Slashdot Mirror

The production of products using raw milk is not illegal in the EU. They are authorized with some very reasonable stipulations concerning the health of the animals producing the raw milk, labeling the product and making sure the conformity of the milk is consistent.

References:
http://www.eurosurveillance.or...
http://slowfood.com/slowcheese...

> 1) Are my grandparents healthier? No, all 4 died below the average life expectancy for their gender.

Good luck to you, buddy...

> 2...Maybe "eat local" should be a movement.

It actually is one, look at http://www.slowfood.com/ and http://www.locavorian.com/
For a start, there are lots more where that came from. "Foraging" is the new hip gastronomy thing,
some of the best chefs in the world go and look in fields for herbs.

> 3...But cavemen weren't known for long, happy lives..

You are right, they weren't. Anytime I meet an ecological anti-medicine, anti-everything green whackjob who moans and moans about everything, claims that my cellphone will make my balls shrink(heard that!) or that they follow the advice Hildegard von Bingen (a 12th century witch doctor) or whatever freaks them out this time, I have only one question: If everything is so bad why is the life expectancy of humans rising? If they can answer that I will listen to their green ecological crap.

That said, I do grow my own vegetables.

I buy my milk almost direct from the cow - at least, I get to pump the stuff from the tank at the dairy into my tanker. However, since I work in Australia, where dairy products have to be made from pasteurised milk, I am required to pasteurise it myself.

Canada too requires milk to be pasteurized, well at least some of the provinces do. In the US some states but not all require it, some allow raw milk. Since 1987, according to the above link, the FDA requires "milk sold and distributed between states for human consumption be pasteurized". However there is a raw milk movement in the US seeking to get rid of laws requiring pasteurization.

This is something I'm often asked about, especially by members of the Slowfood movement

A movement I support, even if only in spirit.

Every now and then, I get the occasional wanker who insists that a "real" cheese should be redolent of the barnyard.

I have used pasteurized milk to make cheese but I want to use raw milk when I next make some.

Falcon

Do you buy and use pasteurized or raw milk?

I buy my milk almost direct from the cow - at least, I get to pump the stuff from the tank at the dairy into my tanker. However, since I work in Australia, where dairy products have to be made from pasteurised milk, I am required to pasteurise it myself.

This is something I'm often asked about, especially by members of the Slowfood movement, and I make a point of demonstrating that a good cheesemaker has no difficulty in producing a worthwhile product from pasteurised milk. It's a matter of introducing strictly measured quantities of a variety of selected cultures to produce the effect that you want.

A lot of this comes from analyses of the cultures' by-products (apart from lactic acid fermentation, any number of polypeptides, esters, saccharides and other compounds are produced) combined with lots of experience. Since my cheeses do well by comparison with raw-milk products from overseas, I think I'm probably doing something right, and there's no risk of anyone getting sick.

Every now and then, I get the occasional wanker who insists that a "real" cheese should be redolent of the barnyard. This, to me, is a product that is tainted. Put bluntly, if it smells like shit, chances are it is probably contaminated with shit (or at least, E. coli, which amounts to the same thing). I make a practice of sticking my head into the manhole of the bulk tank and getting a good double-lungful of the aromas from the raw milk. That tells me a lot about how the animals are doing, including what they've been eating, how long since calving, and whether or not there is any hint of contamination.

And the reason growers want them is because consumers want them. I don't see how that issue relates to genetic engineering, that's something altogether different.

I never said it had anything to do with genetic engineering. You did in the post I replied to. Specifically you said I think heirloom growers should embrace GMOs. Then you explained why, to get hybrids "like Cherokee Purple and White Tomesol" stocked in supermarket stores.

Getting people to think of new or diverse crops as a true part of their diet, just like the foods they're accustomed to, it a task in and of itself.

And that is one of the goals of Slow Food. And guess what they say... Pandemic disease and genetic engineering have wiped out all traditional sources of meat (and many vegetable products) in a matter of decades. "Winona LaDuke, founder of the White Earth Land Recovery Project, which was the recipient of the International Slow Food Award for the Defense of Biodiversity in 2003 said, 'Indigenous people are center to Slow Food International,' because the foods they are talking about have long histories, the very foods Slow Food wants to protect."

I follow exotic pomology too, and it took decades for mangos and kiwis to get to where they are now, and still, people don't see them on the same level as apples and bananas.

And how many people eat kiwis and mangos? I used to take them with me for lunch.

Finally, there is no need for GE crops. All they do is enrich the pockets of big agribusinesses.

Tell that to the farmers who's crops were wiped out by papaya ringspot virus before GMO papayas arrived on the scene.

Yea, let's ask farmers about GE:

1. Monsanto versus Farmers
2. Monsanto's Harvest of Fear

This post of mine has 8 more links.

To say there's no need for them, I don't get that either.

I and others, including experts, have said GE is not needed for food because it is not needed. I dare you prove that wrong. Provide one piece of evidence GE is needed. Then we'll see what reviewers say.

FAO report reveals GM crops not needed to feed the world.

That's like saying there is no need for plant breeding.

You like every other person who tries to justify genetic engineering tries this. Selective breeding and crossbreeding is a hell of a lot different than inserting arctic fish genes into tomatoes. The first happens frequently in nature but the second rarely if ever happens.

We know it works, no one has ever produced a shred of credible evidence to suggest they're dangerous

My, my, my. How wrong you are. One example we know of is soya with a gene from Brazil nuts. Identification of A Brazil-Nut Allergen in transgenic soybeans[pdf]. The fact the soya was not released does not change the fact that the engineering soya was dangerous to those allergic to Brazil nuts and could cause their deaths.

considering horizontal gene transfer between unrelated species happens all the time

I thought you might bring that up, and I already addressed

That's true. There is much that can be done more quickly. And I for one won't argue with being able to do my taxes more quickly, or many of other such things.

But I wonder what's been lost. For instance why has the Slow Food movement been so popular for so long. Why do I find blogs about slow painting? Why is there a Take Back Your Time day? As far as I'm concerned there's been a tremendous loss. And of course the poem by Stephen Dobyns in one of the first replies indicates this. We are all hurrying. But for what?

I don't think people, and it certainly seems like this book and this reviewer, slow down enough to say: wait a minute! What's the hurry? What have I just lost by being in such a hurry? What have I gained? How do they balance out?

If the book reviewed talked about that I'd be interested. If it just says speed is inevitable and here are some quick hints for dealing with it then I say no thanks.

Gawd, more fake food. Don't we get that already from McDonalds, Kraft, Budweiser et al? This junk is not good for you and long-term health effects are only partially known.

What really makes me sad is that discussions like this always wave the health argument around, because health is not what this is about. This stuff is bad for you even if it is good: Slow Food is not about Health Food (be sure that Kraft has its departments to cover those consumer demands as well), it is about the culture of food. Apparently even McDonalds opponants cannot see anymore that there is a huge cultural sphere around the food we produce and eat. A cultural sphere that we will discard and that we will not be able to revive if we keep buying big products from big suppliers in big supermarkets, no matter how healthy that food may be.

He, a lot of the food Slow Food promotes is even risky. Raw milk soft cheeses for instance can be infected with Listeria. But, as they said in France when I tried to buy a pasteurized cheese for my pregnant wife: "C'est n'est pas la même chose" - it is not the same thing. You can't eliminate the health risk without killing the product, so as long as the risk is minimal (which it really is), please do keep making and eating it.

Mission

Through its understanding of gastronomy with relation to politics, agriculture and the environment Slow Food has become an active player in agriculture and ecology. Slow Food links pleasure and food with awareness and responsibility. The association's activities seek to defend biodiversity in our food supply, spread the education of taste, and link producers of excellent foods to consumers through events and initiatives.

Defense of Biodiversity
Slow Food believes the enjoyment of excellent foods and wines should be combined with efforts to save the countless traditional cheeses, grains, vegetables, fruits, and animal breeds that are disappearing due to the prevalence of convenience food and agribusiness. Through the Ark of Taste and Presidia projects (supported by the Slow Food Foundation for Biodiversity), the Slow Food Award for Biodiversity and Terra Madre, Slow Food seeks to protect our invaluable food heritage.

Taste Education
In a world where the pleasures of taste are not always learned through leisurely meals around a lively table, we must make a conscious effort to explore, question and experiment. This is the aim of Slow Food's taste education initiatives. Convivia activities introduce new foods to members while Taste Workshops offer guided tastings with food experts. Our youngest eaters benefit from Slow Food in Schools and true gastronomes are trained at the University of Gastronomic Sciences.

Linking Producers and Consumers
Slow Food organizes fairs, events and farmers' markets to showcase products of excellent gastronomic quality. The huge success of the international food festival Salone del Gusto, with its cornucopia of foods to be tasted and bought, supports producers while offering up a world of delights to the public. Other events include Urban Harvest, Cheese, Slow Fish, Deutscher Käsemarkt and Aux Origines du Goût.

rant over. Me, I buy my hand made cakes from the Women's Institute stall in the community centre next door to Tescos.... I can even order my favourite cake a week in advance :-)

The clock for a longer now...

and some slow food to eat while we wait for now to pass us by.

That's what we need.