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Kentucky Announces Creationism Theme Park
riverat1 writes "On December first, Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear announced that a creationism theme park is expected to open in 2014. Park developers are seeking state tourism development incentives and could receive up to $37.5 million over a 10-year period. Gov. Steve Beshear said he does not believe the incentives would violate the principle of church-state separation because the 14-year-old tax incentives law wasn’t approved for the purpose of benefiting the Ark Encounter. The park will have a 500 foot replica of the Ark with live animals on it and a Tower of Babel explaining how races and languages developed. The park will be turned over to Answers in Genesis after it is built. They are a non-profit organization which may allow them to discriminate in hiring on the basis of religion."
and i'm fucking going.
she would be proud
in 6 days?
As long as it doesn't end up like Flander's Bible land and is more like Universal Studios Islands of Adventure, then I'm for it!
first time a post made me knee-jerk donate to a lobby
Now I can finally get the state to approve my Pastafarian noodle coaster with Scientology bumper cars
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
There are other fantasy theme parks, so why not this?
ALL of the handouts by government are just Corporate Welfare. Whether it's for a park or football stadium or whatever new idea the corporations hatch. The working class is being forced to help the rich.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Have one guy (and a few relatives) build it himself using 2000 BC technology, pack it with animals, and then see if it floats.
will the religious nuts not stoop to in order to convince us heathens of their world views? Maybe we need to start a Science Theme Park...
On est ce qu'on veut (A man is what he wills himself to be). -- Sartre
...that the park actually evolved from lower forms of parks, each being incrementally better than the previous park.
It is just a rumor.
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
Why can't God just create the park? I mean a theme park is a lot simpler than a whole race of people.
Maybe if God wanted a creationist theme park he would have created it himself?
What is more reasonable: that we organically evolved or something magical and mystical happened. Just sayin.
As a citizen of Kentucky, if this project gets even a dollar in tax cuts... I reserve my right to post signs on anything that reads:
"Creationism isn't science. It isn't even a theory. There is no scientific method involved. There is no empirical evidence. There is no verifiability. Proceed with caution".
Hey, it's an underserved demographic. People who completely ignore science, hard evidence, and rational thought need entertainment too, and what the heck! They have money (somehow).
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Not only had this better not see one red penny of taxpayer money, but any public official who says it doesn't violate separation of Church and State should be immediately impeached for not upholding protecting the Constitution.
If people want to build these things and run them with private money, even for a profit, I don't care. But the second you start taking my money to proselytize your religion, I get VERY agitated.
I would love to go see this. I want to see how distant their representation is from the Bible and see if I can walk around without laughing/getting thrown out.
Our governor is a fucking moron.
We have some of the lowest unemployment rates, we certainly have the worst education (OBVIOUSLY), and our health is poor to say the least.
But instead of taking care of, you know, problems....
**sigh**
I'm moving to Canada. At least up there I can smoke my worries away.
Join FFRF.
Kentucky: Home of Bourbon, Fried Chicken and Idiots
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Sadly... this isn't the first. These sorts of parks have even been lampooned in Bill Maher's Religulous.
The guy there didn't want to pay his taxes either.
Apparently God declined to show up at his hearing.
Hell yeah I would. Are they offering any stock?
PT Barnum says this park will be a hit.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
The lottery and slot machines are even more clearly taxes on stupidity. If transferring money from the dim-witted to the state helps close budget gaps, I guess I'm reluctantly for it. You can't ban the stupidity itself, so maybe you can tax it into nonexistence. Or at least bankruptcy.
Bankruptcy for the individually stupid, unfortunately. For the parks, I'm sure it's immensely profitable, which profits they then turn into creating more stupidity ex nihilo. The perpetuum mobile of stupidity. A Von Neumann machine that passes the Anti-Turing Test of Artificial Idiocy.
Look at me... I'm reduced to just calling it names. It's such an obvious fallacy on the face of it that there's simply no way to reason with it; reason itself has been chucked as premise #1 of the argument. All I can do is fiddle while Rome burns, trying to keep myself amused while the barbarians build themselves amusement parks, reducing me to mixing my metaphors.
I think this is fair... as long as we can build a dinosaur park next door, including skeletons, full sized animated replicas, and a museum that explaines, at length, the evolutionary timeline from Triassic to the modern chicken.
How is that /not/ a violation of the separation of church and state?
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
let it be built in a flood zone.
It is now the official 'Most Ignorant State In the Union'. Next year they're going for 'Most Bigoted State'.
I wonder if they are going to explain races using the "Curse of Canaan"? Chances are they will just gloss over that ugly story.
I wonder if someone came up with the same thing but instead a muslim theme park, would they get the same government support? mmm.
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
The first amendment prevents "respecting an establishment of religion" which has been widely interpreted as meaning that they can't spend taxpayer money on evangelism on some particular religion, which is exactly what this park is.
What is going on here is the separation of brain and common sense.
Come the revolution, the Bourgeois, Capitalistic, "A PARKING STICKER HOLDERS", will be first against the wall!
So when a majority of people believe its okay to segregate schools - you're okay with that? I had hoped we had evolved enough to recognize that we need laws to protect minorities. Non-christians are a minority in this land - and we don't appreciate the use of tax dollars to fund christian mythology.
So people are fine with the propagation of ridiculous lies to the degree of building a shrine to it? Really? Why is it that people with imaginary friends are treated like they are...I mean I know it's not nice to pick on people with mental difficulties but there has to be a limit to what they are allowed to do. It's not in progressions best interest to keep putting money and time into a fantasy, the concept of faith is buried deeply in the stigma of human ignorance. Having a tough life? Well, believe in a lie and make it all better. Don't worry if you are called on the lie, you can just say they will burn in hell for suggesting you are simple minded. And now on top of the thousands of tax free churches that occupy every street corner you can have a family day out with other delusional people making it that much easier to get your children into the cult. And yes, all faith is defined as cult behavior.....look it up...and not on wikipedia, out of an actual dictionary.
They are a non-profit organization which may allow them to discriminate in hiring on the basis of religion.
Citation please? I may be a crazy liberal Canadian living in the US but I gotta think that even in Kentucky, discrimination based on religion must be illegal. Right?
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
"All it does is prevent the state from establishing a state church"
Except that to favor a particular religious group over others is a de facto establishment. The majority of taxpayers cannot elect to have the state treasury tithe to a specific church; this is a recognized violation of separation.
A *replica* of the Ark?
Will they be showing Carl Sagan's Cosmos for Rednecks edition on large screens?
RGdot.com
The first amendment says CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion.
So if this violates the constitution, what’s its house or senate bill number?
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
Hilarious editorial blasting this idiocy here: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101202/OPINION01/312020019/1055/OPINION/Editorial+ (h/t PZ Myers)
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
So it says, "Congress shall make no law". How does that apply to states using state tax money (not federal tax money). I hope it applies somehow because I would hate to see more people's money wasted on this type of fantasy - but I personally don't see how it applies if the actual amendment is about Congress and not about states.
Kentucky had tourism. :-)
I do however like their scenery as I have driven from Ohio to Florida or Atlanta.
Are they going to be performing live shows recreating events like when Lot's daughters got him shit-faced so they could have sex with him to impregnate themselves since they had to leave behind their boyfriends in Sodom? If so, COUNT ME IN, FELLOW CHRISTIANS!
"Gov. Steve Beshear said he does not believe the incentives would violate the principle of church-state separation ... which may allow them to discriminate in hiring on the basis of religion."
You are speculating on a couple of the most important pieces of the article. Perhaps this story conflicts with your beliefs and is clouding the objectivity of your post.
This is what I posted as a comment on that ark site's blog. It seems that they want to select what comments are posted, and I doubt my comment will be. Odd that they don't trust god to stop the "bad" messages...
Can't you see that religion is a tool used to control others? And with that control comes money, power, and access to members of the opposite sex. Yes, it's all about biology. Unless you are a catholic priest[1].
The details of silly little stories, like the ark, are there to detract from the realities of the world. Whilst people are bickering over details and meanings of bible stories they are not paying attention to what those at the top of society are doing.
So give up on religion, it is all based on dodgy logic anyway - we can't prove there isn't a god, so there must be one. Yeah, and because you can't see where I parked my car, it must be on the far side of the moon. Give up on just staring at the TV for hours everyday, get out there are speak to people. Use your brains, and always question everything. Why do people do things? Always ask, never take anything as true just because an authority figure says so.
The most dangerous elements in society will always be drawn to positions of authority, and they will be prepared to cheat and back-stab to get to the top. So ultimately, most people in positions of authority are corrupt to some degree.
[1] I don't want to discriminate. Other churches are full of child abusers too!
Idiocracy?
Interestingly enough I have no issue with this happening. They have the right to attempt to create this theme park. Why would the fact it is based on the creation myth of the Judo-christian religion be of any significance? Last I read the Constitution of the United States, the 1st amendment states "Freedom of Religion" not "Freedom FROM Religion". There is a modern Myth that there is a separation of church and state in the constitution. It does not exist, If you think it does, please show me the word "separate" in the first amendment. Read the constitution from the point of view of how the people that wrote it used the language, not how you interpret it. Languages change, work meanings change, the intent of the founders and writers does not. That being said I want you to understand that I am not a religious person, i do not subscribe to any form of religion. All religion is a man made creation to explain where the world comes from and how it works. I like to call myself a Duncar. That is a really short for I Don't care. I don't think the government should care one way or the other. If they want to create a theme park based on Judo-Christian myth, go ahead. If they want to apply for money from development funds, please go right ahead. why should anyone care. It does not matter to me at all. It does not matter to them that i will not be visiting it, or that you who so easily scoff at religion will not be visiting it. They are making it for people that will go there. I have never visited any Disney theme park, I just do not care to. So should Disney not be allowed to build or apply for funds? No. my beliefs or lack there of is not reliant, neither is yours. Are they proposing violence? how about anarchy? overthrow of the Government? Last I looked it was OK to believe in anything you wanted to as long as it was not detrimental to others or a violation of the law.
...he does not believe the incentives would violate the principle of church-state separation because the 14-year-old tax incentives law wasn’t approved for the purpose of benefiting the Ark Encounter
Huh? Does that mean we can violate laws if they weren't specifically meant for benefit of what we're doing?
Northern kentucky will now have two myth based museums and ZERO science museums. Pretty much what I expect from people that voted Rand Paul into office.
I'd like to see them receive tax money, not because I think they deserve it, but because I think you (the self-righteous voter) deserve it. You certainly approve of government taking money from other people to fund your interests, right? Even for things those people may be dead against and wouldn't ever choose to fund voluntarily, right?
Well, the road goes both ways. I'd absolutely love to see your money taken from you, by force, and distributed to other people for the purpose of serving their interests. Hopefully I'll get to watch you throw the hissy-fit as well.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. As for those of us who believe in strict limits on government power and revenue, we already know exactly how you feel.
Don't you have to know what the original of something looks like to even make a replica?
The creation museum is not far from Cincinnati, in Northern Kentucky. The seriously messed up thing is that they use DINOSAURS to promote the creation Museum. I am guessing they will use scientists to promote the theme park.
"Ones and zeros were everywhere. I even think I saw a two!" - Bender
Awesome, another theme park filled with imaginary characters.
Maybe it's finally time to Divide that House...
Don't they only build theme parks for things that are fantas - Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.
Sigs are for Terrorists.
Does not mean what some of you think it means. All it does is prevent the state from establishing a state church like the Church of England and interfering with (disrupting) church activities and the free exercise of your freedom "of religion". There is no freedom from religion. Your rights do not extend into the lives of others. If you choose to be an atheist, that is you personal choice but you cannot impose that choice upon the rest of society, other individuals or restrict the free exercise of religion by anyone even if they are public officials. They still retain all of their personal rights and freedoms.
I'm not sure how I feel about this park and the use of tax payers funds but then again, I'm not sure if it is fair for the tyranny of the minority to always win over the majority. If the majority of tax payers are in favor of this, I don't see the problem. There is plenty of tax money spent on other things that are not necessarily for the benefit of all tax payers.
You're an idiot. Freedom *of* religion necessarily means freedom *from* religion. You are free to practice your religion because you are free *from* being coerced by other religions. Otherwise, you are forcing a religion onto people who don't believe. And no, it is not okay to fund this with tax-payer money even if the majority agree, just as it would not be okay to bring back slavery if the majority agreed. Minority rights must be protected in a civilized society. But, when overbearing tyrants like you want to force your religion/ideology/whatever on everyone else, you always whine about the "tyranny of the minority".
In any event, your Pat Robertson inspired interpretation of the first amendment is not what is understood by the Supreme Court, even on the conservative side.
Besides, take a step back and look at what you are suggesting. You are arguing that, so long as 50%+1 of the people of a state vote to pay to support a particular religion, they should be able to force their religion upon everyone else in the state.
Similar to the upcoming US election results
As both the Young Earth Creationists and the Raw Vegan groups seem to completely and willfully ignore human evolution and it's implications.
The Raw Vegans think humans should eat nothing but raw veggies, but they foprget that the primary reasons we evolved were because we evolved cooking (which allows higher nutrient conversion) and eating meat (which allows higher protein diets). Both were instrumental in increasing our brain size and our intellegence. Group Hunting for tasty animals also helped develop our social skills which later helped in forming farming communities later on.
Since both groups ignore the last 6 million years of human evolution they deserve each other.
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
The 14th Amendment has been widely interpreted by the courts to mean that the Bill of Rights is applicable to the states, so the prohibitions in the first amendment apply to state legislatures as well.
If that's not enough for you, the Kentucky Supreme Court ruled earlier this year that a religious college couldn't keep money given to it by the General Assembly because it was supported by a religious institution, even though the money was not going to be used for anything specifically religious.
If that's still not enough for you, Section 5 of the Kentucky Constitution states (in part) "nor shall any person be compelled to attend any place of worship, to contribute to the erection or maintenance of any such place, or to the salary or support of any minister of religion". Using taxpayer money to erect a religious theme park seems pretty squarely at odds with this provision.
The fact that the place exists doesn’t force any religion on anyone. Nobody is going to force anyone to go to it, so your argument is invalid.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
Bravo to Gov. Beshear for bringing jobs to Kentucky. These are the type of low paying, lack-of-knowledge based jobs that will lead Kentucky into the 12th century and make it a world leader in the promotion of pseudoscience and 'alternative ways of knowing'.
Amendment XIV "federalized" the bill of rights, i.e. made them apply also to state and local governments.
Why does it take $24.5 million to build the ark, and has an image of dozens of people working on it?
Didn't Noah manage to do it all by himself?
The 14th Amendment has been widely interpreted by the courts to mean that the Bill of Rights is applicable to the states, so the prohibitions in the first amendment apply to state legislatures as well.
So where’s the KY law that violates it? There isn’t one, just a 14-year-old budget that allows them to fund non-profits in some circumstances, which this meets.
nor shall any person be compelled to attend any place of worship, to contribute to the erection or maintenance of any such place, or to the salary or support of any minister of religion
It isn’t a place of worship, and the workers aren’t ministers.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
I'm sorry, did you miss the 14th amendment? Kind of a BFD.
I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
*starts a slow clap*
The first amendment says CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion.
Article I - The Legislative Branch
Section 1 - The Legislature
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Where does the Constitution grant power to the states to establish a religion?
We need a list of people who visit these theme parks. They are religious fanatics, right? Not listening to reason at all? It'd be just like a terrorist watch list! Also, I would go there every day and wear a burka. A state funded park can't exclude visitors based on religion right?
Then again Kentucky, a creationist theme park probably isn't for you.
It's more of a Shelbyville idea:
Mike Zovath, senior vice president of the non-profit group Answers in Genesis, one of the partners in developing the park, says Kentucky officials have told him the proposal for state tourism-development incentives "looks good," the newspaper says.
The group cautions, however, that they could still move the project to Indiana, depending on available incentives.
It is totally appropriate that creationism be reduced to status of fantasy theme park -- I could not think of anything more apropos. Once people get a gander at a real Ark replica they will see how ridiculous the entire myth is.
Kentucky hasn't make a law establishing a religion either.
it amazes me how lacking of any sort of tolerance you have. You are basically showing that you are bigots, If you replaced the word creationist with black, Indian, women, gays, or any other of the in favor "victim" groups, you would be hounded out of here and probably banned. But for some reason you seem to think it is perfectly OK to scoff at, ridicule, verbally abuse, cast innuendo, and slander and entire group of people just because you do not believe as they do. I do not believe in any religion, but I do not behave as you do toward. They have the right to carry on with their lives and you do with yours. You do not like them, fine, but being an obnoxious bigot is only showing your lack of tolerance. Something I think you are trying to say they are. For technology savvy people, you are not any better or worse in your beliefs than they are. As a point, the so called Science, hard evidence, and rational thought we are so proud of has brought us 2 decades of the myth of human caused global climate change. This myth is just as much a myth as the Creation myth. Remember at one time Creation was backed by science, hard evidence and rational thought as well. Much of the early scientific discoveries of the Renaissance were made by clergy to show the perfection of the creation version of the universe. Our Science, hard evidence, and rational thought may be considered "belief in barbaric myths" in 400 years. Think about it the next time you want be condescending toward people that believe different from us.
They can build what ever they want. They just shouldn't get any taxpayer money. As a matter of fact the tax exemption for all churches should be abolished.
Actually, the Constitution explicitly reserves to the states or the people any and all powers not explicitly given to the Federal government. Your logic is exactly backward.
The equal protection clause in the 14th Amendment does mandate that states have to give groups equal protection without discrimination, and establishing a religion would violate that, so states actually can’t establish religions. But Kentucky didn’t pass any law establishing a religion, either.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
This is Kentucky we're talkin' 'bout here, where the family trees don't branch, and a "virgin" is defined as a girl that can run faster than any of her brothers. I'm absolutely SURE they gonna impeach somebody for tryin' to promote the teachin's of the Good Book!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Time for religulous 2!
They probably don't even expect probable converts to go there, they expect True Believers(TM) to go there to reinforce their beliefs.
Disregarding the whole church/state separation lawsuit that you know will dog this through a decade of appeals, who in their right mind would want to fund this? I mean, you really think that this is going to make a lot of money? It sounds like a second rate zoo and fun park. If I were an investor, I would invest in something that sounds more likely to make money, you know, like perpetual motion machines and cold fusion...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
We don't need a science theme park, we need the Smithsonian Museum of Dad-Trolling
...play God?
"Windows are for cheaters" - Bruce Springsteen
I can't believe I'm defending these cretins, but I don't think they are getting government money. I believe they are getting tax breaks under a tourism promotion program. I hate to say it, but I think this is legal.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
But it all depends on who plays Eve.
And don't forget about the Sodom & Gomorrah section!
Every time I see one of these 'theme park' things, I think of Terry Talbot's hilarious song "Bible Land", which lampoons the whole concept. (I couldn't find the lyrics online, but it seems like there are MP3s available; it was on his album "A Time to Laugh, A Time to Sing".)
Funny thing is, these creationism attractions always die. Sure it "could" take in N million dollars... but I "could" actually be a freak mutation with an immortality gene.
In both cases the smart bet is "against".
They keep trying to "evolve creationism" into something sale-able and sure, a wicked roller coaster with cars shaped like velociraptors, which I can ride while wearing Jesus Robes (to prove that dinosaurs were contemporary with early man) might be a hoot.
But aside from that one possible example, what is so amusing about creationism, or for that matter evolution, that it could inspire "amusement"?
At least with an "evolution" theme park we could have things like "the haunted Level 3 Containment Lab" and "the Survival of the Fittest" king of the mountain "kiddy play pit".
The "God Did It Accusitorium" is only good for like one walk-through at god-did-it-land...
The "tar-pit fossil search" on the game midway would be pretty fun.
On the whole evolution makes for better rides...
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
Since they are going to accuracy, you know, languages came about as a result of the Tower of Babel, etc, I would expect no less than:
* A before-shamed very naked Eve in the park
* She had better be smoking hot as God's number one design
* A park expansion should have Sodam and Gomorrah, complete with live shows of the activities that caused the city to be razed by God
* WWE Smackdown #1, Cain vs. Able
Just a few of the ideas that could make this theme park a winner.
Well there's the 14th amendment which through it's due process clause has been used to extend the Bill of Rights to the state level. There's also the landmark Everson v. Board of Education case which applied religion clauses to the state level explicitly. I'm certainly no legal scholar, but it would seem that Kentucky's use of tax dollars for a sectarian purpose would also run afoul of Article 6 of the US Constitution, the "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States" bit seeing as how $37,000,000 of public trust is used.
Hey if Disney can create a park about a fictional world so can Christians I guess.
The state takes money, under threat of fines, fees and, in some places, even imprisonment, from all citizens regardless of their beliefs, and hands it to a specific Church. You don't see a problem with that? You are forcing people to financially support a religion they don't believe in.
It all contributes to expanding the business of government for the benefit of the elite at the top of the pyramid. From my perspective, spending money on religion is no better or worse than spending money on bailouts or security theater. It's all a loss for me, and a win for the elite who control the business of government (and a false win for the direct recipients of the money).
Like I said, for those of us who believe in strictly limiting the scope of government both in power and revenue, it's pointless to nitpick after a certain point. A merger of church and state doesn't automatically result in tyranny; it merely brings it one step closer, same as anything else government does. It's merely a tool for a job: the job of expanding the business of government. As history shows, that goal will certainly be achieved with or without a merger of church and state.
I don't understand why it will take so much time and money. I would expect the on-profit to just have to secure purchase of the land. Once they have the land God can just create the park. Right?
The Governor (and legislators) know that the funds will never be approved. They're just building support with their constituents while waiting for a judge to shoot it down just so they run around blaming 'activist judges' and the ACLU for being un-American and anti-Christian and generally distract everyone from the real problems and issues.
The anti-public-money-for-the-ark people will claim a "win" when in reality they've just become the a political target that the Governor (and legislature) can point to and yell "Look! Liberal boogie men trying to abolish American Christianity! Vote for me and I'll save you!".
Meanwhile, the smart people, the entrepreneurs, will be busy printing t-shirts and buttons with the slogans 'Save our Ark!' and 'Keep America Free' and make a small fortune off of everyone else.
Found on a Kentucky forum, about the already-existing creation museum.
Poster One: There's a caveman riding a dinosaur. I went as a joke. I recommend it to others if they're in for a good laugh.
Poster Two: You recommend it to others if they're in for a good laugh? Why?
Poster One: There's a caveman riding a dinosaur.
More reasons (as if I didn't have enough already) to point at Kentucky and laugh hysterically.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
On display at the Creationism Theme Park: people who believe in Creationism! A variation of this would be to have the Park visitors being the actual display (a sort of moving exhibit, if you will). Ever seen the beginning of Idiocracy? Like that.
How is it not a place of worship?
How are workers who must sign a religious pledge not lay-ministers.
The fact that tax dollars go to it means religion is being forced on them.
It makes us in Cincinnati appreciate how lucky we are to be on the north side of the river.
Kentucky, making Ohio look better for over 200 years! Thanks Kentucky!
Heck!
Ar'm gowna get mahself a job as a bible-carine there. But I wouldn't know how to drive one'a'them arks.
The fact that tax dollars go to it means religion is being forced on them.
I take it you hold the same view for the endowment for the arts, abortion, etc.? The fact that tax dollars go to anything means it is being forced on everyone.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
....riiiight!
Because they are not legally defined as such.
Will it have a tithing pond?
How can you create a replica of something that never existed? That'd be a true miracle!
Perhaps I'm trolling, perhaps I'm not.
Construction has not yet begun making it an atheist theme park for now
In other news, Utah surprised by Darwinism theme park that spontaneously appeared.
how many creationists know that the book of genesis starts with the words "In the beginning when the gods created the earth,"?
As long as the theme park is intelligently designed I don't have a problem with it, but its creators need to be careful that it does not evolve into something they did not intend.
Anybody want to start a Flying Spaghetti Monsterism theme park? It would be a lot of fun, and the government should be willing to fork over an equivalent amount of funds. Kidding aside, this is how the fight against creationism being taught along side evolution was won, and that was just a "paper" effort. Here, we can actually get government funding, and build something that would attract tourism dollars, educate people, and maybe turn a profit.
The thing that I don't understand about this is why do conservative Christian groups insist upon getting government subsidies for things that are clearly religious endeavours. Jesus said to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's. This is commonly believed to call upon Christians to obey the government in civil matters. So why take money from the government and thus become subject to government authority and entanglements? It just makes no sense. If making this park is so important, then build it with the support of the faithful. Leave Caesar out of it please.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
.. vino or at least some gasoline...do they have tech..ehh.. teology...to do this?
Or at least please make the fries fall from the ceiling in the cafeteria?
Too high expectations?
I would just like to say that I am from Kentucky and not all of us are bat shit crazy....
That they service the animals as if it were the actual ark. This means, all provisions must be brought "on board" every 40 days, stored in the ship and all animals must survive.
Let them eat their cake. When they can't do it by way of the biblical account (which is the infallible word of god), let them admit defeat.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
You've got a *great* idea there! Reminds me of a display in the Florida Believe it or Not. It is a mirror with a caption over it saying how most people cannot fold their tongue over. You continue walking through the museum and you wind your way back around and you come to find out it is a one way mirror, and people on the other side are watching you.
We do something similar with this park.
On one side, a place where the devout can have pictures of Jesus riding raptors and 6000 year timelines of the planet. On the other side, people can watch them.
I have no idea which side would make the most money. =)
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I suppose you don't have a problem with the Christian's tax money paying for public education teaching evolution, so why have a problem with evolutionists' tax money paying for creationist teaching?
Ironically, God knows you're lying.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Its sad that things like this are being made in the place I am currently living in. Not all of us are bible-thumping-sister-screwing-moonshine-drinking idiots. There are a lot here who are actually intelligent and know what they are talking about when it comes to many things, religion included. I am Atheist, and so are many other people here in the city of Lexington, Kentucky.
The governor says this will make money for the state. He's wrong.
It will take in some revenue, if it gets built, but all that revenue will be spent on legal fights.
The state might win, or they might lose. Either way, this will cost them more than they will make.
You are arguing that, so long as 50%+1 of the people of a state vote to pay to support a particular religion, they should be able to force their religion upon everyone else in the state.
that's a non-sequitor; if the state were to support a particular religion, that does not imply that it is forced upon anyone. for example if they state built a big church that itself doesn't force anyone to attend.
I am a follower of Christ, but I'm also politically a libertarian. Should money or even tax breaks go to this; umm definitely no in my opinion. The idea of the park is just strange to begin with, obviously, but then again I do believe some form of evolution was used by God as His process for creation. And yes I also believe the universe is more than seven or ten thousand years old based upon continually mounting and substantial scientific evidence.
The Bible does say God made us from dirt; Gen 2:7. Looks like the Bible may very well support the evolutionary creationist's view. This game with the Bible's support or lack of for scientific theories can be played all day by both sides and for the most point is pointless.
I'm still confused as to why so many Christians think the Bible is a scientific treatise on how exactly God brought about everything physical. Science is not the Bible's theme. People use the Bible like it contains the answers for anything on any subject (i.e. the silly Bible codes); it doesn't nor is it meant to. Its theme is morality and sin and what God did to throw us a life line and enable our moral "evolution". I can very much sympathize with the frustrations non-christians have with christians in this area.
I'd like to see them build the ark to scale and try and fit two of every animal on earth in it. ;)
So, how does one build a replica of something that never existed?
"Grant County Judge-Executive Darrell Link told reporters that residents of his county are proud to have the park locate there."
When it comes to building a Mosque:
"The announcement that a mosque is being planned near Mall Road in Florence has drawn a strong reaction from some in the community."
http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20100816/NEWS0103/8150392/Mosque-proposal-criticized
There is a big difference here, guys. Not all Christians are creationists.
And before you flame/mod me into oblivion, I am an atheist.
They’re not funding a church, they’re funding a construction project that will generate tourism which happens to be owned and operated by a church.
Simple question. If a Muslim or Buddhist group were making a religious theme park and received government money to construct it, would you be okay with that? How about Scientology or Rastafarianism? Or, the Temple of Set? If you answer no to any of these, you should be able to see why this construction project should receive no government money or special tax breaks.
Oh, and it doesn't just "happens to be owned and operated by a church" as you say. It is a religiously-themed park. If it were a simple nature park that just happened to be owned by a church, I would have no problem with this. But, they are making a park specifically to push their own religious ideas.
Similar to the upcoming US election results
A lot of people seem to think that this project violates church and state. It has nothing to do with church and state. The project is being financed via tax breaks. That means the entity building it is a tax-paying entity (or will be once the tax breaks run out). As such, they are a business like any other business. If they want to build a theme park with a big mouse in a costume or with a big boat as it's main attraction, it's not a religion. The fact that a religious group, non-profit even, is going to run it doesn't make it a religion either. They will be paying their property taxes, income taxes and whatever other taxes Kentucky has like any other entertainment business in the state.
And if the very first few words of the Constitution explicitly prohibited the government from supporting the arts, abortion, etc., you might have a point.
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
Fourteenth Amendment. It works, bitches.
simpsons did it!
And people there just got high on a gas leak.
This is just a part of the evangelical fundamentalist echo chamber.
This is just a part of the evangelical fundamentalist echo chamber.
I doubt this is unique to Kentucky, but Muslims there can't even get government approval for a self-funded Islamic building, let alone a tax incentive. This country's Christian-bias kills me.
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
It's all make believe....
Anybody find the image confusing-- modern building tools / structures with primitives in the foreground?
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Where does it prevent them?
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Perhaps President Palin will cut the ribbon on this monument to human ignorance.
i mean, this park will completely and utterly disregard how things work in the real world, but it worked for the Flintstones...
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
Even if it isn't a "place of worship" per se, I don't see how you could possibly argue that it isn't a place of religious indoctrination. For religiously indoctrinating children no less. Not that I'm saying that indoctrinating children with religion is evil (on the other hand, I wonder where, for example, Christians would stand on children being indoctrinated with religions that said Christians believe will result in their souls being cast into hell for all eternity?), necessarily. Just that it's pretty clearly at odds with the constitution to provide government money for such indoctrination.
Awesome! I can't wait to ride a ride or get in a building designed by someone who doesn't believe in science.
The state that once had "Golgotha Fun Park", a mini-golf course themed around the life of Christ. It's just down the road from the "Hillbilly Hound Fun Park", "T.W.'s Redneck Golf" and "Dinosaur World". No, really.
We already have them. We call them museum, planetariums, or colleges.
Besides, too high a price is asked for harmony; it's beyond our means to pay so much to enter on it. And so I hasten to give back my entrance ticket, and if I am an honest man I am bound to give it back as soon as possible. And that I am doing. It's not God that I don't accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return him the ticket.
Ivan to Alyosha, in Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky. (Or, if that's too long, The Grand Inquisitor stands on its own as a masterpiece!)
And, just as a bonus parting thought because it's one of my favorite quotes and tenuously related, maybe we'd all be better off if we shared some of the 'coexistence of faith and unbelief' of Dostoevsky. It doesn't bother me if people turn to a God in search of answers, but when they're confident enough to build a theme park out of it, it makes me nauseous. To quote Dostoevsky once more in Notes from the Dead House,
Not because you are religious, but because I myself have experienced and felt it keenly, I will tell you that in such moments one thirsts like “parched grass” for faith and finds it precisely because truth shines in misfortune. I will tell you regarding myself that I am a child of the age, a child of nonbelief and doubt up till now and even (I know it) until my coffin closes. What terrible torments this thirst to believe has cost me and still costs me, becoming stronger in my soul, the more there is in me of contrary reasonings. And yet sometimes God sends me moments in which I am utterly at peace.
Fuck that, I'd much rather go to New Jersey and force the people to re-build Action Park.
Because otherwise Texas' education board would make us look like the most whacked out state in the union.
Thinkingman.com New Media
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
AiG already discriminates in hiring like The Salvation Army does. AiG will not allow anyone to become an employee unless the person signs a statement that attend a church AiG approves of that must also be signed by their minister/preacher/pastor and other witnesses, they cannot teach science or hold degrees in certain sciences that contradict biblical teachings, they must have a neo-conservative christian worldview politically and AiG does not permit members they allow to have science degrees submit articles to peer review. Any article attempting evidence at proving creationism must be submitted to their leader Ken Ham who must approve it although he does not hold a scientific degree just an engineering degree. AiG is the Disney version of The Discovery Institute. Just as wrong but possibly more dangerous. I was banned from their facebook page for pointing out errors in their statements on evolution and for pointing out inaccuracies in their depiction of dinosaurs.
Regardless of how I feel about creationism, I gotta say this sounds like a fun park. I have always wondered what Noah's Ark would actually look like. I wonder how close it is to full size?
Who's with me?
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
...what this will evolve in to.
If only I hadn't engaged in useful discussion; I'd love to mod you Funny, instead.
> Everything we currently know about genetics, biology, anatomy, geology, ...... coincides with the theory of evolution. It is fact
It is the best explanation we could come up with, yet. I don't expect anything to change, but hey.
> Denying evolution at this stage simply shows that one is not educated in any of the sciences.
Again, wrong. It's fine to deny, or at the very least challenge, evolution based on some other theory. The unscientific thing is to still clutch to your new theory after it has been shown to have logical fallacies.
tl;dr: We agree, but it's simply not scientific to claim evolution has been proven beyond any doubt. It has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt of today, though.
Will they fund Islam-a-world too?
What about KKK Land?
Darwin the Musical?
Hospital Land where healthcare is free?
I was going to suggest Jew Land but Israel already gets $2,000,000,000 + a year.
awesome.
We've got one in Buenos Aires since a long time ago:
http://www.tierrasanta-bsas.com.ar/
But the 14th amendment wasn’t violated. Too bad, so sad.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
Just that it's pretty clearly at odds with the constitution to provide government money for such indoctrination.
Then you misunderstand the constitution. In fact, not giving them money would violate the constitution.
If you say “projects meeting the criteria a, b, and c get tax breaks to encourage tourism” and then someone who meets a, b, and c gets disqualified simply because they’re a church, that’s discrimination on the basis of religion and it’s completely unconstitutional.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
We'll see what the courts think.
No need. We already have.
Government-provided resources available to non-profit groups cannot be withheld from religious groups solely on the basis of the fact that they’re religious.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
The law is quite a bit more subtle than your perception of it. For one thing, organizations that proselytize their guests or customers are not eligible for government support, and I suspect these morons will be doing that early and often.
The government has no business coming up with funding or promoting this theme park. There exists a clause in the constitution separating church and state. It is a shame the governor wants to reduce learning to going to a theme park about creationism. This sounds tragically like the time machine in the movie Idiocracy.
organizations that proselytize their guests or customers are not eligible for government support
Citation needed. Preferably a supreme court decision.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
I'm not advocating terrorism or such but if any body wants to fly a plane into that theme park, I would not get in your way is all I'm saying
It'll be interesting to see if your position as an atheist shields you from negative mods, content of your comment regardless.
Humans are terrible replicators of Godly things.
Anybody find the image confusing-- modern building tools / structures with primitives in the foreground?
Well, that's in keeping with the anachronism-style of story telling present in the Bible. Y'know, like camel trains (Gen. 37:25) earlier than the domestication of camels, and walled cities (Jos. 6:20) in a period when communities lived in simple pastoral enclaves.
If they want to depict the ocean transport of a multitude of livestock without depicting the animals as dead, rotting, carcasses -- they really should equip their 'Ark' to the standard of livestock-carrier MV Becrux:
http://wn.com/Livestock_Transport_Take_a_ship_tour_onboard_MV_Becrux
. . with its automatic feeding system, 84 turbo-ventilators, and desalination plant capable of producing 600,00 litres of drinking water-per-day.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
By rights if God wanted a theme park it would have been created by now.
Too lazy to go looking for SCOTUS decisions, but: http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/Obama_Halts_Sermons_during_Soup_Kitchen_Meals_101126
Same idea.
Did you even read that?
the program will still allow churches to accept federal dollars and allow religious organizations to display religious art, icons, scriptures and other symbols while taking in government support.
The order also did not address the issue of faith-based hiring at religious institutions that accept federal funds.
They can’t actively proselytize. Which I agree with. And which is totally beside the point. They still get federal funds on the same basis as anyone else. You can’t discriminate against an organization because it’s religious.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
You are free to practice your religion because you are free *from* being coerced by other religions. Otherwise, you are forcing a religion onto people who don't believe.
Just out of curiosity, but isn't that what parents do, all the time?