Slashdot Mirror

Forgot to link to the CTA system map.

I have an even better idea than tokens. Make public transportation free

In 2012, the CTA gavea total of 545 million rides. They're spending $450 million to collect fares from 550 million people.

If CTA runs their system like every other public transportation system, the fares are decreasing ridership, fare enforcement creates an adversarial mood on the bus, and fare collection is slowing the bus down significantly. And, public transportation often has the most convoluted fare structure imaginable. Sure, the cash fare is straightforward, but a lot of cities have twenty or more programs for prepaid cards. The next time you're on the bus, look around and realize that every single person on the bus with a pre-paid card probably got the card in a different way for a different price under a different program. There's no reason that local municpal bus fares should be more complicated that airline fares.

Seriously, just make the bus free. Make it more useful for everyone.

I just now hopped over to the CTA website and checked out their budget.

In broad terms, they take in about $650 million from fares, $650 million in public funding (from taxes), and an operating budget of $1.3 billion.

Hypothetically speaking, what would the budget be if they eliminated fares? The budget doesn't break out the expenses in a way to examine this (at least - I couldn't find it), but it would eliminate a big chunk of the expenses. Not only are there turnstyles and fare sellers, but collection and counting of the money, maintenance on the styles and ticket machines, and so on. Even the financial cost of maintaining a bank account and driving the money to the bank for deposit could be eliminated.

On the flip side, a person making $15/hr delayed by waiting in line at the turnstyle or purchasing tokens/tickets loses $0.25 worth of time for each minute of delay. A commuter would lose this much twice a day, and the loss would be more valuable if the commuter made more money.

And this change would benefit poor people the most. It's an efficient way to preferentially give them the benefit of a public service.

It seems like a more efficient method might be to eliminate the fares and increase public support to cover the difference. The net gain in customer time plus eliminating the fare network might be more than the increase in taxes. Just eliminating the fare mechanisms alone might reduce expenses enough to cover the loss of revenue.

Has anyone looked into this?

Chicago already has this for buses and trains.

...located in nearby cities when I go to Chicago. It's called Metra. And in most cases it's a hell of a lot cheaper and convienient. Besides most places worth going to either aren't that far from the stations or you can take a bus or boat to get to them without hiking too far from either major train station.

1. Make solar energy affordable - Done
2. Provide energy from fusion - This is something I don't know anything about.
3. Develop carbon sequestration methods - More information
4. Manage the nitrogen cycle - More information. I feel like on a basic, local level this can already be accomplished easily. On an advanced/global level though... Manage it? In the next 100 years maybe we can gather some data points so we can UNDERSTAND it. Until then, any attempts to "manage" it would be foolish
5. Provide access to clean water - Tried and true method and 1, 2, 3 Orgs doing it.
6. Restore and improve urban infrastructure - And run on-time and build more parks - but who will fund it?
7. Advance health informatics - This "engineering goal" is too general to discuss. It's like, make it easier to get useful data on our health. Duh!
8. Engineer better medicines - I think "Engineer better robots" would be a more worthwhile engineering goal... but that's just me.
9. Reverse-engineer the brain - Teaching it, and studying it
10. Prevent nuclear terror - This is a political bombshell that I won't go near, but from what I see the strategy is (a) deterrence, and (b) threaten anybody with a nuclear project.
11. Secure cyberspace - Ha!
12. Enhance virtual reality - In a practical way or just enough so that my brain can be tricked into thinking that an incredibly hot women is going down on me?
13. Advance personalized learning - Not sure what this is...
14. Engineer the tools for scientific discovery - Another overly general one, but I'd like to think "discovery" is a misspelling of "exploration". Lately I've been thinking that our satellites are similar to the Triremes of Greece times (which are bound to stay close to our shores), the Apollo/Space Shuttle is like Viking ships (which couldn't (or weren't) be used to setup a new settlement), and then this would be the equivalent of the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria (except they will be called Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and Lincoln).

I am going to be fair... this is really a list of things that can be completed in the next 25 years. These are not "100 year" goals. They are simply to generalized, for the most part. A real engineer knows that goals should be Specific, Measurable, and ARTistic. These goals don't qualify.

...I just don't see the need for this system. When essential public services like the CTA can't get the funding they need, why is money being spent on these damn cameras?

At first the cameras were deployed in the "bad" areas of town. Along streets like Roosevelt where the area was not developed, where public housing was available and where open air drug markets were allowed to operate. Then cameras started springing up at major intersections and now I'm starting to see these surveillance cameras in very affluent neighborhoods. I am definitely starting to get the feeling that our movements are being more closely tracked and recorded as each day goes by. For example, the CTA has been pushing people to register for the Chicago Plus Card which allows their travel on the public transit system to be recorded and monitored. The State of Illinois has been pushing people to register for the I-Pass tolling system which allows their travel on the Illinois highway system to be recorded and monitored.

I grew up in a small town near Peoria, Illinois, moved to Chicago for college and have now lived in the city for just over eleven years. I used to catch the el across from the Rockwell Gardens projects and I can honestly say that I feel completely safe walking around most areas of the city at any time of day or night. Public safety seems to be a dubious reason for the cameras; people generally don't fsck with you unless there's a reason.

I suspect that these cameras are going to be used to monitor certain neighborhoods, groups of people (blacks, hispanics, peace activists) and to make it easier to issue citations for things like jaywalking, speeding, illegal parking, etc. I just don't see them as being effective at deterring violent crime. How is it in my best interests for city officials to be able to track my movements from home to work and back again? If you want to hire more police officers, fantastic, but I have a problem when you want to record my movements in public for later analysis.

I hate to say it, but I think the surveillance state has already come to Chicago. How long will it take for the police state to follow?

Midwest "cities" tend to be more car-oriented.

Midwesterner here... thanks for the "cities" slam. (Not really...)

Ever been to Chicago? http://www.transitchicago.com/
Even been to Los Angeles? It's as car-oriented as can be.
Ever been to Seattle? Not-so-stellar public transit there, too.

Insecure coastal types (and their ridiculous generalizations) are always good for a few laughs.

I see nothing wrong with the subway going out of business because somebody invents a faster and more comfortable bus. I do see a giant problem with the subway going out of business because massive numbers of people decide that using fake tokens or jumping the turnstile is morally ok because the subway pollutes, is occasionally late, and is a giant impersonal organization that pays its drivers only a relatively small percentage of its total revenue.

Funny you should use that analogy. The Chicago Transit Authority just started a massive reconstruction of a number of its elevated light-rail platforms, which requires taking 25% of its busiest trackage out of service during rush hour. This is a system which was mostly constructed in the early 1900s, and for the last couple of decades has specialized in raising fares, cutting service, alienating riders, and whining to the state and federal governments for more money to provide less service. The money they HAD been getting clearly doesn't go for maintenance, with much of the CTA rail system being "slow-zoned" due to substandard tracks and ongoing track repairs.

Ironically, the CTA is telling its clientele to leave for work early, expect to arrive late, and whenever possible, don't take the CTA.

You might not see the subway going out of business because of fare-beaters... but I could very well see them going out of business for providing rancid, unfriendly, slow and artificially expensive service, with many commuters (myself included) abandoning the CTA entirely in favor of other available mass transit.

P.S. - CTA President Frank Kruesi deserves to be fired.

The Chicago Transit authority has had an online trip planner for quite some time that does this. Although I suppose having one common one that could get you from someplace in Chicago to someplace in New York would be pretty cool.

Only about 20% of Chicago's transit system is underground, so it's not a big deal. I just happen to enjoy the sounds of the rails and nothing else.

We've been conductorless for as long as I can remember, and almost as long as my parents can remember -- just a motorman at the lead car. So maybe since the days of the tokens, or 1978.

Prior to 2000, the motorman had a microphone into which he announced, "Doors closing." (He or she still does that sometimes at busy stops.) Around 2000, the CTA implemented a computerized voice-over-speaker system to announce this stop, and the next stop, and when the doors were closing (along with a friendly chime), which comes in handy for out-of-towners. The doors must be closed for the train to move. The conductor must verify the doors are closed and no one is stuck before moving the train. If all else fails, above the doors on the inside, there's an "emergency release" that people on the inside sometimes use to get out in case they're about to miss their stop and the train hasn't moved yet.

I'm sure it's not as extravagant as Tokyo, or as overengineered as some other solutions I've read in this thread, but it works well for the 200,000 passengers that use it every day.

Unfortunately, what you just described is all too common with public construction projects. Chicago is about to spend half a billion dollars just to renovate the Brown Line. Somehow I think a privatized subway system would get it done for less. A LOT less.

I have a cell phone that serves me rather well, but it doesn't do much good if i forget it at home. I needed to get in touch with somebody while I was wandering around downtown Chicago and was looking for a payphone. After trying several L stations and finding the payphones there either behind the revolving gates (and not wanting to pay $1.50 just to use the phone) or not working, I ended up wandering to the one place that I knew had phones.

Would have been nice to find one on a street corner or something