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Royal Bank of Canada Software Upgrade Goes Awry
Reader mks113 writes "Many Canadians living payday to payday have been in for a shock this week. Canada.com along with many other sources is reporting how thousands of customers have been inconvenienced following an unsuccessful software upgrade at the Royal Bank of Canada on Monday. All government employees (including me) in several provinces had their direct deposits delayed by a day or more." RBC has a comment on the mess.
They actually pay Canadians?... With money?
I guess that bad karma is pretty sticky. Even selling their preferred A-1 shares to Baystar didn't save them.
My Canadian friends are screaming bloody murder. I don't blame them.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
As an employee of Interplay, I can say that a 1 or 2 day delay in pay is nothing at all to worry about.
I think its interesting that major important systems can still fail so miserably in this day and age. Seems to happen all too often.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
Coincidence, maybe, that England's air traffic control goes down during a software upgrade, and then the same happens to the Royal Bank of Canada?
Paranoia keeps you healthy!
Let the SCO jokes begin! This kind of story is a god-send for /. hecklers.
"There is no knowledge that is not power"
This affects a lot of people - even if you don't bank with Royal Bank but your employer does then you will be affected. The HR manager where I work sent out a bulletin today that should apply to anyone affected by this situation:
----
All financial institution are on line with this issue, mortgage or automatic debit payments, will be honored, should anyone be charged interest , advise your bank,the Royal Bank will refund the charges.
All financial institution will advance cash based on an employee presenting a pay stub, they will not advance the full amount of the pay stub , they will however provide cash for the weekend.
----
Second major system to go down due to software upgrade in as many days. Coincidence?
--- Tao
I deposited a money order at an RBC branch on the 2nd of june, they told me it would take 12 hours. it still has not been put in my account, same with my pay from today.
At least I have real reason why my rent is late this month..
had their direct deposits delayed by a day or more."
Wait till your bank holds onto your payroll checks for 2 weeks.
Once a bank of mine made an addition mistake, i wrote a pile of checks that all bounced. The bank acknowledged their mistake, and restored funds in my account, but refused to help out with all the check-bouncing fees.
$25 X 17 Hurray.
do() || do_not();
I just hope their programmers aren't unionized. Heads should roll for this one. In cases like this, you should be lucky if you aren't held 100% liable.
Dark Nexus
"Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
Geez, I'm showing my age again...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
why they wanted their money back from SCO. ;)
I've heard a lot about this here in Canada over the past few days. Does anybody know what systems RBC was using, and what upgrade they were doing? It definitely seems suspicious that they were doing an upgrade at the *end* of the month (May), which is the busiest time for a bank (I know, from having worked at one). Was this really an upgrade gone wrong? Are there any more technical details?
I work for a company that got affected by this. Instead of my payroll deposit coming in last night, it will be sometime today, which doesn't affect me as much, but people with automatic mortgage and car payments might get screwed...
I visited RBC earlier this year to make changes to my retirement plan and I was shocked to see that the account manager used a single PC to manage the accounts and access the internet. When I pointed that out, he said "don't worry, we run the best anti-virus software there is" (McAfee by the look of the icon in the tray). Because, as we all know, it's those viruses that eventually steal passwords and break into the databases. *rollseyes*
Comment removed based on user account deletion
to cut back your lifestyle and save a bit. Even a dollar or two a day can be helpfull over the long haul. Also, if you think that you can't possibly save anything, then you're not trying, you just need to determine what your priorities are.
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
I am a Royal Bank customer too... fortunatly my company uses CIBC, so I went down to the bank on my way to work this morning with my paystub and left with my pay, and all my funds from my account. I closed it and gave my financial buddy at work a new account with CIBC.
Honestly though. Being a software developer and knowing the development cycle like the back of my computer leads me to wonder how in the world they didnt test it fully. I mean... comeon guys. And that kind of institution using SCO's brand of UNIX? face + palm
Oh well... i dont care anymore... i close the accounts and visa card and when they asked me why, I just said: "I can't trust a bank that can't deal with this kind of glitch."
while(1) { fork(); };
http://www.bash.org/?148851 Not to mention the exchange rate.
And people wonder why I've become so incredibly disgusted with standard capitalism: "I owe them a Visa payment, but this glitch hasn't affected their ability to collect the money that's owed to them," Maria Janchenko, 26, said in Toronto, adding that she had been contacted three times this week by a collection agency.
It's their fault that these people aren't recieving paychecks and they're still hassling them aobut paying bills?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Sure, I don't earn interest on it, but at least I have some in an emergency
Yes, because increasing the load on their webserver will CERTAINLY increase stress on their banking mainframes!
From the sounds of it, it's not even REMOTELY a load issue in the first place.
This is what happens when you lose your SCO license to use linux and have to install Windows! Owning SCO was a sweat deal to avoid linux licensing fees.
No, Lou, you're in the unstable branch! Gaah!
I made my credit card payment via online banking on June 1st, and the transaction went through. However, on June 2nd, the system decided to pay my credit card again a second time. Now I'm down a few hundred bucks.... should be fun getting this sorted out :|
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
I don't typically work on these all-or-nothing type of systems. I usually work on embedded controllers, so we have the ability to put, say 10 units into the field for trials. Given the English air troubles and now this, isn't there a way to deploy a system such as this where it can be tested with real-world loads but not be the only system in use? Our controllers are not placed directly on the assembly line on the first day out, just for this purpose.
I for one welcome our new [insert main topic] overlords.
I recently got an overdraft notice on my bank account, four days after depositing my paycheck, in the branch with a teller. After several days of wrangling with their phone customer service and various managers at the bank I finally found out what had gone wrong: the teller had entered the wrong account number into the computer and someone recieved my money in their account. After several more forms and a couple hours of waiting around in the bank they finally got me my money back, but this was after being without cash or check-card for a week. All this because someone, whos job is to be exact, typoed.
I'm sure if this had been their money they would've gotten it back in less than 7 days, and levied some hefty time and inconvenience charges.
-"Nice jacket, who shot the couch?."
junioradmin@rbchost:/> rm -rf core *
waiting
waiting
thinking...this is taking longer than it should
phone rings.
ctrl-| ctrl-| ctrl-| ctrl-|
I love that.. any reasonable costs. How about the cost of damage to someone's credit when a payment can't go through... are they going to write a million credit apology notices? Are they going to write paper letters so you can keep a copy when someone calls into question your credit? The credit system is very damaging in these cases and has no easy fix.... I recommend all people go their RBC branch and get a letter explaining why payments were missed. Have them give you as many registered copies as you need for all your creditors affected.
(1st sig) If this were a snappy sig, you'd be reading it right now. (2nd sig) I'm a karma whore. >Insert FUD here
They tried to upgrade to Linux but they didn't pay the $699 license fee!
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
I work for RBC. Just another reason to ditch this company like a bad habit. Take head, insert directly up ass, do not remove. Story at 11!
I can guaranty that they will not spend 2 seconds finding out if all those overdraft charges and this charge that they are putting on us customers are to be refunded. They will instead wait till people come in one at a time to have them removed... how many people wont bother 1000, 2000 so lets say that's 5$ a head that's 5000$ to 10000$ of extra earnings for the bank.
A psychopath can't tell the difference between right and wrong. A sociopath knows the difference - he just doesn't care.
i bank at RBC, and i have no money in my account right now. and it's my girlfriend's birthday. and she hates the present i got her. and my dog got run over by the bank manager... if i had a dog he would have anyways. it turns out that _some_ of the transactions from the weekend actually did go through, like the ones from my account, so when they reapplied everything yesterday i got double-debited for everything and it emptied my account. whee. fun side note: if you walk into a Royal Bank branch, you'll notice that the terminals behind the counter are running 16bit windows apps. check it out frank, we got this great new version, it's For Workgroups!
Nice planning: an end-of-month upgrade at a financial institution when, by their own admission, transactions are at their peak.
Maybe they thought they would broaden their QA testing base to, say 20,000,000.
Have you Meta Moderated t
That depends on the type of Bank you worked for. May certainly is no different for us than any other month. Then again, general consumer accounts aren't major for us.
Is that after several days they still don't know what the problem is!
"The bank says millions of transactions, from direct pay deposits to bill payments, have been affected by an unknown computer error. "
This could be anything from a simple bug to a disgruntled programmer.. industrial espionage.. etc.
Well, whoever signed off on the code and said "it's ready to go" are the ones who fucked up. I mean I suppose you could have a situation where the actual production environment was vastly different from the development/testing one, but I find that doubtful.
Really, there's all kinds of blame to go around, and programmers deserve some of it, the system never should have been so brittle as to cause these kinds of problems in the first place.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I wonder if the strike at Aliant Telecom, or the impending strike at BCE (Aliant's parent company) had something to do with this. There have been scattered reports throught Atlantic Canada about Western Union transfers not going through, and transactions at Revenue Canada disappearing...
I wonder if the software was written off shore?
Fantasy remains a human right; we make in our measure and in our derivative mode... -- JRR Tolkien
I never pay my bills on time and ...
[NO CARRIER]
Why post a bug story on /. if we can't blame it on M$?
These kind of things do happen quite often if the banking industry is examined as a whole. If it tends to happen to an individual bank on a recurring basis then the depositors should move their money. I myself have been in the position of living paycheck to paycheck in the past and I've nobody to blame for it but myself. The bank is at fault but if someone cannot survive a couple of days without their deposit going in then they should seriously look at how they manage money. If an unforseen emergency arises then they are going to find themselves in dire straits.
"Soory, guy, we didn't get yer check yet, we'll find what the problem is all aboot."
It's only Canadian money.
For the longest time I was living from paycheck to paycheck. Compared to my friends I made some pretty good money for being 20 (30K/Yr) but it didnt seem like much when you were living on your own with rent, insurance, car payments, electric, cable, phone, water, and a girlfriend. Its amazing how things add up. It just so happens that I receive the first paycheck of the month on the same day that rent is due. After paying rent I'm left with about $100. It is also convenient that the second and last paycheck of the month is received on the same day that all of the bills are due. After paying them I'm left with $300. Note I havent mentioned the G/F tax yet but that one is expensive.
Anyway, my tip is, next time you get a bonus, tax returns, some lump sum of money, spend it on next months rent before you can do anything else with it. Trust me on this. If you put it in your savings you can too easily transfer it to checking when you see Wizz-Bang4000 on pricewatch for only $499! I do this every chance I get and it really helps out a lot.
Now if I could only figure out what to do with the SO.
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
I'd rather have the couple days delay be on the bank end. Working for a tanking company, where paychecks get delayed further and further till you aren't even sure if you'll get payed next week for the work you're doing now is a much bigger problem. Of course, having it happen right around rent time is a major bummer - but in this case the "It's the bank's fault" excuse is validated.
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
HPUX and AIX, at least on their web servers, and no doubt also on their critical systems.
c om
See nextcraft: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.rbc.
MW
---
BDOS ERR ON A:>
a beer drinking beaver was found at the mainframe keyboard typing I AM CANADIAN over and over. More details to follow...
presmike
A few short years ago, the Toronto Dominion's entire network went down for a whole day. I happened to be visiting a friend a train ride away, and could not get money out to get home out of any machine. It was frustrating, and it made me wonder why my service charges hadn't gone to redundant connections and machines, but I was able to borrow some cash and get home.
But when it happened a second time, in less than a year, I got a little frustrated and switched to president's choice bank.
My wife uses Royal Bank, and her pay has not gone through yet and it is now more than several days late. I certainly hope they work later than 4pm, monday to friday, to fix this. Some people who were supposed to be paid on the 31st have bounced their rent cheque!
It's makes you wonder what "money" really is, when a software error can make it disappear.
Sure, the largest bank in Canada didn't test a system upgrade long enogh to find that this type of massive failure would happen.
BULLSHIT!
Something is going on and my gut tells me it has nothing to do will a failed upgrade!
But you know... maybe a failure of this size is a good thing, especially if RBC suffers significant losses and decides to lay blame else where!
Maybe businesses will realize that any software company LIKE MICROSOFT - that doesn't offer any type of performance insurance isn't one to be trusted or do business with.
Last I heard... and I'm Canadian, no dumby, a person not a beer, most RBC debit cards were being refused by merchants who have been told all accounts are currently frozen!
Dum dum dum dum!
Sounds like good advice to me. Does everyone else at /. spend all their money the instant it comes in?
like Credit Card Companies do when you withdraw money from your CC.
It's only fair.
Can you imagine working in that IT department right now. My first reaction when I saw this story was that I felt incredibly sorry for those IT guys and gals. Must be hell over there right now!
I know I always sweat when releasing new software, at least I don't have to worry about effecting the bank accounts of millions of people. That would truly be scary!
I hope my Visa payment goes through ok...they had to do everything on paper.
If it isn't tangible, it doesn't exist. How much value can be placed in data that is nothing more than electrons and magnetic images kept in a media grid of some sort?
This sort of occurrence perhaps illustrates how some frightenly important industries are perhaps overly reliant on computerization. Perhaps it also illustrates how far removed some industries have become toward anticipating consequences associated to their high cost automation and computation systems.
I would think that financial institutions would have a reasonable (read that as "hard copy") method to insure such an occurrence wouldn't have this impact.
Mod me troll, if you must, I can't help it.
...they are just written in Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Kashmiri, Malayalam, Marathi, Oriya, Panjabi, Sanskrit, Sindhi, Tamil, Telugu, or Urdu languages
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
you'll notice that the terminals behind the counter are running 16bit windows apps.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If it ain't broke... Remember, it's the upgrade craze that got you into this mess. If they upgraded to 32-bit and all of a sudden you couldn't withdraw money from your account, you'd probably be the first to complain about why they didn't stick to the 16-bit version!
You fucking whining shit.
Also, it's easy to become a packrat without realizing it. SELL, don't toss, your unused items. eBay and flea-market that stuff ruthlessly, every few months. For most things you find in your home, if you haven't used it in 3mo, then you don't need to keep it around.
[
Math correction. If you have two paychecks a month, and (rent=paycheck[1]-$100), this leaves you with (paycheck[2]+$100) for everything else that month.
[
Short of hacking the bank yourself, posting that information on /. was probably the worst possible thing you could have done with it.
Aw crap, ninjas!
I immigrated from the Netherlands to Canada and here are the differences:
1. Cheques? HAHAHHAHAHAH we didn't use them anymore for 15 years. NOT NECESSARY in Europe: you can just 'direct deposit' to everyone. And: NOT necessary to create 'bill payee' lists first - what's the use - just fill in the receivers' details if you want to pay (and yes, of course you can create lists of regular receivers). Also, people can pay ANYONE AT ANY BANK - not just payees who happen to be in YOUR bank's list.
2. Costs: Canadian banks are utterly expensive. Reason: no competition and he - why innovate or be more efficient when we can RAPE customers by charging outrageous fees for CRAP service. In Holland: crap service as well but you DON'T get charged! Just a very modest yearly FIXED fee.
3. Savings interest: in Europe it still pays to have savings account (beats inflation). Here in Canada I get 0.0000000001% (MINUS of course all kinds of 'service' fees because (a) I'm blond (b) I go biking 3 times a week (c) I just happen to be a customer who they can rape.
To give ONE good example that explains the difference. I still have Dutch bank accounts. From here (Canada) - I can use my computer to transfer money DIRECTLY from my Dutch bank account to - let's say - ANYONE in - let's say Greece; and WITHOUT costs. Now try doing that with Any north-American bank; they'll charge you with bizarre fees and the money is NOT in the account of the receiver the same day but instead you will have to wait a week at least. Yea you got a looong way to go (keep on dreaming that USA is the best in everything - take a vacation outside USA some day).
I just have a few big questions, not that the bank is likely to answer any of them. I suppose the inevitable lawsuits may flush out some of them though.
1. What OS(s) were they running before this happened?
2. Were they really doing an upgrade or a crossgrade, that is, switching to a new system altogether?
3. Was this being handled by in house IT or was it being outsourced half way around the world?
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
First the UK air traffic control system, then the RBC, all during "software upgrades." At least that's the story they're letting out, but a worm and/or a breach of the system could also have occurred, perhaps by malicious hackers, perhaos by some who got passwords from some phishing scam, or perhaps some directed attack by "terrorists." I would be interested in info from RBC employees. What really happened?
</tin_hat>
See nextcraft [sic] - HPUX and AIX, at least on their web servers, and no doubt also on their critical systems.
By what logic did you come to that conclusion? Internet Service automatically equals internal systems? Maybe you could do a little more research and find out who is hosting that server farm.
Conversely then you would guess their web servers should also be IBM iSeries systems since they run them internally!
A prominent bay area bank that I'd been using for about 7 years up and decided I didn't exist.
Checking with ~$4,000 - gone
Savings with ~$3,000 - gone
Money Market account with ~ $15,000 (6 months emergency fund) - gone
Visa Card - dead
Took about 2 weeks to get it straightened out. Luckily I had an Amex card I could get cash advances off of otherwise I'd have been screwed.
Now I have a $500 in cash in an envelope shrewdly hidden just in case things break again.
nt
guess i'll be watching my bank account for a few days. my account is with another bank, but my car loan is with rbc and i use direct draft hmm
funny, last time i went to make an extra 5k$ payment on it, the lady at the counter tried to make me switch to them! hah
Unixware sucks.
They must have outsourced to India, I'm sure they got a great deal on cheap code. M
WTF, Are you a monkey who can't stop masturbating?
Learn some self control.
We finally reached an agreement with this Nigerean wife of an ex-general that she found $10,000,000 in a hidden vault behind the ex'es private toilet bin and agreed to give me 10% if I provide them with my checking account number.
Darn Canadian Bank, now the whole deal might not go through...
Yam, yam, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade
How about:
My rule of thumb is try not to live in a neighborhood where you may get stabbed, shot, mugged. If it costs you more to live somewhere for a little more safety it is worth it.
Plus the 1/3 only works in an area where they don't have extremely low rental availability
"I visited RBC earlier this year to make changes to my retirement plan and I was shocked to see that the account manager used a single PC to manage the accounts and access the internet. When I pointed that out, he said "don't worry, we run the best anti-virus software there is" (McAfee by the look of the icon in the tray). Because, as we all know, it's those viruses that eventually steal passwords and break into the databases. *rollseyes*"
Hopefully that *change* was to take your money out of that bank?
---
"Sorry, but according to our [broken] tests [we turn off and on when we feel like it], you are trying to post from an open HTTP proxy [we think]."
I TOTALLY feel your pain, man. I'm 20 and make twice that and it still goes fast. Now obviously I do have more to play with and it's only my insane cheapness/saving-habits that make me live frugally, but not too many people realize just how FAST it goes when you support yourself. My g/f still lives at home and thinks I'm rich. She has no comprehension of bills and taxes.
AC 'cause co-workers read this...
Programmer 1: It happened like 3 days ago, eh.
Programmer 2: And welcome to day 3.
Programmer 1: "make install" hosed it.
Programmer 2: Hosed it down, eh, like backbacon at a Bah Mitzvah.
Programmer 1: But it's okay, eh. I got my thinking touque on and the beer and pizza are on the way.
Programmer 2: Yeah, we should have it back up by tomorrow, eh. Only, we're gonna need some more vacation after this.
Programmer 1: And beer, eh.
Programmer 2: Yeah, more beer.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
At 30k annual and assuming 70% take home, you're bringing in around $3600/month. Of this you have $3200 in bills or 89% of your income.
You're living the American Dream, often refered to by financial planners as living beyond your means.
Let's us these computer things for voting. These problems shouldn't crop up there.
Who are these clowns that the media talk to for their "expert" opinion on computers?
"George Geczy, a software developer and computer consultant based in Ancaster, Ont., guessed that the problem involves identification numbers assigned to transactions"
Thousands of different reasons why their system cratered and some guy running a consulting firm from his basement nailed it for us! Guess his experience in installing MySQL a couple times helped him diagnose their massively huge database issue.
Just because you have a IT job and a bank card, doesn't make you an expert.
"blowing my entire paycheck on hookers and crack"
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Just grow up and dont spend the money.. Its pretty easy..
If you cant control your spending urges, then you have an issue you should actually address and 'solve', not just mask it, as you are suggesting.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Because God knows there are no shitty programmers in the U.S.
This is insightful? I hope aardwolf was actually trying to be funny. Otherwise his "don't save money because it is too easy to spend savings" plan will have him working until the day he dies. Personally, my SO and I live off of one paycheck and put the other into some form of savings or another. Using this plan, we're aiming at having a million smackers in the bank before we're fifty.
Better still, this plan doesn't have us up Shit Creek when a paycheck (or twenty) is missed.
If you have such a serious problem with raiding your savings account direct deposit can be a great tool for you. Have a small chunk of each check sent into this savings account and never touch it. Never ever. Hell, you'd probably be better off if you didn't even open your bank statements for that account but once a year. Whatever you do, living month to month is not the answer.
Peter
Downsize DC Today!
As someone effected by the mess, I have good news, My pay is in the bank. No news whether they "fixed" the problem or used a work around, which is more likely IMHO.
So Microsoft must have been to blame, after! Perhaps RBC has a "non-disclosure agreement" with Microsoft. If the software screws up, RBC won't disclose what OS they are using!
I hope that RBC isn't too dense to learn from an obvious object lesson!
Maybe even Microsoft will finally be able to understand why business users (and most everybody else too) are not keen and enthusiastic over annual "upgrades" and those practically uncountable numbers of "critical bug fixes"!
P.S.
I mean "upgrade" in the sense that Windows 2000 is an "upgrade" from Windows XP!!! Har! Har! Har!
As they say, "A word to the wise may be sufficient, but the truly dense need an object lesson.".
...or just deal with more than one bank.
No more eggs all in one basket scenario.
It makes me wonder; if you piss off enough of the clueful folks in this industry, would they simply not apply at your organization, insuring that the only people your HR department sees are the dregs of the vocational schools? Since HR people can't tell the difference between good IT people and bad, no one would get wind of the situation until such time as there were a major failure in your systems brought on by your shitty IT department. Makes you stop and think, doesn't it?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Hahaha! *falls out of chair laughing*
I got news for you bub. With the way things are in the real world (and not the one "experts" live in). The majority live from paycheck to paycheck. There is little to no, discretionary income to *save*
And assuming there was, how long do you think it will take to get 3 to 6 months worth?
---
"Sorry, but according to our [broken, like our filters] tests [which we turn on and off when we feel like it], you are trying to post from an open HTTP proxy. "
That puts his rent somewhere around $750-800/month which I believe will get you a reasonable 1-bedroom or a not-so-nice 2-bedroom in the Chicago area, adjust accordingly for cost of living elsewhere.
Getting (and staying) a month ahead on your rent seems to me like a perfectly reasonable way to provide yourself with a buffer that you won't normally touch.
fencepost
just a little off
I work at the Ministry Of Health (Ontario) , and RBC was to blame for my 1 day late pay. Software is always to blame isnt it? Next thing you know, it was the computer's fault for ENRON's little mishap. this proves it really is bad karma to invest in SCO
Royal, CIBC, Scotiabank, and Bank of Montreal
As someone pointed out, you missed TD Canada Trust (until recently two banks). There's also National Bank, and Laurentian (which again was recently acquired by another bank, but still has some locations open under that name).
And we even get stuff like Ethical Funds. Who aren't even the one I was looking for that offers a similar service.
I'm one of the Canadians affected - the paycheque I deposited on June 1st disappeared from the system after I had made a withdrawal and a credit card payment, leaving my account in the negative.
Fortunately, I've made it a habit to keep cash on myself at all times (hence the withdrawal), so I'll weather this glitch okay.
A lot of Canadians rely completely on electronic cash (debit cards) for all their purchases. I used to be the same way, until I realized that the only ways the debit card had advanced our society was by:
1. Making store checkout lines twice as slow, as every Dick and Harry tries four debit cards and two credit cards looking for an account with money.
2. Making it easy to overspend because you lose track of your account balances.
3. Leaving you cashless and stranded every time there's a network glitch, a power outage, a bank error, or what-have-you. This happens frequently, and never at a good time.
So now, thanks to the remarkable invention of cash (physical money), I am no longer dependant on the workings of computer systems I have no control over!
they write a press release claiming it was a DDOS attack from the open source community, then ask us to responsibly join them in condemning such attacks?
The fact that slashdot published a link to the Bank Of Canada's website means that apparently they *also* will be experiencing issues with their website. I.T. will be having a bad day at the bank.
"Hate to be a troll, but if you go to the bank teller, always ask them for a receipt and double-check your account numbers on that receipt. "
Yes, however most deposit tickets have your account number on them in magnetic ink. No need to reenter.
"Yes, the teller shoulders some of the responsibility, but so do you."
Not according to his story. Did you read it?
---
"Sorry, but according to our tests [which a thousand monkeys wrote], you are trying [succeeding somehow] to post from an open HTTP proxy."
Speculation:
Suppose Something Bad(tm) happens to the database and the failover machines. Traditionally, you restore from backups, and roll it forward based on the transaction log.
I can think of a few scenarios, but I don't like any of them. Just about every scenario I can imagine involves combinations of restoring the wrong version of the database from backups, a rollback operation that fails, or a rolling forward the wrong set of transactions from a log. I thought the whole point of an RDBMS was to have transactional integrity -- so that if the database thinks it's June 2nd, you can't roll forward a June 1 transaction to make it happen twice. A database shouldn't be able to permit that to happen, even if God himself is at the console.
Any DBA wonks care to speculate further as to WTF could be going on?
Somehow I'm uninspired by the "media-relations officer" saying "I am not a technical person [ ... ] It did have to do with computer software and at this point I understand it did have something to do with sequencing. [ ... ] I honestly don't know. As I say, I mean, it's one of those tech things."
Now, that might be good media relations, but I'm not media. If I banked in Canada, there'd only be one more transaction pending against any account I had at this bank: A transfer of the account's full balance to a competitor.
I was at a remote site installing some new Unix workstations when I got an urgent call from the site administrator for some servers I had just installed a few days ago. One of the workstations was down, and wouldn't come up. I asked him what had changed, had he done anything, etc. He said that he hadn't done anything, could I come quick. I finished up what I was doing, and drove over there (45 miles, unfortunately).
/development directory off of the root disk, loaded a database application into it but filled up the hard disk, and then to clean up after himself did a "rm -r /dev*". The /development directory was gone, along with /dev!
(Background info: I had told the managers at the site that the site admin needed three classes of training, hands on work with me while I installed and implemented the systems, and some other experience before he went solo. The managers agreed to this but they never came through: He got zero training, and "was too busy" to work hands-on with me).
True enough, the system was down, and I had an appointment that night (Friday night, of course), but I would come in over the weekend to see what I could do. Of course, the guy hadn't backed up this system ever according to the backup procedures I had handed him.
I spend three hours on a Saturday trying to get this station up (it had design part data, and that data couldn't be permanently lost), and finally told the managers at the site that they needed to get the vendor out as it appeared to be a hardware problem based on what I was seeing (bios type messages, but once it hit the hard drive it died hard).
Vendor came out, checked out the hardware, and reported that nothing was wrong with the CPU, memory, SCSI cards, busses, disk drive, etc. The site administrator then remembers that the day before everything hit the fan that he created a
Immediately after he told me this little blurb (and I was red hot, Why didn't you tell me when I asked!) he informed me that it was time for him to leave and he did! Luckily for him he did leave, otherwise I was going to strangle him.
Fortunately, I was able to move the disk drive to piggyback off of a similar system, copy the device files from that system to the munged drive, and then recreate the couple of device files that were specific to this system. End result was that the system was back 100% again, and fully backed up (since I had zero confidence in the jerk). I told the managers what had happened, and what the actions of their site admin had cost me both personally and in terms of my work hours. I got blamed by the site admin for "not training him enough", for not being responsive enough, and for accepting his initial story and not digging into it to find out the root causes.
In my case one CU is an account I've had since I was in my teens but their offices are about 15 miles away, and the other is from my former employer and is two states away. I drop in at the local one sometimes since it's about a mile from my girlfriend's office, but if I'm not headed up that direction I can go to the local credit union about a mile and a half from my house.
fencepost
just a little off
Cheney?
" A few short years ago, the Toronto Dominion's entire network went down for a whole day."
Crikey! The Dominion has a network in freakin' Toronto?!? Activate the planetary defense grid before the Jem'Hadar warships overwhelm us!
(Jadzia, I've got a... secure bunker set up. Follow me.)
Don't bank at a bank! I've been through CIBC ($40/mo. in service charges), and RBC (truly abysmal financial service, but only $20/mo. in service charges). Try a Credit Union! They are member-owned, and profits are shared with members, not with shareholders (like at banks).
Personally, i use Citizens Bank of Canada, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of VanCity Credit Union. The best part of Citizens Bank is that it's completely online. Unlimited bank transactions, including debit for free when you have a balance over $1000, or only $8 otherwise.
Some people use President's Choice, but it is the unholy union of Superstore and CIBC: two companies that treat their customers and employees like garbage.
Your right, my budget is fucked. I make NASA look good. I envy you. I've always wanted to actually keep money in savings, but it seems every time I put it there I have to take it out at the end of the month crunch, or those last few days before the next paycheck. Hell, I'd prolly live a lot cheaper and save money but my SO doesnt see eye to eye with me. She obviously could take a lesson from yours. At least I've got a 401K I'm maxing out because I dont want to end up like you said, working until the day I die, fsck that.
Hell, I'm only 21, maybe I should just ditch the chick and go dirt cheap for a while (cut phone, cable, _dates_)
Thankfully I have a bank account at another bank, so my finances aren't paralyzed by this mishap. In situations like this, having a redundant bank account at another bank has been quite handy. I guess a lot of principles of risk management of computers can be applied to things like bank accounts since bank systems are systems after all, and they WILL fail.
Although, in some cases, a redundant account is useless if something hits a bunch of banks. I'm reminded of that internet worm a while back that brought down ATM systems and bogged down the internet. I forget if that was SQL Slammer or Red Code.
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
By reading this sig you've just sold your soul to the Devil. Damn draconian license terms
SO finds envelope :-)
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
Since when does having a girlfriend mean having a money pit? It sounds like the girlfriend is more interested in material goods than you or you are out to make a big, but expensive impression on her.
RBC (ie Royal Bank) invested $50M in SCO simply on the odd chance that they did actually did pull off a court win. Basically they were covering all the bases for their investment funds, which you would expect from any decent financial institution. I don't know for a fact that RBC uses SCO-Unix, but that is not what the money they paid to SCO was for.
My G/F has her daddy pay for everything and she has no idea how much living is either. It sucks when all your friends think your fucking rich or something because you're a "computer guy" for a company while they're nailing drywall.
I actually logged every transaction one month on my iPaq (a gift) and broke it down for her. It ends up that I spend about 1/4 my income on her. I was trying to show her how expensive bills and such are and how it adds up but instead I got one of those nights where you wish you had kept your mouth shut as she sob'd all over the place incomprehensible (sp). You know the drill.
Visa card payments dont go to RBC's internal collections dept until they are 30 or 60 days past due. At 90 days or 120 days they get sold to a collection agency.
So pay your bills and stop blaming the glitch, Maria!
Please mod the parent up.
This is about as specific as we can get at this moment on the nature of the failure.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
jab #1
shoddy code, shoddy practices, all from shoddy india. but, you "save" so much money from outsourcing!? the old phrase "you get what you pay for" seems to still hold true.
jab #2
it doesn't matter. obviously since its such a commoditized market, one upgrade is no different than another... glad I didn't write that brainless CIO blather fodder.
If a day delay could send you under, you have big problems.
"It's inconvenient, yes. But in the long run, having roommates for a couple of years will have helped you out alot."
Until they steal your VCR, money, jewelry, and car.
Did I mention, they got the GF too?
We take our business elsewhere. I shopped around, and I get a way better deal at my bank than I'd get at Royal. Those brigands charge money every time you use a non-Royal DEBIT MACHINE!
Anyway, in Canada, we generally don't go running to lawyers the moment we're slightly inconvenienced. Besides, Royal said they'd pay for every penalty that any of their customers incur.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
My bad, 1/5th
DOH ? !
Re-elect Bush and see what happens to your buck...
Actually, it has more to do with the relative rate at which the US and Canada are inflating their currencies. Inflation, regardless of what the media is babbling about the Consumer Price Index, is about the number of units of currency and the available goods. Period. If the government prints more money, every dollar is worth less. However, that devaluation is not instant. It does take a while for prices to rise. The people who hold the money immediately after it is printed get nearly full value for it.
That's not to say that Pres. Bush and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are unrelated to the inflation of the US currency. However, the US Federal Reserve is also engaged in some pro-cyclic activities in an attempt first to get the US out of the most recent recession and then to keep the recovery going. That would be happening even if all of the US military was guarding airports in the US.
I am a Swiss federal employee, and I know my payday only roughly. I would not notice a day or two delay. I even think that they only pay me around the 20th so the money has reliably arrived by the end of the month.
Be a little flexible here. Technology can always fail and a few days delay should not be a problem. Otherwise your dependency on technology can turn into a real problem.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
And yet the fact that most people have to have two incomes in order to survive, bothers no one. Let alone have enough to save up for that rainy day (even more money since it's two people now)
Maybe we'll realize that something is fundamentally broken, and stop making excuses, and blaming the victums for everything (Yeh old, it's all your fault)
Unix System V or SCO UnixWare? ;-)
Hmm royal bank's computer systems are down, whats the best thing we could do? I know, let's slashfreakindot their webservers!
I'll get paid sometime next week. Thanks.
There was a similar but smaller problem on April 8 (2004) that delayed postings by about half a day. It would be interesting to know the connection -- though doubtful it will ever come to light.
by the time slashdot picks the story up for the geek factor a week has gone by. way to be on the ball guys.
no need to rtfa, its old news. money is safe and sound.
"I didn't say RBC wasn't a fault but shit does happen and you should be prepared for it. It's funny how people have money for video games, booze, SUVs, and phat stero systems but never enough for emergency savings."
Oh lovely. A "everyone has money for video games, booze, SUVs, and phat stereo systems" but not anything "necessary" troll.
You might want to sit down for this. Most people DO NOT own a SUV. Have a crappy K-Tel sound system. And their video games are bargin bin rejects. You NEED booze just to forget how much of a hell your life is (there's a reason russia has an alcohol problem).
So continue with your middle-class myths that the rest of the world is simply living well, and your the only sense of reason in a mad world. I pray you never find out what real poverty (yes the most prosperous nation has poverty) is.
He/She must have handed you a reciept - check it
(I'm going to get modded to -100..)
Thank you for letting us know! We were all so worried and holding our breath waiting for you particularly to get paided (sic). Your good news is welcomed by all of us. We can now pick up the pieces and get on with our lives.
Who lives paycheck to paycheck these days?
I always cringe when I see some company hawking their latest, bleeding-edge, pre-beta technology as a solution to the world's problems. There are still many places where reliability, availability and stability are very important. What's wrong with mainframes and COBOL? Give me boring, standardized and obsolete any day, as long as it works.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
That's a highly desirable breathing space but still leaves you shackled to your paycheck. If you can learn discipline -- where "savings" means "that stack of money that keeps growing and that I will never touch unless my child is dying", you will be FREE.
FREE, to take a six-month leave of absence to do something that's important to you.
FREE, to quit the job that is making you ill with stress, even though you have no prospects at this time.
FREE, where your boss and your company's CFO and any of the financial institutions you keep your money in -- all these have NO SAY in your life, except as far as you wish them to.
You can't protect against everything, but 30K ought to be enough to get ahead. I started out at 15K a year in 1987, and gave some of that away to charities. I know what humble beginnings are like. ESCAPE THEM!
One of our departments here does EDI transactions to debit customer accounts. Not that long ago, they sent a batch through where some of the accounts were duplicates - they'd already been sent the previous time. Result: some customer accounts got debited twice (and some accounts were credited). Not due to an upgrade, just staff error. But it was a clear reminder that many of these systems/processes are not engineered to prevent staff errors and too much still depends on manual steps to be taken. Anyway...for various reasons, I still like to get my paycheck in my hand in paper form, stop at the bank after work, keep some cash out, and get handed a paper receipt for the rest. YMAKT...if electronic purchasing fraud occurs, it's better if you've used a credit card than a debit card. Because the latter pulls the money from the account as your purchase clears, it's harder to get disputed amounts credited back.
None of the exec in the IT division is going to come out and say what the real problem was (they likely have not even told the business people the truth)...
Rumour has it someone messed up the submission of a job on the mainframe... being RBC IT, there likely was no competent oversight... of course a better question is why was it not automated to begin with...
Couldn't happen to a nicer, more deserving bunch of jerkwads.
(/former field-support rep for a vendor, who got *burned* by the incompetence and mendacity of RBC IT personnel who lied to their manager, and my manager, when THEY screwed up their evaluation of our product - AFTER they had dragged the evaluation out past the 12-month mark. . . how the hell do you justify evaluating a product for 12 months?).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
What is one day's interest on all of that money?
They should make the software company pay for that and then they will think harder next time
Mod this anti-Bush troll down. His analysis of the currency movements is grossly oversimplified and merely an excuse to attack GWB.
The RBC banking machine tells me that my bankbook is up to date. However if I look at the balance on the ATM screen it is higher by the amount of one of my latest withdrawls....which was recorded in my bankbook. :=)
If i try to update my bankbook which has the lower amount, the machine tells me that it is up to date (with the lower amount).
Who should i believe? The bank's ATM should be right but something is still out of whack as the bank usually updates info immediately on their ATMs.....DAMN I SHOUD HAVE MADE A LARGER WITHDRAWL!!!
Dilbert: "But what if we turn this on without testing and its doesn't work? Won't the results be catastrophic?"
Ratbert the consultant: "Let me check my contract...nope, I still get paid the same."
Dilbert: "Me, too."
"You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
My account has shown no activity since June 1, 2004. No, I take that back. I paid for lunch with my debit card, and this is reflected in my account balance.
I got paid last night.. I think. (-: It doesn't show in my account. Meaning that the money (CERTAINLY debited from my employer) is in limbo, and RBC is probably making a LOAD of cash (in interest) on the "unclaimed" sums (think -- my pay, times 1million+ customers).
But, here's what I'm thinking: since they are unable to report actual account balances in the ATMs, then the ATMs are likely unable to determine a lower bound on the account, meaning that I could withdraw my maximum, PAST the $0 limit, into the red (when everything syncs up again), all without overdraft.
I _SUSPECT_ that RBC has put limits on maximum daily withdrawals for people normally without, until accounts start reporting properly.
This note is currently attached to my online banking interface: "Due to a processing disruption, transactions made on June 2 and June 3, 2004 may not yet be reflected in your account balances. We expect your account balance will be updated by the end of this weekend. If you are experiencing any difficulties, please contact your branch, or account manager or 1800 Royal 1-1 (1800-769-2511). We apologize for this inconvenience. "
More info here, here
here here here and here.
Last point: no idea why, but RY has climbed this week. Maybe I'm not so far off on the "free money" theory posted above.
S
According to http://www.os2ezine.com/20030916/page_1.html RBC uses NCR computers running Windows. Maybe this is one of the systems affected by Microsoft's latest patch. They should follow the other Canadian banks and use OS/2.
AFAIK, all TDCanadaTrust branches have been instructed to waive/refund NSF penalties stemming from this particular RBC fuckup... I mean, incident. But you MUST complain about it first. If you do nothing, they'll still whack you with the charge. Just ask to speak with someone and 'splain that your idiot employer (like mine) uses RBC and blah blah blah you bounced a cheque. They should waive the fee once RBC gets back on their feet and the money comes in. ;)
Its quite a nice little gesture from them, no? But *shhh* its supposed to be a secret memo for staff only.
Yup, that's TDCT for ya: Doing the right thing (like CT), the wrong way (like TD).
Apologies for this offtopic post (soon to be modded -99 by those Republicans with moderator priveleges no doubt), but this comment, and the toxic meme it propogates, needs to be addressed.
... although after this past four years that could very well change).
... and that is saying a lot.)
... thanks Mr. President).
The USA would be a lot better place if you Democratic nutjobs would just let go
No, it wouldn't.
And I say this as one who did not vote for Gore, and who votes the issues, not the party (which means I vote as often Republican as I do Democratic
Most people did what you advocated, and the results for America have been disasterous. We have overextended our military, spent ourselves into a deficit we may never recover from, lost virtually all of our world prestige, the vast majority of our close allies (alliances that had lasted more than half a century burned up in just four years of GW Bush's rule), and all of our credibility in the rest of the world. The list goes on, but I think you probably get the point.
Indeed, the USA would be a better place if people had taken to the streets or risen up in outright revolt after the Republicans stole the election and discarded the expressed will of the American people, as it was cast at the ballot office (including Florida, which a full statewide recount sponsored by the media demonstrated conclusively that Gore had won. As an aside, it is interesting how the domestic media then unreported and spun their own study to favor Bush, while their overseas collegues reported it more accurately. Go figure.)
Undermining the democratic process, as the Republicans and their supreme court appointees did in 2000, is terribly destructive irrespective of the qualifications of the usurpur who governs thereafter. The damage to our institutions is quite severe and will be quite long lasting, not least of which because the last branch of our government that had, to all appearances, remained somewhat unsullied by politics, namely the Judicial, has shown itself at its highest levels to be more interested in paying back political favors than ruling sensibly on constitutional law. (Yes, I've actually read their decision. Have you? It is the most convulated series of transparent justifications for violating the intent and will of the constitution and the American voters I've ever read
Of course, in this case we've ended up with an incompetent usurpur to boot, who used his artificially inflated legitimacy post 9/11 to prosecute an unrelated war against his family's enemy in Iraq, thereby overextending the US military and quite possibly costing us a victory in the real war we should be fighting, namely the War on Terror (hint: Afghanistan, NOT Iraq, although Bush's activities have certainly made Iraq from an inhospitable secular environment for Al Q'aide into a veritable breeding ground and ideal staging area
- lose the rhetoric and actually address issues people are concerned about. If that had actually happened in 2000 Al Gore would be president right now.
"People" are concerned about the economy and how much gasoline for the SUVs costs. We have very systematically and very effectively dumbed down our population, to the point where an election can be stolen out from under their noses and their main concern will be "but will this preempt my Saturday afternoon sports, Friends, or Everybody Loves Raymond?"
Gore wasn't my choice, and had I been selecting the party nominee Kerry probably wouldn't have been my choice either. Both are vastly more competent than the current usurpur, however, but more importantly than that, we need a return to constitutional law in this country.
That means an end to midnight raids on people's homes, an end to detention without due process, an end to dismissing and violating the Geneva conventions, an end to operating concentration camps of any kind, including Guantanamo, even if it is aimed at scum like
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
The sad reality is that those who do live paycheck to paycheck (the poor), are hardest hit by this snafu.
The banks position is "if you're hurt, let us know by bringing in proof."
How about the RBC chair bend over so I can shove my foot up his arse and tickle his tonsils with my toes - "Does that hurt Mr. Guy Saint-Pierre? Cause that's how most of your customers feel right now..."
RBC should stand for Rude Bank C**ts - yes, it is the C word Virginia.
Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
Somebody quoted you over on the Yahoo SCOX board a little while ago. Way to go!
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
When did Terry and Deaner get jobs at RBC?
One or two days of delaying people their money results in more interest that the bank makes because it is holding onto the money (float time). So the bank might show a profit.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
One thing I've never understood about bank computers, why is it they don't do transactions outside banking hours when it involves putting money INTO your account?
Sure I can make a deposit at an ATM and have it instantly accessable, but what I am talking about is between bank transfers and such, for some reason these seem to take place only on weekdays.
Is there really some peon sitting in front of a terminal approving every transaction?
What peeves me is when I have something being transferred from say my merchant account, it can take 5 business days to get to my account, I mean these are computers we're talking about here and that type of delay really makes no sense when we live in a world where instant transactions are available.
I've seen stuff start transfer on a Wednesday and take until the following Tuesday to show in the account, that is just sad.
I'm not kidding there's a huge line up out the door because everyone and their dog is trying to get moola for the weekend!!! Gawd I'm glad I don't bank with them!
...I am really pissed off.
I get paid weekly on every Thursday, and I expected my account to have my pay deposited by payroll. I go to the doctor and had to pay for a non-essential medical examination, and I found out I had insufficient funds. Hence, I ended up using my Visa card to pay for the examination.
I would be a bit happier if RBC was willing to kill some of my service fees this month, but seeing their customer service track record gets a bit shoddy every other year, I doubt that'll happen.
WOW!!!! Very good analysis of the situation.
Good god, you're making $30k at 20, and looking for sympathy?
1- Get rid of the car. Move closer to work if necessary, or find work closer to home.
2- Tell your leech of a GF to pay her share of the rent or move the hell out of your appartment and your life.
30k is a fair chunk of money. I can live very comfortably on half that while still making student loan payments. Of course, I have roommates and no car, but can still afford to eat out several times a week.
If I were making more money, I'd be saving it for a downpayment on a house, not on car, insurance and girls. The way you're going, you'll always be poor.
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
This would have been more fun if they let them merge, I bet.
Only someone on slashdot would wonder WHAT TO DO with the SO.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Lose the GF, view free porn sites. Lose the cable, again.. porn sites, or borrow satellite TV. Re-negotiate a cheaper rent by letting cockroaches or mice loose in the apartment and complaining, then re-collecting them after your landlord has left, or find a cheaper place. Learn to cook, you'll save a lot of money compaired to going out to eat, and you'll live better. Learn to steal. Remeber, everything is cheap if you steal it. Sell things. Lots of things. Other people's things. Mr. Noodle sandwiches are tasty and cheap. Gas is only expensive if you buy it during the daytime, with plates on your car. Drive less, walk/ride bike more. Mooch rides as much as possible. Eat at parent's house, friends houseses, relatives houses and strangers houses... Often. Don't keep pets. If you must keep pets, get really big pets that you can charge admission to see. Like Polar Bears.. Most appartments have a no dog/cat clause.. But they always forget the polar bears. And if the landlord says anything about it, introduce him to your big, white, deadly friend. This will save on rent for a while too. Oh, and wear sunscreen.
I'm pretty sure I would have started by calling the FBI from day one. I hope you didn't sign anything releasing these people from damages.
They probably owe you interest for the days they held your money without consent. You might could even stick them with felony fraud charges even if they "straightened out" your situation.
They stole your money, and gave it back when you brought it to their attention. How would they have treated you if the roles were reversed?
I wonder what the main Operating System is that RBC depends on?
Ruby on Rails Screencast
I'm not complaining, I made a $500 deposit to my account and it showed up twice. I guess I'll wait a week or two and see if they notice :)
Hmmm ING Direct is looking better every day...
Good programmers drink beer to relieve job stress.
Great programmers drink hard liquor and work best hungover.
>If you can learn discipline -- where "savings"
>means "that stack of money that keeps growing and
>that I will never touch unless my child is dying"
That's a good strategy and everything, but I learned that it would be better to go ahead and let that savings account go to about zero, if I can use it to get completely out of debt.
If I had a "child is dying" incident, I'm sure it will mean going into debt anyway, and it can't hurt to have zero debt in a situation like that.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
A few years ago, during a Memorial Day weekend, I needed cash so I went down to my local bank's ATM - it didn't work. I went to another bank, willing to pay the service charges, I got some cryptic error message. Come to find out, at 4:00 pm on the Friday before the weekend, my bank rolled a a new verstion of the ATM software to both the ATM's and the host! I offered my services as a
computer consultant to help them plan future upgrades.
This has been widely mis-reported. RBC doesn't make such investments themselves, they act as the broker on behalf of clients, exactly the same as any other brokerage. In the case in question, the client chose to remain anonymous, and the shares in question were purchased by RBC, and then held 'in street name' for assignment to an internal client account. The actual details of who the account holder is, are protected by confidentiality laws, and would only become public information if the client requested certificates of shares issued in thier own name, rather than held by the brokerage in street name on thier behalf. the courts can also order such disclosures, but will only do so if there is a real requirement for said disclosure. In this case, there is no requirement for disclosure.
RBC has recieved a lot of negative exposure in the linux community simply because they have respected privacy laws. They acted as the broker in the transaction, and held the shares on behalf of a client. I'd commend the bank, in the face of a lot of pressure, never once have they released or leaked to the public the name of the client they are acting on behalf of. This is as it should be.
The real question in my mind, what individual/corporation outsourced this transaction to Canada, to take advantage of privacy laws that allowed them to do the entire deal anonymously, with the bank acting as the publicly visible broker of record?
They are establishing quite a reputation for cluelessness. Let's hope they lose all their customers because of the latest screwup, and go out of business.
YOU DIPSHIT UNIVERSALLY STUPID ASSHOLE!!!!! I have never in my entire life heard any of my fellow Canadians say EH at the end of every sentence. I personally hate beer and wish it would go the same place as you HELL.
Good programmers drink beer to relieve job stress.
Great programmers drink hard liquor and work best hungover.
Live below your means. Put off that new car or computer for another year or two. Eat out 1 fewer times per week. Don't pay so much for your porn! Simple things like that can easily add up to one hundred bucks per month with very little pain.
Time is on your side. Start saving now. Be patient. It will grow very slowly at first. But the earlier you start, the earlier your savings will start growing rapidly.
Peter
Downsize DC Today!
No really. Is it a coincidence that one of the only banks in Canada to switch from IBM OS/2 to Windows is the one that was hit?
TD Waterhouse is still on OS/2. As is Scotiabank, Bank of Montreal, and I believe CIBC.
Also, a while back, their ATM's were the only ones affected by the worms. You guessed it, also switched to NT-based ATM machines.
This reminds me of the time I tried to pay for my tuition with my MBNA Mastercard. I had payed it off 3 days earlier using Scotia Bank's online system, which is supposed to only take 48 hours to process.
When I went to pay, the charge was denied, so I called the complaint line. The guy said that while the electronic payment went through yesterday, and interest would be calculated based on that, they couldn't clear my account until acual money was tranfered from Scotia Bank. This blew me away! I've been in many situations where the bank isn't sure the check I'm depositing is good, but in this case, MBNA was essentially saying that they weren't sure Scotia Bank was good for it.
The customer support guy manually cleared it for me, in the end, but I still think its funny that there really is some armored car somewhere driving between Scotia and MBNA when I make payments on my card.
Get rid of your day to day expenses such as cable and car if you can go without it. Also your gf should save you money not cost you money. Mine pays half of everything because she lives with me. If yours costs you money I'd worry sick.
To the extent that you feel it safe and/or appropriate to discuss the issue, there's a bigger question: What options, if any, are open for consideration (or are being quietly taken) at the central bank level to ensure continued liquidity and a happy clearing system?
I live 0.5 miles from work. I ride my bike to work. My G/F lives in a city 60 miles from home. Thats a 120 Mile round trip 8 times a month. Thats $10 each time. Thats $80 in gas because of her. She doesnt share rent, she doesnt live with me. I pay for everything because I'm the "rich computer guy" and shes the "poor college girl". I'm trying to save for a downpayment but I'm not ready to settle down anywhere yet as I dont know where my life might lead. I think I'm figuring out where the financial problems are and they all lead one direction. Thanks for the advice.
I'm worried sick. I'm on the /. therapy line and so far the advice has been great. I need to loose the g/f (who doesnt live with me, doesnt help financially in any way) and stick it out living cheap for a while. Thanks for the advice.
Whats that supposed to mean?
So much for offshore Indian software development...
Where is the inane copyright disclaimer on your /. posts? Oh, I forgot, sigs are limited to 120 characters...
from the CANADA.COM article:
"Royal Bank customers should visit their bank branches in person if they detect problems because of the processing delay or contact the bank's 24-hour number."
'24-hour' is how long you'll be on hold..?
If I look at the balance on the RBC ATM screen it is higher than my updated bankbook by the amount of one of my latest withdrawls....which was recorded in my bankbook. If i try to update my bankbook which has the lower amount, the machine tells me that it is up to date (with the lower amount). What should i believe? The bank's ATM should be right but something is still out of whack as the bank usually updates info immediately on their ATMs.....DAMN I SHOUD HAVE MADE A LARGER WITHDRAWL or something!!! :=)
They are now saying that things will be back in order by the weekend.
I'm Canadian and I work in RBC IT and your post was hilarious. Bob and Doug? Yeah!!!
To my pissed off Canuck bro, that was funny, just laugh. SCTV is classic.
Our banks are awesome. It could have happened to anyone. In fact our banks are so great that in 1930 when the stock market crashed and the world was sent into the depression only one candian bank went out of business. 100's of American banks went under. The reason that only one Canadian bank went under was because of bank chains (something American banks have only reasently caught on to). The Canadian dollar has and will be again higher then the US. The fact is that we have a better economy and we will continue to if we elect Martin. So vote liberal on the 28th and we will see who has the big scary dollar.
Geek Code Version 3.0 GSS d? s++
June 2, 2004 as still outstanding as of 11:23pm June 4, 2004.
They are trying to balance....
ING Direct - my experience is that they are a bunch of pompous idiots. Will never deal with them.
Possibly the most funny post ever. I've reposted it in my MySpace blog. (I've provided a link to the original, of course. Credit where credit is due.) It isn't as good as being modded up, of course, but it's something... I wish you hadn't posted anonymously. Then I could make you my friend.
Hey buddy, lighten up, eh?
I'm the great great grand-poster and I wasnt sure if it was insightful or funny. Actually, come to think of it, I think i might take his advice. Whats your blog url?
putting money into savings instead of spending it on basic necessities supports the capitalist social-ecconomic practice that makes you unfree in the first place.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
We live in a land of regulated banks. I do note, however, that your version of the story is not one I've seen anywhere else. Certainly RBC is (a) a gang of idiots, and (b) like any other bank, they act as a VC, and make investments for themselves. So what's your basis for the claim that they were acting as a broker in this case? (Which they also do, of course.)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
They did put a quarter of a buck on the 25 cent piece.
The last paragraph is what prompted my response and due to its content it doesn't sound like its 'just bills' to me. It sounds like you have issues not buying the latest and greatest toy if you have cash in the bank.
It may have only been an example, but it appeared that you were discussing your habits, in context.. however if it is only about bills and you are living beyond your means, the same basic statement I made applies anyway.
---- Booth was a patriot ----