Slashdot Mirror

Dumb idea. Whether you love Notes or hate it, open sourcing it would just be dumb when there's already 800 engineers working on it inside IBM. The number of developers that would contribute to it would drop dramatically.

If you want to develop open source applications ON TOP of Notes/Domino -- you can just look to http://www.openntf.org/

While by no means a replacement for custom development, check out OpenNTF for tons of great open source Notes applications.

Looks like he posted the wrong link - try this one:
http://www.openntf.org/projects/pmt.nsf/ProjectLoo kup/Open%20Secure%20Password%20Repository

Hmm -- you're right. I just copied & pasted the URL out of their documentation in the application without looking at it. Still, the names are correct, and we got it off http://openntf.org/, so folks should be able to find it.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll try to let the author know.

http://www.openntf.org/Projects/pmt.nsf/ProjectHom e?ReadForm&Query=Open%20Notes%20Picture%20Database

It's written by Christian Brandlehner, Jason Engel and Hynek Kobelka. Encrypts the password for the chosen people. Requires the Notes ID to get to it. Very secure. You can control who gets onto the server, then another list of who can get into the application, and finally a third list of who is allowed to see each individual password. The passwords are stored in an encrypted format (for each ID file), so cracking the server does you no good. You can allow everyone in the company access to it, but without the document being encrypted for their ID, they can't tell what the password is. VERY secure.

Since the Lotus Notes client has just been released for Linux, all y'all zealots can't complain as much, though I know the "Lotus Notes UI sucks" people will swarm out of the woodwork.

Oh well. It's good enough for IBM and the CIA to use.....

Definately Domino/Lotus Notes.

go to http://www.notes.net/ and download a trial and then go to http://www.openntf.org/ and check out some of their projects.

Well... If it is that important to you, you can either spend 5 minutes customising the mail template or use a whole different template (see http://www.openntf.org/) that mimics Outlook. You can even use Outlook as a client if you're so inclined.
The point is that there are a lot of ways that you can actually do something about it, while with Exchange you are basically stuck. Almost every design template that is included with Lotus Domino and Notes contains the full code, including the mail template.

1) If there are better email templates out there that are more sensibly, why doesn't IBM ship them? The only possible explanation is that IBM doesn't give a crap about the usability of their software. That's enough right there for them to lose my recommendation. We give this email client out to nurses, I can guarantee they don't even know what 'template' means, much less how to switch them in Notes.

2) I might be "basically stuck" with Outlook, but at least the default configuration in Outlook *works* about 50 times better than the default. I'd rather be stuck with something that works well than have to spend 5 minutes per machine going through some arcane process to get something that (frankly) probably is still worse than Outlook.

Lotus Notes R5 (the predecessor of Notes 6) was released in 1998. Your argument holds for almost all Windows software that was released at that time (including a lot of Microsoft's own stuff).
Lotus Notes implements roaming via the Domino server (just tick the "Roaming User" checkbox in the directory entry). Roaming using the standard windows roaming os a recipy for disaster since it will corrupt local settings once you log on on two locations simultaneously.

Well, then, shouldn't they FIX that bug? You're basically arguing that they don't support a long-standing OS feature because their product is buggy... not a very compelling argument.

Although, frankly, I was unaware Notes supported roaming users at all considering that I have to keep track of the stupid little ID files every time I install a new Notes user. How do you tell Domino to automatically transfer the ID file to each computer the user roams to? Usually Domino deletes the ID file from the server the first time you install the user.

Have you considered that Lotus Notes has existed way longer than 'F5=Refresh' on Windows? And that they're not Windows only? (even though they're limited to MacOS X at this point, a Linux client is well underway -- you should read up on 'Hannover'). In Lotus Notes, F9 has been the 'refresh key' for ages, so there's at least some consistency in their UI ;-).

Read my complaint more carefully. It's not that F5 doesn't perform a refresh (it doesn't in Outlook, either), it's that F5 doesn't perform a refresh, then COMPLETELY CHANGES THE STATE OF THE PROGRAM and requires you to click, then type your password, then hit enter to get back where you were. That's what I mean by user-hostile: Notes shouldn't punish me (by making me type in stuff) just by trying out a function that works in most programs. If F5 did nothing at all, I'd have no complaints about it.

Have you considered that Lotus Notes has existed way longer than 'F5=Refresh' on Windows? And that they're not Windows only? (even though they're limited to MacOS X at this point, a Linux client is well underway -- you should read up on 'Hannover').

They might have a client for OS X, but have you ever tried using it? It's even worse than the Windows client, if such a thing is possible. They also have a web client that works with... IE (Windows-only), but seems to freeze every few minutes if you use any other browser. And yet one of the big features supporters of Notes always bring up is how cross-platform it is!

Look, Exchange has Outlook for Windows and Entourage for Mac OS. So it's equally compatible with Notes/Domino if you only consider that. It also has a web interface that works well

But even if you're using 7, you have to think to yourself: "It took them until version 7 before Notes could sort by subject line? One of the MOST BASIC FUNCTIONS of a list box, and Notes couldn't manage it without 6 revisions?"

It only took until Notes version 6 for it to cleanly support multi-user OSes also. Windows NT had only been out, what, a DECADE, before Notes decided to support it? Oh, but it still puts its own data in Local Settings, so if you want to use Roaming Profiles and Notes, you're SOL.

But my major gripe is that F5 doesn't refresh. Not only does it not refresh, but pressing the key (expecting it to refresh) actually locks you out of the product and you have to re-enter the password to get back in. It's not just a bad user interface, it's actually user-hostile.

I definitely know and acknowledge that the Lotus Notes client leaves a lot to be desired for, but the platform as a whole is pretty damn strong. When was the last time you heard about a virus/worm targetted at Lotus Notes/Domino? Its security is pretty good by design, it runs on a gazillion platforms and it can actually scale up.

(Disclaimer: I don't work for IBM or Lotus, but I know a thing or two about Lotus Notes)

OpenNTF is an opensource project for Notes that replaces many of the lotus databases such as mail and calendar. It is well worth a look.

Obviously, you are an email admin, not a developer.

First... Notes is more than just email, in fact email is just a tiny part of it. Consider that the record-breaking websites for several Olympic Games were run on Notes/Domino. ("The Nagano Olympics and Wimbledon sites served record numbers of hits per day (630 million).")

Notes/Domino has been a model for incorporating standards into a development platform. They were one of the first to start using OLE/DDE over a decade ago and one of the first 4GLs to incorporate HTML and Java in the 90's. Right now, it has everything from XML/HTML/Java/J2EE to actually being an LDAP server when you want it to. Oh, and they don't implement these standards the way Microsoft does, they are actually very, very open. Which reminds me, they support Linux, OSS and there are even personal efforts on that front.

Oh, and I think you misrepresent what your article link states.... Notes is not 'hard to get rid of' because of thick clients, it's hard to get rid of such a valuable development platform.
p.s. Websphere Portal was moved UNDER the Lotus Software division, it's not dead, it's growing !

Please learn a bit more, then get back to me ;)

OpenNTF

I use Notes 6 mail all the time - all the UI goodness of Outlook, but with 99% fewer viruses! And if you don't like the way Notes mail looks or acts, you can change it.

Sean

There is an Open Source mail template that you can use instead of the mail template you get out of the box. (incidentally have you tried iNotes web access, that is a very good interface even if it is IE only) go look at OpenNTF for the OpenNTF mail template and also whilst you are there check out BlogSphere which is used by a whole community of Domino Bloggers.
Alan.

Point of information - Lotus Notes has handled mail, scheduling, groupware, and more since Day 1, and has done so seamlessly. (Where do you think Microsoft got the idea for Exchange?)

Plus, the server package (Domino) runs on a variety of hardware platforms and OS's; encryption is native to both server and clients; replication is faster and more reliable than Exchange/Outlook; and the whole setup is much easier to secure against crackers and viruses.

As an added bonus, there are even open-source projects devoted to the Domino/Notes architecture.

Granted, Domino is neither beer-free nor speech-free, there's currently no native Linux version of the Notes client (grrr), and there's a lot of FUD directed against Lotus products by Microsoft and their cronies. However, with patience, persistence, and skill, you should be able to move 'em away from MS and towards something a little more geek-palatable.

[Let it be known that I do not work for Lotus or for IBM.]

You're right about the functionality difference between Notes and Exchange - Notes wins hands down. Also, the latest version of Notes fixes most of the "ugly interface" issues previous versions suffered from. Another bonus: if you don't like the look, or even the functionality... you can change it. The folks at OpenNTF have even released an open source version of the template that looks/acts like MS Outlook on steroids.

This is not your father's Notes.

Sean

P.S. I have no business connection with IBM/Lotus... just a fan.

It's not relational, it's been described as 'document oriented' which is perfect for storing and retrieving XML docs. It's also extremely flexible, extremely secure (NSA, CIA, FAA, and 80+ million other users), and fast to program with (RAD), and supports tons of open standards. For you fans of "View Model Controller" - Domino has been using this architecture for over 15 years now...

The XML classes are built in (or easily extend your own classes using LotusScript, Java, C++, COM, anything really!!!) There is an intro on the dev site that described the classses. Check out the demo code in the sandbox, or surf from the main product page. By the way, it runs on almost any OS/Platform (AIX, OS/400, Linux, Solaris, Windows).

Personally, I would use Domino if I was going to create a repository fo reports in XML. The model fits like a glove and it's a pleasure to program/maintain.

Here's a few random Domino related URLs for you...

Gary's Devendorf is the Product Manager for the AppDev portion of the Domino product and he has a section on one of the dev sites with XML references.
Off topic, but you can run your blog on the side (graphically challenged site warning) check out the links to Domino people, especially Libby !
And there's even an Open Source group of Domino developers.

Lotus Notes design may not be winning any awards, but guess what? As a designer you have FULL CONTROL to modify the UI however you like! While the backend code of Lotus Notes/Domino may be closed, the front end is fully customizable. It supports POP, IMAP, HTTP, SSL, NNTP, LDAP, SOAP, XML, COM, CORBA and more. You can write code against it in scripting languages like Lotus' Function language and JavaScript, a VB like language (LotusScript) that is more OO than VB6 (supports classes and inheritance for example), or write code against it with Java or C. You've got API's into just about everything in Notes as well so you can change whatever it is you dislike.

If you can't give up the Outlook client, Domino supports using the Outlook client against a Domino backend. Granted, native Notes features such as document links do not work in Outlook (because it has no equivalent functionality), but the majority of the features work seamlessly and some are also improved by running against Domino instead of Exchange (security and better support for remote users are two that immediately come to mind).

If you don't want to run an Exchange server or a cluster of NT boxes for messaging, run Domino on practically whatever you want, from big iron to Linux. Let everyone keep the Outlook clients they're used to if it meets everyone's needs, or customize the Notes UI to look and act like Outlook, like the OS Notes developers at www.openntf.org did with Lookout Express.

If you don't like the UI, change it. If a button doesn't work the way you think it should, or you wish it had a different feature, change it. You can.

ducky