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Comments · 12
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Re:The Majority Still Has Follow the Constitution
the founding fathers were extremely skeptical of religion
you will remember (if you are educated) that much of the 1600s in europe were spent with catholics murdering protestants and protestants murdering catholics and many perturbations in between. because "it came from god" as you say meant different things to different violent bigots, and they were therefore entitled to murder those who did not believe as they did. much like the reason daesh (ISIS) gives for murdering shias today
most of the first europeans to come to these shores were in fact fleeing such religious persecution. which is not a cute word for "tut tutting and walking by sternly" but mass murder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
this is why the very first amendment, the establishment clause states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
essentially, your thinking and your words are anathema to the foundation of this country
the historical lesson was very clear to the founding fathers of what you have when religion dictates government: mass murdering hell
btw, i mean it when i say the founding fathers were extremely skeptical of religion:
http://hwarmstrong.com/christi...
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2...
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Re:don't you know?
I It is what the US was based off of.
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Re:There's Your Problem Right ThereI can't decide if you're trolling or actually believe the nonsense you spout in about half a dozen comments in this thread. 30 seconds with google found a neat summary of the situation.
The constitution of these United States in incompatible with the US becoming a christian nation
FTFY
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Not so fast...
The KKK is largely religiously supported as well.
Somehow "equal rights" often gets corrupted to "equal rights for Christians", by the way. Not for gays. Not for Atheists. Not for Mormons. Not for Blacks (until King and others forced the issue...) You characterize MLK as a religious force, but note that much of the opposition to Black civil rights was religiously based and funded as well.
You can't have it both ways. You seem to be suggesting that in every issue where religious people were on both sides of an issue, that when the issue was finally decided, that "religion won". I don't think it has worked that way.
Also, the claim that the country was founded by Christians is highly questionable
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Re:To be fair
Not according to Israels foremost archeologists. http://freethought.mbdojo.com/archeology.html
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Re:yay!
First of all, basically nobody interprets Establishment Clause to ban expressions of faith in public, so that's a strawman argument. The Establishment Clause does, however, ban the GOVERNMENT from SUPPORTING one faith more than another (using tax dollars to fund religious institutions, etc.).
Note that "faith" does not necessarily mean Christian, and also that, per the Constitution, a diehard Atheist's faith that God does not exist is just as valid as a Diest's faith that He does, from the Government's perspective. Neither can advance proof of their beliefs (if they could, faith would not be required), and so the Government has no particular reason to believe that either of them is any better informed about the state of the universe than the other. After all, just because a lot of people believe something does not make it true.
Secondly, you might want to do a bit more research on the religious beliefs of the founding fathers before declaring that they were Christians. In fact, most of them were Deists, not Christians. Several prominent ones (Thomas Jefferson, etc.) were Atheists. In particular, I suggest doing some extra reading about what various Founding Fathers actually had to say on the subject of religion before you expound on the supposed Christianity of the Founding Fathers.
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Surely You're Joking, Mr. Moderator
Up-mod this: The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians
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Re:Fight them
History is about facts, and getting as close to the truth as possible. To pretend the Founders were not Christians is anti-truth and makes you no better than the Texan book-writers.
To deny the founder fathers were deists means you haven't done your research.
The writings of George Washington contain frequent references to "God" and "our Creator"
Referring to "God" and "our Creator" does not, by definition, mean he's talking about Christianity. In fact, since he was a Deist. Deism believes that there is a Creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans either by scripture or revelation. The "God" they speak about is more akin to a "Mother Nature" or "God Of Nature" than that of the Bible. This isn't to say that there weren't any Christian men among the founders, but the vast majority were Deists not Christian. In several documents it is specifically said that the US is not found on Christianity. "It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it." - Thomas Jefferson to Carey, 1816 I believe that is quite concrete that Jefferson was not a Christian. See the link I provided earlier for many quotes. This is obviously not the only site with these facts, google around and you'll see. There is absolutely no basis in fact for claiming the founders were Christian. They were Deists.
History is about facts, and getting as close to the truth as possible.
I agree wholeheartedly, but make sure you have the facts before criticizing others.
To pretend the Founders were not Christians is anti-truth and makes you no better than the Texan book-writers.
To pretend they were Christians just means you're falling for their message instead of thinking for yourself.
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cultural relativism isn't all good
Well different people have different ideas of what it means for the press to be free. For me...
Underlying your views on the topic is a meme known as Cultural Relativism. This notion that your own culture, in a general sense, may not be superior to all others is an interesting and useful tool in the field of anthropology. The idea that people may not be adequate instruments for knowing the truth of a given matter, and thus not always able to correctly arrive at a value judgement when comparing cultural elements is an interesting thought experiment in the field of epistemology.
However, as an organizing principle for the world, cultural relativism has become yet another excuse to believe without thinking. It's all good, so long as you are not the one being hurt by "different" meanings of the term "freedom" or "torture" or "following the law" (see: signing statements) or different ideas about the level of violence, repression, and mutilation which should be allowed to be inflicted by your "culture" on your daughters. Such cultural "traditions" are most often "practiced" ostensibly to support "religious beliefs" but isn't it interesting how they typically also serve to keep a tiny brutal minority in power and opulence while you suffer in this life, awaiting the next? Yes, that's right, I'm suggesting that the atheistic (scientific) notion of cultural relativism has escaped from the utility of thought experiment and runs rampant now as dogma and that among other things it has become tangled in the meme framework supporting theocratic oppression. Let's talk about that over a beer some time.
When they came for the knee-jerk libertarian computer geeks on Slashdot, there wasn't anybody left to defend you from the jack booted thugs. So sorry.
Stop accepting the dogma of cultural relativism blindly, and start thinking. It's definitely not all good.
Learn about the Founding Fathers. They warned us about compromising the democratic ideals given to us in The Constitution of the United States of America, a freely-licensed open source design pattern for democracy. Take a couple hours some evening to read and contemplate the document and the amendments, particularly the Bill of RIghts. You won't regret those hours. Consider them an investment in our common future. -
Re:Perspectives
In the first case, religion, at least none of the many religions I'm familiar with, really takes any position on the shape of the earth or its relationship with the sun.
They might not anymore but they did until they lost that fight a few hundred years ago.
http://evolution.mbdojo.com/conflict.html
The fight over evolution is the same irrationalism and fear all over again. The only difference is that it is happening now.
Fundamentalists regard the religious writings as gospel (pun intended) rather than a bunch of fallible people thousands of years ago writing down their interpretation of things. More moderate religious people see the writings for the historical context they were written in and wouldn't let the possibility of factual errors in them shake their own faith.
It seems a little ironic that those want to think they have the strongest faith are the least confident in the ability of their own faith to stand up to a little questioning. -
Re:they need to be stopped
Actually it's the Bible that says so - and the Bible was written by man, not by God. (admittingly, this was taken from an Islam site, but this same evidence can be found elsewhere.) The old testament was passed via oral tradition many many times before being recorded. Most of the new testament (with the exception of Matthew, Mark, Luke, etc) was recorded in the same manner.
Let's see about homosexuality... Hmmm, nothing in the bible says it's wrong. In fact here is a site that addresses it:
McChurch.org
And another:
In-my-opinion.org
Then let's take a look at what else the Bible tells us:
Numbers 31:17 "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Revelation 2:22-23 "So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Psalm 137:8-9 "O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
Isaiah 13:16 "Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished."
Please open your bible to 2 Kings, 2:23-24
23: And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24: And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." Damn children, making fun of a bald guy!
Now turn your books to Exodus:
12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
It sounds to me like God really hated kids!
See http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.htm l for more light reading! -
Christianity et al
are cults.