Slashdot Mirror

Except for alcohol (a glass of wine a day demonstrably reduces your chances of heart disease and stroke)?

More recently there have been studies that show schizophrenics may have been self medicating with nicotine for generations, and it actually helps? http://www.schizophrenia.com/n...

Pot (THC) is also still good for glaucoma, anorexia and medication related nausea and to facilitate weight gain.

While it is true that *some* patient will have an age onset of psychopathology later in life (e.g. 40 to 50 is the number I see most popping up as secondary peak), the majority will have an age onset between 17 and 20, because that's the period of growth of the brain where it is vulnerable. Usually later in life it is poorly understood , as it seems to come from a different etiology. e.g. See here for onset statistic for example of schizophrenia as one psychopathology : http://www.schizophrenia.com/p... (A typological model of schizophrenia based on age at onset, sex and familial morbidity. Acta Psychyatric Scandinavica 89, 135-141 (1994).)

As such the study is not flawed, since the onset for most psychopathology is early age. Now if you were talking for other pathology, senescence related, like dementia or Alzheimer , you would have a point, but this is NOT what the study is about.

Weirdly enough the lung cancer rate of schizophrenics is significantly lower than the population as a whole despite a higher than normal rate of smoking. http://www.schizophrenia.com/s...
Interestingly they also have lower rates of rheumatoid arthritis. Presumably there's a link between the immune system and schizophrenia.

"The numbers also were striking for their newborns - 92.4 percent of African-American babies and 66.1 percent of white infants were found to have insufficient vitamin D at birth." Source

It affects all mothers, but black mothers more. Scientific research supports that conclusion. I'll admit it was odd in this context to single out black mothers in the GP's comment (the schizophrenia link to vitamin d deficiency was the interesting part), but you'll have to provide an argument as to why it's racist.

That appeared to be true in 2010 but more recent research has shown the opposite effect may be in play. I.e. classical correlation may not be causation.

People who are at risk of having schizophrenia use more pot. (i.e. the pot isn't causing the psychosis... the oncoming psychosis is causing self medication with pot).

Good point on the bronchitus... as I mentioned, I'd prefer the consumables myself.

A VERY good point that you'll find out there is that as pot use increased in the 60's and 70's, incidence of schizophrenia and psychosis fell in the 70's, 80's and 90s. The reverse should have been true.

Even so (and addressing your point).. based on the old research, experts estimated that pot only increased the incidence of schizophrenia from 1% to 1.11%. Among those, many have mild symptoms.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/s...

15% commit suicide within 30 years. So about .15%. Of course, 90%+ of those do not use pot. So 2 million schizophrenia * 15% = 300,000 suicides over 30 years = 30,000 suicides per year * .1 = 3,000 suicides per year you could generously say were related to pot induced schizophrenia.

Thoughts?

As can be seen from the graph below, schizophrenia definitely has a very significant genetic component. Those who have a third degree relative with schizophrenia are twice as likely to develop schizophrenia as those in the general population. Those with a second degree relative have a several-fold higher incidence of schizophrenia than the general population, and first degree relatives have an incidence of schizophrenia an order of magnitude higher than the general populace.

The causes of schizophrenia are not fully known. However, it appears that schizophrenia usually results from a complex interaction between genetic and environmental factors. Schizophrenia has a strong hereditary component. Individuals with a first-degree relative (parent or sibling) who has schizophrenia have a 10 percent chance of developing the disorder, as opposed to the 1 percent chance of the general population. But schizophrenia is only influenced by genetics, not determined by it. While schizophrenia runs in families, about 60% of schizophrenics have no family members with the disorder. Furthermore, individuals who are genetically predisposed to schizophrenia don’t always develop the disease, which shows that biology is not destiny.

Unlike other genetic conditions such as Huntington's or cystic fibrosis, it is believed that no one single gene causes the disease by itself but rather that several genes are associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia. While schizophrenia occurs in one percent of the general population, having a history of family psychosis greatly increases the risk. Schizophrenia occurs at roughly ten percent of people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder, i.e., a parent or sibling. However, the highest risk occurs when an identical twin is diagnosed with schizophrenia. The unaffected twin has a roughly 50 percent chance of developing the disorder. The genetic component appears to extend beyond family environment. For example, children with a parent living with schizophrenia who were put up for early adoption still develop schizophrenia at a higher rate than the rest of the of the population.

Further down the page, the US government weighs in:

Scientists have long known that schizophrenia runs in families. The illness occurs in 1 percent of the general population, but it occurs in 10 percent of people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder, such as a parent, brother, or sister. People who have second-degree relatives (aunts, uncles, grandparents, or cousins) with the disease also develop schizophrenia more often than the general population. The risk is highest for an identical twin of a person with schizophrenia. He or she has a 40 to 65 percent chance of developing the disorder. We inherit our genes from both parents. Scientists believe several genes are associated with an increased risk of schizophrenia, but that no gene causes the disease by itself.16 In fact, recent research has found that people with schizophrenia tend to have higher rates of rare genetic mutations. These genetic differences involve hundreds of different genes and probably disrupt brain development.

Some of those links include actual cites from scientific studies, by the way. I'm not going to bother locating physical copies of those journals and don't have a pubmed subscription, but you're welcome to look them up if you'd like.

It is well known that pot use is a trigger to schizophrenia in a significant chunk of the population.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

Of course, pot junkies will say "correlation is not causation" or similar diatribe deniers are using to justify their "misunderstanding" of science. And that's no surprise, they are junkies. Just like alcoholics will say they don't have a problem with alcohol.

Believe it or not pregnant women can die too. From any number of causes.

Infection during pregnancy is a risk factor for schizophrenia in the child, not the mother. This is particularly true of influenza.

Got bored waiting, so took 10 seconds to refer to Google:
As can be seen from the graph below, schizophrenia definitely has a very significant genetic component.
Note that this link has references which lead to (drum roll....) peer reviewed studies! Some of you may want to view with caution.

Scientists aren’t certain about what causes ASD, but it’s likely that both genetics and environment play a role. Researchers have identified a number of genes associated with the disorder.
ASD == Autism Spectrum Disorder. This page is informational, but contains links to more info. Again, view with caution.

So, tell me again how there is no genetic link to these diseases and that you don't need to provide any proof to support that statement? I wasn't asking you to prove a negative, a reference citing that no genetic link had ever been found, maybe that X other causal factors were, would support your point. It seems that the exact opposite of your unsupported claim is what is generally accepted. Or are you going to tell me that NIH has it completely wrong?

That's a good source and seems newer than previous reports I have seen. In this one, some effect on negative symptoms is reported for atypicals rather than none.

It is noteworthy though that while smoking has terrible effects on health (perhaps not as bad as atypicals), nicotine administered by other means (such as patch, gum, or e-cig) is much less harmful. Given the problem of schizophrenics going off their meds, the addictive effects of nicotine might actually be a good thing.

Even in that paper, the bias against nicotine is evident. It acknowledges that perhaps patients shouldn't be forced to quit smoking but never considers medically administered nicotine either as a replacement for smoking or even as a treatment for non-smokers in spite of nicotine being well understood, approved in the form of patches and gum (and so available for off-label use) and known to have less harmful side effects than the other drugs the patient is likely on.

Nicotine is also MUCH cheaper than the other drugs.

There are several other good references, such as a study in Sweden showing that nicotine use reduces incidence of schizophrenia. Here is a good overview that also indicates a benefit in age related cognitive and memory function decline.

Google will yield many more.

That's a good source and seems newer than previous reports I have seen. In this one, some effect on negative symptoms is reported for atypicals rather than none.

It is noteworthy though that while smoking has terrible effects on health (perhaps not as bad as atypicals), nicotine administered by other means (such as patch, gum, or e-cig) is much less harmful. Given the problem of schizophrenics going off their meds, the addictive effects of nicotine might actually be a good thing.

Even in that paper, the bias against nicotine is evident. It acknowledges that perhaps patients shouldn't be forced to quit smoking but never considers medically administered nicotine either as a replacement for smoking or even as a treatment for non-smokers in spite of nicotine being well understood, approved in the form of patches and gum (and so available for off-label use) and known to have less harmful side effects than the other drugs the patient is likely on.

Nicotine is also MUCH cheaper than the other drugs.

There are several other good references, such as a study in Sweden showing that nicotine use reduces incidence of schizophrenia. Here is a good overview that also indicates a benefit in age related cognitive and memory function decline.

Google will yield many more.

The fact that marijuana is 100% safe

100% safe, huh? Not if you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, it can increase your chances of developing it by 10x. There are also some other correlations, but then again correlation != causation. Really all I'm getting at is lets not call it a wonder drug with no downsides.
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

BTW I am in favor of legalizing it

A couple of seconds of googling? Thats impressive given you have to be a member to view it.

Crap, it's one of those sites that shows you the full article if you have a google referrer. Try this and click the first link.

And a lifetime of substance abuse is likely to lead to mental illness. And we're back where we started.

If that were the case, you'd expect larger proportions of tobacco users etc to be schizophrenic as well. But nicotine actually reduces the risk of schizophrenia. So far, there's no consensus as to the cause of the link between schizophrenia and addiction. It may be that the schizophrenics are self medicating, or they may just be more susceptible to addiction.

Yeah. Anything in "excess" is probably bad for you! However, if you smoke too much pot (I quit 25 years ago), all you do is fall asleep. You would need a ton of pure THC to kill yourself. Smoking it might result in terminal munchies, but it won't kill you by itself! :-)

Just a note of caution (drugs always have side effects)
Pot for some people has been linked to schizophrenia

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001475.html

This study CORRELATES high intake of caffeine to auditory/visual hallucinations--and ASSUMES caffeine came first. What if people who are already prone to having these hallucinations tend to consume more caffeine?

Another correlation of this nature is that people with schizophrenia are ~75% likely to smoke and others with mental illness are prone to this trend as well. Source Here.

Also, this study was held at a university, and their test subjects are freshmen/sophomore level psych majors looking to get extra credit in their 300 level class. These students are already stressed about exams, relationships, money, and the fact they will probably have to work at Starbucks when they graduate because they got a Pysch degree--so to suggest that the sample is not bias in that way (and is indeed not anymore stressed than the regular adult population) is unscientific.

Northern, 1594 subjects: http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001074.html It's not astrology, it's science. But if it's the best evidence around that could back up astrology, it's still pretty weak. I'm sticking with fortune cookies!

I'm very sure it's environmental influences. http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/001074.html Astrology is bunk. Period. Still, it's amusing to note in some limited circumstances it's quite reasonable to say that the position of things in the sky at birth might be influencing how kids might grow up. Pretty much only the sun. To deny that because it sounds like astrology, and astrology is bunk, is to ignore science as much as astrologists do.

Who's making a determination of intent if not you? And why the angry tone?

Googling "Bobby Fischer paranoid schizophrenia" quickly gives some reading material. Take a look here, and here. From the second one: "Bobby Fischer has been swindled out of a "vast fortune" in royalties by book publishers, movie studios, and clock manufacturers (yes, clock manufacturers), who have brazenly pilfered his brand name, patents, and copyrights... Gary Kasparov, the world's top-rated player, is a "crook" and a former KGB spy who hasn't played a match in his life in which the outcome wasn't prearranged... Millions of dollars' worth of personal memorabilia, painstakingly collected and stockpiled by Bobby Fischer in a ten-by-ten-foot Bekins storage room in Pasadena, California, has been stolen from him in a secret plot involving the Rothschilds (Jews), Bill Clinton (a secret Jew), and unnamed Bekins executives (CIA rats who work for the Jews)". Sane?

FIY, I got a BA degree in psychology before I turned to CS. That in no way makes me capable of diagnosing someone I only know through the media. What makes you the authority to declare him having been a hate-spewing sane person?

im too lazy to go digging around the article, but diagnosing schizophrenia in a human being ... ok.

actually they dont even know how to diagnose it exactly.

"People diagnosed with schizophrenia usually experience a combination of positive (i.e. hallucinations, delusions, racing thoughts), negative (i.e. apathy, lack of emotion, poor or nonexistant social functioning), and cognitive (disorganized thoughts, difficulty concentrating and/or following instructions, difficulty completing tasks, memory problems). "

http://www.schizophrenia.com/diag.php#diagnosis

now, how do you find out if a mouse has those problems?

besides, only a psychiatrist can diagnose schizophrenia, which we learned yesterday from slashdot posters, is just another 'left wing conspiracy' major, an evil liberal arts degree, when what this country really needs is more engineers blah blah blah etc etc etc.

Actually nicotine plays an extremely important role in controlling how these other neurotransmitters are released in the brain. Not only does it help release more dopamine, but it helps your brain better use the dopamine it already has. This is extremely important for any sort of mental disease involving a cognitive impairment (schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's). It is estimated that up to 85% of schizophrenia patients self-medicate by smoking cigarettes. http://www.schizophrenia.com/smoke.htm These types of drugs have a lot of potential to change how we treat these diseases. There's also a lot of money to be made doing it. They might also one day be considered a type of "cognitive enhancer" that anyone can take and benefit from.

I remember reading a few months ago that some reseachers had a found a higher incidence of schizophrenia among persons who, when small children, had had cats in their households, leading some to believe that Toxoplasmosis gondii may be a causal factor. Apparently, it is claimed that new research has confirmed this. This is of personal interest to me because my 14 year-old son was infected by Toxoplasmosis a couple years ago during a vist to Trinidad. Physicians suspect that the most likely source was my wife's aunt's home-made yogurt, which my kids love. My wife's aunt is an animal lover, and keeps numerous dogs and cats, as well as feeding hosts of wild birds that descend on the house every morning.

It was discovered after he complained about spots in his vision, and an opthalmological determined that there was a lesion on his retina which was flaking away. A blood test confirmed the presence of Toxoplasmosis gondii. Now he has to have an annual examination to ensure that the parasite is being kept under control by antibiotics, but it's always an extremely apprehensive time for us.

After injecting the hamsters with a solution containing nanoparticles, the nerves re-grew and sight returned

In order to try to restore quality of life to those individuals you can try to reconnect some disconnected parts to try to give some functionality

Anyway it's a strange view that, if it's in the genes, it's OK, but if it's caused by the environment, it's somehow less real. Would we convert left-handers to right-handers if we found out it's an enviromental factor that determined their chiral preference?

I'd worry; lefties will be a convenient target for genetic screening ... all in the name of better public health, of course.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd= Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8216870&dopt=Abstract

Quite the contrary, 36.7% of children of LHI were left-handed, while 7.3% children of RHI happen to be left-handed (P < 0.00025).

Being a lefty is an inherited trait.

http://www.canoe.ca/Health0007/06_hands.html

Study finds gays more likely to be left-handed than straights

...

But exposure to sex hormones and environmental factors such as pollutants and stress during pregnancy can alter the genetic blueprint, contributing to left-handedness.

"There's something that happens early in development that can shift development towards a left-side bias," says Lalumiere.

In turn, those blips may also be a factor in determining homosexuality.

"This study is one more piece of evidence that suggests sexual orientation is at least partly determined in-utero," says Blanchard.

So, whether you're a lefty or gay or both, you can say you were born that way.

Other risk factors of being left-handed include being more likely to suffer post-traumatic stress disorder http://www.acpmh.unimelb.edu.au/research/summary20 03.html

n a provocative preliminary study, Chemtob et al. hypothesized that deviations from normal hemispheric dominance may increase risk (Chemtob & Taylor, 2003). They examined hand preference in 118 right-handed male veterans. PTSD prevalence was lowest for respondents reporting a consistent hand preference and right handed parents (44%) and highest for those reporting both mixed laterality and a left handed parent (100%). Moderately high PTSD rates were observed in veterans reporting either a mixed lateral preference or left handed parent (70%). These findings suggest that an imbalance in hemispheric dominance for processing threatening and/or emotional information may increase vulnerability to PTSD following trauma.

- Chemtob, C. M., & Taylor, K. B. (2003). Mixed lateral preference and parental left-handedness possible markers of risk for PTSD. Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, 191(5), 332-338.

Higher risk of schizophrenia if you're a leftie ...http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/00 2346.html

When this was noted in the data, it was found that they had higher STA scores than those who had not been forced to switch. Also it was found that "males who were non-right handers, and who presumably had mixed-handedness, having significantly higher STA scores than full right-handers" (PsychiatryMatters.MD).

These results support the claim that left-handedness and being ambidextrous was a risk factor for schizophrenia symtoms.

Diabetes: http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read,1009,2592.html

Our results: people with diabetes are three times more likely to be left-handed than the general population.

Other connections:

I was going to make a flippant comment about you not trusting my answer, but you should look at the AC's comments about http://schizophrenia.com/

Mental disorders aren't black and white. There are schizophrenics that are very high function, usually with the help of medication, and there are those who's grip on reality has slipped totally. However it's not generally an on-off switch, as in person is normal one day, gone the next. It's progressive. People show eairly signs and continue to get worse, if not treated (http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm for a list if you like). I had a neighbour who slipped down the slope of schizophrenia of the course of a few years. He was a nomal guy for most of his life, but his behaviour became increaslingly paranoid and erratic. It wasn't an immediate thing, though. He didn't go from normal to shouting at things in the night (which he did do near the end) in a day, or even in a year. It was a gradual process.

Now, as I noted, I'm not a psychologist, this isn't a medical diagnosis, however Thompson's behaviour is extremely odd, seems to be increasingly erratic, and shows one hell of a parinoia streak. It's enough to give me cause to wonder. Apparantly was enough to give the courts cause as well. A couple years ago he was ordered to undergo a psyc eval. He passed, but it's rather uncommon for that to be ordered.

As for my choice in termonolgy: It's not meant to be medically accurate, it's meant to help explain to people what I mean. Most people are calling him crazy as an insult, I am calling him crazy meaning that his mind may not be functioning correctly. I don't care if my termonology is correct or not. I'm writing an informal post on a chat baord, not submitting a paper for publication.

Cancer.

Maybe the new cells rewire the brain, causing paranoia and hallucinations...

http://www.schizophrenia.com/New/Jan%2004/cannabis risk.htm

Uh, go look through my post for the words "cause, causes, caused" etc. You chicken shit annonymous muppet.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/New/Jan%2004/cannabis risk.htm

You go on smoking as much of the stuff as you can get your hands on, they'll just section you, lock you up and dope you to the eyeballs with anti psychotics. If you're lucky you'll get some of the more recent drugs and you might be able to lead a semi-normal life when you grow up.

First off, I'd like to state that "A Beautiful Mind" does not provide an accurate representation of schizophrenia, in general. While the symptoms of intense paranoia are pretty accurate (for paranoid schizophrenics, as opposed to catatonic schizophrenics, or any of the other types), visual hallucinations are not all that normal. Typically hallucinations from paranoid schizophrenia come in an audible form. The real John Forbes Nash did not suffer visual ones, but rather heard voices. This first bit may seem off the point, but I feel it's important to not go into this expecting your sister to start talking about an imaginary roommate.

Depending on the severity of the schizophrenia, medication may help a great deal or may..not. I have two uncles, both of which have at one point or another have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. One takes the medications prescribed to him as he should, and has returned to relative normality. He does become slightly paranoid from time to time, but it is nowhere near as severe as it was without medication, and the episodes are short-lived.
The second uncle is a different story. He is also bi-polar, and during his manic states, he feels he is cured of his plight and no longer needs the meds, so he ceases to take them, plunging him back into his previous state.

I think the best advice I can offer you and your sister is to listen to the advice of professionals, take the medications as prescribed and make sure she has regular meetings/sessions with her psychiatrist or psychologist.

Her life will probably not be as it was, but she should still be able to lead a relatively normal life style.

God be with both of you.

For more information check here or here.

• The DSM IV (diagnostic and statistical manual)
• National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (find your local chapter and get as much support for the rest of the family as for her)
• schizophrenia.com (get literate and read like crazy [oops], and eventually get a sense of humor rather than just crying)
• Voices by Dream Theater, part of A Mind Beside Itself

Don't confuse schizophrenia vs. manic depression with paranoid delusions or other personality disorders. As I understand it, the distinction is that schizophrenics hallucinate (have false senses in realtime, as if something is really seen or heard) whereas that type of manic depressives do not (they may confabulate memories of having seen or heard something).

Reading the original post and the above posts makes it very obvious that schizophrenia is one of the most misunderstood diseases. Schizophrenia is actually quite well studied, and there are some great medicines to help treat it. The problem is that schizophrenics are not well-prepared (gross generalization here) to take their medicine consistently, and sometimes need help with that.

Also (and this is a big pet peeve of everyone who actually knows anything about the disease), schizophrenia does NOT mean you have multiple personalities. That is multiple personality disorder. Schizophrenia literally means "split mind" if you look at the roots of the word, but that means that their mind is split from reality and that they live in their own internally-created world, not that their mind is split into two or more pieces.

To answer your question, though, it's something that you need to take seriously, and you've done that by asking the right question (although frankly from the wrong people). There are probably a lot of online groups where you could learn more facts about the disease (i.e. schizophrenia.com seems legit). Educate yourself as much as you can.

I understand you're trying to joke, but let's get this clear: this is not schizophrenia. Roughly speaking, schizophrenia is when people hear and see things that aren't there. What you're talking about is MPD, Multiple Personality Disorder, the stuff that Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde are made of.