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Agenda's Linux Based Handheld
ebroo writes: "The Linux Agenda VR3 handheld from Agenda Computing just so happens to be Linux based." Not nearly as impressive as the iPaq which I've now seen running X with handwriting recognition, but much more practical and very inexpensive. I'm not sure if you can actually buy one yet tho...
(Why) not just port Linux to existing PDAs? ... what about for PalmOS?
There is a Palm port of Linux. Actually, the CLinux is for CPU's without a memory management unit, like the Motorola Dragonball processor.
Didn't this get reported earlier?
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The main advantage I see this device having over Palm is in the realm of development. Palm development seems to require an expensive IDE to code in. There will be a multitude of open source IDEs developed for the Agenda platform. Tons of us geeks will flock to Linux PDA development once devices are released. When it comes down to it, people love free software. I dont wanna pay 10.00 for every little utility that someone writes [like you have to for most palm apps]. So I'd like to either write them myself, or have another developer out there make an open-source version.
-=MeMpHiStO=-PalmOS is able to interrupt the current process with reminders from the calendar and low battery warnings and things like that. What keeps this from being a true multi tasking system is that you must dismiss any warnings that it might throw at you before going back to whatever it is that you were doing. This sort of system is equivalent to the TSR programs that were popular back in the days when everyone used DOS. (hmmmmm.... nothing like pressing ctrl+alt+T so play tetris)
________________
They're - They are
Their - Belonging to them
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
To guy with one in his pants pocket:
So, do you have a hidden Agenda (or are you just glad to see me?)
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SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not nuts? what would be the point of open-source, etc. if the OS was burnt permanently into ROM?
Without the pad, it's not Dance Dance Revolution, it's Listen
First off, I have a gripe. The iPaq is NOT running X. It outputs directly to a frame buffer. Why would you want to run X? Now, forget the damn agenda. Why bother? The hardware is WAY too underwhelming, it doesn't exactly work yet, and why the hell do you want a full distro on your handheld. pocektlinux. I wish I was as smart as these guys.
My other computer is your Windows box
Probably not. My one beef with my otherwise flawless (IMHO) Visor is that the Palm OS is in ROM, so screwing with the OS is pretty much out of the question, 'cept patch updates installed in RAM.
Without the pad, it's not Dance Dance Revolution, it's Listen
I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Linux, for the desktop, isn't ready for your plam. Which is why the Agenda is no good. However, Linux can work, if it's implemented correctly. Which is why (sigh) the PocketLinux guys kick ass. They did it and they did it RIGHT. Watch out palm. . .
My other computer is your Windows box
Two of the many projects can be found here and here.
However things have been moving more slowly with the new chips on the 5mx (see the mailing list).
You can of course connect your psion 3 or 5 to your Linux desktop, without supplanting your PDA's OS.
Derwen
http://fsfeurope.org/
Well, firt you have to get to know something before you can coment on it. People at Palm made gcc SDK available, so only thing you need is a text editor (and gcc :). I haven't done much developing (just a few no use applications) But i can say developing is not hard if you know C.
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possibly one of the most useful aspects of the palm is the emulator. I'd add that to the list as well.
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
They've been doing that for years!
Not that that's a bad thing, of course...
Can't buy either of them yet. I know how you feel, though... hard not to drool...
-FortKnox
-- "Almost everyone is an idiot. If you think I'm exaggerating, then you're one of them."
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
(They) use an unusual RISC processor for the CPU
MIPS Processor is hardly unusual. See the spec at http://www.agendacomputing.com/products/system.jsp #spec.
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rooooar
I got my first Palm about a year ago. I wanted a spreadsheet for it: Nothing free. OK, I'll write my own. After a week or so of looking around and reading, I had some programming docs and managed to get a very simple Hello World working. Then I was busy moving cross country and stopped.
Then I got a new Palm and bought the "Palm Programming" book from OReilly. Worked for a couple of weeks, but couldn't get a spreadsheet put together. The only chapter that deals with tables has maybe 20 pages total and doesn't have any real examples. Book returned. Also note: Figuring out which Linux-based GNU dev tools are the right ones is....non-trivial.
I also found a single slide from a slideshow at Palm's Dev site that mentioned tables. To paraphrase: "Not recommended for a spreadsheet app". OK, but what is?
Meanwhile, on my desktop I hacked a (very) simple spreadsheet engine together in about 2 hours. Yes, two hours. But I can't put a UI on my Palm and I don't need a spreadsheet on my desktop.
Which brings me to my question: Will developing for the Agenda be any simpler than for the Palm because it is using Linux? If so, I'll switch in a New York minute ("compatibility" is not an issue for me). (My other question is, HowTF am I supposed to get a free spreadsheet on my Palm?)
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
With 8 meg ROM and 2 meg RAM, how can you add your own 'stuff' to the box, other than data.
If they want to support the Open Source market, they have to have something to sync *TO*. And, at this time there are MANY different things to sync to.
One thing that has NOT been pressed is the GPL in the embedded market. Here is an example of an embedded GPL box where no source has been released. To date, no action on getting the source.
It would be nice to think the GPL/Linux will protect developers who choose to develop for Unix-based PDA's, but without access to source, you run the risk of being Steve'd...just like the Newton developers did.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I saw on their product specs that it has 16-greys, so its not quite just black & white:
240x160 pixels monochrome LCD, 16 grey scale, 2¼" x 3¼" viewable area
Without 802.11 this thing is pretty much useless to myself and most of my colleagues. It's not fast, but it works perfectly well. Why aren't they supporting it?
Screw Micro$oft.
Who is going to buy this thing? Windows users? I think not.
| Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
I thought the "sync" was referring to address book and appointments. But it wasn't described. I'm inferring this from the separate mention of email.
Not quite as nice as YOPY in my opinion.
Yopy rules!
-FortKnox
-- "Almost everyone is an idiot. If you think I'm exaggerating, then you're one of them."
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Looks nice, but it doesn't include software to sync with anything but Outlook on Windows.
That's bad.
You have it backwards, I think. I think Microwriter is the name of that old UK company, and AgendA is the name of their little computer. If you look at this picture with the chording keyboard highlighted, and the screen shows this is not just a keyboard. [The above phrasing was awkward, and still doesn't make clear to all readers that we're talking about an apparently unrelated keyboard/computer which has nothing to do with the Agenda Linux PDA which is the main thread. Search engine users should follow links to the main thread.]
Actually, looking at both sites and comparing the two units on features, the Agenda seems to beat the VTech in almost every area of hardware. And on software, VTech doesn't even acknowledge the existence of PocketLinux, whereas for the Agenda, Linux is a feature they're proud of. [As you can see, I'm ignoring the iPAQ entirely --- I consider a PDA that you have to recharge every day as worthless. The 2 AAA batteries in my Palm last 3 months.]
Given the above, what was the basis for your statement suggesting the opposite?
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Now Slashdot is pushing an Agenda...
Other not-so-great lines:
At a meeting: Did everyone bring an Agenda?
After clear cases come out: Your Agenda is transparent
Man with pink handheld: Agenda Benda
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
I couldn't agree more with all your points, especially the importance of battery life --- the iPAQ is packed with features, yet it would be totally worthless to me because it needs recharging every day. The Agenda doesn't make that mistake.
... are you suggesting to replace X11 with Squeak? What an intriguing idea. Among other benefits, it ought to cut down app size by at least 2 orders of magnitude.
Hmmm
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
It's incredible. Here everybody hailing the introduction of new Linux handhelds, yet just a few months ago, they flambayed WindowsCE for being to bulky and cumbersome. As far as I can see, there is no difference in terms of interface between the Linux handhelds and the WinCE ones. These things have to be judged on their merits, not the fact that they use Linux. The fact remains that these things will not be usefull until they figure out a decent interface. The current interfaces simply don't work on a handheld. This is evidanced by limp sales of WinCE. Even MS realizes this and is taking steps to changes it. Whether or not a name-change constitutes acceptable changes is irrelevant. At least they realize there is a problem. (That was a joke, laugh) If these new handhelds don't get clever, intuitive interfaces (just rip of Palm, it's so much easier then designing your own!) then they will have limp sales, whether or not they use Linux.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Would be very interesting to know if there's support for nfs-mounting the palm's file system.
it's great to see yet another alternative to the palm. it looks as though it has decent apps, and a great starting price tag, plus it looks cool. although wireless internet is something this device lacks. oh well, guess i'm stuck w/ my Palm VII for now (which isnt' TRUE wireless internet either, but good enough for me, for now).
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This Post has been brought to you by the letter "E".
Its funny to see a slashdot user say that linux isn't good for some platform. I have the frame of mind that, initially, it might not be the best, but because of it being open sourced, and having thousands of developers, it will become the best for what people use it for.
/usr/src/sys/arch | grep ^d | grep -v CVS | wc -l says 35). In order to even write applications for this new platform, you're really going to have to buy one yourself, because the platform is so drastically different from a standard Linux machine, and that's a pretty major barrier.
And, since the point of a PDA is for it to work quickly and behave as if it were a notepad, addressbook, etcetera, from where do you expect those thousands of developers to arise?
I have a palm. I use it a lot. I'm not about to replace it with something less useable that maybe has a touch more hack value. These things are not computers, and treating the market the same way is a mistake.
So, I'm not interested, but maybe other people will be? I doubt it. I'm an active contributer to NetBSD. I've whacked away mostly at making extraneous things behave on the macppc port. There are fewer active developers of the port than I can count on two hands. Definitely not thousands.
I'll grant you that I'm not talking about Linux, but development of NetBSD functions along similar principles... principles that are perhaps more applicable to the porting-[insert OS here]-to-a-PDA discussion, considering the number of platforms on which NetBSD runs (ls -l
Especially for those of us perfectly content with PalmOS's functionality... things are pretty much right with it already, why change?
Do you have a
The one tidbit of information I couldn't find is the expected battery life. My Handspring Visor, with the energy conserving PalmOS, lasts for weeks on end on two AAAs. I know that beasts with bigger processors, conventional OS's, etc. tend to suck up power more quickly. This seems to fall into this latter category.
Its does telent and ftp and you can drop to bash and use handwriting recongition on the CL.
Sure, you get decent power and an open source (insert obligatory drooling here) operating system, but what else? <snip>
Not to be too rude, but that's the whole point of the open source movement. Sure, its not the absolute best as far as things like app size, but linux has just been introduced to the PDA industry. You give it a year, and it'll top all categories (including size of apps), because of the open source alone.
Its funny to see a slashdot user say that linux isn't good for some platform. I have the frame of mind that, initially, it might not be the best, but because of it being open sourced, and having thousands of developers, it will become the best for what people use it for.
Please don't hurt me for my opinion,
FortKnox
-- "Almost everyone is an idiot. If you think I'm exaggerating, then you're one of them."
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
So. If this thing runs linux, and linux is GPL, they have to make available the source for the device's OS, right?
So if the full source is available for the thing, does that mean Random Q. Hacker might be able to code and compile his own OS for the device, from scratch? For example, to make something more Palm-OS-ish? Maybe implement a Mach or ExoKernel on the thing?
Or maybe something less extreme: Allowing hackers to help improve the OS to solve some of the gripes that you see posted here about an otherwise very open and cool-looking device?
I'd be interested in it just for the hack value!
I could have sworn I looked at this yesterday or the day before... but maybe I am pshycic...
You are 100% correct, it was one of a number of links that were in this article on August 16, on the LinuxWorld festivities.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who was experiencing deja vu on this article.
- Mike
Is the handwritting on this:
1) A draw app that keeps your scrawling
2) A graffiti-like 'learn a special alphabet'
3) NI's rosetta code (printing handwriting engine)
4) Callifiger's cursive engine
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Actually, I'm looking for hotsynch for it for an IBM 7040/7044. I can probably port the Fortran version from my SDS 940 though. Truthfully, I never actually worked on an AS/400, just screenscraped from them on OS/2. That was enough.
-=Maggie Leber=-
I can suggest you 2 alternatives :
- Buy a second-hand Atari Portfolio
- Buy a Palm Pilot and replace all with LispMe
You see, the world just happens to be a bit more colorfull than your Black'n White manicheanism.--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Maybe Linux PDA's will have some success with the geeky crowd, but I've seen what will turn the Pocket PC into a mainstream product:
MS Reader. You can forget Pocket Word, Pocket Excel an Pocket whatever, they are a pain to use. But unless someone develops an ebook reader capable of reading (not necessarily open)standards compliant ebooks, MS will have for itself this portion of the pie.
MS Reader is really the killer app for this kind of devices.
And I doubt gecko would fit on a PDA (though they made it fit on a floppy... maybe there's still hope)
Actually, Palm/USRobotics/3Com never created a compiler. PalmOS apps are cross compiled using the standard version of gcc or the MetroWorks CodeWarrior tools.
... add a gui toolkit that doesn't need C++ and doesn't have all the overhead of X and Linux PDA apps could easily rival their PalmOS counterparts in terms of size.
The thing that keeps PalmOS apps small is the the fact that they are straight C code (no C++ inheritance bloat) and the fact that the OS does a very good job of providing all the basic functionality. Everything from GUI controls to strcpy are provided via OS calls. If Linux PDA's are to succeed, someone needs to create a good shared library that provides 90% of the core functionality that a PDA app needs.
libc gets you part way there (though a hacked down version would be a good idea)
Nonsence, most 66MHz processors are more than capable of running X windows. I have a 66MHz 486DX in the next room which does a perfectly adequate job (although not at 1600x1200 x32bit - obviously). At quarter vga mono, it would have no trouble. X windows was around well before 66MHz processors were, even in desktops.
John
I saw pocketlinux At the linuxworld Expo and i saw Cmd taco there scoping it out, (BTW if you havent seen it or the screenshots check it out talk about compeling, Its lightning fast and really cool runing a 2.4 debian kernal, www.PocketLinux.com.) So i pose this question to the slashdot community What did agenda do for not 1 but 2 post's on its inferior vaporware, pocketlinux is available for download today for free! just a note for those intrested I checked the specs on pocketlinux's develplatform, the vtech helio, its faster then the agenda 75mhz mipps in the helio 66mhz in the VR3
I was wrong about the iPaq not running X. It's just that the one I saw doesn't run X. My bad. And I humbly apologize to anyone who sold stock or divorced their significant other due to the fact that I had incorrect information on my post.
My other computer is your Windows box
> don't think your gonna beable to telnet/ssh
Actually you can do both on Palms.
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blinko - "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down"
The program hasn't been updated in a long time, but it's free and it's a spreadsheet.
The iPAQ runs X?
I tried to find out more about the iPAQ but the links from this page were broken.
Does anybody have info on the iPAQ running X?
Vanguard
That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
System requirments for PC connection.
The bundled QuickSync software in Agenda synchronizes Outlook from the unit. QuickSync is compatible with any PC operating system that can run Outlook including Windows 95, 98, 2000, Windows NT 4.0 and Windows Millennium. QuickSync requires 2MB of hard drive space and 16MB RAM.
Why can't you sync this with linux. This shows how dedicated they are for opensource.
This is what the 2nd or third article basically stating the same thing about the Agenda. There's a lot more cool handheld stuff at LinuxWorld than the Agenda. I mean yeah it is cool but sheesh is slashdot part of the marketing arm of the Agenda? We lart Mickeysoft for vaporware and turn around and push Linux vaporware. Fo figure...
When you go to their website they say they don't have any in stock in my ZIP code, but they lied.
Looking forward to getting Linux on this thing.
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
I just bought an iPAQ, I was reading through all the old slashdot stories on them, and thought that's what I was posting to.
I didn't buy an Agenda. I'm hopelessly confused. I have too many browser windows open. Help me!
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
Its funny to see a slashdot user say that linux isn't good for some platform.
I've been a slashdot user for some time, and I use Linux regularly. I also have owned a Palm since before I started using Linux, and I have come to the conclusion that the explosion in Palm sales hasn't been due to whizbang features, good software, or the accessibility of the OS source. It's been about style, and popularity.
If all it took to win in the PDA market was a fast processor and some impress-your-friends functionality ("Look! The Star Wars trailer! Right here in the palm of my hand!") then WindowsCE would have walked away with the whole market years ago. Instead, Palm has introduced models at the low end to woo teenagers and college students, and models at the high end to attract fashion-conscious yuppies. You can even get a kit to mount your Palm in your luxury SUV or your golf cart. (I'm not kidding.) The OS is simple enough to use that you don't even have to worry about closing applications when you're done with them. Windows CE has had this problem until the most recent version. Desktop concepts of cascading menus, movable windows, and multiple-button clicking (how do I right-tap or middle-tap in X?) are lost on a pad-based device.
People already complain that too much software for Linux is really "Linux86," since it doesn't support SPARC, Alpha, or PPC. The pocket arena has a lot more limitations than any of those other desktop/server platforms. Don't expect to dump gcc on this thing and be able to compile programs right out of the box. In fact, with only 8MB of room, you wouldn't be able to fit very much source at all. Guess you'll have to hope it supports NFS mounting and networking -- over its serial port.
For more information, click here.
Now that J2ME is available for PalmOS, you should look into using Java to write your PalmOS spread-sheet. With tools like kAWT, there are plenty of widgets available.
OK, so, who cares? Why do I want Linux on my palm vs. Palm OS or MS? Why is this so great? Just because "Linux is cool!" , or "MS Sucks rocks!"? Are there any REAL reasons why Linux on handhelds is superior to anything else? Convince me... -- ... and I can't get up.
If Slashdot is where the spelling-challenged go when they die, I'm in heaven.
I wish they would get something like this for a 3 com Palm Pilot. I just spent $180 on mine.
Wasnt this all ready posted here(See LinuxPDA) just the other day? Wake up boys..
With PalmOS your applications are left in the state they were in when last in use. Yeah, they stop executing, but I've never really found that to be a problem. I can't imagine the utility of being able to run 2 applications at once on a screen that's only 240x160. At this screen size drag and drop between different application windows just won't happen anyway. Are you going to be able to do compiles in the background while doing something else in the foreground? I think not.
Best as I can tell Linux and multitasking are just buzzwords for the marketing folk. Sometimes you really need to pick the right tool for the job and it seems to me that PalmOS is the right tool for a long battery life palmtop/organizer type device.
________________
They're - They are
Their - Belonging to them
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
Be Inc. ported BeOS from PPC to x86 in a few months, kernel had to be rewrite, but all others apps onlt recompile. They even go from CodeWarrior in the R3 x86 release to elf GNU-C in R4 release, so i think their code is portable! You know, it's like QNX/NTO, it's "closed" but one QSSL engineer port NTO to the iMac in one week of spare time. This has nothing to do with open source.
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BeDevId 15453 - Download BeOS R5 Lite free!
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
I don't see how you arrived at the conclusion that they are just using linux as a marketing tool. I would not be surprised if that was a factor in their decision, but I would be extremely surprised if it was a major factor. The reasons I see for them choosing linux is that they don't have to pay licensing costs and they don't have they don't have to build an OS from the ground up. Also, the fact that it runs linux probably gives them a larger developer base than if they had used an in house developed OS.
>> :) Just because anything can happen won't mean that it will.
If it isn't available now, it will be eventually, as long as developers have interest.
>>
This vaguely reminds me of 'infinite monkeys, infinite keyboards, Shakespeare'
Eric ze Kidder
Now if there is a large number of developers that are interested in seeing linux on a PDA, then expect to see a small, compact, quick version of gcc that will create small, compact, quick programs. USRobotics created a small efficient compiler for Palm's apps, so some linux gurus will do the same for a linux PDA's apps.
My last post was about how that anything can happen with an open source project. If it isn't available now, it will be eventually, as long as developers have interest.
-FortKnox
-- "Almost everyone is an idiot. If you think I'm exaggerating, then you're one of them."
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
This device looks very promising as a Linux PDA. While I've seen plenty of posts from people whining about it's specs (66MHz CPU, 8MB RAM/2MB ROM, 16 shade greyscale screen at 240x160), they seem to be missing the point. The base model will cost $149! The iPAQ, Yopy, and other Linux-capable WinCE machines cost an order of magnitude more than $149.
That's it's strength, to me. I'd much rather have a small, cheap unit like this with OK battery life than an expensive, big (size and weight) and battery eating hog.
It's also as cheap as Palm and Visors cheapest offerings, but with a considerably faster CPU, more RAM and a bigger screen. Such is my argument (sans bigger screen) for another Linux capable PDA, the Helio.
I think it's pretty silly to put X on it, but I wouldn't call it a mistake, per se. Why? Because you can always take X off and put in Nano-X, Squeak, W, or Microwindows in instead.
Now, does anyone want to help me port Squeak to the Linux framebuffer for use on a PDA like this, so we can dump X?
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I asked the guy displaying it in LinuxWorld if they planned on having it be able to sync with Linux, and he said it would. I told him that if it didn't, I wouldn't be buying it. He was really positive that it would sync with Linux so maybe the web page is out of date...
First off, note that the palm uses a dragonball that was engineered to have extremely small code size (as well as have nifty built in abilities). The "66MHz 32 Bit NEC VR4181 MIPS" probably does not have that feature. In fact, if it bears reseblance to a MIPS processor, all its instructions should be 32bits in length; which has its benefits, but not in the realm of small code size.
My turn to nit-pick. But I think its all too often said that anything opensource will improve by its nature:
You give it a year, and it'll top all categories (including size of apps), because of the open source alone.
This is innaccurate of course, lets try something like: You give us a year, and it will top all categories (including size of apps), because of the open source programmers' dedication.
Now in light of this, does it become clear that if a couple hundred people own these, and most of them don't program, and the ones that do write apps, that the OS will not improve? I think so. What this needs it critical mass. The Palm has that, with or without open-source. Now its nice that if there were a critical mass, they could also work on the OS, but you'd better hope that work is done in a mildly centralized manner, particularly when considering changes that affect app size (binary compatibility issues?).
as long as developers have interest
No infinity with this in the statement statement.
-- "Almost everyone is an idiot. If you think I'm exaggerating, then you're one of them."
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
is a 66MHz 32 Bit NEC VR4181 MIPS, so i cannot run BeOS/BeIA on this thing :-(
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BeDevId 15453 - Download BeOS R5 Lite free!
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
I was looking through their website yesterday. looks like a really nice piece of hardware, but I don't think I'll go run out and buy one. no prices listed anywhere. if you dig around for a while, there are two models, one with a plastic case and one with a metal case. the metal case seems to have wireless connectivity to peripherals, like keyboards, etc. go look at the picture gallery. looks very cool tho'. one thing I wonder - linux has palm pilot emulators. couldn't someone install that on a linux handheld device and run palmOS programs?
All that glitters has a high refractive index.
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You see, without that little doohicky, the universe stops.
http://propheteer.org
These are supposed to be shipping in October according to the web site. There is also a reservation form you can fill out at the site but as far as I can tell its just a way for them to collect marketing data.
I browse with my threshold at 2 so I can't read my own comments :-)
User friendly applications
Super lightweight (4oz.)
High resolution LCD screen
Write on the entire screen
Backlit for low-light viewing
Extensive applications pre-loaded
Easy download of new applications
Open Linux O/S for unlimited new applications
Quicksync to PC with Rsync
E-mail and Net ready
Infrared transfer to other Agendas and Palm Pilot units
8MB RAM + 2MB Flash Storage on Agenda VR3
8MB RAM + 4MB Flash Storage on Agenda VR3+
8MB RAM + 8MB Flash Storage on Agenda VR3s
What it looks like
installed apps
Somehow I doubt PalmOS hardware could run Linux since it is slow. Linux is designed for a system with an always-on CPU, right?
...that this thing hotsyncs only with PCs so far? Seems kinda dumb. OTOH, Palms synch only with Windows, as shipped, so I guess I shouldn't whine.
-=Maggie Leber=-
ok, i don't think your gonna beable to telnet/ssh or get a web port on this thing...i think the whole linux thing is just a marketing tool. sure i may run on it...but in effect it's like a palm because thats whats successful...linux is the current marketing tool.
i don't want every toolbox in the country saying "i know how to run linux" because they have it on a handheld...damn i've had it for 3 years and i still have a hard time with it...sometimes
JediLuke
JediLuke
-Do or Do Not, There is no Try
This thing is not even related to PalmPilot, which the category would imply. There should be a more general category (handhelds etc.), now my opinion is that this falls under Linux-category.
Currently there are really many posts which clerly are about linux and , mostly about linux, put under category , and if you ignore linux posts (like I do) you still keep getting linux news.
The specs say it can interface with a direct serial connection. If you look at the screen it shows a terminal program. This would be a very useful tool for network administrators that have to always log in to a machine via serial to configure it. Right now i carry my laptop around and it is very large and clunky and i'd love to buy one of these to connect to routers or switches.
Also, it touts "multitasking" as one of the features, but who the hell needs multitasking on an organizer? It's not like I'm gonna be running Word on the thing.
66 MHz machines running X windows must be dog-slow, too.
- A.P.
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"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I mean isn't that the measure of any linux computer? With a 66mhz processor I can't see it being that fast but I also wonder how big its kernel is. I guess we shall see....
Telcos have alot of dark fibre in the States. Most people assume that's optical fibre...but it's actually moral fibre.
>f all it took to win in the PDA market was a fast processor and some impress-your-friends functionality ("Look! The Star Wars trailer! Right here in the palm of my hand!") then WindowsCE would have walked away with the whole market years ago.
And the Apple Newton, which existed before WinCE was able to play simpson and 1984 commericals on the handheld.
The market is about a price point. And at under $200, they have the price point.
>People already complain that too much software for Linux is really "Linux86," since it doesn't support SPARC, Alpha, or PPC.
Yes, and Windows NT suffered from this also.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I saw it posted on memepool.com the other day. Mmmm, that's a great site to suck up the hours.
I could have sworn I looked at this yesterday or the day before... but maybe I am pshycic...
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
This device is pretty comparable to a Palm (up to 8MB RAM, 240x160 16-grey display) but the fact that it runs Linux sets it apart from the other $149 PDA's on the market. However, you'll find that Linux is no better than CE when it comes to handheld applications. Sure, you get decent power and an open source (insert obligatory drooling here) operating system, but what else? The few applications written for this thing are HUGE compared to Palm apps. 96KB for a Minesweeper game, instead of 20KB on a Palm. 200KB for a scientific calculator? You'll burn through that RAM much quicker than with a Palm, and there aren't even as many apps for it (yet).
Remember that Microsoft promised compatibility between Win32 apps and WinCE apps, due to some libraries and function calls being similar. Why, then, do WinCE apps lag so far behind Palm apps in breadth of functionality and quality?
Not to mention that for the Linux geeks here that love to tinker with hardware, the Agenda VR3 offers just serial and IR ports for communication and expandability. The keyboard looks every bit as cheap as the one made for the Palm-ripoff Royal DaVinci, which can be had for about $100.
Sorry, folks. Open source isn't taking Palm's place any time soon.
For more information, click here.
- The devices are notacably smaller than the Palm III series, and even a little smaller than the Palm Vs. They are as thick as the Palm III, however.
- The devices use an unusual RISC processor for the CPU
- The devices use the FLTK toolkit, and any FLTK application for the Linux desktop should port reasonably easily to the Agenda.
- The application they were showing at the LWCE was a Bash shell, probably to prove these are really Linux machines.
- Input is via a on-screen QWERTY keyboard which is part of the display at the bottom. I hope it is possible to replace this keyboard by a Fitaly keyboard, or by one of the various handwriting reconition techniques.
- The devices will have 2 megs of flash and 8 mega of ram. The person showing off the unit was talking about it being possible to use the flash to store application and possibly data.
- The devices are expected to retail for $150
- They promise to release them around October
Also, PocketLinux was also at LWCE, and has struck a deal to make Linux available for a competing handheld computer (I forget the exact brand name).- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Who would ever seriously consider trying to port *or* run X on a PDA???
Is that not like trying to stuff 12 people in a phone booth? Its a trick... its a practical waste of hardware.
Oxryly
It looks good but it seems to basically be a Palm clone. Unless it can boast significant advantages because of it's Linux OS, I imagine that it would only appeal to those of us who just want to say, "Yes, it runs Linux"..
The Ipaq's advantage IMHO is that it hopefully would only take a recompile to port applications so we could use applications we are familiar with.
XMMS on my palm computer... Hmmmmmmmm....
These sound very much like the arguments for Linux vs. Windows a few years back. Based on previous experience, I predict that Linux-based PDA's will be a Palm killer (I don't feel that PocketPC really has a chance). Linux is going to get there, but it will take some time.
A really successful Linux PDA will have, in addition to the obvious advantages:
Once you have these, you have a killer - a perfect migration path from Palm to your PDA.
I wouldn't buy a Linux PDA now, but if I was in a need of a new PDA in a year, I might do that. At that time, the state of Linux PDAs won't equal that of Palm (software & hardware included). In two years, it might.
But not yet.
"The light at the end of the tunnel is undoubtedly the headlamp of an oncoming train." - Mrs. Murphy
Nifty Cheap Toys are ALWAYS good. $150 for a peice of paper is a great deal too.
;)
But anyway, it actually sounds interesting, it runs the 2.4 kernel and X.
Not to mention http://developer.agendacomputing.com/ appears to have documentation/tools eventually so you can write your own cheap little apps. Which I assume you wouldnt have to pay for. And if my memory serves me right, I seem to have heard that in order to write soft for Palm, you have to buy a slightly expensive SDK. (not sure about that though).
And its got a decent amount of ram too, and for some reason this interests me more than the VTech Helio which was also, advertized on slashdot not long ago
Klowner
[01S FOREVER]
if cows made chocolate milk, would we add chocolate to it to make chocolate chocolate milk? or attempt extracting it? I dunno..
Otherwise, I'd want one.
So the 'cool' factor is there, but how long will it take to get the wide variety of software that the PalmOS does?
There are two things that are important in politics. The first is money and I can't remember what the second one is. -- Ohio political boss and U.S. Senator Mark Hanna, 1895
Until I can buy one, it is still just vaporware.
Will be nice though...
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