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I'm wondering how much overtime the Quicktime team will be putting in to make a codec for all of the RM protected media files. Then QT could save them to disk, allow encoding, transcoding, etc. Apple then sells the encoder for a lower cost than Real, or just gives it away

Streambox tried this, and Real threw the DMCA at them, obtaining an injunction to stop shipping their products that did this. They eventually caved in and made their products Real-friendly and DRM-compliant.

Streambox is pretty much alive: Streambox products

to Streambox and RealNetworks

According to the Upside article, "For its part, Real Networks Inc. (RNWK) submitted written comments arguing that none of its streaming media technologies should be exempted from the anti-circumvention rules. According to Real Networks, its use of technological copyright protection measures has actually made more content available to the public because copyright owners are more inclined to distribute their content over the Internet without fear of widespread piracy. ..This is not the first time Real Networks has sung the praises of the DMCA. Earlier this year, it successfully used the DMCA's 'anti-device' provisions to enjoin Streambox Inc. from distributing the Streambox VCR. According to Real Networks, the Streambox VCR circumvented Real Media's technological protection measures to allow users to record Real Media files."

But according to www.streambox.com ( a press release dated Jan. 18, 2000), the judge actually repealed a restraining order preventing Streambox from selling Streambox Ripper, which "enables consumers and content providers to convert RealNetworks files into Windows Media, MP3 and WAV formats." The statement goes on to ask Real to release the proprietary format on their copy switch so that owners of copyrighted material can choose to use Streambox VCR to turn on the copy switch or not.

It would appear that Streambox would be adversely affected by the form of the DMCA that Real Networks is lobbying for. And it is rather interesting that Microsoft Corp. appears to have invested in Steambox.

Would any Streambox or Microsoft people care to join the protest against the DMCA?

I repeat, it's not only free software people or digital pirates who oppose the DMCA. Most corporations ought to understand that it operates against their interests as well. And every citizen will be affected if media giants can turn all content into "pay-per-view". What do you suppose our kids in school will be viewing on their computers, courtesy of Intel, Microsoft, AOL, Disney, Time-Warner, and the RIAA and their friends?

...the way QT4 now forces this streaming-only policy on you. Same with Windows Media player. It used to be you could watch the file in choppy fashion while it downloads, then save it locally and watch it without skips.

Gone are those days. Now both QT4 and ASF files will only stream live from the site. So if you have a cable modem connection (fast, but goes in bursts) and you want to watch the 300K stream...you can't because it skips the whole time. You can't just download the whole damn file and play it locally. Instead, you have to make do with the 128K stream.

Sick, sick, sick. There used to be a program that could intercept the video information (either from some cache file somewhere or perhaps watching the video buffers?) and reroute it to a local file in your choice of format. This mean that any streaming media (RM, QT, ASF) could be saved locally as whatever you want (namely MPG).

The program was Streambox VCR. I reinstalled Windows for the umpteenth million time last year and discovered that Streambox had been sued by RealMedia and stopped offering their products, including VCR. So no more VCR.

Then, most puzzling of all, three months after winning the lawsuit, there is STILL no Streambox VCR.

Does anyone still have the installer file for this most-valuable tool? Please mirror it or put it in your sig or something. I hate streaming media and plus, as a consumer, my fair use rights are in question. What's the biggest advantage that MPG has over QT, ASF, and RM? The fact that it is the standard for VCDs. Which means it is the ONLY format that I can watch on my spiffy 50"/DSS home entertainment system instead of the crappy 17"/CompUSA speakers computer setup.

Until some company can pressure ISO into declaring a book format based around their QT/ASF/RM formats so I can watch it on a home entertainment player, MPG is all I'm interested in.

- JoeShmoe

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Another thing... how much does it help to have a portable linux? Do you really care what operating system tells you that you have a doctors appointment in an hour?

You can already save your Real Audio with Streambox Ripper so I suppose you can say it has already been 'rev-enged' :)

You can already save your Real Audio with Streambox Ripper so I suppose you can say it has already been 'rev-enged' :)

A big problem with the DMCA is that it goes well beyond copyright. The "anti-circumvention" provisions encourage proprietary content formats. The DMCA has been used against programs that play Playstation content, for example, even though copyright violation was not even alleged. The Streambox Ferret injunction involves a plug-in that modifies RealPlayer to offer a second search engine. (That injunction is based on a "derivative work" theory, which is wierd, because Streambox isn't distributing a modified RealPlayer, just a plug-in for it. That's a bad precedent; a legal bar to modifying legally obtained software.) And we all know about DeCSS.

It's going to get much worse before it gets better. Players (even monitors and speakers) that won't play unauthorized content are the future. The plan is to encode copy-protection information in audio and video in a way that can't be removed, and will survive both compression and conversion to analog. So when protected content hits the final output device (speaker or monitor), Bad Stuff happens. The SDMI crowd originally wanted the first play of protected content on an MP3/SDMI player to cause the MP3 capability to self-destruct, but that's been abandoned for now.

The clear direction is to eventually obtain the kind of hammerlock on video and audio that Nintendo has now on games for its platform. Keep this in mind.

Anyone that was able to grab this before Streambox (www.streambox.com pulled it from the site - supposedly new version coming soon - can capture these and convert them to other video formats.

Can't someone who downloaded the previous version demo send it over to Hemos?

The lawsuit info is here

I'm a longtime user of StreamBox/2Bsys products, and a beta tester for the newest version of StreamVCR.

StreamBox VCR, formerly called X-FileGet, downloads Real content using the proprietary PNM and PNM/G2 protocols, as well as the publicly-available RTSP and Windows Media protocols. It uses no Real code. StreamBox is not the only company to do this. Windows Media Player handles RealAudio streams and files, and Oracle is apparently reverse-engineering Real protocols and formats so they can take advantage of Real's installed base for THEIR media server.

StreamBox Ripper, formerly RA2Wav, uses Real DLLs to read RealAudio files, just like a couple WinAmp plugins and (I believe) Windows Media Player. It allows you to write the output to WAV, WMA or MP3, just as if you were using TotalRecorder or Virtual Audio Cable with RealPlayer.

It's not clear what legal ground Real has to stand on. The legality of "space-shifting" and "time-shifting" licensed content has been defended in court and AFAIK, the programmer didn't disassemble any Real code.

However, it looks like Real is approaching this as a format-control issue, arguing that somehow, software that converts their format to another is illegal. It looks like a questionable lawsuit against a company that can't afford lawyers, meant to set a precedent before Real goes up against Microsoft or Oracle.

The Streambox Press Release may be found here:
http://www.streambox.com/Products/press .asp

SEATTLE - Streambox, Inc. (http://www.streambox.com), a leading provider of proprietary streaming technologies for searching, acquiring, playing and managing audio and video files on and from the Internet, must temporarily halt the development, production and sale of various company products, pending a full hearing January 7, due to a temporary restraining order issued here today, the company has announced.

The restraining order was issued by the U.S. District Court in response to an action filed by RealNetworks (RNWK), which alleged that three products - Streambox Ripper, Streambox VCR and Streambox Ferret - have caused irreparable harm to RealNetworks.

"Their main complaint is that our Streambox Ripper product allows content owners to control file format, not RealNetworks. . But we believe that the larger picture of Real's whole tactic is about preventing migration of digital media files from RealMedia to other platforms, such as Microsoft's Windows Media," said Robert Hildeman, chief executive officer of Streambox. "We think that's unfair to both consumers and content providers." In view of the serious impact of the restraining order with respect to Streambox's business, the court also ordered that Real Networks post a $1 million dollar bond to cover any loss to Streambox if the Court later finds that the restraining order was wrongfully issued.

RealNetworks also alleged in the action that Streambox had violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and copyright infringement.

"I don't understand why they are alleging this when our products and technologies truly benefit the content providers and consumers," Hildeman said.

Hildeman said Streambox plans to release a version of its Streambox Ripper product that does not convert RealNetworks' media format. Streambox Ripper is a powerful utility that converts CD and other audio files to the popular MP3 format, allowing MP3 users to listen to millions of previously unavailable audio files, from music to audiobooks, talk radio, interviews and much more.

With the recent explosion of digital music on the Internet, and with the proliferation of popular portable MP3 players like RCA's Lyra, Diamond's Rio, Creative's Nomad and others, Streambox Ripper stands to play a pivotal role in providing much more audio content than ever before imagined, Hildeman said.

About Streambox:

Streambox is the world leader in the searching, indexing and categorizing of streaming media content on the Internet. The company offers full services in Internet streaming technologies that deliver end-to-end solutions for the searching, playing, acquiring, converting and transporting of streaming audio and video files.

Founded in 1999, Streambox provides Internet users with a powerful media portal, search engine and guide. The company extends its powerful technologies to a family of innovative audio and video software for PCs and other devices.

The combined technologies enable the company's customers to enjoy the fastest-growing segment of the Internet - streaming entertainment and information.

Contacts: Bob Hildeman, Streambox
425-702-9348
bob@streambox.com

Bob Silver, The Silver Company
206-624-0388
bob@thesilvercompany.com

Dunno about your first question, but there's a real audio decoder for windows here..Wish there was a linux or os/2 version, but not yet. I'm using it to convert the hours of slack to mp3s for easy in-car listening when pine's spiffy mp3 cd player is released..

...formerly known as RA2Wav. There is a trial beta here.

Only problem is, it's Win32. Good thing is, RealPlayer G2 for Win32 runs on the latest CVS of WinE, so there's a good chance StreamRipper and its companion, PNM downloader X-FileGet, will run.

Keep an eye on these guys. The upcoming version of StreamRipper does RA to MP3, CD-ripping and other nifty things, and the upcoming version of StreamVCR handles G2 servers, RTSP and some MMS streams.

Hope this helps!