Slashdot Mirror
The Dolphin With Leftover Legs
ectotherm writes "Japanese scientists have captured a dolphin with vestigial legs. Evidence, it would seem, of a land-dwelling past and observable evolution." From the article: "Fishermen captured the four-finned dolphin alive off the coast of Wakayama prefecture (state) in western Japan on Oct. 28, and alerted the nearby Taiji Whaling Museum, according to museum director Katsuki Hayashi. Fossil remains show dolphins and whales were four-footed land animals about 50 million years ago and share the same common ancestor as hippos and deer. Scientists believe they later transitioned to an aquatic lifestyle and their hind limbs disappeared. Whale and dolphin fetuses also show signs of hind protrusions but these generally disappear before birth."
On this article. You can't. You can be funny or informative. Let the challenge begin NOW...
In thier report, the finding was as exciting as finding a chicken with four drumsticks!
The dolphins are growing new limbs they'll need to construct their spaceships to get off the earth.
I need to change that Darwin fish with legs thing on my automobile to a dolphin with legs. Nobody can be offended by that now, right?
The dolphins need hind legs to roundhouse the sharks with frickin' lasers on their heads.
DOLPHINSE.CX!!!!
So can we look forward to Super Dolphin fighting underwater crime? Or is it a member of the Brother of Evil Mutant Dolphins, led by the shape-shifting Fishtique?
Under the sea
Darling it's better
Down where it's wetter
Take it from me!
Fishermen captured the four-finned dolphin alive off the coast of Wakayama prefecture (state) in western Japan on Oct. 28, and alerted the nearby Taiji Whaling Museum, according to museum director Katsuki Hayashi.
Anyone considered that dolphins are growing hind limbs so they can go ashore to capture a few Japanese to take back to their Hominid Museum?
The article exclaims that it's dead. I suppose they would have wanted it that way for their labs. Then on the other hand, if we kill all of the dolphins we shouldn't run out of fish by 2048?
I read the article, and those aren't legs, they're fins.
I will only believe that a dolphin has legs when it walks up to me and shakes my hand.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
...Dolphins with opposable thumbs? wait...erm, we're screwed!
- "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
Yet another piece of evidence that dolphins are indeed smarter than us. They've already moved to the oceans living in peace and harmony while we still stumble around on land bashing each other's skulls in. I for one...
.... what did they taste like?
God put those legs on that dolphin 10 minutes before they found it, just to test our faith! Do not be swayed!
This article seems very weak - evidence that an ancestral dolphin had four fins does not necessarily mean that a dolphin ancestor lived on land, although I thought that enough evidence already existed. Other than that, what exactly is new here? We already know that dolphin and whale fetuses have fins that disappear before birth, so the gene must be there already.
The fact that a mutation present in one member of the dolphin population prevents the hind fins disappearing should hardly be newsworthy.
Can't wait for the Christians' reply to this one...
So there you go, you're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish squirrel. Congratulations.
Picture shown Evil Dolphine Overlord's hostility to humanity existed. Look at FILEMAN GATEWAY or pya!
...the dolphin said, "Thanks for all the fish!" and then disappeared.
It should read: Scientists Capture Inbred Dolphin
So there you go smartass, insightful and funny.
I really like the idea of dolphins growing new legs and coming ashore. What if they're really funny, or maybe they're really bad drunks? Now you won't be able to go into the mosh pit, 'cause some 800 pound drunk dolphin is there and he's tearing up the place.
..........FULL STOP.
...they killed and ate it.
... the Japanese killed the rare ocean dwelling animal in order to sell four flipper dolphin medicine and magical flipper medallions to the rich.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Taiji, Japan, is the site of the annual ritual dolphin massacre in which fishermen drive pods of dolphins into shallow coves and stab them with spears. You should see it. It is quite a sight. The sea water turns red with blood, and the air is filled with the extraordinary sounds of screaming dolphins (they literally seem to scream).
Scroogle
that would be de-feeting the porpoise
Don't you get it? They're not vestigial legs! They're re-evolved legs! The dolphins are clearly evolving BACK INTO LAND ANIMALS to reclaim the land they once ruled.
Cress, cress, lovely lovely cress
What makes scientists so sure that this is a malformation, a "remain from the past" as he put it, instead of a genetical change in dolphins in general, which could be evolution? TFA says that "Whale and dolphin fetuses also show signs of hind protrusions but these generally disappear before birth", couldn't this mean that the species have been changing for years and years, and this specimen is the first to show more developed fins/legs? I just want to know how they differentiate something that's genetically deformed (meaning it affects only the specimen, and not the species) to something that's evolving.
they've found out that the Dolphin's last words were (or will be) So long, and thanks for the fish!
I read about vestigial limbs on aquatic mammals in the Wiki about a month ago - where a throwback displays fingers/toes rather than properly formed flippers.
:-/
From what's written there, this is well understood and well recognized.
I've just had a go at finding the article again, but you know what it's like in the wiki, if you can't remember the article title, you're going to have trouble finding it again
I, for one, welcome our 4 legged dolphin overlords.
And not one single mention of intelligent design?
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
I'm not one, but that is neither here nor there. Believing in evolution is not mutually exclusive with believing that Christ died for your sins. Most Christians do beleive in evolution, just as they believe in an old Earth, etc. Granted, the subset of Christians who are Creationists do refer to themselves as Christian, trying to claim the label for themselves, so I know it isn't easy, but don't go insulting everyone over a few (million) oddities. That's like insulting conservatives by saying they all support the Iraqi occupation and torture.
...and Dolphin's an acquired taste.
Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
Well, technically ID doesn't preclude common descent or vestigial organs (or limbs). ID doesn't preclude much, because it doesn't assert much, other than pointing at something or other and saying "evolution doesn't explain that." Behe himself believes in common descent, though not many of the ID advocates, many (most?) of whom are closet Creationsists, think about that much. The article would rankle Creationists, but they're already rankled by just about everything since Copernicus, so I don't see the big deal.
It's Fin-Licking good!!!!
At least The Simpsons can still boast some scientific merit:
Night of the Dolphin
Summation 2
How exactly do japanese whale catchers qualify as scientists?
So now they are excited because they can see evolution happening? They should return it to the sea. The evolutionary chain will end if they put it into captivity!
ugh...
I've skimmed the comments here and the article, but AFAIC the possibility of it being something other than evolution doesn't seem to have been considered.
Yeah, the Designer is still at work, drafting and experimenting with critters. Question is only if it is an intelligent act or pure randomness and selection of the best draft.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
The Catholic Church has made it official that the age of the universe (15 billion years or so(,the fossil record are all valid. Evolution is understood to be valid.
Go check wikipedia if ya doubt me.
..........FULL STOP.
Eh, I wouldn't read too much into this without more data...
I used to live near a large chemical plant in TN. People often found mutant frogs in the river nearby -- two heads, an extra limb, etc. I'm pretty sure that wasn't evolution in action -- unless of course the poor thing just couldn't decide which way to go to get *out* of there.
Curse you plastic mold maker!
Since we have a pretty clear fossil evidence that mammals evolved on land and that the earliest mammals had legs, we can conclude the ancestors of dolphins and whales had legs. Physical evidence has been shown in rear vestigal legs, found in various stages of development (or whatever the antonymn of development is) in the fossil record of ancient whales.
Catholics support evolution, old Earth, etc.
Don't let a few crazy loud mouthed Creationalists give you the impression that this is everyones viewpoint.
... because the Catholic church is oh so accurate on everything else it says.
An endorsement by the catholic church of anything I agree with encourages me to reconsider my position.
... the Japanese killed the rare ocean dwelling animal in order to sell four flipper dolphin medicine and magical flipper medallions to the rich.
I do believe you're confusing the chinese with the japanese.
The Japanese made a mechanical exoskeleton for the dolphin and equipped it with a giant gun. That'll teach Godzilla not to mess with France.
The line in the summary, "Whale and dolphin fetuses also show signs of hind protrusions but these generally disappear before birth.", isn't present in the article.
...]
Also from the article:
[...Japanese researchers said Sunday that a bottlenose dolphin captured last month has an extra set of fins that could be the remains of back legs, a discovery that may provide further evidence that ocean-dwelling mammals once lived on land.
How exactly could this be evidence of back legs? The article is pretty light on details. It seems more likely that an extra set of fins would be moving dolphin evolution forward. e.g., having a extra set of fins may allow the dolphin to swim faster, navigate better, etc. The article doesn't mention if the dolphin can use (move) the fins.
If you get an error, type "OVERRIDE" or "SECURITY OVERRIDE" and then try the optimize command again.
This is *one* 4-finned dolphin? Why isn't this just one of those random genetic mutations everyone is always talking about? Why does it have to be the start/end of an evolutionary path? The interesting question is, did this dolphin pro-create, and if so, did its offspring have 4 fins?
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Close shot of the four legged dolphin can be seen here.
Some scientists say there may be no fish left in the oceans by 2050, and we all know that dolphins descend from a land species. We also know that dolphins are smart. I wouldn't be surprised if dolphins decided to come back on land to avoid an ocean without food (fish)!
Is it just me or did Fox News sensor the leg by blurring it out?????
That isn't the water..
OK, first of all, they didn't find legs. They found fins. The dolphin has two extra seemingly useless fins toward it's rear, in the same approximate location it would have legs when it walked on land.
So, freak mutation causing bringing up of ancient traits encoded in dolphin DNA? Or maybe just freak mutation in general?
I mean, we've all seen the pictures of people born without legs and arms. Are you trying to tell me this is a bringing up of DNA from when we were "ball mammals", who rolled around the earth?!?!
Sometimes a mutation (or defect, whatever) is just a mutation.
And yes, I do believe 100% in evolution (to me it's not something to believe in,it's fact, you can observe it happen in our lifetime in insects). But I don't think finding one example of a mutation can prove or disprove anything about dolphin ancestory.
On the right between the bottom fin and the diver there is a grey spot that looks like it has been deliberately blurred. Are they hiding the fricken laser they just removed from its head? Maybe they've figured out that a dolphin + extra fins + laser is a more formidable weapon than a shark + laser?
Or maybe it's just that i'm tired and it's a really low res picture.
like a fish needs a bicycle.
This has been irrefutably proven, back to basic biology with you!
By the way, dolphins already swim pretty good
When the country falls into chaos, politicians talk about 'patriotism'. Lao-Tzu
Now all they need is lasers.
I enjoyed that pun, thanks :)
omg.. here comes the revoliution..
In case any creationist tries to pull "it is just a fin" consider a Humpback whale with vestial legs complete with leg bones. Link has photograph of the leg bones. Another link (PDF) - Mike Hopkins
How is the world do fossils prove evolution? Where are the intermediate forms? What?! What do you mean there aren't any? Then stop saying the fossil record "proves" evolution because it doesn't. It proves there were dinosaurs. It doesn't prove evolution at all.
This is the first time i ever talk in an offensive manner and probably be the last, (i hope) and its because of this idiotism :
Firstly, many dolphin species aren't even threatened, much less endangered, and so therefore don't need protection
This sentence implies that if some species do not need protection, it is o.k. to drive them in HERDS to a shallow cove and STAB THEM TO DEATH WITH SPEARS.
Secondly, apparently because you are stupid, or you are disfunctional to the teeth, you have chosen to disregard the iq factor of either squids, or dolphins.
Which concludes to the fact that killing dolphins would be not much different from killing stupid people, newborn babies, and any tribe around the world that is not par with modern civilization's iq standard.
'Massacres' being local does not change a single bit of a shit. Massacre, is massacre. I guess because of stupidity again you chose to put it in quotes. I would like to warn you that putting quotes around a word does not immediately disqualify the event that its describing to be non-equivalent of that word.
If you are stupid as in the above analysis, that is acceptable and forgivable.
Whereas if you are not, and you are sharing the 'nationality' quirk that is abundant in japanese and chinese cultures that causes you to do ANYTHING to be different from each other in your nations - eat anything you come accross, paint your hair in hues of pink and turqouise and all - as ALL of you seem to be similar to each other, and also have strongly and suffocatingly traditional societies that they cause you to do ANY SHIT to be different. and that is VERY bad if that is so, because this is unforgivable.
Also your approach, if you are not stupid of course, explains the fact that with what kind of logic japanese was able to kill around 10 million chinese during 1930-1945 with biological weapons in forms of 'flus', and why the world is STILL suffering from new 'flu' types coming out of china due to the abhorrent amount of germs and viruses your genocide with those bi-weapons caused to breed there over time.
Read radical news here
Four Finned Dolphin
[visitor] Knock Knock...
[you] Who's there?
[visitor] Pizza Delivery
[you] I didn't order any pizza.
[visitor] umm....Avon
[you--while opening the door]. I didn't order any....AHHHAAGG
What about the billions of deaths you cause everyday when you wash your hands? Does it not matter because they might have harmed you? Or because they are too small to be cute and identifiable as "life"?
Let's take 1 and 2. You want an "intermediate form"? OK, 1.5. What's that? You want two "intermediate forms" now?
Given we have one example of a mutant dolphin:
It might be that bacteria don't scream and aren't particularly intelligent. Also that we don't kill bacteria for the fun of killing them with chemicals, more because they might harm us.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
"...evidence that an ancestral dolphin had four fins does not necessarily mean that a dolphin ancestor lived on land..."
If the evidence stopped there, agreed. But, the evidence proceeds backwards in time to animals which lived on land and in water, and further to land-based ones.
"The fact that a mutation present in one member of the dolphin population prevents the hind fins disappearing should hardly be newsworthy."
If you understood mutation, it would be newsworthy.
Do i REALLY need to elaborate WHY that aint so ?
Read radical news here
Until people pushed them back into the ocean! So this can't be a step of evolution forward, it has to be something from the past!
I'd be suspicious of the timing; this dolphin just happens to show up less than a week before the election? Those Democrats will stop at nothing to get in office. Fear your God this Tuesday and vote Republican.
Well, it looks like Barry is finally getting his way.C ouncil.jpg#185
http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF195-The_Pacific_
That's ludicrously quixotic.
To imply that someone is a hypocrite because they are against mindlessly killing intelligent beings capable of feeling pain and suffering but would also wash their hands of harmful bacteria based on the platform that 'all life is sacred' is ridiculous.
While I agree that too much stock is put in 'cute' animals by anti-cruelty organisations, the absolutist 'kill all or nothing' stance you propose is illogical, unhelpful and only serves to distract from the real acts of barbarism, such as the one discussed here.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Or was Mummy dolphin swimming just a bit too close to a nuclear power plant's waste pipe?
Does anyone else find it ironic that *Fox* is running this story and claiming that this dolphin supports evolution?
With a release cycle this long, it's a wonder god maintains any market-share whatsoever...
I guess this could be similar to the little boys from cuba who were born with hair all over their bodies. Randomly born with a freak trait of our ancient neanderthal ancestors.
That is close to what is happening. Dolphins being the 1st of God's creatures being humans being 2nd. God's Creatures are those that know of God. So the god fearing Dolphins are being reintelligently designed by the creature IE God into land animals because of a soon to be lack of food. This and the continuing design changes being made by God to save dolphins are proof beyond; any scientist's ability to disprove. The Dolphins will be redesigned and science will be unable to find any evidence of environmental pressure causing them to evolve. Man and Dolphin will see the 2nd coming of our lord Jesus. Repent NOW, Sinners and Disbelievers. The truth is upon you.
Of course there are - you just choose to put your head in the sand to ignore them. In fact, they are being discovered all the time... here's one just last week:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Sc
Read on, if you dare to actually learn something:
http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/Interme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional
Actually, it doesn't even prove there were dinosaurs. All we know is that we find bones in the ground. The evidence indicates that there were dinosaurs. "Proof" in science is a misnomer.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993
It's really about evidence:
http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_devore_th
Note that I carefully avoided talk.origin's to keep you from claiming that that everyone refers you to the same source. The vast majority of the scientific community is in agreement about the vast majority of the conclusions drawn from the vast evidence that has been discovered thus far: evolution is a fact.
-- PGP keyID: 0x4C95994D
The dolphins have finally had enough and want their say on Slashdot!. So they're growing legs so they can walk into the cybercafes.
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
Can't believe nobody made the connection before me... It's really Godzilla's third cousin.
In a cavern, in a canyon, Excavating for a mine, Dwelt a miner, forty-niner, And his daughter Clementine. Refrain: Oh my darling, oh my darling, Oh my darling Clementine You are lost and gone forever, Dreadful sorry, Clementine. Light she was, and like a fairy, And her shoes were number nine, Herring boxes without topses, Sandals were for Clementine. Drove she ducklings to the water Ev'ry morning just at nine, Hit her foot against a splinter, Fell into the foaming brine. Ruby lips above the water, Blowing bubbles soft and fine, But alas, I was no swimmer, Neither was my Clementine. In a churchyard near the canyon, Where the myrtle doth entwine, There grow rosies and some posies, Fertilized by Clementine. How I missed her, how I missed her, How I missed my Clementine, Til I kissed her little sister, And forgot my Clementine.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Couple of your links were broken:
List of transitional fossils
Intermediate forms
Sorry about the formatting. Clicked Submit instead of preview.
Let me try again...
In a cavern, in a canyon,
Excavating for a mine,
Dwelt a miner, forty-niner,
And his daughter Clementine.
Refrain:
Oh my darling, oh my darling,
Oh my darling Clementine
You are lost and gone forever,
Dreadful sorry, Clementine.
Light she was, and like a fairy,
And her shoes were number nine,
Herring boxes without topses,
Sandals were for Clementine.
Drove she ducklings to the water
Ev'ry morning just at nine,
Hit her foot against a splinter,
Fell into the foaming brine.
Ruby lips above the water,
Blowing bubbles soft and fine,
But alas, I was no swimmer,
Neither was my Clementine.
In a churchyard near the canyon,
Where the myrtle doth entwine,
There grow rosies and some posies,
Fertilized by Clementine.
How I missed her, how I missed her,
How I missed my Clementine,
Til I kissed her little sister,
And forgot my Clementine.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
So Long and thanks for all the fish *flies away*
By exposing supposed flaws in the evidence. Every good Creationist "knows", for example, that Mount St. Helens disproves all of thost geologic studies that calculate the age of the Earth. (Google on Creation Science St Helens for more information.)
Granted, as perhaps you can tell, I'm not the best person to explain this, but I suspect you get the idea...
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
If they were so smart they'd figure out how NOT to get massacred, isn't that Darwinism right there?
Indeed. Trailing forward slash screwed those up, as well as this one:
/ biology/bio039.htm
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993
Thanks.
Marc
-- PGP keyID: 0x4C95994D
and why the world is STILL suffering from new 'flu' types coming out of china due to the abhorrent amount of germs and viruses your genocide with those bi-weapons caused to breed there over time.
As a physician I'd just like to say one thing:
Huh?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
The first? Try reading at -1. Let's not even mention that your post is far more incoherent.
As far as herding animals to their death--that's happened throughout our history. It's a common technique used by hunter-gatherer societies that would herd animals over cliffs to their death.
And that's far more humane than the way industrial farms treat their animals today--and yet you're complaining about this?
Also, I did specify a preference for human survival in my post. Dolphins are often valued due to their intelligence compared to other animals, but humans are never measured on such a scale. Call it specism if you want, but it's a part of what's made us successful.
And I won't address your last two paragraphs because it's obvious you don't know much about Japanese history, and what lead Japan into its hyper-aggression during that period. I don't have any particular penchant for Japanese culture, but your words are just plain racist.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
This looks like a case of a developmental problem.
What normally gets suppressed during embryonic development (hind fins), didn't happen in this case.
Nothing new created here. Notice that it didn't have 6 fins.
Japan has announced that the demands of research for more limbed cetaceans will require the immediate "scientific" hunting of 5,000 delicious whales.
Have you heard of the Jain religion? Some people sweep the street in front of them so that they don't accidentally stand on an insect.
Yeah I know of Jainism, and to be honest I admire their principle regarding the equality of life. If you want to live your life by the rules that you don't harm or kill a single thing, then more power to you. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the notion that can't criticise the frenzied spearing of dolphins because you wash your hands or swat flies that buzz around your face.
;)
But even Jain nuns' immune systems destroy bacteria and viruses on a regular basis
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Unfortunately, no further research will be possible because the Japanese just couldn't resist eating the dolphin.
The First? Really? I mean, is this like the day you discovered Slashdot?
Or you just read at like +5?
Why are women so complicated? Find out how little I know here.
'huh' definitely.
Japanese have dropped down 'bombs' containing engineered 'flu' viruses (among other diseases) in china starting from 1932 or so until 1945. an estimated 10 million died if you count in the massacres done by the army.
and today, china is the breeding ground of the most formidable flus.
Coincidence ?
Read radical news here
For this non-believing devil fish, so obviously bound for hell.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28315
How do you get all the weird animal shapes and how can small mutations lead to large scale body shape changes? A significant step in evolution was the development of body building genes (for excellent book see Endless Forms Most Beautiful). What happens is you arrange the genes that build a body part in a cascade and you can edit when/where and the number of times that body part appears. For example, think of an insect body, you have a segment and on each segment you have legs. Developing embryoes have concentration gradients running all along the body (and it started with the first concentration gradient inside the giant egg, this way you can specify heads and tails side of the organism etc). In the organism you have a genetic setup that says if you are a cell at position A, turn into a leg segment only if the concentration of chemical X (in a concentration gradient along the developing body) is at level Y. There will be some little DNA binding protein that senses the concentation and only if it is at a certain level it will turn on the cascade of genes that say 'make a leg segment here'. To get a millipede with all its gross extra legs you just change the concentration dial of that protein, cause it to make a leg at a lower concentration and then you will get an addition of extra leg segments. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeobox for a description of the body building gene Hox.
The cascade of genes to make a structure such as a leg or eye is well established. There are lots of pictures of mutant flies that have been created in the lab where they turn on an eye or leg making gene in the wrong place and get a fully developed organ (i.e. check out this eye on a fruit fly leg http://www1.brcc.edu/phi102cr/week10b3.html). To get a well formed organ you just need to turn on the right gene at the right time and it will set off a cascade to build the body part. You can also turn off the cascade and stop development of the limb or organ.
So we have concentration gradients all over the developing embryo to provide a sort of grid system. There are master level genes that will switch the development of something like a fully formed leg. The master switch proteins read their location in the embryo integrating information from the multiple concentration gradients and if they are at the right place at the right time they will trigger the cascade to make the body part. To change animal forms you don't need to make everything from scratch, you just change the concentration sensitivity of the master switch proteins stretch parts of the body (think about the bones of the human hand versus the chicken wing) or make more duplicates of the same thing (i.e. adding insect body segments).
So how does this tie to the dolphin? The vestigial limbs in the developing embryo is probably when the dolphin ancester really did have four limbs, then what happened is genes in the cascade were mutated to stop the development of the limb (similar to gills in human embryos). In this dolphin the normal program of development was interupted. There might have been a mutation in one of the cascade proteins which previously had turned off hind limb development. Or there was some kind of chemical molecule the dolphin was exposed to during the development which mimicked something in the chemical gradient and confused the hind limb cells to develop into a fully formed limb.
As far as herding animals to their death--that's happened throughout our history. It's a common technique used by hunter-gatherer societies that would herd animals over cliffs to their death.
So were the aristocracy, slavery, supression of the overpowered, conquest and plunder, as well as human sacrifices, killing of female-born infants and so on.
Some thing having had happened during the course of history does not make it right or justifiable. It only provides we learn from our mistakes. Japanese, apparently, do not want to learn.
And that's far more humane than the way industrial farms treat their animals today--and yet you're complaining about this?
Im not complaining about the civil war in sri lanka either. Why ? because it is NOT the subject. if someone brought up the case of the barbaric dairy industry, i would complain comparably.
Also, I did specify a preference for human survival in my post. Dolphins are often valued due to their intelligence compared to other animals, but humans are never measured on such a scale. Call it specism if you want, but it's a part of what's made us successful.
What made us successful was the development of tools, and wanton killing of other species for benefit. dolphins and some other species on the other hand, do not treat humans equally.
is this a good thing ? 'darwinist' ? if so, then we should apply 'survival of the fittest' to its fullest extent then - kill the infirm kids, the sick, the lower strata of the society, the unsuccessful, 'losers', those who can be overpowered, and so on. why not take a successful and proven practice further ? after all, its to the best of our species to get it rid of the infirm and weak.
And I won't address your last two paragraphs because it's obvious you don't know much about Japanese history, and what lead Japan into its hyper-aggression during that period. I don't have any particular penchant for Japanese culture, but your words are just plain racist.
On the contrary, history is my hobby. and i have spent much time on japan alone through its ages to the end of ww2. i very well know what led japan to the hyper aggression, and it was none other than your relegating the running of the country to samurai warrior class in baroque era and the exagerration and divination of the position of 'emperor'. you have quite succeeded in creating a society very similar to prussian military understanding, and this have led to what you did during 30-45. very sad that your people are still unaware of this, and more sad is that apparently the brutal thoughts still linger on deep down inside your people so that you are able to speak about a massacre as something 'natural'.
very 'darwinist' indeed.
Read radical news here
Evolution of modern whales from land-dwelling ancestors has been pretty well documented, with fossils showing the loss of the hind limbs (I seem to recall that Sperm Whales still retain a small pelvic girdle) as well as the migration of the nostrils from the tip of the snout to the blowhole on top of the head.
If you are near one of the partner museums you might visit the Explore Evolution exhibition (Disclosure: My Significant Other is Education Director at one of the museums).
"E pur si muove!" - attributed to Galileo Galilei, 1564-1642
maybe i should have said 'first on this scale'.
Read radical news here
But even Jain nuns' immune systems destroy bacteria and viruses on a regular basis ;)
:-)
Got a study to back up that claim? Maybe they're divinely protected against infection.
But aren't viruses irrelevant to the discussion, since by most definitions they don't qualify as "life"?
How can a post be modded "overrated" or "underrated" when it hasn't been rated yet?
This is evidence for G.D and intelligent design. The sudden emergence of the new fin features, previously unobserved, can only be attributed to an intelligent interlocuter. As a threatened species it is obvious that the dolphins have handed an extra feature as a device to counter the current human threats against them. Alas the capture of the enhanced doplhin and it likely demise as pricey Terriaki Tokyo Flipper Burger also lends weight to the argument that the human species has finally outwitted G.d and that we are well on the way to deep sixing the michief making little bugger for good.
The bikini - security through obscurity since 1943
today, china is the breeding ground of the most formidable flus. Coincidence ?
Nope. You have the worlds largest population, most of them living in what by western standards would be considered "squalor". THAT is the cause of your epidemics. Not some superbugs somehow created by Japanese magicians 50 years before we even understood how viruses worked. HIV is what taught us what a virus is - in depth. We're talking 1980's here, quite a few years after most of your Japanese "viral engineers" were dead. Pre 1980 we were limited to - oh yeah, there's these things called viruses, and we can vaccinate against some of them, we can grow them, and these are the diseases they cause, and this is how we think they're classified, and this is how we think they work.
Save your conspiracy theories from Reader's Digest.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
1. It's an AP story. Fox is just carrying it.
2a. Dolphins are intelligently designed from proto-hippos. Everybody knows this. There is no reason to repeat it in the story.
2b. James Hirsen (Fox's go-to guy for Idiotic Design) is busy pushing his "Hollywood Nation" book.
2c. Rupert Murdoch, having observed Sen. Hilary Clinton in her natural habitat of New York City, has concluded that evolution is an incontestable fact, because Hilary is also descended from proto-hippos.
How does vestigial-legged dolphin taste?
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Dude, that's the 80's. I think it's been coming back into style in North American. Explain what you mean by the poor Asian people down for coloring their hair. I thought your post was gaining momentum until I hit that point. Crash!
a bottlenose dolphin captured last month has an extra set of fins that could be the remains of back legs
Or the extra set of fins could simply mean dolphins had an extra set of fins! What idiot has to turn everything into legs? Next they'll find a rock with protrusions and there will be the proof that rocks once walked the earth.
And if I left an "l" out of Senator Clinton's name, it's because I care.
Or maybe it's a mutant dolphin that is developing extra new sets of fins...
so they can RETURN TO LAND...
...then what does a six fingered man imply?
The trouble with Karma is: it always gets worse.
That's true of pinnipeds (earless seals, fur seals, sea lions, and walruses). In cetaceans (whales and dolphins) and sirenians (dugongs and manatees), on the other hand, the hind flipper is a tail.
Come on 'scientists', use the scientific method... Why does this have to be called an old trait reasserting itself? Could this not be a new trait emerging? Think harder and be more creative...
Does anyone have a video of this old classic skit? YouTube pulled it and I can't find it any more. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
It's important to note that holding something sacred does not mean you do not kill and eat it. Native Americans held the buffalo sacred AND thought they were tasty.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
Yeah, I respect this notion at the end of my second paragraph here, but you still get my point if you substitute 'all life is sacred' with 'you shouldn't kill anything' in the original post.
It goes without saying that hunting an animal for food and treating it was reverence and respect is far removed from butchering loads of dolphins just for the hell of it.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
The caption under the picture says: "Divers hold a bottlenose dolphin which has an extra set of human"
Damned humans latch on to swimming dolphins like some pink lamprey.
Table-ized A.I.
bah, I find pieces of dolphin legs in my tuna all the time.
ôó
My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised they didn't say the liberal press is pushing evolution to the public, when God created that dolphin with four fins and it is just the first time humans have encountered a new species of dolphins.
Why where the fishermen capturing dolphins in the first place?
FRA: STFU GTFO
Amid a bunch of other stuff, talkorigins has a nice photgraph of bones from the hindleg of a humpback whale, specifically a femur, tibia, tarsus, and metatarsal. This dolphin's rear fins will be similarly composed, and not at all like fish fins in skeletal structure. It'll be pretty cool to see how it compares to other known cetacean rear legs from both modern examples and the fossil record once they X-ray the fins.
Don't bother, unless you want to look silly. Any dolphins with legs are simply the products of the overworked imagination of a scientist trying to find creative new ways to squander taxpayer money, rather than getting out into the private sector and becoming marketing executives like god intended. Evolution is impossible. God would never make a half-formed creature like that. There are no missing links. For that matter, any vestigial organs you see on Humans are simply the product of your own diseased imagination, tainted as it is by that most evil of all Human inventions -- public education.
leaves everyone blind
Also your approach, if you are not stupid of course, explains the fact that with what kind of logic japanese was able to kill around 10 million chinese during 1930-1945 with biological weapons in forms of 'flus', and why the world is STILL suffering from new 'flu' types coming out of china due to the abhorrent amount of germs and viruses your genocide with those bi-weapons caused to breed there over time.
Yes, the Japanese did have a biological warfare program during world war II. But, everything else you said is complete bullshit. Spread your disinformation somewhere else.
Some points:
Evolution is about exactly what the name implies -- change. There is no preferred order, no preferred direction, no plan. Creatures can move on and off the land, into the sea or out, into the air or out, underground, into the Earth's crust, etc.
When a human is born with a vestigial tail, is that devolution? Of course not. There's no such thing as devolution. Evolution is just change -- it has no direction. You can't undo it, because the reverse of evolution is just more evolution.
Evolution is about populations, not individuals. Random mutations are an idividual characteristic until they spread enough to constitute a defining characteristic of a new species.
It doesn't matter where a mutation comes from -- if it spreads out and contributes to the creation of a new species, that's evolution. Many mutations come from the effects of ambient radioactivity. The ocean has lots of radioisotopes dissolved in it. The surface is exposed to solar and cosmic radiation. Lots of radioactive material gets spewed from black smokers, and they can release a number of other extremely horrible chemicals. And of course, every single time a cell divides, random chance alone suggests you'll get an error or two -- simply because of the error-rate of DNA replication is high enough that it can occur that often (which is still pretty amazing accuracy).
I don't think anyone other than random kooks and nerds looking to make a joke are suggesting that dolphins are evolving back into land animals. We KNOW that the genes for leg development are still there because embryonic dolphins have hindlimbs. They've simply been inactivated by evolution. All it takes is a small mutation to reactivate them, something we also know since snakes with legs pop up from time to time as well, humans with tails, and a variety of other vestigial features. Mammalian males still haven't completely lost their nipples -- that's how pernicious some of these characteristics are. It takes a huge number of mutations to eliminate them and backsteps can happen at any point. It's all just chance. Random mutations happen, and if they happen to be positive, they're a bit more likely to persist, and if not, they're slightly more likely to die with their owner. After all, this dolphin is dead now, right? Its hindlimbs may have contributed to that, slowing down its swim-speed or making it more clumsy. Or this too could be chance. Evolution is a higher-order effect of a random process. Weather is random too, the result of random movements of air and moisture in reponse to heat, but no one doubts that the west coast gets more rain than the midwest, or that hurricanes are rare in Alaska. So too does evolution result from random mutations and the vagaries of death, survival, and successfull reproduction.
If you are so ignorant that you dont know the japanese bio warfare program started in 1932 or so to 'weed out' the 'unwanted' in new big japan (chinese lands), you go spread your bullshit around.
even first graders know that, as it has been even run in mainstream documentaries, and japanese prime ministers are apologizing from china for every single bomb that was dropped in 1932-45 with each passing year.
Read radical news here
this was said in order to draw attention to the problem of youth in japan about that matter.
many chinese and japanese look alike. this seems to be annoying them much, so we see them employing extravagant hairdos, garments to differentiate themselves. hair portruding from right side whereas looking down from the left, absurd trousers and jackets.
on top of that, these societies are much traditionalist, also they require their people stick to hard working, traditions, be orderly and so on. This is creating another motive to break up from the society and be different.
All kinds of extravangza follow such needs. Eating starfish shit, wearing titanium jackets, you name it. all for being different and unique.
Read radical news here
Well... I'd say it's not so much a thing about one culture versus another. I'd say it's about human nature.
There's nothing special about those people versus our people that made them more able to enjoy such a thing. It's just as possible for something like that to catch on here if it ever became a big enough fad. And animal cruelty certainly exists in America. Some teenagers think it's fun to skin stray cats alive, and laugh about it with their friends. People kill deer for "sport". Animal testing labs will slap monkeys and dogs around and cut into their skulls without anesthesia while the animal screams, or let their eyeballs rot out of their heads from cosmetics they rubbed in.
It's human nature that can be so sick and twisted. And it's not unique to east asian cultures. Examples exist all over the globe, even in countries that generally are the kindest to animals (like India maybe).
One dolphin is found with some extra fins from a population of x-million dolphins, and somehow this is evidence of evolution??
Talk about grasping at straws!! Sheesh!
Please.
If there wasnt any effect of what japanese did, the breeding-ground heaven for new viruses would be amazon area - lush, warm, humid, zillions of kinds of living creatures to infect and get carried about by, perfect fauna.
But instead we have horrendous amount of new flu coming out of china. only population ?
Read radical news here
I think you need to read the aptly-timed November 2006 National Geographic article "A Fin Is a Limb Is a Wing: How Evolution Fashioned Its Masterworks". It describes how the same genes (Hox genes, if I skimmed the article correctly) shared among many otherwise very differennt creatures produce species-specific results. For example, the same genes create fins in a fish, wings in a chicken, and limbs in a human (insert graphic, page 115), or control the length (or lack of) neck in a mouse, goose, or python (insert graphic, page 121).
r e4/
At least for a limited time, the article is even on the web for you to read:
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0611/featu
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Those are not vestigal legs. The dolphin realized its mistake and wants to come back to land. Obviously he has to grow legs first.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Hmmmm. I had to think about that. If the dolphins are so smart, then how come they allow themselves to get herded into a cove and slaughtered for the last hundred years? I mean, it would be different if we were talking about human prey who are limited by the same constraints that human hunters would be; but really dolphin can travel much faster than most boats, can dive deeper than most fishermen can, and have a far greater range not constrained by the contents of a fuel tank. So if they're so smart, then how come the Japanese have been able to slaughter them for so long?
I mean, think about it... if all they did was communicate to each other and say "hey, stay out of the Sea of Japan in Q4 of any year" that article would be about how Japanese fishermen are scratching their heads and having to import dolphins from Mexico in order to slaughter them...
You must read at +5 because I just saw a +4 insightful/stupid conspiracy theory.
2*31*37*263
You keep assuming I'm Japanese, and that I'm apologizing for Japanese culture--that's a bad assumption. I'm neither.
What I object to is cultural elitism. All cultures have skeletons in the closet. Some are just buried deeper, and further back in history.
Are you allergic to people who express ideas contrary to your worldview?
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Please return to China and promptly declare yourself as the Falun Gong idiot you are for reeducation. You continued activity in this state is detrimental to the entirety of human civilisation.
Nothing to say. It was simply a mutation.
3. Profit!
2. ???
1. On Soviet Slashdot, a Beowulf cluster of alien Natalie Portman overlords welcomes YOU!
Dolphin found with extra fins.
Shocking stuff, no?
The reporting researchers seem to have run with gross speculation and no evidence, sure that their version of the story will be popular. And it is. Mostly because the bulk of their readers are unaware that it's a fairy-tale, not a genuine report.
That may not be as entertaining as you'd hoped, but it is insightful.
I thought WATER creatures evolved into LAND creatures. How did dolphins come from land?
Maybe all the dolphins that know to stay away get caught and die, so they aren't able to fully communicate the issue.
I agree.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
How is the world do fossils prove evolution?
A perfectly reasonable question, if you are completely unfamiliar with the subject. Any minimally adaquate highschool biology class would have answered that for you. Saldly, US highschools (especially in certain states) often fail to provide a minimally adaquate biology education.
Where are the intermediate forms?
A perfectly reasonable question, if you are completely unfamiliar with the subject. Any minimally adaquate highschool biology class would have answered that for you. Saldly, US highschools (especially in certain states) often fail to provide a minimally adaquate biology education.
What?! What do you mean there aren't any?
Who the heck told you there weren't any?
Whoever told you that, whatever side of the issue they were on, they didn't know what they were talking about.
Did you bother checking Google to see if transitional fossils exist or not?
Did you bother checking Wikipedia here or better yet here?
Did you bother opening a biology textbook? Or a dead tree encyclopedia? Did you bother asking a scientist? Or a biology teacher? Hell, you can even try asking your doctor - any doctor has obviously been required to take extensive biology classes and is obviously intelligent and educated and can almost certainly address it.
Or how about checking any one of countless FAQ's on evolution?
No, obviously not.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Cats are developing opposable thumbs. I've seen several cats with six toes on their front paws--some even have six on their back paws too. They can grasp things like little monkeys. I, for one, welcome our new six-toed cat overloads (who are soon to replace our five-toed cat overloads).
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
This sentence implies tha if some species are perceived as being unintelligent, it is ok to keep them in captivity, effectively TORTURING THEM EVERY SINGLE INSTANT of their life from birth to death, just to eat their meat. IMHO, rationalized cattle transport, pig & chicken farming, not to mention the methods used in producing foie gras (goose liver), are way more barbaric than whale hunting.
Disclaimer: I am born and raised in the whaling nation of Norway, but I quickly moved abroad, and I'm not happy about the hunting of whales. However, the whole international whaling debate almost always boils down to emotional arguments like this one. I hadn't heard about this Taiji whaling thing until now, but it seems quite like what they in the Faroe Islands refer to as Grindadrap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Faro
amazon area - lush, warm, humid, zillions of kinds of living creatures.
Except one species of slightly important creature - HUMAN BEINGS. There are actually only very FEW viruses that cross species boundaries. And the Amazon is certainly not one of the world's most densely populated areas. The Brazilian cost yes, the jungle, no.
Sorry, here, have a "Go directly to Epidemiology class, do not pass Go, do not collect $200" card...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
First of all, they don't know why it has the extra fins. Could be a mutation. It could simply be problems during fetal development. Dolphins have hind fins as fetuses and then they're "removed" before birth, much like human fetuses have webbed fingers before birth, but the webbing is removed. It could simply be that the the removal of the fins didn't happen much as, some children are born with webbed fingers.
Rare? Sure. Newsworthy? I'm not so sure. There are more animals than people and birth defects aren't that uncommon among people, so do the math. I suspect there are quite a few more dolphins out there with extra sets of fins. Our exposure has been to a very small percentage of the dolphin population, however.
Go check wikipedia if ya doubt me.
I don't doubt you... and I think Wikipedia is fantastic... but that comment was just too funny!
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Except when it comes to natural selection the trigger event always seems to be assumed to have come about by the same pure chance as the mutation is assumed to be.
Cut those flippers off! We must make the thing normal again. (You know, like cutting off the sixth finger on some people...)
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
And it was delicious!
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Oh PLEASE let the 'Simpsons' creators turn it into a companion for Blinky the three-eyed fish!
o ns/misc/simp/bsi_simp188.gif
http://www.backstreetmerch.com/images/products/to
"It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
FTA: "I believe the fins may be.."
Slashdot: "Evidence, it would seem,.."
i was under the impression that the dolphins were evolving from the sea to go to land, and not the other way around. they figured there's not enough fish in the sea.
Every fossil is an intermediate form. But beyond that, we have a good many fossils that demonstrate faunal succession. That's a key prediction of evolutionary theory. If you wish to bury your head in the sand and make-believe away that evidence, then so be it, but at least have the good grace to have the faintest idea what the evidence actually is.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Clearly it is the first stage in the development of opposable thumbs...http://www.theonion.com/content/node/2831 5
Rocks do walk the earth. I've got inrefutable proof of that:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0425005/
This also explains why those little concrete poles at the side of the road always seem to want to cross the road when I'm biking home drunk...
Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
He was - give me some more Ketamine!
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
Ugh. Why do people assume that it's the REMNANTS of a past evolution? Evolution is an ongoing process. Why do they find a dolphin with back fins and go "oh this is the leftover of a millions-year-old evolutionary process".. instead of "oh cool, this species appears to be re-evolving back to a land mammal"? Humans.. sheesh. :P
a discovery that may provide further evidence that ocean-dwelling mammals once lived on land.
As opposed to what? Falling from the sky? Being formed from clay by a divine being? Oh, I forgot, people actually believe that.
In any case, these vestigial legs provide little evidence that wasn't already well known: the DNA sequences leave no doubt that dolphins had land-dwelling ancestors.
was that it had tap shoes on...
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
Make up your own mind, but don't rely on one source for your information (especially an animal rights group).
AccountKiller
Pussy. ;-)
Oh, sarcasm man, sarcasm. Didn't the mention of how scientists are evil tip you off? No one who uses a computer or an internet gets to say that without their tongue inserted well into their cheek. Hey, the bible quote about how great it is to murder babies ought to be enough on its own. I'd make it more obvious, but I have yet to come up with a good ascii-art rendition of the suckerfish logo.
When I see prayer end homelessness, a disease (any disease at all will do, I'm a fair guy), bring an end to even a single war (or maybe I should expect it to end at least one war for each one that religion has inspired?), or really anything demonstratable whatsoever, I'll consider that a data point in religion's favour. Until then, religion has nothing going for it and about a zillion data points suggesting a random, unplanned universe. Any deific figures in that universe seem to be at best disinterested, and at worse actively cruel spiteful. Your god doesn't even have the goddam common decency to strike down his most evil hypocritical followers, like child-molesting priests, evangelists that steal from the faithful by taking god's name in vain, born-agains who execute children, condone torture, start wars, and poison god's creation. He doesn't strike down those who speak against him or turn their backs on his church and condemn his followers. He let 5 MILLION of his chosen people be reduced to a fine ash, along with 5 million more people who were assorted varieties of Christian. And what has that god done that is good? What has he done to give life meaning? And before you answer, visit one of America's ghettos, and try to find the meaning in the lifes of the people there. Visit a TB ward at a hospital. Check out the rising popularity of beating homeless people to death and putting videos of it on the Internet. Look at the war that American Christians have caused by voting for any man -- no matter how stupid, evil, and genocidal -- that can thump his bible the hardest. Just so that they don't have to face the prospect of a president who, despite following christian ethics more closely, isn't a vocal proponent of theocracy.
Let me summarize, assuming you have the courage to actually read this, by saying: fuck you, your religion, and everything about it. Religion is a disease, and has caused more violence and hatred than any other factor in all of Human history. Real morality comes from within. Real meaning comes from within. Only a shallow, immoral person needs it imposed from without by the threat of punishment.
Lets see now, if we will be able to find a similar behaviour pattern, anywhere anytime in the world.
Hmmm.
Mohandas Kharamcad Gandhi and his followers - people who have not resisted their opressors, and despite totally being capable of retaliating (even if with sticks) and/or running, have suffered in the hands of british opressors.
Interesting, with your approach, we should classify these people as 'not smart' - in the most politically correct meaning as the saying can be.
"Stay clear of q4 of any year" - and that is a fantastic proposition, in a world of abundance and merriment of course, as it does not take into account the fact that for over 60 years now human race has been eradicating oceans of their fertility with hi-tech troll boats. when species have younglings to feed, they take utmost risks. however in the case at hand, the japanese who are stabbing them to death have no immediate need for feeding their younglings - neither the japanese fishermen who troll oceans to death do.
Read radical news here
You keep assuming I'm Japanese
I might have done that, in the heat of the moment and from your manner of speaking. i apologize for the mistake.
also, 10 million people is not 'some skeleton in the closet'. it is unparaleled in world history. everything should be put in its place.
and, no. im just very reactive against people who strongly advocate inhumane approaches to issues.
Read radical news here
i have, in response to an earlier post, pointed out that, if the subject in question was inhumane dairy industry, i would speak against it with the same fervor. subject was dolphins, and i spoke about that. same goes for whaling, something which is in no way rationalizeable.
Read radical news here
amazon forest is not devoid of human population. albeit scarce, tribes live there.
given the way how we can even cause simplest of viruses mutate, through our constant use of heavy antibiotics and similar drugs, and have more dangerous ones in our hands after a while, it is not something impossible for a totally harmless virus to pass through the local tribesmen to visitors (scientists, or tourists, or government workers), and carry itself in dormant state to western world where it will mutate. after all, aids came from monkeys in africa. or did it not ?
Read radical news here
I will just choose to ignore an 'opinion' by an 'Anonymous Coward', if you please.
Read radical news here
its so they can sneak up onto land and take tools they need to get of the planet
Parent post of mine have become an excellent identifier for people that have mod points and use them in unfair and arbitrary means.
Read radical news here
Do I see only evil in the world? Of course not. I just don't see God doing anything. All the good I've ever seen was done by myself or other people, the majority of them not Christians. If morality has to spring from God, how can atheists be doing good in the world? Why aren't they all just out murdering and killing and raping and molesting? Why are God-fearing men and women advocating murder? Could it be that god is superfluous to morality? Superfluous PERIOD?
It's funny that you mention computers, given that some of the most sophisticated and incredible algorithms were designed by genetic algorithms. They produce amazingling efficient, minimal, irreducibly complex solutions to problems -- solutions no Human could possibly understand, let alone invent. In fact, the term irreducibly complex only has a clearly defined meaning in computer science; it's possible to actually PROVE that something is or isn't irreducibly complex in computer science. And wouldn't you know it? Irreducible complexity is no barrier to natural selection, because mutation can add AND remove complexity. Flagella have been shown to only require two proteins that don't exist elsewhere in the cell, there is a clear progression of complexity from the simplest light-sensors right through to the mammalian eye, etc. Sorry, but intelligent design fails every test put to it. Evolution has been demonstrated to be a sound principle capable of generating any level of complexity, irreducible or otherwise.
Religion is, and I quote, "A system of beliefs that involves the existence of at least one of: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one's body." Atheism satisfies none of these things, and is therefore not a religion of any kind. Worship of the self doesn't count either, unless one genuinely believes that they are a higher being of some kind. Science isn't a religion either, since it says nothing about any of those things whatsoever. Christians are just threatened because science doesn't REQUIRE God. But then, we've already seen that God isn't required for anything -- not for the money I donate to the Vancouver food bank, not for the volunteer work my atheistic friend Allison does with disabled people, or for anything else. God is simply not required.
The funniest thing, of course, is that you assume that I'M an atheist, just because I believe in science and don't support religion. I can find the divine without a cult, thank you. And I can understand the divine based on the real world -- ie, praying does nothing, so I know that any God that exists must generally not answer prayers. Christians have approximately the same increase in life expectancy that atheists who meditate have; ergo, God doesn't extend the lives of worshippers. Ultimately, you end up having to conclude that any god that does exist is stri
How does an asexual microbe (from which evolutionists are dying to prove we came from) evolve into a two-gendered species of any sort without killing itself off in the process?
The answer is LOVE, baby.
You can't take the sky from me...
Not true. Moslim fundamentalists are also generally creationists.
I have no idea how many moslims are creationists and how many accept a more scientific explanation, but I do know that many christians abhor the American creationist/ID movement. I know I do. Unfortunately it seems American creationism is slowly growing in Europe. I keep hearing worrying stories about Poland mostly, but also from England.
Before worrying about prokariotes like bacteria, lets worry about the poor plants first. They're more closely related to us, have more highly developed cellular structure, etc. Yet we build giant machines to massacre millions of them per day!
How is it possible that the grandparent, who is quite obviously not serious, is being modded Troll, while the parent who takes him seriously is modded Insightful?
How can people possibly take a tongue-in-cheek protest against killing bacteria seriously? How would they imagine someone like that eats? You kill more life, and more highly advanced life, by eating an apple than by washing your hands.