Slashdot Mirror

It has been changed, no company can require that you give them your social security number since about 1999, I don't remember the exact year but I remember when they enacted it. It is for security purposes and also because the number belongs to the government (just as a tax ID) and not the individual. SSN FAQ

I read the FAQ that you pointed to, but it said that while no company can REQUIRE that you give them your SSN, they don't have to provide you with goods and services if you don't give it to them. As purchases are contractual agreements, the parties involved get to set the terms. If one party's terms state that they want an SSN then its up to them whether they deal with you or not if you don't provide it.

The FAQ also had infomation about an employment case where a man refused to use or give an SSN to his employer for religious reasons. The court found for him, but because of the religious descrimination part rather than the "requiring an SSN" part.

It has been changed, no company can require that you give them your social security number since about 1999, I don't remember the exact year but I remember when they enacted it. It is for security purposes and also because the number belongs to the government (just as a tax ID) and not the individual. SSN FAQ

I read the FAQ that you pointed to, but it said that while no company can REQUIRE that you give them your SSN, they don't have to provide you with goods and services if you don't give it to them. As purchases are contractual agreements, the parties involved get to set the terms. If one party's terms state that they want an SSN then its up to them whether they deal with you or not if you don't provide it.

The FAQ also had infomation about an employment case where a man refused to use or give an SSN to his employer for religious reasons. The court found for him, but because of the religious descrimination part rather than the "requiring an SSN" part.

Fraud is much easier this way for sure and the system of using it like an ID should be changed.

It has been changed, no company can require that you give them your social security number since about 1999, I don't remember the exact year but I remember when they enacted it. It is for security purposes and also because the number belongs to the government (just as a tax ID) and not the individual. SSN FAQ

Mine (WA) already has a machine-readable PDF417 barcode AND a Code128 barcode.

My MA license four years ago had a barcode AND a magnetic strip.

Just like my college ID had.

Check it out for other states.

Both licenses also have/had holographic watermarks.

Now all of you, stop getting distracted.

Yeah, I live in Texas, too, and I've wondered about that myself. It seems like increasing the size of the database randomly has to just increases the search time without increasing the number of matches a whole heck of a lot in return.

This page says that California, Colorado, Hawaii and Georgia also require it, and I've read that when it was still just optional in California they would lift the prints from the forms of people who refused. That's kinda scary.

Maybe your ability to be sarcastic is somewhat due to the fact that Intel backed down and switched the default to Off.

This to me makes a good point for shunning Phoenix

An employer is not required by law to obtain an employees Social Security number. The law requires only that they ask for it. (How can they be required to obtain an employees SSN, when in fact, there is no legal requirement that a person obtain an SSN in the first place?)

Take a look at this.

Here's a relevant excerpt (And please ignore the religious component... That's not the point.):

Employment is a form of contractual agreement. Generally, the same points made in the previous answer regarding contractual agreements also apply here. If the terms of employment include a requirement that the employee must supply their social security number then there are basically four options available: 1) supply the requested SSN; 2) ask to work out another arrangement where the SSN isn't required; 3) don't work for that company; or, 4) sue the business in court.

An employee or job applicant may be able to receive protection from coerced submission of a SSN for employment purposes by relying on federal anti-discrimination laws. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 Section 703(a)(1), Title VII, 42 U.S.C. Section 2000e-2(a)(1) makes it unlawful to discriminate against any employee or perspective employee on the bases of his or her religion. (This is in addition to the basic Constitutional First Amendment protection of the free exercise of religion.)

In 1992 a complaint was filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) by a Mr. Hanson, wherein he claimed as a "Christian Fundamentalist" he could not obtain or use a SSN. The EEOC filed suit against the business that fired Mr. Hanson on his behalf. The suit claimed that firing Mr. Hanson due to his not having or getting a SSN constituted discrimination due to his religious belief. The business claimed that they were required to either force Mr. Hanson to get a SSN or fire him because they were required by certain IRS Code sections and regulations to report all employees' SSNs on certain IRS forms. The business also responded that it was required by federal law to report all employees' SSNs to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).

The EEOC countered that the only requirement imposed upon a businesses by the various tax laws was that employers must "request" an employee's or potential employee's taxpayer identification number, and that there was be no penalty for a business not succeeding in obtaining one. The EEOC, itself a federal government agency, stated in its "Plaintiff's Response to Defendant's Motion to Dismiss" that:

"the Internal Revenue Code and the regulations promulgated pursuant to the code do not contain an absolute requirement that an employer provide an employee social security number to the IRS."

The EEOC further argued that employers were permitted to use any one of several acceptable forms of identification and employment eligibility verification other than a SSN and still comply with the Immigration Reform Act requirements.

The Court denied the employer's motion to dismiss the complaint. A settlement was later reached in which Mr. Hanson was awarded back-pay. The Court's final decree setting out the terms of the settlement stated that:

"The [employer] shall be permanently enjoined from terminating an employee for failure to provide a social security number because of religious beliefs."

A sincerely held religious belief may serve as a valid basis for objecting to requirements for a social security number for employment purposes. A business could be found guilty of discrimination for taking adverse action against an employee or applicant due to their refusal to use or obtain a SSN.

The Supreme Court has held that states MUST provide a religious exemption to persons who do not wish to provide a photograph for religious reasons. This case law finds that the free exercise clause of the constitution prohibits states from uniformly requiring photographs on driver licenses. Quaring v. Peterson, 728 F.2d 1121 (8th Cir. 1984), cert. granted, 469 U.S. 815, 105 S. Ct. 79, 83 L. Ed. 2d 27 (1984) and judgment aff'd, 472 U.S. 478, 105 S. Ct. 3492, 86 L. Ed. 2d 383 (1985) (also holding that allowing an applicant with such beliefs to have a license without a photo does not violate the establishment clause).
(http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page4/dot-r eg-wisconsin.htm)

The department may require applicants for drivers' licenses to submit fingerprints by means of an inkless fingerprint scanning device upon application; provided, however, that this subsection shall not apply to any person who objects to being fingerprinted on the ground that such activity conflicts with his or her religious beliefs.
(http://www.legis.state.ga.us/Legis/1997_98/leg/fu lltext/sb439.htm)

Remember, anonymity is guaranteed privacy!

Any business that demands your SSN for service can get into trouble with the Federal Govt. for doing so.

Bzzzt. Not true. A private business can ask for your SSN, and you can refuse to give it, but they can also refuse service. See the SSN FAQ at networkusa.org, the CPSR SSN FAQ or the SSA FAQ

wow...
I think the first thing that should be done here is that the requirement of a SSN on any application for a credit card or phone number, etc should be out right banned.
Second, these phone companies should run a two week advertisement announcing the thief of this data and that all people should check with their credit card companies and credit rating companies. The hacked companies should also report this to the credit reporting companies!
I also think the companies should be libel for a million dollars of damage per incident (person).
Finally a quick google search on legal uses of social security numbers turns up quite a few things worth reading: SSN FAQ

They are available here.

================================================== ====================
SCAN THIS NEWS
1/31/99

Global Electronic Commerce Plan Hits Public Acceptance Snag

Who instructed Intel to program digital IDs into their new Pentium III
computer CPUs? Was this something they came up with independently, or was it
done in furtherance of a larger agenda?

Who instructed all four of this nation's banking regulatory agencies to
simultaneously propose "Know Your Customer" identification regulations
coincidentally at the very same time that lawmakers in other countries were
also instituting KYC policies? Did all of these entities propose nearly
identical laws and regulations at the same time just by chance, or did
someone plan and orchestrate the event?

Whatever you believe, you should not dismiss the fact that plans are
presently being made and implemented on the global scale which will
ultimately determine how you conduct business - possibly all business - in
the future. The fact that plans are underway is no secret; however, the
precise details are very secret. The overall plan has been made public; but
the intricacies will not become public until the necessary national laws and
regulations are securely established, and the agreed upon technologies have
been incorporated.

The establishment of a global framework under which all business will
eventually be conducted is every bit as profound as the establishment of the
Federal Reserve Banking system here in the U.S. in 1913, which placed total
control of this nations economy solely in the hands of a few, un-elected
individuals. Although the Federal Reserve system has been the focus of much
talk of "conspiracies" and secretive planning, few people today are even
aware that the establishment of a vastly more ominous global financial
system is being instituted right under their collective noses. Global
planners are now spreading their tentacles of economic control over the
entire globe which will eventually afford them complete and total power over
the world's economies.

Before all commerce can be conducted electronically however, a number of
foundational provisions must first be put into place. Perhaps chief among
these is the ability to positively identify all parties who engage in
electronic business - particularly over the Internet. This will require a
combination of technologies to identify both the user and the equipment from
which a transaction originates.

Contracting parties will be identified through the use of either "digital
signatures" that will be assigned to each individual by the government, (see
linked article below), or by using digitized fingerprints captured and
transmitted at the time of a transaction. Digital fingerprint readers are
now available for use with PCs, and Windows 98 already includes an
Application Programming Interface (API) which allows for easy hook-up of
personal fingerscanner devices. Recently, Compaq computer company announced
that it had begun marketing a PC-based fingerscan reader for under $100
each.

Another prerequisite to the global transactions system will be the
establishment of Electronic Commerce Taxation agreements so that local,
state, and national taxes can be collected at the "point of sale." As more
and more purchases are made over the Internet, various government agencies
are beginning to clamor about lost revenue due to electronic sales that are
not taxed. Tax revenues diminish in direct proportion to the increase in
un-taxed electronic sales. This issue will have to be addressed very soon,
one way or another.

Computer chips with electronic IDs and personal digital signatures (or
electronic fingerprints) will satisfy both the taxing and the contractual
requirements by associating every electronic sale with originating locations
and participant individuals. Legally, the "identified person" and the owner
of the "identified terminal" will be liable for whatever tax is imposed at
the time of the transaction. The tax will be levied and collect when the
sale is conducted.

Law enforcement interests will be central to whatever electronic commerce
technologies are eventually established. Therefore, assurances will be
provided for the ability to trace all transactions back to an individual,
identify the originating address, and verify the computer terminal used.
These system's inherent traits will provide the ability to track all
transactions so that illegal activity can be monitored.

Because of the tax component of the electronic commerce equation, and
because of law enforcement interests, "anonymous" electronic activity may be
outlawed under the system currently being planned. A gossamer form of
anonymity may be permitted to the extent that the veil of privacy can be
lifted in the event unacceptable activity is detected.

The planners may allow "pseudo-encrypted transactions," but only if
designated governmental entities (probably international in nature) have the
"keys" to all approved encryption algorithms. Only approved encryption
schemes will be permitted in the global electronic commerce system.
Un-approved technologies and encryption schemes simply will not be allowed
over the international transactions system.

Not only will the system provide a means to monitor suspicious transactions,
but the technologies that are being developed will also certainly
incorporate methods for identifying all other un-approved, un-authorized, or
otherwise illegal online activity. Therefore, the same identification
standards that are finally agreed upon for electronic commerce will most
likely also be required for all other electronic correspondence transmitted
over the Internet.

On July 1, 1997, President Clinton released his Presidential Directive on
Electronic Commerce which sets out the agenda for accomplishing the above
objectives. On that date, he also announced the release of "A Framework For
Global Electronic Commerce;" the official administrative plan for the
development of a global electronic commerce system.

The President's Directive delineates the fundamental areas in which
government agencies are to work with law enforcement and private sector
businesses, both nationally and internationally, to develop new technologies
which will assure that electronic transactions can be conducted "securely."
Clinton's Directive states:

"According to several estimates, commerce on the Internet will total tens
of billions of dollars by the turn of the century and could expand rapidly
after that, helping fuel economic growth well into the 21st century.

"For this potential to be realized, governments must adopt a
market-oriented approach to electronic commerce, one that facilitates the
emergence of a global, transparent, and predictable environment to support
business and commerce."

"In promoting robust security needed for electronic commerce, the
Administration has already taken steps that will enable trust in encryption
and provide the safeguards that users and society will need. The
Administration, in partnership with industry, is taking steps to promote the
development of market-driven standards, public-key management infrastructure
services and key recoverable encryption products."

"Many businesses and consumers are still wary of conducting extensive
business over the Internet because of the lack of a predictable legal
environment governing transactions. This is particularly true for
international commercial activity where concerns about enforcement of
contracts, liability, intellectual property protection, privacy, security,
and other matters have caused businesses and consumers to be cautious."

"Today I have approved and released a report -- "A Framework For Global
Electronic Commerce" -- outlining the principles that will guide my
Administration's actions as we move forward into the new electronic age of
commerce. This report articulates my Administration's vision for the
emerging digital marketplace by declaring a set of principles, presenting a
series of policies, and establishing an agenda for international discussions
and agreements to facilitate the growth of electronic commerce."

"Accordingly, I am hereby directing that executive department and agency
heads should be guided in any future actions they take related to electronic
commerce by the following principles:"

"7. I direct the Secretary of Commerce to work with the private sector,
State and local governments, and foreign governments to support the
development, both domestically and internationally, of a uniform commercial
legal framework that recognizes, facilitates, and enforces electronic
transactions worldwide. I further direct the Secretary of Commerce within
the next 12 months to seek to gain agreement with the private sector, State
and local governments, and foreign governments, both domestically and
internationally, on common approaches for authentication of electronic
transactions through technologies such as digital signatures."

The Framework itself states:

"The United States, through the Department of the Treasury, is working
with other governments in international fora to study the global
implications of emerging electronic payment systems. A number of
organizations are already working on important aspects of electronic banking
and payments. Their analyses will contribute to a better understanding of
how electronic payment systems will affect global commerce and banking.

"The Economic Communiqué issued at the Lyon Summit by the G-7 Heads of
State called for a cooperative study of the implications of new,
sophisticated retail electronic payment systems. In response, the G-10
deputies formed a Working Party, with representation from finance ministries
and central banks (in consultation with law enforcement authorities). The
Working Party is chaired by a representative from the U.S. Treasury
Department, and tasked to produce a report that identifies common policy
objectives among the G-10 countries and analyzes the national approaches to
electronic commerce taken to date.

"As electronic payment systems develop, governments should work closely
with the private sector to inform policy development, and ensure that
governmental activities flexibly accommodate the needs of the emerging
marketplace."

"Of particular importance is the development of trusted certification
services that support the digital signatures that will permit users to know
whom they are communicating with on the Internet.

[The Framework on Electronic Taxation]

"The taxation of commerce conducted over the Internet should be consistent
with the established principles of international taxation, should avoid
inconsistent national tax jurisdictions and double taxation, and should be
simple to administer and easy to understand.

"Any taxation of Internet sales should follow these principles:

"* It should neither distort nor hinder commerce. No tax system should
discriminate among types of commerce, nor should it create incentives that
will change the nature or location of transactions.

"* The system should be simple and transparent. It should be capable of
capturing the overwhelming majority of appropriate revenues, be easy to
implement, and minimize burdensome record keeping and costs for all parties.

"* The system should be able to accommodate tax systems used by the
United States and our international partners today.

"Wherever feasible, we should look to existing taxation concepts and
principles to achieve these goals.

"Any such taxation system will have to accomplish these goals in the
context of the Internet's special characteristics -- the potential anonymity
of buyer and seller, the capacity for multiple small transactions, and the
difficulty of associating online activities with physically defined
locations.

"To achieve global consensus on this approach, the United States, through
the Treasury Department, is participating in discussions on the taxation of
electronic commerce through the Organization for Economic Cooperation and
Development (OECD), the primary forum for cooperation in international
taxation.

[End of excerpts]
-------------------------

THE FATF AND KYC

The individual pieces of the Global Electronic Commerce plan are being put
into place currently worldwide. One element of the plan is the banking
industry's "Know Your Customer" program which establishes standards banks
must use in identifying individuals for all banking-related activities. The
Financial Actions Task Force (FATF) - established by the same Global-7
organization mentioned in the "Framework" - is the international
organization charged with developing and globally implementing the KYC
standards. The FATF's plan, called the "40 Recommendations," established the
KYC requirements that all member countries are now working to implement.

Although the KYC proposal has recently suffered a setback in the U.S. due to
public rejection of the identification and monitoring provisions, the
international FATF organization has not - and will not - abandon the
concept. The FATF identification measures must be put into place before the
electronic commerce system can go forward. Don't expect KYC identification
requirements to go away. In fact, federal regulators have stated that nearly
all of the KYC provisions are already in place at all major, and most
smaller, U.S. banks.

Related to this is the bank policy - which most banks have adopted -
requiring all non-member customers to submit a fingerprint in order to cash
checks. As electronic fingerscanners become cheaper and more readily
available it can be expected that banks will soon begin requiring digitized
fingerprints in order to open accounts and even for established customers to
transact regular banking business. Digitized fingerprints will also likely
be required for conducting conventional business whenever chargecards and
checks are used. The justification will be to "protect the customer and to
prevent fraud;" the now familiar chorus sung by all data-collecting
entities - public and private.

INTEL AND THE ID CHIP

The Framework for Global Electronic Commerce additionally proposes the
development and incorporation of new technologies that will assure that
"secure transactions" can be conducted over the Internet. The "Framework"
states that government will work with private sector industry to develop the
necessary technology and to assure that the requisite standards are put into
place by commercial concerns.

Intel spokesman Tom Waldrop was quoted in Wired Magazine (1/31/99) as saying
the purpose of the digital ID that has been programmed into Pentium chips
was to develop a method for "the consumer to have a secure transaction over
the Internet." This is essentially the same wording as used in President
Clinton's Directive and Framework for Global Electronic Commerce. Intel's
plan to assign a digital ID to all of its new Pentium III computer chips is
consistent with the Framework's objective for global electronic commerce.

Due to strongly vocal objections from the public - particularly those
concerned with privacy issues - Intel has agreed to alter their chip design
so that the ID feature will be turned off by default. The ID feature can,
however, be turned on using Intel-provided software.

If the emerging global electronic commerce system ultimately requires that
all CPUs have an ID feature, and that all users "identify" themselves when
logged on to the Internet - as is currently being planned - there may be no
option but to either acquiesce to the privacy-invading stipulations or
simply stop using the Internet altogether.

Scott McDonald
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
IN ANNOUNCEMENT OF ELECTRONIC COMMERCE INITIATIVE
http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/New/Commerce/remarks. html


PRESIDENT CLINTON'S FRAMEWORK FOR GLOBAL ELECTRONIC GOVERNMENT
http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/New/Commerce/


See also:

"Feds want a digital certificate in every pot,
July 16, 1998" - CNN News
http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/16/digicert.idg /index.html


"Firm Sidesteps Intel on Chip ID" - Wired Magazine
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/17 624.html
"...the purpose of the digital ID is so that "the consumer
to have a secure transaction over the Internet."

"Let Your Fingers Do the Login" - Wired Magazine
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/13 507.html


================================================== =====================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
================================================== =====================
Reply to:
================================================== =====================
To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to
and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY.
Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY.
For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------------
"Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N.
Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page:
www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml
================================================== =====================