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Linspire CEO Considers CNR for Ubuntu
bored2k writes "Kevin Carmony, President and CEO of Linspire, Inc., is using the Ubuntu Forums to ask for input and explain why he thinks a popular and heavily focused on usability distribution like Ubuntu needs Linspire's $20 per-year CNR service. From what he says, both him and Mark Shuttleworth (Canonical/Ubuntu's founder) like the idea. Would CNR honestly help Ubuntu grow, or is it just a scheme to cash in on it's success?"
Nonsense. Ubuntu is free, and will always be free. Their principles state that there can't be "extra" versions that cost money in addition to the free version, too. CNR is nice, but it's not Ubuntu.
And would it have killed you to throw in some mention of what the hell a "CNR" is?
If a program called "Skype" can take off, or people will buy cars that have all kinds of entirely meaningless names, what can't Ubuntu be successful?
No! You will never stop me from "compiling linux tar file"! (Google "Lindows Rock")
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
What I want to know is why Sun doesn't get together with the Ubuntu team to create a package for the new JDK 1.5. They have a binary installer for Linux, why not have a '.deb' file for Ubuntu? It's free, you just have to click-through Sun's license to get it...
Because if we pretend hard enough that it's lack of Magic Polish that's holding back wider Linux adoption, maybe it'll become true.
(not trolling, at least not deliberately)
There are som things open source just cant supply legally. MP3, WMA, and some other media formats are amongst those. To be able to get those from CNR would be wonderful. CNR can license those things in another way than an open source dist can. It would be a nice complement and make it easier for the users.
HTTP/1.1 400
apt-get is darned easy to use, but there are many things available through CNR that aren't in the apt repositories. It is certainly a nice supplement.
Look at it this way; it is optional. If you don't want it, you are in exactly the same situation as before. If you do want it, you get something extra. It is a win-win situation; you either ignore it, or benefit from it.
> "Would CNR honestly help Ubuntu grow, or is it just a scheme to cash in on it's success?"
:)
Why can't it be both? Sheesh, you guys are so narrow minded!
I have zero personal interest in this, even though I like Ubuntu, but I can imagine many people who might find it useful.
One thing that I would be interested to see is if they can make CNR work (for its target audience) without Linspire's terrible always-run-as-root misfeature.
...one could always just get Linspire. it's a linux distro, KDE centric, well polished, reasonable fee for no BS apps. It's one of the attempts for "how do you make some loot from open source?"
You package it up, resolve as much of the headaches as you can, then ship it out below the cost of the all closed alternatives. Offer support, tweaks, upgrades. Just depends what your time is worth.
However, there is no reason why Ubuntu could not host Digitally Signed Shell Scripts ( DSSS ) on their website, and by default, include a MIME setting so that web-browsers will pass the script along to a plugin that checks that it has been signed by Ubuntu before executing the shell script. The script would then perform the one click download and install of the required software. The advantage of this is that the DSSS could be linked to by any Ubuntu website, FAQ , help, page etc.
Two precondition:
1) Ubuntu should not preselect any one service over another, but include scripts to install competeing services.
2) Any Ubuntu "affiliated service" that wants a Ubuntu DSSS would be required to sign an agreement to not use it to install any badware.
A quick and easy way to get licensed software (for a fee of course) without having to spend hours looking for unofficial versions. I'd go for it, if the price is right.
Well, that might be beacuse IT IS an African distro and a word in Zulu. As far as i know it was meant as its main goal to be a distro for Africans and the general popularity is just an added bonus. OSS tends to have silly sounding names in general. Ubuntu, other than sounding silly to someone unfamiliar with it also expresses the ideology behind the foundation.
It's been stated before, and I agree with it.
CNR is ok in Ubuntu, since the apt-tool will still be available, for the users amongst us that use Ubuntu and are very happy with it (like yours truly), CNR isn't going to be used. But for the other users who want more apps and easy of use, CNR is going to be the solution.
Personally I think Ubuntu is great as is, but adding new futures to it that make other people use Ubuntu too, is a great step forward.
I rm -rf
What does this story mean?? I do not speak your crazy pointy-haired manager moon language!!!
Here you go
I have mixed feelings about something like CNR, and perhaps it's because I don't fully understand it.
My impression is that it's like one-click shopping for sofware. Find software on a web browser, push a button, it gets installed, and you get billed. I guess that's ok, for someone who feels a little scared to type "emerge doom3". But that's not what I'd really like to get out of something like CNR.
First off, I like the idea of a subscription service. In these days of security issues, it's downright stupid to adopt a sales-without-service model for computers. Any computer which will be connected to a network needs some form of regular service plan. My mom's system runs "emerge sync" weekly, "glsa-check" nightly, and emails the results to me. Even if glsa-check is only tied into the portage database, and thus only does something new weekly, at least the nightly emails will nag me into taking care of it. When there's a security issue, I ssh in and fix it. When I visit, I bring her system fully up to date. That's a "policy."
I'd like to see some sort of update/security policy out of a service like CNR. In particular, something like emerge is very good about upgrading packages and identifying config files that may require updating. But it doesn't update them, it just tells you that it needs to be done. IMHO, THIS is where the real effort needs to be in a subscription service, in tweaking configuration files after update, yet not breaking the system.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Computer, User or household...
I have six Ubuntu boxes at home, would I be expected to pay $120 per year or would I be able to get away with just the one CNR subscription for the household?
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I fail to understand if you try to be funny or if you really don't know, what you are talking about. However...
"Ubuntu" _is_ a Zulu word. Ubuntu _was_ intended as an african Linux distribution. The essential meaning of "ubuntu" is "humannes", though that is rather simplified. It extended meaning is that "a human is a human being through other human beings". But even that is too simple. It also contains respect and concern for one's family, one's neighbors and is fundemantally inclusive, in strong contrast to the fundemantal exclusive of the western culture.
CNR for $20 / year for outdated software.
Or I can use Klik for free, which does the same thing, is constantly up to date, and is guarenteed to never interfere with my system since all the packages are installed in theor own chroot directories.
Why doesn't Ubunto adopt Klik? Is it just not as well known?
I believe the rationale for removing MP3 support "by default" from FC (and numerous other distributions) is that the MP3 patents are free for non-profit use. i.e. if you give your software away for free, no patent royalties apply (at least for players.)
But you say these OSes are free? Not quite, nothing in the GPL (or most other FOSS licenses) prevents you from selling something which includes the software. Take a look at cheapbytes.com, or any other company that sells pre-burned Linux distros on CDs. For these people, it would NOT be legal to sell a Linux distro that had MP3 playback support. This is why most distros don't include it on the default distro CDs but do include it in their repositories - It's not legal for the CD vendors to sell Linux distros with MP3 capability without royalties, but it is legal to have all the packages on a distribution mirror as long as you do not charge for access to that mirror, effectively "selling" the MP3 playback software.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Or at least a few of us did. I know I did. Carmony's ideas are grandiose and thoughtful, but they arent thought out properly. Right down to his inclusion of Doomsday (game dev yagisian noted that the game was not for commercial distribution, and Carmony had to turn around and eat his own words, something I personally loved to see). The idea of including CNR , a pay as you go service, into a fairly all inclusive project like Ubuntu would be at best asinine.
KingBahamut
Forum Moderator - ubuntuforums.org
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
I've been following the conversation at ubuntuforums.org with great interest, and, despite early pre/mis-conceptions as to what it's all about, I've got to say I like the idea. For myself, probably not, although if it comes with the same 15-day free run that Linspire users get, I may install it just to see if it lives up to the hype (and Kevin did hype it a lot). I'm fine with apt (and Synaptic, when I'm feeling particularly lazy), but this would be something I could easily reccommend to n00b friends. $20 a year is, I feel, a very reasonable price for the service.
I view this like I view Linspire's services in general. No one ends up there (or at least, no one should). But it's a bridge from MSFT-land for people who otherwise wouldn't come over at all, and I'm glad someone's out there doing it.
One objection that I heard a lot on the forum is "CNR's not open source!!" So fucking what, you goddamn zealot. Neither's the nvidia driver, and who here uses it? Thought so.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
These are all part of the "Golden Rule" which is a core part of Christianity, which was a core of traditional western culture.
But were not exclusive to Christianity, just as serfdom, slavery, prostitution and war were not exclusive to Christianity, or Western or most cultures.
What part of Yiddish do you consider "Western Culture" ? While there's been a minority of Jiddish-speaking people in "the West" for quite a few centuries, it's still a minority.
Or did you mean that while there's a Yiddish word that is similar in meaning to Ubuntu, and you couldn't find a word in English or another big European language, that doesn't matter, because Jesus talked a lot about how nice it'd be if we could all just get along?
At any rate I agree that gp's implied characterisation of "Western Culture" as being " fundemantally exclusive" might be a bit harsh. But it's been common practice to assume that corporate and capitalistic ideals (competiton, focus on improving your own situation at all costs) are the same ideals most people hold close to their heart in "the West". I think it's simplistic, and wrong. It's certainly hard to explain the success of movements such as GNU/FSF, and the relatively strong welfare states that exist in most of Europe from this perspective.
I am really considering putting Ubuntu on my Desktop. I think I have enough knowledge about it now (and I can run World of Warcraft via Wine =P) and I was going to use Ubuntu. Personally, $20 a year isn't that bad. If there will still be a free version, thats fine too. Windows costs what, $300 for XP Pro Full, and $200 for the upgrade version. I can go 10 years at $20 a year for Ubuntu for the price on an upgrade for Windows. I really like its free, but since I am used to paying a lot for an OS, a little money isn't such a bad thing. Though Linux is meant to be free, its hard to comtinue to operate on just donations. Plus, Ubuntu is awesome, they ship free CDs to people who want them. What a great service for free.
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
Is there a competing service to Click-N-Run? I was under the impression that Linspire was the only one out there providing that service to Linux users...
Comment of the year
Africa: the poster child for tolerance, inclusivism, and getting along with your neighbors.
...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
FYI... 1. This is just an idea we're kicking around. Someone on the Ubuntu forums asked me if we'd ever do such a thing, and I responded with my post. Don't read too much into this gang, I just wanted to honestly ask the question that posed to me. 2. Mark and I have discussed this. We'd never do this if Mark wasn't OK with it, and Mark would not be OK with it if it goes against the values and mission of Ubuntu. 3. Even if we did this (and that's a big if =), it would NOT be in the Ubuntu distribution. A user would have to download the CNR client on their own if they wanted to try or use it. 4. We'd only do this if, in addition to Mark being OK with it, lots of Ubuntu users wanted it. So, if you don't like the idea, convince Ubuntu users of that fact, not me. I believe having more choices is better, but if they feel otherwise, no worries, we'd not bother offering them something they don't want. (It looks like about half would like the option.) No one would force anyone to use this, it would just be there IF they wanted to install it. It would not be "in" Ubuntu by default. 5. I have made many posts on the Ubuntu forum, so if you actually want to know WHAT I SAID about all this, you can visit there. Sadly, my experience with Slashdot posters is they rarely actually research anything before posting. I've spotted more FUD here over the years (about a wide range of topics) than any other "news" resource on the net. Kevin Carmony CEO, Linspire, Inc.
No, I really didn't know. I just thought it sounded African. It's kind of funny then that I was pretty close to the mark, I think.
My other first post is car post.
Obviously CNR is a wonderful feature, as is clearly evidenced by all the dozen or so people still using Linspire.
I kinda get the feeling that I'm the only one who's noticed a problem with the man who stands to gain direct financial benefit from the inclusion of subscription fee-based technology in another distro being it's primary proponent. If instead, Linspire were to mount a covert campaign to infiltrate shills into the Ubuntu forums, people would onto them like white on rice.
Especially any distribution should closely read this article http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index.h tml if they want to improve.
O. Wyss
See http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
Ubuntu is FREE. It will always be free. Even if CNR was optional I don't think many people would buy it. I have used Ubuntu and I love it although I currently use SuSE 10.0 (YEAH LINUX!!!!). Even if I had the money, I would never pay for the CNR service. The software you get on it is out of date and quite honestly with a bit of time, you can much better install it by yourself (for FREE!). I am thinking this is just some plan by Linspire to try and get some money out of Ubuntu's success.
The box said: Requires Windows 98 or better. So I installed Linux!
"It also contains respect and concern for one's family, one's neighbors and is fundemantally inclusive, in strong contrast to the fundemantal exclusive of the western culture."
This characterisation of what you call "Western culture" is clearly founded on ignorance and prejudice.
Of course it's ignorance and prejudice towards "the West" (a cultural group that exists only in the minds of those who style themselves as against it - much like the laughable concept of all Black or Asian people having common negative ideologies, politics and personality traits), so it doesn't count.
You're not being right-wing if you're right-wing at the "right people", as always.
Grasping desparately for the topic, can I just say that CNR is getting a whole lot of hype when it's an almost unwanted technology in real life?
A GUI front-end to apt? Fine - but I can get that for free.
Paying companies for their software? I can do that elsewhere without all the crap.
Even if it does "land" on the linux desktop - who's going to use it?