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The LXer article states "...to educate newcomers with respect to the importance of keeping software free" but people, especially customers, don't like to be educated of something they don't care. What would you think if the car seller wants to educate you that 60mph are more than sufficiant for any driving? Would you buy a car there or leave for another shop?

O. Wyss

PS. See http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

2) Usability is not specifically an F/OSS problem - it is a software problem. There's a lot of crap software out there, that the vast majority of people never see (because it costs money). However, many people do see free / oss as it's (generally) availalbe free of charge.

I agree, usability is a software problem but it seems F/OSS is especially plagued by not usable. Just think, why still wish the majority of the Linux users none-free applications? Just look at the first top inhibitor for Linux adoption (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf). There must be a reason and what else could it be?

There are more proves just look at the sources (links) in this LXer article (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html). But what's more interesting how long it will take the F/OSS community to realize this fact.

O. Wyss

Okay, you've posted this link three times, and its still not at all clear to me what you're talking about.

Isn't it amazing that Linux fans don't grasp this? It seems impossible for them that even the majority of the Linux users still wish for Windows-only application (better said none-free applications). Sure enough none-Linux users all don't wish for none-free applications. The sole exception to this rule is so far Mozilla/Firefox. Doesn't this fact give you something to think about?

Unfortunately while the fact, thanks to the OSDL survey and thanks to other hints listed here (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html) is now proved there aren't many hints about why is it so. I've already suggested to OSDL to do another survey which hopefully lists the reasons but they failed to do anything so far.

Since I'm working on this subject since about 2000 I'm quite sure I've found a possible solution albeit I agree I can't prove it myself. But any sensible person understands that it's related to the look&feel of a Linux desktop and that definitely mostly means the look&feel of the applications. Just think why any other free application than Mozilla/Firefox hasn't gotten a bigger market share even if they cost less than the commercial applications?

How, exactly, do you expect a standards body to fix this problem?

Isn't that obvious? Assumed you don't believe me then the first task is to verify my reasoning, start a discussion about why and maybe do another survey. I'm sure the result will be just what I said but it seems you all need more reason.

If the first step proves I'm right then evaluate if wyoGuide is the way to go or if there are better ways. Maybe try to improve wyoGuide if it doesn't fit in all points. I again don't fear the outcome of this step.

Another if, if step two proves right, then these guidelines should be established and published as official Linux application guidelines. So far this won't have much implication except than to state the all the current used guideline failed and should be scraped.

So far the above three steps haven't solve the application problem but they set a corner stone where the solving may begin. On the other side these three steps don't cost anything except some time. Sure enough the real work starts now but without this official announcement this work won't start.

O. Wyss

B) download an app folder, drag it to your appliactions folder. go.

I don't remember when I suggested in the Linux kernel mailing list about creating Linux bundle file support in the kernel but it must be at least 4-5 years ago. Since nobody didn't recognize it's value then I haven't insisted.

I hope I don't have to repeat in a similar fashion the same in another few years about how to make the Linux desktop successful.

See http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

Yes and consistency can only be achieve by standardizing. Unfortunately this doesn't only hold true for the desktop, it's equally or even more important for the applications. So far Jim Zemlin, executive director of the Free Standards Group, doesn't seem to realize this else the FSG would have already standardized on a single set of application guidelines as outlined in wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/). Since this isn't the case so far we still have to wait for the breakthrough of the Linux desktop.

If anybody is interested in a Linux desktop and don't want to wait much longer, he should persuade the FSG to come to terms and at least delve and evaluate wyoGuide.

See also http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

O. Wyss

When do Linux fans realize that ordinary users just prefer usable application and don't care much about desktop? Just follow the links listed in this LXer article (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html) and you'll get prove that nothing is done to force a break through of the Linux desktop. I really hope that this is realized and taken care of by the vast majority of the Linux community one day.

O. Wyss

I agree , mysql can be used with many storage back-end (black hole anyone? :))
I thought they will use firebird/interbase like engine

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54927/index.h tml

You think that would work? The issue is the drivers for things like audio and video. Since the kernel is open source, as are virtually all drivers, it's easy for someone to code up an intercept within the kernel and replicate a perfect copy of the playing content out through another logical device where some other process is collecting a pristine copy.

In Windows, you won't be able to do that. And it will rat out any non-authorized driver you try to install, so the content won't play.

There is a way to do this without the software needing to be trusted. Of course Bill will be mad and Steve will throw another chair because Linux will be able to run open source programs that can play audio and video. The way is to do all the work in hardware (not in the application, or the OS, or even in BIOS). More details are in my original comment on this. One interesting thing is that this method even allows for legal content trading.

Don't hold your breath ... if the content industry were to ever get a clue. Of course that's not likely. But if they were to do something like I previously described, they could have a DRM that worked in Linux w/o any trusted software being needed because the software would only be touching encrypted content and encrypted authorization keys.

Doing DRM in hardware the right way would eliminate the need for software to have any major special capabilities, or licensing. The hardware would do the decrypting if it hard the right keys and authorization. All this could be provided by the software in a clear manner. DRM would only need to trust the hardware. It would not only be platform portable, but also even allow legal content file trading. More details are in my original comment. Of course, Microsoft's perspective is that DRM in software, exclusive to them, gives them leverage over Linux. And Linux being DRM-free gives it leverage over Windows.

The content industry could, if they wanted to, make DRM that really would work even on Linux. The problem right now is they are trying to do DRM as a software solution. This is likely because they were approached by a big software company in Redmond to do DRM in software, so that software company could do their own leveraging and push their own OS. Of course, that software company is prone to big blunders, so it's very unlikely to work. Had the content industry gone to a hardware solution, then they could have made DRM work on all operating systems, opened up a wider variety of playback programs, and even allowed legal trading! See my original comment on how that could have been made to work. Had they done that, then Linux would have been without its own leverage as a DRM-free OS.

There are already binary kernel modules. But that's really not relevant. It will get cracked, anyway. Of course they'd rather not let out the source, because that means the crack would be only hours away. With binary, it will be weeks.

If the DRM people really wanted a strong DRM system that is nearly impossible to crack, they would be it in hardware ... all of it. Software's role would then be just providing communication with the hardware, user interface, storage of the encrypted content and ... now get this ... legal trading. See my original comment on how that is possible.

So I think the red guy holding the pitchfork will be freezing his brass balls off before Linux gets DRM built into the kernel.

And there's no need to insult BSD :-)

A true hardware DRM solution would not have anything to do with the OS or BIOS. It would even be fully cross platform capable. To accomplish that, all you need to do is get rid of the people that are trying to design DRM to force everyone to use their product and no other. Then it can be a clean solution (despite the great dislike for DRM by myself and almost everyone else).

See my original comment on how DRM in hardware could be made to work.

Don't judge too harsh, BP doesn't have some millions left to drop into a project but has to earn some money. Don't under estimate the effect money has on the success of OpenSource projects. I guess there isn't a single top project which doesn't have a sponsor. Just see what happens to FreeBSD after the last sponsor left.

Besides just give me a few millions and I will fix Ubuntu's bug #1 (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1) at least to a certain extend (see http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml).

O. Wyss

I really hope Mark Shuttleworth makes any progress in solving Ubuntu Bug #1 (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1) albeit I fear he still needs several centuries at the current fixing rate.

See also http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

O. Wyss

Why not help?

I did, see http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects /2005-December/000349.html but they don't seems to be interested in my way to improve Linux.

See also http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

O. Wyss

It's a real connection.

Bruce

wait, so 2006 ISN'T the year of the desktop linux?

Does anybody know why? Read http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005. pdf

Or a possible solution? Read http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

O. Wyss

Um, not really. MS funding attack dogs against ODF or whatever is pretty plausible, mostly because it's true. There are also some articles that point out some neat ties between everybody's favorite monopoly and some influential people in a place called DC.

Um, not really. MS funding attack dogs against ODF or whatever is pretty plausible, mostly because it's true. There are also some articles that point out some neat ties between everybody's favorite monopoly and some influential people in a place called DC.

Bruce

Because the real problem is not so much the used framework but to use a single set of guidelines. The main obstacle of the Linux desktop is the usability, the look&feel of the applications. If one just uses 2 different applications on Linux, one most likely has to learn 2 different ways how to work with. If one uses 10 different application one doesn't have to learn 10 different ways but quite possible 5 to 7.

So I created wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) exactly for this, to finally have a single set of guidelines. And I designed wyoGuide to be cross-platform guidelines since no serious developer codes for a single platform these days. wyoGuide can and should be used on any platform with any framework and any language. Sure I do provide sample code written in C++ with wxWidgets but I'd love to put up others sample code as well. So far nobody familiar with other's framework volunteered.

To stress this point again, the Linux desktop won't become a success unless it can't be agreed on this single set of guidelines. It's possible that everybody sits together and designs yet another set but the outcome won't be much different than wyoGuide. On the other side wyoGuide is still work in progress and I'm open to any suggestion to make it more suitable for anybody.

If somebody doesn't believe me just read the LXer article here (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html) and follow the links to the sources. Or go and read the guidelines themselves at http://wyoguide.sourceforge.net/guidelines/content .html.

What I'm curious about is how the Portland project handles this info, the knew it since December 2005 (http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architect s/2005-December/000349.html), they seems to already have forgotten. I've also informed Novell and posted it to LinuxQuestions, almost no reaction. So what else can I do?

O. Wyss

Its all speculative but it sounds like this may have come from the same people who brought us the public character assasination of the former CIO of Massachusetts Peter Quinn (who proposed the adoption of an open document format).

Coincidentally personal attacks of character seem to happen a lot when dealing with Microsoft. Peculiarly though they all share the 'same theme' where they seem to only occur when Microsofts profits are at stake.

- There was a direct attack on the character of U.S. District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson (http://www.wired.com/news/antitrust/0,1551,45914, 00.html), who was judging the US anti-trust case against Microsoft.
- Microsoft also charged the EU Commission of conspiracy and collusion (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/02/1 957219) in its on going anti-trust court case.
- Another personal legal attack on "the Brazilian government official credited with developing the country's open source strategy" (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/50944/)

Just sounds like another case of an attack on a persons well-being for the sake of profits.

Since they started dumping money into political campaigns and hired their own lobbying group about ten years ago Microsoft has become one of the most generous contributors to politicians in the country:


LXer: How Microsoft wastes its money on anything but software
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/55497/index.h tml


Election 2004: How to Excel in DC
http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/0438/040922_news _microsoft.php


A Bug in Windows GOP (Seattle Weekly)
http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/0522/050601_news _microsoft.php


Microsoft And The G.O.P.: Antitrust Insurance?
http://www.time.com/time/reports/gatesbook/lobbyin g.html


Microsoft's lobbying efforts eclipse Enron
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-835267.html


Redmond | Feature Article: Following Microsoft's Money
http://redmondmag.com/features/article.asp?Editori alsID=440


News Alert 9/6/01: Microsoft
http://www.opensecrets.org/alerts/v6/alertv6_26.as p


Commentary: It's Back to Charm School for Microsoft
http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_45/b3654183.ht m


"The Think Tank As Flack" by David Callahan
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/1999/991 1.callahan.think.html

Windows is just so slow because all the virus protection sucks so much CPU and disk performance. When a scan is running halve the performance is lost. When a file is written you have to wait several seconds. Whenever the virus protection thinks it has to work anything the workstation slows to a crawl. I really would like to switch to Linux just because of a better protection, if only the applications there would be better usable (see http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml).

O. Wyss

If Novells means it serious they have to look into wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) for developing cross-platform binary applications and into Dojo toolkit (http://dojotoolkit.org/) for developing web applications. I'm quite sure these are the best way how to do cross-platform development. Besides this might lead to a new future where choosing any platform might not depend anymore on the availability of applications (see http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html.

For Linux fans read this LXer article (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html).

O. Wyss

Quote:
" Ubuntu, Macintosh and Windows XP

tadelste submitted by tadelste 21 hours 22 minutes ago (via http://lxer.com/module/newswir...)

If you think that a Linux advocate cannot make an objective analysis of desktop operating systems, then you need to read this report. You may find yourself surprised with some brutal honesty that leaves out the free software philosophy. Now we might see which fans are philosophically challenged."

A link would be useless as it's on the front page and the links are the same, ninth item down as of this moment. Hate to say it, but you obviously didn't look very closely.

Yes, I have a (relatively) low UID. I've been here for many years. /. is my home page. It has a /etc/hosts entry so when DNS is screwed up, I still have a place to go. I like it here, but I'm sick of ./ being polluted with trash from other sites.

Have I ever gamed the karma system? Sure, it's fun! But when I submit a link, its original and not ripped from the front page of a competing site. That is just totally lame, in my opinion.

I've made my point. I won't post anymore "Don't post Digg stories!" complaints. Maybe the editors will scan Digg before posting submissions? Perhaps they can scan /. while they're at it? :)

Why doesn't Novell look at its own Cool-Solutions web site (http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/16798 .html)? And why doesn't read Novell this LXer article (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html)? Then they would recogize their chance to overtake Microsoft. Sure enough they will anytime in the future but only after they have done their homework.

O. Wyss

Especially any distribution should closely read this article http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml if they want to improve.

O. Wyss

Second, it broke open source into two categories:infrastructure area (Linux, Apache, etc.) and higher ed specific applications (course management systems, finance systems, etc.).

All the negative impressions come from the application problem as outlined here http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml. Unfortunately as long as this problem exists it will influence the overall picture of OpenSource. Sad but unless this is not fixed OpenSource isn't ready for prime time.

O. Wyss

This article at LXer.com shows quite nicely where the problems with OSS lies. Read

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

As long as OSS doesn't conform to a single set of guidelines it won't be ready for anything and it's time to start to discuss which guidelines should be standardized. It might not be the ones stated in the article but this standardisation is essential for the success of OSS.

It strikes me curious why the authors choose Gimp and GnuCash as sample project to layout their theory. The ODSL survey (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf) proves that even Linux users still wish for Photoshop instead of Gimp and it proves together with the Novell's Cool-Solutions web site (http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/16798 .html) that users prefer other cash applications than GnuCash.

Does this prove that OpenSource development is wrong? Or is not done properly? I think not, the way how OpenSource development is done is fine but it shows some other problems. It shows that OpenSource development has a leader problem, a problem in which direction (towards which goal) the development should head.

So if OpenSource doesn't head into a common direction as e.g. outlined here (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html) I don't see a possibility how it can eventually overtake ClosedSource development.

O. Wyss

Mark is also the owner of the "Bug #1 in Ubuntu" (see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1) albeit he seems to make no progress at all. For further reading see article at http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml

O. Wyss

I can't believe that anybody can tell anything about the Linux desktop without reading the "ODSL Linux Desktop survey" (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005 .pdf) before! Else Jono Bacon would have known the first top inhibitor for the Linux desktop adoption is "Application support".

Read the article at LXer (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index. html) how to possibly solve it.

O. Wyss

Don't you think all this might be related?
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54909/

I agree, transparency is great. I can't wait for Microsoft to release full details of their lobbying efforts in Brussels and Washington.

There's no smoke and mirrors. He's just continuing to do what he has done for decades.

Everything with Microsoft is smoke and mirrors and that is Gates legacy. PR dressed as charity makes no ammends for a lifetime of lies and deciet, history should not be kind to Mr Gates.

How curious that you are currently modded interesting, interesting is how easily people excuse vile and illegal conduct.

The person submitting the article picked the wrong link out of another story. Glad it was me.

The person submitting the article picked the wrong link out of another story. Glad it was me.

You're correct. I wrote the article with the link and that doesn't have anything to do with the subject. The article that Playfully Clever should have submitted is this one:

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/48802/index.h tml

The RIAA - Hollywood - DRM - Linux Suicide Pact
"The entertainment industry has put itself on the fast-track to destruction, using well-proven tactics as explained in Preventing DVD Playback on Linux Like Prohibition in the 1920's. Are their heavy-handed tactics to lock up and control everything we touch signs of plain old human stubborness? Stupidity? Insanity? A bit of each? How else do you explain their inexplicable actions?"

Or it's just a coincidence.

The RIAA - Hollywood - DRM - Linux Suicide Pact

The majority of Web servers are Apache, and most of those are Linux .

All the insurance companies I have spoken with about network jobs, have
used IBM RS series or other similar IBM gear with cisco networking gear, not M$.

The city of houston as a whole ousted M$ out the door, it has moved to Linux .

Alcoa Aluminum, AutoZone, Bank of America, Bloomington, Indiana(city),
Boston Stock Exchange, Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., Cambridge Health Alliance (partially),
Chicago Mercantile Exchange, City of Austin, Tex, Cendant Corp., Capital Cardiology Associates, Albany,

That is just me making it to the letter "C" in the alphabet .

The remainder can be seen here :

http://lxer.com/module/db/viewby.php?dbn=12&sort=1 08&uid=108&offset=60

M$ as usual loves to use FUD, and so it shall continue to do so, and why ball-me(r)
said he was gonne kill google .

They can see the end coming, and are squirming in response to it .

To them I say, adios greedy capitalist billionaire dickheads .

Capitalism is fine, capitalism run amok is not .

Using millions or billions to pedal influence thru lobbyists to perfrom anti-trust
violations blatantly , and a myriad of other B$ maneuvers .

Its going to be a few years before Linux "wins" but the shift is under way .

Ex-MislTech

You DID know charitable contributions count towards tax breaks in the US, didn't you? Out of all Gates' billions stolen from you and me and every poor person on the planet, he donates a penny (to him) to get himself some extra tax-dodging ammo, and everybody fawns all over him like he was a Saint. PS, I installed a rootkit with this post, which writes the word "gullible" in your Windows system registry. Go look.

Here is a link where it is suggested Oracle might use MySQL to squeeze MS's SQL Server from above and below: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/45935/index.h tml

.... that major software companies advertising in Forbes like the FUD that he spewes (like his famous article stating that SCO will win against IBM).

I guess the Forbes corporate staff sees the value from pleasing those advertisers as more important than the harm such transparent lies do to the reputation of their magazine.

My guess is that the only reason Forbes keeps him is because their advertisers (including the obvious suspect) pay them to do so - no matter how much it harms Forbes's credibility.

Google is so simple that they could never cripple IE so it wouldn't render the html code correctly, without just maiming anything from www.google.com. That would be too easy to track down and get them in too much trouble. I've heard they're hurting Google with web bots that cause irrelevant pages to go up in score, something that a punk teenager could probably lose internet privileges over (see the section on Microsoft's Search Technology).

How long before people connect the "Gates"? From the "Preston, Gates" firm connecting Abramoff to the rest of the Republican indictment gang, to the "Gates" whose giant monopoly was released from liability by the Republicans?

I believe one facet of this case was Microsoft's intentional breaking of Win 3.1 under Dr. DOS, which had a decent marketshare and better product at the time. They wouldn't be out-designed so they decided to play the bully. Like a kid who wants something so bad he takes it when no one is looking.

Good for IBM, though the market has still not recovered - but yet we've got these goons in Washington taking fat checks to keep the monopoly going strong. This is no small problem, and it is only going to get worst without some corrective action from congress.