unless they have teams working on android compatability NOW, they'll be dead.
it will take them more then a year to ship a Winmo7 based product. how long do you think it will take them to ship an android product? where do you think HTC, Motorola and the rest of the gang will be by the time they ship and android version. (and we're talking about AT LEAST two years from now. how much cash will they have by then?
if winmo7 fails - they're dead. If the Winmo7 strategy works, everyone will go tho winmo7 and gut them. then they'll be dead.
Nokia's ex-CEO said something about wsitching to android is like peeing yourself in winter time for warmth. all I see when I look at Nokia is a giant puddle, and the urin wasn't even warm to begin with.
sure they can. they can do it if they finance it, IE take loans, IE get into debt. and it's not impossible: they can return that debt within a year of two. we are talking about a company that profits a few billion EACH quarter.
smart-phones isn't a "market" per se. it's a type of cellular device. that device is marketed to certain types of people and institutions that constitute the markets it is targeting. Most smartphones are marketed to enterprise customers (IE - the people who end up using them don't actually pay for the devices) or to technical users (power-users/early adopters/geeks markets). what I meant by consumer markets is that the person, who's usually a layman - non-technical user, goes to the shop/online store and buys the thing will end up using it. very different markets.
you, for some odd reason, confuse the class of devices known as "smartphones" (phones that have email, browsers and other apps that go beyond the typical cellphone spec, on a platform that has an SDK) with their markets.
"But you just said it wasn't targeting the smartphone market, so why are you comparing iPhone sales with smartphone sales?"
I'm not. you did. my point was that the iphone isn't marketed to the same market most smartphones are marketed to - and the sales figures show that this is not a bad strategic move.
- "let me give you a clue: it will be the the mobile platform with the most developers. by far. from the get go - all indy mac devs will be on that API as soon as it is released. Others will follow." - "I won't hold my breath - Symbian, PalmOS, etc. may be crap platforms, but they do have a hell of a lot of developers."
so what. in the end what matters to most developers is the size of the target market (in this case ipod touch and iphone owners) - the iphone is out for less then 6 months and THAT is why that 30% statistic I mentioned earlier matters.
"I'm afraid I won't be buying an iPhone - it's far too expensive, massively lacks most of the features I need from a phone..."
sure. thats you prerogative
"...and Apple have repeatedly shown that they are more interested in locking devices down and trying to control the whole market rather than allowing their customers to fully utilise what they have spent their money on. Just because they have decided that they need to produce an open API *now* doesn't negate their actions in the past and doesn't promise a great future."
we'll need to wait and see what apples policy regarding iphone (and ipod touch) developer SDK agreements look like. apple is not a open source company (niether are palm, symbian and winmo, btw). We'll need to wait and see. It's true that up to this point the iphone was locked (officially) so was the ipod. but apple has made other platforms that have had vibrant 3rd party comunities (I heard there's this macos thing, you may have heard of it too).
we'll just have to wait and see if the dev-landscape for iphone-touch looks like the ipod or more like the mac.. in february we will know (and we might actually know already next week)
"but what's the good in a nice UI if the phone is lacking the the features the target market needs?"
first, it's NOT targeting the smart-phone market, it's targeting the consumer market. BIG DIFFERENCE.
not that it matters now anyway. last I heard it had a 30% of the smartphones sold in the US in the last few months, and has out sold ALL win-mobile based phones combined in that time frame. aparantly it's not doing too bad.
it is an open ended device in that it's easly upgradable by apple, at the moment. What's going to happen when the API is released (this february)? let me give you a clue: it will be the the mobile platform with the most developers. by far. from the get go - all indy mac devs will be on that API as soon as it is released. Others will follow.
"I'm not sure how you think Occam's Razor applies here. It's nothing to do with 'simplest solution that fits the facts' because we have two equally simple solutions - either Lyons is lying or Jobs is. The rest of the story unfolds from there."
oh.. so a faketard blogger with a book comming out lying to get some interest seems in the same league as a fortune 500 company CEO taking the time to lie about this...
A. I tried, but at first they ignored me and then when I persisted I was told that EFF doesn't appreciate some of the shit I've said about them in the past, because I've been pretty critical of them. I said okay, maybe you don't like what I've written about you, but surely you'll defend my right to say it, won't you? Their response: "We only help people we like. Good luck." Click. Dial tone."
basically, the fact that apple will unveil a 3g iphone is (and was) obvious - with or without that att dude blabbing about it.
the people who'd care about the existence of a higher network tech iphone have either bought an iphone already or they haven't and won't get a 2.5 iphone, anyway.
he also didn't say when next year. "next year" is a pretty long time frame.
I'm glad to see someone modded this up to funny after someone without humor modded it down to troll. if I had moderation points now - I'd moderate it informative* as well.
the develpment costs, the distribution doesn't (almost) - software that is shipping and is in apple's store is software that apple losses 0$ on by offering this rebate.
"Apple didn't realise first adopters would be that fucked off "
could be. it was just such a smart move, I found it hard to believe it was a mistake. On second thought, I think you are probably right. I also agree that a different company wouldn't have made a move like this, definetly not respond THIS fast.
"the _still_ get to keep $100 of the early adopter tax."
no. they keep much more. MUCH more. and they might even gain from this move.
if people use that money to but a apple hardware product, apple loses very little, aspecially if goes towards an expensive product (like a laptop or an imac) - they will loose money only if it's a ipod, specificly an ipod shuffle or the low end nano.
if people use that money to buy apple software (like ilife, iwork or Mac osX leopard, when it comes out) - apple wont loose anything but the shipping and packaging costs (which are negliagble).
if people use it to buy songs from itunes (if that is possible at all, I'm not sure itunes and the apple online store are the same system, is it?)
apple will loose arround 50$ per user - this means they pocket the difference - which is 150$ - and that's the WORST case scenario for apple, as I see it.
The MS thingy looks like a cross between The MIT's media lab Sensetable configuration and Jeff Hans gesture interaction software. Apart for the table reacting to the wifi products (specificly the camera) I didn't see anything that wasn;t copied from someone else there.
Slashdot Mirror
he was NOT a patent troll, since he BUILT the stuff he patented.
I'd would agree that he was a patent asshole, though.
"It's forcing us to redo all of our work."
no it doesn't. FCP7 still works.
right now, their ruling party is islamic, and they are eroding the secular nature turkey. it's just a matter of time.
I agree. I didn't said they should go android now. they should have got a time machine and set it to 2008.
have you ever tried jumping on a moving train?
unless they have teams working on android compatability NOW, they'll be dead.
it will take them more then a year to ship a Winmo7 based product. how long do you think it will take them to ship an android product? where do you think HTC, Motorola and the rest of the gang will be by the time they ship and android version. (and we're talking about AT LEAST two years from now. how much cash will they have by then?
i
yeah.
from a buisness POV this makes even less sense.
if winmo7 fails - they're dead.
If the Winmo7 strategy works, everyone will go tho winmo7 and gut them. then they'll be dead.
Nokia's ex-CEO said something about wsitching to android is like peeing yourself in winter time for warmth. all I see when I look at Nokia is a giant puddle, and the urin wasn't even warm to begin with.
brief summery of the text:
"I, for one, welcome our new redmondian overlords. You should too"
if you RTFA you'll see that they said "at least 40$ per share". it's not a denial it's bargaining.
what they are doing is EXACTLY in the interests of their shareholders. if MS really wants then that bad they'll have to pay more.
sure they can. they can do it if they finance it, IE take loans, IE get into debt. and it's not impossible: they can return that debt within a year of two. we are talking about a company that profits a few billion EACH quarter.
"Microsoft says they learned from their mistakes"
they always do. that's why they repeat them so well.
"That only applies to commercial developers - non-commercial developers don't care how big the market is - they are writing stuff that _they_ want."
so what.
Ah. we seem to differ on what a "market" is.
smart-phones isn't a "market" per se. it's a type of cellular device. that device is marketed to certain types of people and institutions that constitute the markets it is targeting. Most smartphones are marketed to enterprise customers (IE - the people who end up using them don't actually pay for the devices) or to technical users (power-users/early adopters/geeks markets).
what I meant by consumer markets is that the person, who's usually a layman - non-technical user, goes to the shop/online store and buys the thing will end up using it. very different markets.
you, for some odd reason, confuse the class of devices known as "smartphones" (phones that have email, browsers and other apps that go beyond the typical cellphone spec, on a platform that has an SDK) with their markets.
"But you just said it wasn't targeting the smartphone market, so why are you comparing iPhone sales with smartphone sales?"
I'm not. you did. my point was that the iphone isn't marketed to the same market most smartphones are marketed to - and the sales figures show that this is not a bad strategic move.
- "let me give you a clue: it will be the the mobile platform with the most developers. by far. from the get go - all indy mac devs will be on that API as soon as it is released. Others will follow."
- "I won't hold my breath - Symbian, PalmOS, etc. may be crap platforms, but they do have a hell of a lot of developers."
so what. in the end what matters to most developers is the size of the target market (in this case ipod touch and iphone owners) - the iphone is out for less then 6 months and THAT is why that 30% statistic I mentioned earlier matters.
"I'm afraid I won't be buying an iPhone - it's far too expensive, massively lacks most of the features I need from a phone..."
sure. thats you prerogative
"...and Apple have repeatedly shown that they are more interested in locking devices down and trying to control the whole market rather than allowing their customers to fully utilise what they have spent their money on. Just because they have decided that they need to produce an open API *now* doesn't negate their actions in the past and doesn't promise a great future."
we'll need to wait and see what apples policy regarding iphone (and ipod touch) developer SDK agreements look like. apple is not a open source company (niether are palm, symbian and winmo, btw). We'll need to wait and see. It's true that up to this point the iphone was locked (officially) so was the ipod. but apple has made other platforms that have had vibrant 3rd party comunities (I heard there's this macos thing, you may have heard of it too).
we'll just have to wait and see if the dev-landscape for iphone-touch looks like the ipod or more like the mac.. in february we will know (and we might actually know already next week)
"but what's the good in a nice UI if the phone is lacking the the features the target market needs?"
first, it's NOT targeting the smart-phone market, it's targeting the consumer market. BIG DIFFERENCE.
not that it matters now anyway. last I heard it had a 30% of the smartphones sold in the US in the last few months, and has out sold ALL win-mobile based phones combined in that time frame. aparantly it's not doing too bad.
it is an open ended device in that it's easly upgradable by apple, at the moment. What's going to happen when the API is released (this february)? let me give you a clue: it will be the the mobile platform with the most developers. by far. from the get go - all indy mac devs will be on that API as soon as it is released. Others will follow.
"If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and I'll be the first person to stand up and say it."
well... you were wrong.
I'm not holding my breath for you to stand up, though.
"I'm not sure how you think Occam's Razor applies here. It's nothing to do with 'simplest solution that fits the facts' because we have two equally simple solutions - either Lyons is lying or Jobs is. The rest of the story unfolds from there."
oh.. so a faketard blogger with a book comming out lying to get some interest seems in the same league as a fortune 500 company CEO taking the time to lie about this...
OK. fair enough. How about this comment about FSJ approaching the EFF for legal advice:
"Q. "You should get EFF to represent you."
A. I tried, but at first they ignored me and then when I persisted I was told that EFF doesn't appreciate some of the shit I've said about them in the past, because I've been pretty critical of them. I said okay, maybe you don't like what I've written about you, but surely you'll defend my right to say it, won't you? Their response: "We only help people we like. Good luck." Click. Dial tone."
ahha. and that definetly makes sense, right?
basically, the fact that apple will unveil a 3g iphone is (and was) obvious - with or without that att dude blabbing about it.
the people who'd care about the existence of a higher network tech iphone have either bought an iphone already or they haven't and won't get a 2.5 iphone, anyway.
he also didn't say when next year. "next year" is a pretty long time frame.
your signature is correct, sir.
best comment on slashdot. evar.
I'm glad to see someone modded this up to funny after someone without humor modded it down to troll. if I had moderation points now - I'd moderate it informative* as well.
* I kid! I kid!
to quote BillG at the joint interview at all things digital this year: "steve is well known for his restraint".
googl is im u'r inbux, reedin u'r mailz.
"Just being bitchy (I'm back from the pub)"
nah. I think we, basicly, have the same view.
but software doesn't cost $0 as you imply."
the develpment costs, the distribution doesn't (almost) - software that is shipping and is in apple's store is software that apple losses 0$ on by offering this rebate.
"Apple didn't realise first adopters would be that fucked off "
could be. it was just such a smart move, I found it hard to believe it was a mistake. On second thought, I think you are probably right.
I also agree that a different company wouldn't have made a move like this, definetly not respond THIS fast.
"the _still_ get to keep $100 of the early adopter tax."
no. they keep much more. MUCH more. and they might even gain from this move.
if people use that money to but a apple hardware product, apple loses very little, aspecially if goes towards an expensive product (like a laptop or an imac) - they will loose money only if it's a ipod, specificly an ipod shuffle or the low end nano.
if people use that money to buy apple software (like ilife, iwork or Mac osX leopard, when it comes out) - apple wont loose anything but the shipping and packaging costs (which are negliagble).
if people use it to buy songs from itunes (if that is possible at all, I'm not sure itunes and the apple online store are the same system, is it?)
apple will loose arround 50$ per user - this means they pocket the difference - which is 150$ - and that's the WORST case scenario for apple, as I see it.
brilliant PR move, brilliant marketing move. pretty sharp.
plus: it gets people into the apple online store that might not have had that expirience before. to BUY something.
the ipod touch has BT? I didn't see that mentuned anywhere.
actually...
The MS thingy looks like a cross between The MIT's media lab Sensetable configuration and Jeff Hans gesture interaction software. Apart for the table reacting to the wifi products (specificly the camera) I didn't see anything that wasn;t copied from someone else there.
"There have been hundreds of stories here over the years meant to mobilize the community (ie. Blender). I ask, why not this one?"
becoase blender is free software software project. and this tux500 thing is about racing a car at the indy500 with a logo.
"Fortunately the good will of the tux500 team seems to be allowing the logo to still be on the car. I guess they are better people than you"
Fortunately for whom?
people know what linux is. think. who would have even cared about another indy500 team, unless they had the cute "linux logo" angle to feed the press?