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My account has shown no activity since June 1, 2004. No, I take that back. I paid for lunch with my debit card, and this is reflected in my account balance.

I got paid last night.. I think. (-: It doesn't show in my account. Meaning that the money (CERTAINLY debited from my employer) is in limbo, and RBC is probably making a LOAD of cash (in interest) on the "unclaimed" sums (think -- my pay, times 1million+ customers).

But, here's what I'm thinking: since they are unable to report actual account balances in the ATMs, then the ATMs are likely unable to determine a lower bound on the account, meaning that I could withdraw my maximum, PAST the $0 limit, into the red (when everything syncs up again), all without overdraft.

I _SUSPECT_ that RBC has put limits on maximum daily withdrawals for people normally without, until accounts start reporting properly.

This note is currently attached to my online banking interface: "Due to a processing disruption, transactions made on June 2 and June 3, 2004 may not yet be reflected in your account balances. We expect your account balance will be updated by the end of this weekend. If you are experiencing any difficulties, please contact your branch, or account manager or 1800 Royal 1-1 (1800-769-2511). We apologize for this inconvenience. "

More info here, here
here here here and here.

Last point: no idea why, but RY has climbed this week. Maybe I'm not so far off on the "free money" theory posted above.

S

I was too curious to just let it be - I punched a couple of keys on the keypad and it wrote the digits I typed, but after 1-2 seconds I guess some watchdog kicked in and the thing blanked and flashed then showed an out-of-service notice.

Not true of CIBC. My girlfriend uses CIBC and we've not been able to connect *once* to their on-line banking system from home, using Mozilla (which is what I use). Doing it from work and using IE is not an ideal solution. I've complained about this but received nothing back.

I bank with Royal Bank and their system has been great. No fancy java or ActiveX rubbish, just plain HTML.

She's now switching to Royal Bank. Vote with your money.

Well I use the Royal Bank of Canada and American Express and they not only both work great with Mozilla but RBC has one of the best online banking sites I have ever used, it even accesses my other accounts from other banks and gives me everything on one page!

ING Direct on the other hand has one of the worst web pages I've ever seen or used. It's like it was done by a preschooler with big huge orange buttons and dumb phrases at the top. It works with all browsers though so I guess I shouldn't complain.

-- iCEBaLM

I'm not worried about fraudsters, it's the merchant themselves that are really dangerous.

Merchants are held to a very strict contract with the credit card company called the Merchant Agreement. It states exactly what can and can't be done. For example, merchants cannot favor the use of one card over the other ("We'll take Amex, but we prefer Visa."). They also can't apply a surcharge when you pay by credit card. (Merchants have gotten around this by calling things "already cash discounted; add 2% for credit card payment".)

"Mr. DiCarlo, you did not just buy a loaf of bread, you entered a contract in which we will supply you daily with three loafs of bread for a minimum contract length of 2 years and in which the initial discount of 80% expires after the 3rd delivery."

Show me my non-forged signature on something that says that and you can have my money because I was a dipshit for not reading the fine print. A bank will also expect a copy of that.

It all comes down to precisely two items: the signature and the card imprint. If you, as a merchant, don't have the person's signature on a slip clearly outlining what they're authorizing by signing it, or alternately a credit card imprint to prove the card was physically there, then you have no basis to defend against a chargeback, period.

You will then say that the credit card company will intervene? Yes, they will negotiate with this particular vendor, especially if he's big enough, and in exchange for a higher commission rate on the transaction, they will prevent their customers from successfully initiating charge-backs.

There are laws protecting consumers that prevent this. Notwithstanding that, if your bank will stab you in the back over a transaction, you can take your interest payments (and merchants' discount fees on every transaction you do) elsewhere. My bank doesn't do that kind of shit. (I know from experience, as stated in my post.) Also, they'd make more money off you legitimately than by screwing you over once (because that's all it'll take to lose your business forever).

--

One, it's a pain in the ass to go to the bank every time you want a fresh number.

Two, there are only so many numbers available in the 16-digit LUHN-verified pool currently in existence. There are even further restrictions:

• Based on the first digit:
  • 2=Vendor
  • 3=Amex [Discover too?]
  • 4=Visa
  • 5=MC
  • 6=Store/Other [Discover too?]
• Based on the first 4 or 6 digits, ie:
  • 4510=Royal Bank Visa
  • 4512=Royal Bank Gold/Platinum Visa
  • 4512 12xx=Royal Bank Gold/Platinum Visa from Central Card Center area
  • etc...
• 4480=Security First Network Bank

Three, it's more trouble than it's worth, considering you are only legally responsible for the first $50 of unauthorized charges to your card, and most banks won't even hold you to that. I've had merchants double-bill me (and once some totally unauthorized charge from Denmark showed up), and Royal Bank instantly credited my account for the full amount and mailed me a form to sign and return stating that the charge in question was unauthorized. In every instance, the whole process took less than 5 minutes of my time and was totally painless.

Essentially, the banks themselves are the only ones left holding the bag when fraudulent use occurs. As a result, they either hold the money back from the merchant's future payments or write it off. Joe Consumer (you and I) aren't liable for it, and generally aren't affected by it. Worst case, if the abuse on your particular card keeps up, they might cancel your card and send you a new one with a different number. Big deal.

--

Now, whether or not it will work with a text-based browser I don't know... I suppose that so long as your browser can make HTTPS connections you would be fine, as they don't appear to use javascript.

The fee is a little high; something like CDN$4 per month, plus there might be some transaction fees. But, if you sign up for telephone banking, you also get the online banking included, I believe.

shane.