agilent was spun off. I'll agree with you on build quality, their old stuff could stand up to a tank. I have an old HP workstation, that was built of thicker sheet metal than my car.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
The number one reason that a PDA won't replace a calculator is that a touchscreen is a piss-poor substitute for real buttons with travel and tactile feedback ("click", but that doesn't sound as high-tech). I have a Handspring Visor and have downloaded and used multiple calculator apps on it. Some of them are damned good, but I always turn to my trusty HP 32SII for anything more than a handful of calculations.
That's why I'm glad this 49G+ is coming out (IF it's a decent calc, as worthy as the 48 series) - In case my 48GX ever dies.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Hmm. You say it has wireless? Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...
HP has totally betrayed Silicon Valley. They are gutting Silicon Valley by firing all their engineers and hiring cheap labor in India.
They even have the audacity to say that they can't find good enough people in the Bay Area which is why they need to open up research centers in India and Singapore. All that with 8.6% unemployment.
BOYCOTT HP!
Made AFAIK the FIRST desktop electronic calculator--the LOCI, which calculated logarithms in hardware circa 1965 using magnetic cores as part of the calculation hardware. This, in a time when a rotary calculator with a square root button was a very big deal. I played briefly with a LOCI at a trade show and, yes, if you keyed in 2 X 2, it displayed the result as 3.99999999999.
They went on to produce a very successful line of desktop electronic calculators. Famous story is that they were trying to sell them into financial institutions, and a customer tried replicating some calculations from his book of mortgage tables. They didn't agree, and it turned out the Wang calculator was right and the book was wrong and Wang's reputation in the financial industry was made.
Wang abandoned calculators circa 1971, feeling that the had been commoditized. In retrospect, you could have an interesting debate on whether or not he was right. Seeing HP introduce a new one in 2003 has to make me think there was QUITE a bit of juice left in that market.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Did anyone else wait eagerly for the new EduCalc catalog? Did anyone else actuall use the included metal plate that came with the GX and get it engraved and put on the back of the calculator? Was anyone else as absolutely dorky as me and name your HP48 and have that name engraved on the Calc?
This thing was loads of fun, it made calculus 10x more fun than it already was, it was the first thing I started hacking on, and I'm a bit sad that I don't have a job today that requires me to use the HP anymore.
yup, I'm a total dork. I just thought I'd share.
Revolutions are never about freedom or justice. They're about who's going to be top dog. -- Kilgore Trout
I remember coveting a 38D (or two) in high school.
Geez, I'm sorry. It is a Monday after all.
--- Ban humanity.
Myself. TIs. Like.
Myself. Notation. Acclimated.
God is real unless declared integer
...or they'd be suing HP customers for licencing fees. After all, if the comments match up...
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
HP needs to just call it quits and make a decent graphing program (or official hp emulator) for PPCs and sell it for a reasonable price (say, $49.95). Heck of a lot cheaper/easier/more profitable than producing hardware, just ask Sega.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
I still use a calculator to do the basic stuff (+-*/) to make sure I don't drop something; but, It never made any sense, to me, to not do the math. Calculators often find solutions through iteration, while, doing the calculus on paper often results in a simple, more direct solution.
What's wrong with PocketPC? I actually tried using one, for a calculator as well as in general, and the answer is that a lot is wrong. The big issue is, of course, no keypad. Fast, efficiant data entry is impossible on the very tiny PPC screen tapping with a stylus. A calculator that takes two hands and visual focus on the screen (instead of the information you are entering) to use is virtually useless for many applications.
The PPC also has issues of reliability with fairly delicate hardware contrasted with much tougher (mainly due to simplicity) calculators. The calc is instant on, and never requires closing apps to free enough memory or even the 3 seconds to switch to the calculator app. Battery life is another issue. Most PPCs will only give you around 4 hours of heavy use, and with the models I have been issued can be an optomistic estimate. They also require frequent charging. When you use a calc a lot, you can't wait a few hours for charging after you've been using it a while.
For a person who uses a calculator a couple of times a month, there are excellant emulators on the PPC (and one on PalmOS, where someone could get a faster seeming, sturdier device with much longer battery life to run it) that could substitute. For anyone who uses a calculator for serious work in school or in their job, it just isn't up to the job.
Oh, and it is profitable. The HP12C is the standard calculator in the financial industry (though TI is making inroads, finally), sells for $70, and the design hasn't changed since 1981. They make stacks of money off that one. Calculator hardware can be profitable, it just has to be the perfect tool for the job.
Well I'm the doctor and I say you're dead, so shut up and take it like a man!
The vintage, pre-Carly HP calculators currently fetch $$$ on eBay. The few new ones, such as the 49G and this 'high-end' one, look like crappy TI knockoffs.
I've tried the emulators. They suck compared to having the real keyboard of the HP48, not to mention the fact that the screen is crammed into a much smaller space, etc.
As far as the various other graphing calculator programs you can download, they have no more than 2-3% of the features of the HP-48 series machines.
The fact is that nothing is as good as a piece of hardware that is dedicated to the purpose of being a first rate calculator.
For many people the HP 48/49 machines are overkill and the programs that provide low-end calculators are fine. But if you really need the real capability of an HP-48 series machine a Pocket PC isn't going to do it.
I fucked your mom.
No, he's been posting that for a couple days now on various stories.
Having attended (and completed) an engineering college, TI vs. HP was a topic of moderately fierce debate (akin to VI vs. Emacs). Overall, mechanical engineering students preferred TI while Electrical and Computer Engineering students preferred HP. I think a lot of it had to do with the HP's great interface for handling complex numbers (which Electrical/Computer Engineering students need to do lots of), but the HP's had much more of a learning curve. You had to learn how to 'think' in HP, which was not always comfortable at first, but I would stack up my ability to crunch through calculations with an HP to anyone with a TI.
VI vs. Emacs probably isn't a fair comparison. It's more like VI vs. MS Notepad. Ever try to convince a Windows diehard why VI is better than notepad? That's what it's like trying to convert at TI user to HP.
char *mySig;
Eventually upgraded to an HP-15C in high school, and I haven't bought a calculator since (almost 25 years ago). The 15C is still sitting at my desk at home.
Damn, I feel old.
I mod down all the "free iPod"-sig losers.
HP's are purchased mainly by students--especially engineering students. Many engineering classes are extremely calculator-intensive (eg circuits, mechanics of solids, linear algebra). This will sound silly to someone who hasn't been through it, but an engineering student MASTERS his calculator (not every function, but becoming very fast with the parts he needs). The HP graphing calculators are VERY tough to beat in the speed with which a proficient user can crunch through numbers. If you're paying $80k for an engineering degree, you want a dedicated piece of hardware for the task--and you DON'T want to be messing around with a stylus when the prof says "2 minutes left."
For most users, I agree with you. However, these calculators aren't for "most users" to begin with.
char *mySig;
And I still can't get my checkbook to balance.
Anyone as eager to see and learn about these as I am will want to attend HHC2003 in the Los Angeles area on Sept 20 & 21. Conference details here. Be there and be square!
My 32SII started freakin' out about a week ago, so I went looking for a replacement. None to be found.
So, I emailed HP yesterday, and inquired about it.
The guy replied back that among the new advanced calculators coming out is a 32SII replacement.
This is great.
While I like the 48 (using a 48GX now..), the 32SII is fast, lean and mean. for what I do (civil engineering), if you can't do it on a 32SII, you might as well fire up the computer and Excel.
I think I need a new sig here.
The first thing I thought when I read "75MHz ARM9, USB Port, IrDA compatibility, 128x80 display, and a slot for SD cards." was: Does it play MP3s?
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
It's not open-source, but LyME is very nice for matrix computation on PalmOS.
While it looks 'cool', for marketing reasons, it doesn't look functional for hardcore daily usage..
Perhaps you can get used to it, but its really hard to beat the layout of a HP41 for heavy use.
That aside, features look great. And its great to see HP is still out there in the market.. i was getting worried.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
It's called Xpander
http://www.saltire.com/samples.html
it originally was going to be a PDA calculator, but HP canned it (along with the rest of their calculator division) and Saltire released this as freeware. Enjoy!
This is an awesome proggie for your Hi-Res PalmOS devices, and emulates the Saturn Processor, with all the functions of your favorite HP Calc... i've been using it for a couple of days only, and i can see the native ARM support on the Tungsten devices produces results even faster than the actual calc.
It actually emulates the Processor, and runs off a HP ROM, so, everything is there.. give it a spin!
GPL'd Too!... (not the roms, Though)
*shower*
(Seems like all the people who gave a damn about quality went over to Agilent, who still make some nice gear).
They did, but it seems that all their newest stuff is running Windows, so I guess they've given up on quality.
For those of us who aren't math geeks: What is Reverse Polish Notation?
I am pro-lifechoice.
I hated it when the 48's came out. You had to type so many shift-alt-ctrl keys to do anything useful. I had a 28s at the time and though its graphics capabilities and calculus were weak in comparison, its data entry was much better because of the hinged design that allowed more keys. Sad to say however, that I have almost no use for one anymore since turning from EE to software engineering. Man, I was fast on my 28s!
Even more appropriate, Linux vs. Windows
Linux is a bitch to learn, but once you feel the power and get accustomed to the system, few people ever want to go back.
It's the same with HP48s and RPN - RPN is *weird* and does take time to learn, but anyone who learns it usually swears by it and never wants to go back.
I like being able to put 5 numbers on the stack and then keep hitting + to add them up, rather than 5 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 219092 + 329230, etc.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It was interesting to follow the debate about why anyone would want to buy a calculator if they own a PDA. My "take" is from the opposite angle: Why would anyone want to buy yet-another gadget if they need a high-end calculator first-and-foremost, and HP's alleged new calculator is now powerful enough to be a PDA too? The sad thing is that I have a calculator that lives on my desk, one that lives at home, and ever since I got burned by being an Apple Newton "early adopter," (weren't we all?) I was never inspired to go out and buy a "Palm." If I could buy an HP calculator that doubled as a PDA, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Instead of living on my desk, it would live in my pocket. --Tim P.S. If "virtual" calculators are so good (after all, my Windows PC has one, right?) then why do I still have a calculator that permanently lives between my computer keyboard and my monitor, and it rarely gets covered with paper?
My first HP (got as a high school graduation present in '87) was an HP41CV. I still have it at home and it still works great. My current calculator is an HP42s. I'm an Engineer and both do a perfectly adequate job for me (maybe I'm a poor engineer that I don't need any more 'power').
Everyone seems to be commenting on how relaible old HP calcs were. The real story is that a calcuclator even a graphing one requires a 32bit 75MHz processor. This blows my mind why does a calculator need a 75MHz processor. ARM9 is way overkill they should have, assuming that they really wanted to use an ARM stick with the ARM7 which is fine for basic computation it just misses the support for caches and longer pipelines. The ARM7 is smaller (smaller die lower cost), and lower power (longer battery life). Hardware design seems to be more about bragging rights that producing a good product. The SW guys all want to use C++ so they don't have to understand the processor, C++ is ussually 20-30% slower than C and 100-400% slower than assembly and assembly is what a calculator's code should be written in.
But easier to keep track of. I like being able to make sure I've got all the numbers I want and no dupes before adding them all up.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
The size is perfect in that you can leave a card in a device and forget about it, like the 256mb one in my Zaurus. Compared to the expansion cards for the hp48, these things are cheap as hell.
The Zaurus developers had a great idea when they decided to include both SD and CF slots, so that I can have tons of storage as well as wifi access.
I really hoped HP would include a lot more ram, or some form of UNIX behind the scenes. I suspect that the HP49 rom that is being emulated can't handle more ram because the Saturn chip was limited to a meganibble.
A 49gx will come along soon enough. With luck, they'll give it a metal case, 64mb of ram, a CF cardslot, the ability to boot memory cards, and a 400mhz processor.
Does anyone know of a graphing calculator style keyboard I could use with my zaurus? I could use the numeric keypad from my Apple Macintosh 512ke, but I prefer something lighter. Maybe I could sacrifice my 48sx for one...
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Many PDAs use covers to cover the screen and protect it. If a company made software for a calculator for a PDA and sold a kind of clear plastic cover for it with dedicated calculator buttons that press down on the touch screen, it would make PDAs much more attrative for this use. I am suprised no company has thought of this idea.
The range of the HP48/9 series with IR is short without modification; typically on the order of inches. In my experience it is almost impossible to get the various range hacks (hard ware and/or software) to work in a non obvious manner. The 2 calculators have to be pointed at each other and buttons pushed; hard for an observant proctor to miss.
48 vs 49
I have a 48GX with cards and a 49G; while the 49G has a few % more features and much more memory, it is slower with the added GUI features. In short, I would recommend that if you prefer command line to GUI then go 48. Of course the new faster processor may change much of that.
My 48GX is the reason I passed my calculus classes in college. If I had not had it, I WOULD not have passed. Best purchase I made during college.
Yer just reminding me of how badly I miss a good solid HP calculator with RPN functionality!
My old HP-15C got flaky years ago.
For a short time, I ran xhpcalc, an X11 application that looked and functioned almost exactly like one of those nice classics but only ran on old versions of HP/UX.
Now, I have to put up with Gnome or KDE calculators that are no where near as nice!
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Those TI owning flunkies think they're so smart. The truth is those rpn challenged mouth breathers are going to be out on their ass in four years and habitually unemployed.
This is hpcalc.org, a fan site, not hp.com. 10 to 1 says its a hoax.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Later in the year, look for powerful new offerings in our engineering and scientific models, which will include graphing, expanded memory for storing complex equations, greater programmability and connectivity. These models will be offered at several different price points in order to give our customers more options and more value.
and the spreadsheet indicates that models 33S (maybe a successor of the 32sii, YAY!), 19BII, 17BII, 39G+, and 49G+ will be available by the end of this year.
I've read that several times today, but nobody seems to back it up with anything other than a preference for RPN. Are there mathematical operations you use frequently that are unavailable on TI calculators? Do you notice a speed difference? Precision / accuracy issues?
As for RPN... looking at ticalc.org I can see 6 different RPN programs/environments available for the TI-89 (No, I have not tried any of them).
This is enough to make it worthy.
I wasted many hours of what should have been productive time in the library due to this easter egg...
Yes, my graphing calculator is a Libretto running Mathcad and Excel.
And this is a specialty item, a rugged, heavy-duty calculator with a very nice keypad, not a flimsy cookie-cutter Wintel PocketPC.
Can it run SkiFree?
At least that's what slashdot told me Nov. 2001...
here
About ten years ago, when I was still in grad school, I had a break-in at my apartment and my backpack, containing my 11C, was stolen. Fortunately, I had insurance with replacement value. When I reported it to my agent, he asked for a receipt (didn't have any more; I bought way back in college) or the manual (not just the cover, but the whole thing). (He was probably also wondering why the hell I wanted $90 for a calculator.) When he received it, he called me up and asked, "What do you do?!" Wound up with a 48G. I still miss my 11C, though...
that's what i want .... tested and ported and working corectly... it does not even have to run Linux apps... just do the real world math and simulations we need!
The only other complaint I've seen is about a non-1:1 aspect ratio to screen for graphic. Makes graphing circles weird (they look more oval). Otherwise, I used to be able to do calculations on my old TI-85 faster than the RPN people. All in what you're used to.
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
In engineering classes, it would have been unthinkable to take a test without a graphing calculator.
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
Perhaps I don't understand: as a CS major at an engineering school (Rolla actually, the school that won the 2003 American Solar Challenge) I was required to have a minor in math. I took more math than any of the engineers, including the EEs. In all honesty I used my HP 48G very little: oh sure I'd verify some calculations, but I vary rarely sat there and use it on every problem.
Some of the complaints have been about the battery life. While I'll agree the battery life of a PocketPC is no where near as good as a HP calculator a PPC is treated differently than a calculator. You'll probably sit down and sync/charge a PPC once every day or so, not like a HP where you'll replace the batteries every few months. And a PPC will last several hours on a charge, plenty of time to crunch numbers until the next overnight charging.
Just because "you're" paying 80k for a engineering degree doesn't mean you have money to blow. Think you'll find plenty of engineering students without a $1 in their pocket at many of America's top colleges. I would have been very happy to use the money I spent on my HP 48G to buy a PPC that could also play games, movies, mp3s, organize my schedule and even write notes on.
Perhaps if I took engineering classes I would have used it more, but if you're just buying it for your average Calculus I/II/III, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations classes then a PPC with HP emulator should suffice.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Search hpcalc.org for doom