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Intel Plans Linux/Mozilla Web Appliance

Quite a number of people have been writing about the latest Web appliance. Intel is unveiling a Linux/Mozilla box at CES that will run a Celeron processor. Intel is planning pricing to be between $300 and $700, with some upgradability. More technical details will be forthcoming, but one of the interesting parts is that they plan to include a phone in the device, perhaps hoping to replace phones around the house.

22 of 91 comments (clear)

  1. Mozilla is not dead then. by Rob+the+Roadie · · Score: 2

    Following recent discussions on /. about the apparent perceived demise of the Mozilla project, this is a much needed 'shot in the arm' for the project team.

    1. Re:Mozilla is not dead then. by scumdamn · · Score: 2

      this may be the only way for Mozilla to survive. Having some heavyweight put behind it Like AOL?

    2. Re:Mozilla is not dead then. by MattyT · · Score: 2

      The perception of the Mozilla project of the average slashdot poster is really quite irrelevant.

      Mozilla goes on regardless, and it will succeed regardless.

  2. Re:Very good by blane.bramble · · Score: 2

    What other OS would you propose then? Linux has all the required services and hardware support already, and no licensing costs. No development costs. Does that explain why?

  3. Re:Very good by Forgette · · Score: 3

    Even though I'm a linux newbie (so someone please correct me if I'm wrong) but with using linux they would not have to pay a licensing fee for an os (i.e. M$). Also I would guess that they could build a kernal that would be pretty darn small to run the apps that they need (read no code bloated os taking up tons of disk space), AND also have it be an open source so that they could modify the os to suit their needs. To me it is not jumping on a bandwagon but a smart business AND development decision.

  4. Ho Hum by DragoonAK · · Score: 4
    While it's nice to see Linux in another device, I wonder how successful it's going to be. It sure better be at the low end of that $300-$700 price range. Kick in that monthly cost, which I'm assuming must be a combined ISP/phone bill, and it starts to get expensive while still reasonable. The only problem is, anyone willing to put out $300 for a Internet device might as well buy one of those bargain basement PCs and get the added use of applications and games.

    Who knows? They might get clever with the phone combination - perhaps being able to talk on the phone while still online at a lower speed? That would be handy for those of us with one phone line. Or perhaps they could integrate online games into the base unit. But I still feel that unless a company can offer a Web gizmo that's radically different from a PC or well below $200, PCs will continue to be the surfing platform of choice.

    1. Re:Ho Hum by aunitt · · Score: 2

      But this could make sense if priced in a similar way to mobile phones - i.e. use the monthly revenue to subsidise the cost of the device itself.

      Say $50 to get the device and you're committed to paying $20-30 a month for a minimum of twelve months for net access.

  5. Re:Very good by Raindeer · · Score: 2

    Yes, Linux does seem like a good choice. If you compare it with Windows CE, it is alot smaller and not as heavy on memory. (compare windows CE devices and Palm OS devices.) Linux also allows for alot of tweaking by Intel. I bet they are going to idiot proof these appliances and on top of that make sure that they do not become a too big threat for the PC market.

  6. Imagine applying mods/plug-ins to the phone! by dustpuppy · · Score: 3
    With the web applicance running Linux/Mozilla, I assume that eventually some smart cookie will write mods/skins/plug-ins for it.

    Image the possibilities of being able to adjust/add/complement the features of appliances around your home!

    Don't like the phone ring tone? Want to disguise your voice? Want to sound like you have company in the background? Want the phone to perform stress analysis on the caller (lie detector)? Add and change the features on your phone to your hearts content in the future with Open Source Applicances!

    I can't wait!

  7. Crossing Markets? by sufi · · Score: 3

    This is presumably intels attempt at cementing their foothold in the current iMac/WebTV and other cheap internet access markets.

    It sounds like a bit of a prospective investment, reactions will be gauged and to be honest I can't see it taking off that well, but it's interesting to see none the less.

    Intel are in a threatened situation, more and more home users are turning to TV top boxes and cheaper alternatives to PCs for net access, maybe this is intels answer?

    Just a thought.

    1. Re:Crossing Markets? by scrutty · · Score: 2
      Or maybe they've just realised they aren't likely to get any further share in the competetive low cost CPU market and are desparately trying to dump all those Celerons they don't think they can shift...

      Until hardware hackers everywhere turn on to these

      I thought Intel said they would be using StrongARM for their appliance devices a while back ?

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  8. This could be the next breakthrough device by substrate · · Score: 4

    This could be a really useful device, ground breaking even, the first true internet appliance. If Intel is good at marketing (and they are) they'll aim these squarely at the segment of the population who doesn't really need or want a computer but who may be convinced of the utility of browsing the web.

    Consider that a couple years ago I bought my dad (73 years old now) a computer. It was a Macintosh and despite my worries its probably the most used gift he's ever received. He writes email, browses the web and plays a few games. He's even managed to use google to find stuff I've written and other things he finds interesting. I'm actually pretty impressed seeing as this was his first exposure to a computer.

    My mom on the other hand has no real desire to use it. I've shown her a few things which interest her but she can't overcome the concept that she'd be "a computer user". I bet I could buy her one of these though and she'd use it a lot. It's got a regular phone so it is fine in the kitchen or whatever it is you call the area where we typically have dinner. If by default (or through a single click) it hooked up to the Searchable Online Archive of Recipes she'd use it a lot. Add in some more links for other interests (quilting or needle point or whatever) and she'd use it even more.

    Eventually I'm sure she'd outgrow it and start using my dad's computer. That's fine. In a lot of cases despite this device being sold in a garage sale for 10 bucks within a year its still a win for Intel. They buy a new computer with... an Intel processor.

    I don't see this as a big win for Linux. My mom (or my dad) isn't going to run and buy an Intel box to run Linux on. Sorry, Linux just isn't applicable here at this point in time. Linux just enabled Intel to sell these boxes at a really low price point.

    1. Re:This could be the next breakthrough device by blane.bramble · · Score: 2

      It's not really a consumer win for Linux, but it is an important possible foothold. I'll explain:

      Two of the most common arguments against Linux are 1) it has no major applications for it, and 2) it is not used anywhere 'seriously'

      If the Intel box takes off, this is a fairly important embedded use (if you don't think embedded usage is important, Motorola makes vast profits from embedded sales, and whilst it may not be now [I haven't checked for a few years], it was bigger than Intel, despite not controlling the CPU market). It also establishes Linux as a consumer OS, and after all, that is what makes Windows 9x so successful. Plenty of people don't really know the ins and outs of Windows, but they know they have it, they know they use it. They buy software and hardware because it's "Windows compatible". If your mum or dad is happy with their "Lintel" box, maybe they will buy a computer that "is compatible" with it if they want to upgrade...

      If the devices take off big time then applications could follow: if everyone has ADSL to their home, shared between different devices (the PC, the Intel box etc.) and the device is cheap enough, why not have several of them, the kitchen, the bedroom, etc. People watch TV in bed, why not be able to browse in bed? Now, there are millions of these, maybe 25% of homes have them, maybe more. Is this a market for applications? Quite possibly. End of argument 1 above

    2. Re:This could be the next breakthrough device by RayChuang · · Score: 2

      Actually, I agree 100%!

      About time that Intel figured out what to do with that Red Hat Software investment. A "Net appliance" running a smaller version of Red Hat Linux 6.1 and Netscape Communicator 5.0 (based on Mozilla M12 technology) will be just the thing for people who aren't so computer-literate to get onto the Internet.

      Now, if Intel can put in a 10/100Base-T Ethernet connection so you can plug in broadband Internet boxes for ADSL or cable modems and you're all set! The addition of a couple of USB ports means the "Net appliance" can also hook up to printers, keyboards, and mouse pointers also.

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  9. MS was on intel's bad side for some time now.. by eshefer · · Score: 5

    Intel has been pissed at microsoft for years now. MS have been VERY slow in implementing diferant intel technologies, and as a result intel started looking at alternative OS's for some time. The best example of Intels annoyance at microsoft is the slow adoption of task switching (386 and higher I think) the chips intruduced in 1985 which had task switching didn't get a MS operating system until 1995. Another good example is MS slow adoption of USB. Although win95 versions (from OSR2.5) did include USB support, MS didn't do nothing to addvertize that fact to end users. They tryed to change that in win98 (3 years after the standard was finalized..). Intel is interested in getting people to buy intel chips. Not helping Microsoft. Intel has realized that a lot of high performance intel chips are going into machines that act as servers running linux and BSD and thouse comunities react much faster to improvments and changes that intel adds to their proccessors.
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    1. Re:MS was on intel's bad side for some time now.. by PD · · Score: 2

      And you forgot another important item:

      Linux is processor agnostic. Intel puts millions of transistors on every chip for nothing more than support of a legacy OS. Microsoft only really supports X86 hardware, and all those old programs out there only run on something that looks like an 8086 chip. Intel spends a lot of money and time for legacy support.

      If Linux was dominant, then Intel could throw out the 8086 garbage, streamline their processors, save a bunch of silicon, and improve their processors more quickly.

      The Linux team would just port to the new chip in a couple weeks, recompile everything, end of story. Even if nobody in the Linux world wanted to support the new chip, Intel could make their own distribution. Paying someone to recompile and port the entire Linux system to a new chip has got to be much cheaper than putting 10 million transistors on a chip to support legacy instruction sets.

    2. Re:MS was on intel's bad side for some time now.. by IntlHarvester · · Score: 2

      It seems like you got it in reverse here -- being "processor agnostic" is probably not huge feature over at Intel. Like Microsoft, they owe a huge chunk of their market to backwards compatibilty concerns, and are more than happy to engineer around them. What you call "8086 garbage" is Intel's ace in the hole. (Notice how Compaq markets the Alpha at Linux users and not Windows users.)

      Which is not to say that Intel doesn't like Linux. It gets their CPUs into markets that were once exclusively owned by workstation RISC chips, and in this case gets them into an embedded situation that they might not have been in a few years ago.

      However, Intel knows that they need to provide a better product to keep the Linux users on their platform. To that end they are paying to improve gcc's performance on IA32 and running a project to ensure that Linux/IA64 ships when the chips do.

      However, they are also pulling quite a few political strings, like buying big chunks of influential Linux companies like RedHat/Cgynus and VALinux. This will ensure that the distribution end of the Linux, Inc. is firmly wedded to Intel, and they will remain the better supported platform.
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    3. Re:MS was on intel's bad side for some time now.. by eshefer · · Score: 2

      I agree.

      I remember an Intel exec (can't remember if it was Grove or Barret) saying a few years ago that if the code that suposed to emulate X86 code in merced will not work good enough - they would simply build a X86 along side merced (in the same die) and ship that...
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  10. Actually... by Millennium · · Score: 2

    If I remember correctly, the patents on RSA are set to expire soon. This removes one barrier: more crypto can then be legally Open-Sourced.

    The next problem comes with crypto restrictions. My guess is, either Mozilla will have to get a permit or we'll have to wait for the crypto source export restrictions to be lifted. Alternatively, a module could be developed overseas which plugs into Mozilla (will Mozilla be able to work with plug-ins, by the way?).

    I agree; crypto is absolutely vital for a Web appliance. If Mozilla (or some version thereof) doesn't end up with crypto of some kind, then there's no way I could recommend it for this type of machine.

  11. from the but-can-you-overclock-it dept. by LocalYokel · · Score: 2

    If these are going to be used as phones, why not overclock the processor to 900MHz (or 2.4 GHz!) to match the frequency of cordless phones?

    This would settle those occasional comments about CPU frequency interfering with radio frequency and vice versa, since they don't.

    AnandTech, Sharky Extreme, Adrenaline Vault, and Ars Technica seem to have screenshots of a new overclocking record every week or two. I believe it currently stands at ~1300MHz -- is 2.4GHz unreasonable to think?

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  12. Re:Very good by LocalYokel · · Score: 2

    Right, but BSD's licensing terms would suit them that much better -- in fact, other packaged products built/sold by Intel do use BSD.

    Here's a /. story about it from last week.

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  13. It's free, as in beer. No licensing == more profit by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2

    That's what it says in the article.

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