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I often wonder how they imagine themselves squaring accepting money from lobbyists, etc with God. "it was a lot of money" seems like a terrible excuse.

Then Christians are pretty fucked.

1 Peter 2:13.

Yes, Jesus DID say to pay your taxes like a good little prole.

But the Bible says a lot of other stuff too, like to obey any and all forms of government and authority.

1 Peter 2:13.

nice sig :)

anyway, i am of the theory that jesus was a powerful magic user of some sort who eventually managed to become a lich, coming back from the dead. we already know he cursed trees and raised zombies :)

http://russellsteapot.com/images/knowyourbible/ful l/Matthew27_50-52.jpg

The idea that these problems are due to people like me is laughable. The real problem is people like you that are too high and mighty to actually help anyone that isn't part of their church. Do you go out and give food to junkies? Do you help run programs to get them over their addictions? Do you do anything other than try to force kids to read the bible in school and badmouth the government? The bible even says that you should obey all secular authority and stay out of politics, you hypocrite.

And you still haven't addressed the glaring contradiction between the bible's claims of cures for faithful and the complete absence of most types of miracle cures, other than those that would have happened anyway regardless of faith.

And this -- "The Bible has advice on finances, planting, homebuilding, how to raise children, etc" -- this is just as much an argument in favour of Buddhism or Confucianism as it an argument in favour of Christianity. MOST of the old religions were designed to get people to do things that just happen to useful, particularly in the environments in which those people lived. It's the presence of advice that ISN'T usefull -- like stoning rape victims and murdering your children if they misbehave -- that proves the bible is as stupid as any other ancient mythology. Circumcision, for example, which the bible ORDERS people to do, is great for maintaining personal hygiene if you happen to live in an arid environment. But if you live in a land like ours, where water and soap are cheap and abundant, circumcision becomes an extremely stupid idea that bears a slight risk of causing death and makes life less enjoyable for men.

Besides, you DON'T live by the bible. You pick and choose which things to obey, just like every hypocrite.

Do you ...

• Burn the daughters of priests to death if they sin? I doubt it...
• Prevent women from teaching? You've probably had female teachers, and I doubt you're out campaigning for the PTA to bar female teachers. You're breaking God's law by not doing so.
• If your (hypothetical( daughter were raped, would you press charges? The bible COMMANDS you to accept money from him and force him to marry her -- regardless of what she thinks of this. You fucking tool -- you actually obey this retarded book?
• You'd better be willing to murder your son if he doesn't obey you. Just in case you ever DO reproduce, I'm going to wish you luck in prison.
• This isn't actually advice, but I think it's important to note that your god is a god of war and death. He is pretty sure that you'll have to kill your family. You ... ARE willing to kill your family, right?

And you still haven't addressed the glaring contradiction between the bible's claims of cures for faithful and the complete absence of most types of miracle cures, other than those that would have happened anyway regardless of faith.

And this -- "The Bible has advice on finances, planting, homebuilding, how to raise children, etc" -- this is just as much an argument in favour of Buddhism or Confucianism as it an argument in favour of Christianity. MOST of the old religions were designed to get people to do things that just happen to useful, particularly in the environments in which those people lived. It's the presence of advice that ISN'T usefull -- like stoning rape victims and murdering your children if they misbehave -- that proves the bible is as stupid as any other ancient mythology. Circumcision, for example, which the bible ORDERS people to do, is great for maintaining personal hygiene if you happen to live in an arid environment. But if you live in a land like ours, where water and soap are cheap and abundant, circumcision becomes an extremely stupid idea that bears a slight risk of causing death and makes life less enjoyable for men.

Besides, you DON'T live by the bible. You pick and choose which things to obey, just like every hypocrite.

Do you ...

• Burn the daughters of priests to death if they sin? I doubt it...
• Prevent women from teaching? You've probably had female teachers, and I doubt you're out campaigning for the PTA to bar female teachers. You're breaking God's law by not doing so.
• If your (hypothetical( daughter were raped, would you press charges? The bible COMMANDS you to accept money from him and force him to marry her -- regardless of what she thinks of this. You fucking tool -- you actually obey this retarded book?
• You'd better be willing to murder your son if he doesn't obey you. Just in case you ever DO reproduce, I'm going to wish you luck in prison.
• This isn't actually advice, but I think it's important to note that your god is a god of war and death. He is pretty sure that you'll have to kill your family. You ... ARE willing to kill your family, right?

And you still haven't addressed the glaring contradiction between the bible's claims of cures for faithful and the complete absence of most types of miracle cures, other than those that would have happened anyway regardless of faith.

And this -- "The Bible has advice on finances, planting, homebuilding, how to raise children, etc" -- this is just as much an argument in favour of Buddhism or Confucianism as it an argument in favour of Christianity. MOST of the old religions were designed to get people to do things that just happen to useful, particularly in the environments in which those people lived. It's the presence of advice that ISN'T usefull -- like stoning rape victims and murdering your children if they misbehave -- that proves the bible is as stupid as any other ancient mythology. Circumcision, for example, which the bible ORDERS people to do, is great for maintaining personal hygiene if you happen to live in an arid environment. But if you live in a land like ours, where water and soap are cheap and abundant, circumcision becomes an extremely stupid idea that bears a slight risk of causing death and makes life less enjoyable for men.

Besides, you DON'T live by the bible. You pick and choose which things to obey, just like every hypocrite.

Do you ...

• Burn the daughters of priests to death if they sin? I doubt it...
• Prevent women from teaching? You've probably had female teachers, and I doubt you're out campaigning for the PTA to bar female teachers. You're breaking God's law by not doing so.
• If your (hypothetical( daughter were raped, would you press charges? The bible COMMANDS you to accept money from him and force him to marry her -- regardless of what she thinks of this. You fucking tool -- you actually obey this retarded book?
• You'd better be willing to murder your son if he doesn't obey you. Just in case you ever DO reproduce, I'm going to wish you luck in prison.
• This isn't actually advice, but I think it's important to note that your god is a god of war and death. He is pretty sure that you'll have to kill your family. You ... ARE willing to kill your family, right?

And you still haven't addressed the glaring contradiction between the bible's claims of cures for faithful and the complete absence of most types of miracle cures, other than those that would have happened anyway regardless of faith.

And this -- "The Bible has advice on finances, planting, homebuilding, how to raise children, etc" -- this is just as much an argument in favour of Buddhism or Confucianism as it an argument in favour of Christianity. MOST of the old religions were designed to get people to do things that just happen to useful, particularly in the environments in which those people lived. It's the presence of advice that ISN'T usefull -- like stoning rape victims and murdering your children if they misbehave -- that proves the bible is as stupid as any other ancient mythology. Circumcision, for example, which the bible ORDERS people to do, is great for maintaining personal hygiene if you happen to live in an arid environment. But if you live in a land like ours, where water and soap are cheap and abundant, circumcision becomes an extremely stupid idea that bears a slight risk of causing death and makes life less enjoyable for men.

Besides, you DON'T live by the bible. You pick and choose which things to obey, just like every hypocrite.

Do you ...

• Burn the daughters of priests to death if they sin? I doubt it...
• Prevent women from teaching? You've probably had female teachers, and I doubt you're out campaigning for the PTA to bar female teachers. You're breaking God's law by not doing so.
• If your (hypothetical( daughter were raped, would you press charges? The bible COMMANDS you to accept money from him and force him to marry her -- regardless of what she thinks of this. You fucking tool -- you actually obey this retarded book?
• You'd better be willing to murder your son if he doesn't obey you. Just in case you ever DO reproduce, I'm going to wish you luck in prison.
• This isn't actually advice, but I think it's important to note that your god is a god of war and death. He is pretty sure that you'll have to kill your family. You ... ARE willing to kill your family, right?

And you still haven't addressed the glaring contradiction between the bible's claims of cures for faithful and the complete absence of most types of miracle cures, other than those that would have happened anyway regardless of faith.

And this -- "The Bible has advice on finances, planting, homebuilding, how to raise children, etc" -- this is just as much an argument in favour of Buddhism or Confucianism as it an argument in favour of Christianity. MOST of the old religions were designed to get people to do things that just happen to useful, particularly in the environments in which those people lived. It's the presence of advice that ISN'T usefull -- like stoning rape victims and murdering your children if they misbehave -- that proves the bible is as stupid as any other ancient mythology. Circumcision, for example, which the bible ORDERS people to do, is great for maintaining personal hygiene if you happen to live in an arid environment. But if you live in a land like ours, where water and soap are cheap and abundant, circumcision becomes an extremely stupid idea that bears a slight risk of causing death and makes life less enjoyable for men.

Besides, you DON'T live by the bible. You pick and choose which things to obey, just like every hypocrite.

Do you ...

• Burn the daughters of priests to death if they sin? I doubt it...
• Prevent women from teaching? You've probably had female teachers, and I doubt you're out campaigning for the PTA to bar female teachers. You're breaking God's law by not doing so.
• If your (hypothetical( daughter were raped, would you press charges? The bible COMMANDS you to accept money from him and force him to marry her -- regardless of what she thinks of this. You fucking tool -- you actually obey this retarded book?
• You'd better be willing to murder your son if he doesn't obey you. Just in case you ever DO reproduce, I'm going to wish you luck in prison.
• This isn't actually advice, but I think it's important to note that your god is a god of war and death. He is pretty sure that you'll have to kill your family. You ... ARE willing to kill your family, right?

Anyway, this has basically become quite dull. Like most hypocrites, you can't even consider the possibility that you may be wrong. Like most irrational people, you never under any circumstances question your assumptions. Like most self-righteous people, you assume that anyone who doesn't believe as you do must be evil and wrong. If you can't consider the possibility that you are mistaken, if you can't consider what an alternate viewpoint would be like, why bother having discussions at all? I walked your path for 24 years with all the diligence and faithfullness that I could, until doubt and real world evidence showed me that I was wrong. Seeing christians, ministers and reverends even, advocating murder and execution and the abandonment of homeless to their ultimate deaths ... how could I possibly think that religion had any positive effect on their behaviour whatsoever? Meanwhile, the people that were fighting for Human rights, opposing war, and encouraging love and acceptance of all people were mostly atheists. The people who tried the hardest to help me were not people of faith. If want to be taken seriously, try walking my path. Try to consider life from the eyes of the faithless -- for real I mean, not your caricature of them. Try to actually empathize with them and understand why they feel the way they do. Try questioning your assumptions and circular reasoning. See if doubting God's existence makes you suddenly feel open to commiting rape and murder. I'll wager that you'll find that you retain your disinclination towards harming others, regardless of whether you believe in invisible judges.

Also, an important note: the bible doesn't say anything about heaven or hell. It says that when you die, you're dead. God may raise some people on judgement day, but the rest just stay dead. That's why the bible says that Christ saves you from death, not hell. That's why Jews don't drone on and on about hell and demons and Satan being out to get you. Hell is mostly something that later Christians dreamed up to scare people into converting. It isn't much better than conversion by the sword, if you think about it.

My morality does pre-exist me and will exist when I'm gone -- it's encoded into our genetics. Altruism is a natural consequence of being a social species, and evolutionary psychology has made very strong arguments about that. So yes, morality can be pre-existing, fairly universal and consistent, and I can simply KNOW it. That's the hallmark of instinct, not magical flying men that smite babies for no reason.

Oh, and did you read the "Know Your Bible" page? Good stuff there, good stuff. I suppose you're off to Iraq now to murder some children of Babylon? That is what is demanded of you, after all. Not that you follow a bible -- the bible commands you (a woman I presume based your ID) not to teach (1 Timothy 2:11). Yet here you are, violating the word of god and trying to teach me about the nature of faith. For shame, sinner.

Oh, sarcasm man, sarcasm. Didn't the mention of how scientists are evil tip you off? No one who uses a computer or an internet gets to say that without their tongue inserted well into their cheek. Hey, the bible quote about how great it is to murder babies ought to be enough on its own. I'd make it more obvious, but I have yet to come up with a good ascii-art rendition of the suckerfish logo.