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TIVO should produce a free version of their PVR software for computers that uses their subscription service. I had the impression that the service was their revenue model, and that they were losing money on the hardware anyway. The money is in the software, with competitors poised to take their leading market position.

Don't know if anyone will see this post as I caught this thread late in the game, but I though I'd share my experiences with using XPlay to access the iPod in Windows.

A good friend of mine got an iPod as a corporate gift (he works for a major market radio station) and gave it to me since he doesn't own a Mac. Now, I don't have a Mac either, but as a tech-head and a digital audio guy I figured I could probably do something with it. I actually did consider getting a new iMac, but I'd heard about XPod (now XPlay) and figured I could check it out if I got a firewire port somehow.

Some background: I have been running Windows XP for about six months now on my homebuilt Athlon PC (T-Bird 1.33). I have been very happy with the performance and stability of XP, but the Turtle Beach Montego II Home Studio sound card I have used for years is only supported under 9x. I could get basic analog audio working by disabling ACPI in the BIOS, but with lousy driver support and no digital I/O, I realized it was time to upgrade.

I thought about getting a semi-pro audio card such as those from Terratec, M-Audio, and Event, but since I also use my PC for games and home theater, I ended up getting the Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum Ex. The last Creative card I had was a SB AWE32 many years ago, and though I wouldn't touch the Live! series (especially since my mobo uses a Via chipset), the Audigy is totally killer. Now, just as posts here have mentioned the possibility of people buying a Mac to complement the iPod, a big part of the reason I picked the Audigy was for the built-in Firewire port.

Okay, time to get to the goods. I downloaded and installed a beta of XPlay and hooked up my virgin iPod. To my surprise, Windows immediately recognized the iPod as an external drive and mapped it through explorer. XPlay seemed to suggest that I should control the iPod primarily through Windows Media Player, but I have generally stayed away from WMP since they introduced v7. I have never been fond of its music library management, especially since it likes to screw with your music files even if you don't want it to--no ID3v2 tags for me, thank you. And the idea that it needs to lock up 30MB of RAM just to play one song is pretty ludicrous. A quick check revealed that WMP8 did indeed see the iPod as a portable device, but I wasn't going to use it to transfer any files.

My mp3 collection is up to about 30GB now (all ripped myself using EAC with LAME), so it was a little difficult to pick out which five gigs of tunes I wanted to take with me. Going through Windows Explorer, I ctrl-clicked the folders of my favorite albums and dragged them into the \Music folder on the mapped iPod drive. Transfer was fast but not blazing, taking about 25 minutes to copy everything over the firewire. Using the Explorer interface meant that no playlists were transferred, but the Artist/Album interface on the iPod is so good that I don't really need them anyway. I suppose that I'm not really using XPlay to its fullest, but at least WMP doesn't muck up my mp3s in the process. I'd love to see plug-in support for the iPod in my player of choice, JRiver's Media Jukebox.

Reactions: While I'm not using any of XPlay's features beyond the support for HFS, I don't really need it to. I'd much rather control things myself anyway, just doing drag 'n drops instead of becoming a slave to the software interface. I also have a first gen Diamond Rio (parallel port connection!) and the original Rio Volt, and the included software has never wowed me enough to use it regularly. Actually, that's why I liked the Volt most of all, since I could just burn my own CD's and be done with it.

The iPod is definitely best of all though--the small size makes it much more convenient for the car or carrying in your pocket, and the rechargeable lithium-ion battery is just awesome. I use it in the car every day (about an hour-round trip) and only have to charge it every other week. The playback interface is the best of any I have seen--very easy to control with one hand and the white backlight works great in the dark. It does seem to skip sometimes, though it seems it's actually blank parts in the mp3 file since it happens in the same part of a song every time. My guess is that there was a blip of some sort during the firewire transfer, since the mp3s play back perfect on the computer.

Overall, XPlay does what it advertises. I can use the iPod on my PC, which would not be possible otherwise. However, there are some other features I'd like to see, such as the ability to upgrade the iPod firmware and synchronization support for programs other than WMP. Combining the huge installed base of the PC/Windows platform with the style and reliabilty of Apple hardware is a winning situation for everyone. I think that MediaFour has done just what Apple had hoped, allowing them to sell more units without getting into the headache of supporting the PC platform. And personally, I am thrilled to be an Apple user again, since my first home computer was a IIGS. Who knows, I still might pick up an iMac after all...

- Leigh

Ah, how I long for the good old days when you could just set a cron job that would mail a spammer a core dump every 10 minutes.

I have to wonder, though, instead of just blocking server, if someone might not develop software that would email back to the orginator of the message (that is, the retailer who created the spam or had it created) and make it very clear that you will not buy his product simply because he spammed you. (Are you listening, SonicBlue? I ain't buying squat from y'all!) Maybe that would get the point across.

Of course, there are always the bozos that break any cartel and loosers that will answer spams with subjects like "View my webcam!!"

Should be

...that there are only about 2 of such things out now, this one listed, and the indash MP3 player with a by SonicBlue [sonicblue.com] which is Linux based, the ...

Should be

...that there are only about 2 of such things out now, this one listed, and the indash MP3 player with a by SonicBlue [sonicblue.com] which is Linux based, the ...

Between the two, I'd pick the hackable Linux one, for several reasons.

It's been around longer.

It's hackable.

There is a community support forum

Looks way cooler

Basically, since the above mentioned review of the Dension DMP3 MP3 doesn't make ANY comparison, it doesn't help 99% of the people in the GENERAL consumer electronics market, because there is no frame of referance at all. Maybe someone could write a useful review comparing the two?

Between the two, I'd pick the hackable Linux one, for several reasons.

It's been around longer.

It's hackable.

There is a community support forum

Looks way cooler

Basically, since the above mentioned review of the Dension DMP3 MP3 doesn't make ANY comparison, it doesn't help 99% of the people in the GENERAL consumer electronics market, because there is no frame of referance at all. Maybe someone could write a useful review comparing the two?

On this page on the Rio Receiver, it says it is "Upgradeable to support future audio formats". Has anyone made one of these work with an Ogg Vorbis codec?

And there are other Digital Rights Management features in Replay 4000 that have NOT yet been reported upon. I'm a Replay 4000 owner, and I can comment on some of these.

SonicBlue licenses Macrovision's technology, which is the same signal-munging technology that keeps VCR's from recording the output of your DVD player.

The interesting part is that a Replay 4000 will let you record a Macrovision-encoded program. I personally tested this by feeding the output of my DVD player into the secondary input on my Replay 4160 as a test. The Replay reproduces the Macrovision signal when outputting the program. This means you can time-shift copy-protected shows, but you cannot dub them out of the Replay onto a VCR!

Also, according to this press release, when a Replay 4000 sees that a show is Macrovision-encoded, it will not allow the user to share this program over the internet.

I think this is a pretty decent compromise between preserving the customer's ability to time-shift programs, and the program-owner's right to control copying of that program on permanent media.

And vis-a-vis the big conglomerates, this is a big change from the early Replay units. I've owned a Replay 2004 for over two years, and those early units would strip the Macrovision encoding from shows you passed through it. Thus they could be used as an intermediary for dubbing DVD's and other protected content to tape.

For this and other reasons I really think the media giants are going to fall on their face in this lawsuit. No judge is going to side with them when its so obvious that SonicBlue has made these efforts to accomodate their interests.

all of these services require a phone line

Then get a ReplayTV 4000. There is no subscription fee, and no modem... it connects to your home network using an ethernet port.

Too bad that it's SonicBlue that makes the ReplayTV... Clicky, clicky

Since SonicBlue announced the ReplayTV 4000, I am sure that content providers are crapping themselves trying to find a way to short-circuit the features of this device. Briefly, the ReplayTV 4000 uses your existing home network and broadband connection to both obtain programming information fromt he ReplayTV servers, as well as enable users to share TV shows both over their local networks and over the Internet. Granted, it could take hours to transmit a single show from your ReplayTV to someone else's across the country, but certainly less time than it would take to ship a video tape.

When ReplayTV was a brand new venture, they started selling units on their own which had built-in FireWire (IEEE 1394) ports on them. The idea was to be able to archive existing program content stored in the DVR onto external media, or to supplement the hard disk already in the DVR. These ports were never activated, apparently under pressure from the entertainment industry which feared rampant piracy. Plans to create DVR devices that took removable media (such as ORB disks, a plan which CastleWood had been discussing openly on their web site) were similarly scrapped by other manufacturers.

Now, it would seem that SonicBlue, which acquired ReplayTV, is making it trivial for people to effectively copy TV shows to their friends. Granted, this system probably doesn't allow anonymous copying, so casual piracy will be reduced (no "Napster-esque" video sharing), but there's nothing preventing someone in one geographic region from sharing a show that is either blocked or unavailable in another geographic region. Pay-per-view for sporting events will suffer if such devices proliferate -- you can easily get around blackout restrictions by having your friend in another area record the game for you.

What I want to know is this: When will we get a good, preferably in-dash, hard drive based MP3 player for the car? You know, it could be done many ways, actually. Any of these companies could easily adapt the power supply for these devices to a standard 12 volts and then make the hard drive portion removable to bring in house and "sync up" via usb/firewire, whatever.

This would preferably also have a CD player in dash that could play regular as well as MP3 cds.

Hell, they could actually create a trunk mounted MP3 unit designed for use in car, similar to car CD changers.

I guess there's the Rio Car, but this is a little pricey a (imho) rather ugly design.

You see all sorts of kits with small computers mounted in trunks hooked up though power inverters, etc. You could also get a cigarette lighter adaptor for any of these jukeboxes. But none of these are eloquent solutions to a problem that really already HAS a solution.

Message To Big Audio Company: I want my entire (400+) CD collection in my dash or trunk in MP3 format. I want large drives (20gigs +). I want it cheap ( $600), I want it pretty. I want it flexible. (Upgrades/Add-ons?) And I want it NOW!

There exists a more informative press release about the Rio Riot. It has a battery life of 10 hours. And apparently it's bundled with iTunes on the Mac. heh...

Of course, USB sucks... But with 20 gigs of storage, how often do you really need to change the music? let it download overnight once, and then maybe you're swapping out an album here and there...

Although what's kinda cool is it supporst MP3 and WMA today, is upgradable to other formats later (someone could potentially hack vorbis support in I'd imagine...) but they also plan to add support for Audible, for people who like to listen to books.

You can buy them directly from the SONICblue Online Store for $499. Here is the catalog page

When is somebody going to get the brilliant idea to make a digital video recorder that does not require a phone line and does not have a monthly fee?

Mine arrived a few weeks ago. It from these guys. Check it out.

this link on CNN has a little more info on what will be "new" for Series2.

look for online games from the Jellyvision, maker of You Don't Know Jack and Smush.

also look for some sort of video on demand by Radiance Technologies Inc.

this is in addition to the Real Networks partnering and the USB support.

not quite the networking capability that i was hoping for but something nonetheless that might be interesting.

Before you go whining about how "it's only a 40Gig hard drive" and "I can build the same damned thing for $19.95 using parts I found under my bed", take some time to look at this thing on their website.

$1500 is a whole lot of cash, but this thing offers a few other features, such as including a "RIO Receiver" in the package, and what looks to be a decent display on it. It also has ReplayTV-like capabilities to recommend music based on your listening habits. It doesn't even appear to be hobbled, since you can rip MP3 with it and transfer them to your PC.

Sadly, it looks like it uses a 56k modem to access CDDB, even though it has a 10mbps connection as well.

Sure, $1500 is a lot. But triple the storage space and drop the price to $1000, and I'm interested (in other words, by next summer I might have one...)

Go to the SonicBlue on-line store and click on the "Rio" link on the navigation bar. It's about 1/2-way down the page. FWIW the version with the PNA support is $199.95.

Here's a link to SonicBlue's press release...

For the average user the $999 price tag is a little steep whe you compare it to an $300 AIWA mp3 cd player.

Look under "Additional Requirements". I believe it already supports a USB keyboard and mouse.
--

I am a Replay Tv owner and also have a relative who works as an engineer at Replay. Replay added the described "feature" in an attempt to raise much-needed money. People complained so they removed it.

As a software developer, I definitely see the advantages to automatic upgrades, especially when the hardware is a closed system. Without automatic upgrades, technical support can become a nightmare, since everyone could have different revs of the firmware, and new versions should fix old problems. Theoretically, the product will improve with age. Automatic upgrades of non-closed systems (i.e. a PC) are not a good thing, since there is a good chance that the upgrade will break user-installed software and/or hardware.

Now both Replay and Tivo are hungry for money. Both companies are losing money. Accordign to Freeedgar, Tivo lost over 200 million dollars, last quarter losing 89 million dollars. Replay has also lost a lot of money, but never went IPO. Replay is currently being acquired by Sonic Blue, formerly Diamond Multimedia and S3.

Since Slashdot rejected the story, not too many people know that SonicBlue also owns empeg. Just imagine what kinds of on demand video and audio products could come out of SonicBlue now...

They also bought Sensory Science.

Interesting indeed.

The press release at Sonicblue's site is here.

The $1199 price for the Empeg is justified by the components, the build quality and the added-value you get from your CD collection. Think about it -- with a 40 Gb upper limit, you can MP3 encode *all* of your collection (and your S.O.'s as well), and play tracks which normally never get heard. Most people with 6xCD changers listen to the same six CDs for weeks before changing, and tend to skip over albums which contain only one or two "good" tracks. With the Empeg, you can choose to sequence _only_ the good tracks, and with the random option, you hear parts of your collection that you'd never normally choose. This represents an economic value-added to your existing CD investments, because you're increasing your utilization by reducing opportunity costs.

Furthermore, I can download free upgrades for my Empeg (firmware and PC loader) anytime. Now that they've been bought by the company that makes the RIO, you can bet that the economies of large-scale manufacturing and improved access to the components market will bring the price down, while adding neat new features. Look for a top model to come out next year for less than $999.

Disclaimer: I have no inside knowledge about the Empeg -- I'm just a satisfied customer.

And a post-script for audiophiles -- the Empeg has some great options for shaping the sound. Here's a quote from their home page:

On the audio side, a Philips in-car DSP deals with the DAC and provides digital loudness, bass, treble, balance and fader for the four outputs. It also gives a 20 band fully parametric equaliser which can be arranged as stereo 10-band or quad 5-band. The final stage is provided by Burr Brown pre-amps.
--
Paul Gillingwater

Since empeg were bought by S3 (SONICblue) it has been announced that the empeg car player will be integrated into the Rio product line. This will fix distribution problems, and hopefully result in an expanded product line.

Rob