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Mike Shaver Moves to Zero-Knowledge

Mike Shaver, who recently left the Netscape/AOL conglomerate, has apparently landed a job with Montreal-based Zero Knowledge. The press release has more details, but it appears that Zero Knowledge is privacy company which promises the ability to post, browse and all those good things anonyomously. Mike will be their Chief Software Officer, while continuing to work on Mozilla as time permits.

21 of 90 comments (clear)

  1. An (albeit old) article on zero knowlege systems.. by / · · Score: 4

    can be found here. The interesting part is this:

    The Zero-Knowledge software works using three servers, located at leased sites in scattered locations worldwide. Client software encrypts Internet access requests and information using three layers of public-key encryption software. Each of the three servers only knows part of the information needed to identify a user and the contents of an Internet session. Even Zero-Knowledge itself doesn't know the identity of the owner of particular pseudonyms, so it can't divulge that information if subpoenaed.

    Of course implementation is everything, but I'm all in favor of any step towards ubiquitous encryption and pervasive privacy.

    --
    "If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
  2. Interesting news order by Paolo · · Score: 3

    Right below you have Mozilla getting PKI source, and then you have an ex-Mozilla going to Zero Knowledge. Why is this significant? ZK is the maker of the aptly named "Freedom" (from privacy invasion) software, which acts as a very interesting model of secure internet access. White papers are here, and they've truly redefined (or is it defined) a new model for providing inet access privacy. I wonder if Mike Shaver's old ties at Netscape/AOL would help in the distribution of Freedom...

    --
    "In individuals, insanity is rare, but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule." -Nietzsche
  3. Freedom is cool, but Win9x only for now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2
    ZKS is a cool setup, and they seem to be doing their cryptography right. Their site has papers detailing all their security weaknesses, and they invite evaluation by cryptographers. Unfortunately it depends on client software that is currently available only on Win95/98. Personally I've emailed them asking that they at least make it available soon on NT--nothing like putting high-security crypto stuff on the world's least secure OS!

    But if you are on Win9x, Freedom is great--fully anonymous surfing, email, telnet, whatever. With the paid version ($50) you can set up five "nyms," which each store their own set of cookies. You can use different nyms for different purposes, accept all the cookies and don't worry about it, no one will have any idea who you are. There is even an option to pay by anonymous money order.

    1. Re:Freedom is cool, but Win9x only for now by jbrw · · Score: 2

      According to this article at news.com, this is the start of them open-sourcing their software.

      Which makes sense - make it open so people can check the security. Other people can do the work of porting it to numourous wierd and wonderful platforms. They still make revenue because they're providing a service (including to users of unoffical, say, Linux ports). Everyone wins.

      Hurrah for open source! Etc!

      ...j

  4. porn by redled · · Score: 2
    This is a good idea in general, and if it's implemented in a secure way it should probably work well. However, I have a couple of concerns: while privacy is good for the average person, is more protection really what we want to give to say, child pornographers? And, in such a case where a child pornographer was using the software to protect his identity, would Zero-Knowledge be required by law to help divulge information to track down his real identity?

    Also:

    "empowers Internet users to surf the Web, send email, post to newsgroups and IRC chat in total privacy."

    Right now spam, and to a lesser extent, e-mail hoaxes and threats are an ongoing problem. I can see this software as a possible tool for spammers and hoaxers. Once again, does a person have legal recourse in a situation where an anoymous person has spammed them?

    --

    --

    --
    "Insert witty quote here."

    1. Re:porn by cicatrix · · Score: 3
      In the first case (child porn), you have to either accept that either you're going to trample on people's rights, or someone's not going to be as "safe" as they otherwise could be. I realize this sounds rather callous, especially in regard to children, but it's the truth. This (along w/terrorism) is one of the most often used arguments against privacy, especially on the internet. Of course, as soon as you start somewhere, you hit that lovely slippery slope fallacy--where does it stop? While a fallacy in a logical sense, people aren't always logical--far from it--so it applies, at least to some degree... Basically, it comes down to the question of how far are you willing to let the government (or anyone w/the resources to do so) pry into your affairs? Then ask yourself this: even if you say that things should stop there, why should your opinion of where to stop be any more of a limit than someone who draws the line at watching for people with "unhealthy" but perfectly legal habits?

      On the flip side of this, Freedom can make it safer for children by keeping any personal information away from prying eyes, specifially those of child molesters, etc. So now which is more important, protecting children from child molesters, or to make it easier to track child molesters? It'd also make it easier for the police to do stings in chat rooms, etc., because they can create a relatively untraceable pseudonym...

      On the happier and less controversial note of spammers, Freedom does reserve the right to pull 'nyms that are associated w/spam, etc.--a lot of spammers seem to be using either free email services until they get caught, or their own servers, so it'd get pretty expensive to pay $10/each for new names...

    2. Re:porn by cicatrix · · Score: 2
      Random relevant quotes:

      Liberty exists in proportion to wholesome restraint.
      -Daniel Webster, Speech at the Charleston Bar Dinner, May 10, 1847.

      They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
      -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania

    3. Re:porn by Bearpaw · · Score: 3
      Right now spam, and to a lesser extent, e-mail hoaxes and threats are an ongoing problem. I can see this software as a possible tool for spammers and hoaxers.

      From their FAQ:

      How does Zero-Knowledge limit spam abuse of Freedom?

      Zero-Knowledge is very much aware of the possibility that our technology may be used by spammers to distribute unsolicited commercial email. To discourage this, Freedom attempts to limit the potential for spam through a number of measures:

      * Limits on the total number of recipients/newsgroups to which email may be sent on any day
      * Reduced limits on the total number of recipients/newsgroups to which email may be sent on any day for trial nyms
      * Limits on cross-posting to newsgroups
      * Limited lifespans for trial nyms, discouraging their use for spamming purposes
      * Internet users can block email from any particular nym

      Moreover, Zero-Knowledge has a 'no-spam' policy which it will try to enforce, and reserves the right to delete any nyms or restrict users ability to send email for spamming on the Freedom Network. That said, given Freedom's design goals of complete privacy, if an individual hides behind a nym to send spam via Freedom, Zero-Knowledge will be unable to determine the identity of the nym's owner or to associate a particular nym with any others owned by the same individual.

  5. Re:This is Not a Flame by Plasmic · · Score: 2

    Is it really necessary for us to be your information slaves? A quick search of Slashdot (not to mention, reading the post and/or the article it links to) turns up more information than necessary to answer your question. See the following URL:

    http://slashdot.org/search.pl?quer y=Mike+Shavers

  6. Article from Macleans (www.macleans.ca) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2
    Hiding Web trails

    An Internet privacy product creates a public stir

    BY VINCE BEISER

    Austin Hill wants to make Web surfers invisible. With the Internet increasingly becoming a place where people's movements and personal information are tracked, logged, bought and sold, Hill's Montreal-based company, Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc., is set to launch a product that will conceal all cyber-wanderings. "Right now, the Net is like a street with a camera on every corner. Everything you do leaves a trace," says Hill, Zero-Knowledge's 26-year-old president. Law enforcement agencies, employers and hackers can easily monitor e-mail and online chat; corporate Web sites gather information on visitors, then resell it to marketing companies. Zero-Knowledge's Freedom software will prevent that by encrypting every communication a user sends.

    Scheduled for commercial release late this year, Freedom is already generating a buzz among Silicon Valley venture capitalist and privacy advocates. But it is also unsettling law enforcement officials, who warn that the privacy software will make life easier for virus makers, pedophiles and other online miscreants. FBI chief Louis Freeh recently told the U.S. Senate that the widespread availability of strong encryption products will "devastate our capabilities for fighting crime, preventing acts of terrorism and protecting the national security." Brent Pack, a so-called hacker hunter with the U.S. army's computer crime investigation unit, agrees. "Our job is hard enough," he says, "without adding any additional hurdles."

    There already are anonymous Web-surfing services and e-mail encryption programs on the market. Freedom, however, is the first to bundle these functions in a single user-friendly application. Though it is still being tested, "the idea," says Bruce Schneier, one of the industry's leading cryptography experts, "is fundamentally sound."

    It works by stripping all data leaving a user's computer of identifying information -- be it e-mail, chat-room gossip or requests for Web pages -- then wrapping it in several layers of 128-bit encryption, currently considered unbreakable. The data is then routed through a series of randomly chosen servers, each of which unwraps one of the encryption envelopes to find where to send the packet next. That means no single server knows both the origin and destination of the packet. (Even Zero-Knowledge won't know which data packets connect to which users, hence, the company name.)

    Freedom allows users to create up to five pseudonymous identities, none of which can be traced. This sits nicely with privacy advocates. "The police would have a much easier time if they could enter your house or read your mail any time they wanted," says David Jones, president of Electronic Frontier Canada, a cyber-rights group. "Why should e-mail be any less deserving of protection than a letter sent by Canada Post?"

    Hill, too, is a longtime believer in individual freedom -- especially his own. He quit high school at 15 to start a career as a computer security consultant. At 21, with the help of his older brother Hamnett, he co-founded what is now TotalNet Inc., one of Canada's largest Internet service providers. After selling that venture for a hefty profit, the brothers founded Zero-Knowledge in 1997, along with their father, Hammie, a corporate accountant.

    Overseeing Freedom's development is star hacker and Toronto native Ian Goldberg, 26. In recent years, he has made headlines by cracking the digital security system used by Netscape's Navigator and another used by many wireless phones, including Canada's Fido Network.

    While the demand for Web privacy is widespread and while the technology may be solid, the question remains: will people pay $75 to buy Freedom? Austin Hill is confident they will. The number of employees at Zero-Knowledge's loft-like headquarters on Montreal's now-hip Boulevard St. Laurent is projected to zoom from 50 to 110 in the next few months, and at least 50,000 volunteers have signed up to test Freedom's new release. "We don't expect overnight success," says Hill, "but we expect it quick."

  7. Do you /. guys read anything older than a few hrs? by GMontag · · Score: 2

    The press release has more details, but it appears that Zero Knowledge is privacy company which promises the ability to post, browse and all those good things anonyomously.

    APPARENTLY? There have been tons of stories about these guys ever since they began offering the beta and it should be no suprize at all to anybody that follows security just a little bit.

    Check their own site for stories that go back for months, including ZDNET, the Wall Street Journal, CNNin, C|Net, Newsweek, InternetNews, The Village Voice, Wired, Time.com and the list goes on for 2 very long pages.

    Yea, the new suit part might be news, but the what it "apparently" does part is old now.

  8. Models of security v privacy (slightly ot) by ardran · · Score: 4
    Some of you may consider this flamebait, but I'm serious.

    Things like ZKS make me wonder about what we are striving for in terms of privacy. There is the "real" world and the digital world -- is one meant to be an analogue of the other? Obviously, we want privacy because we don't want the digital world to be worse than the real world in certain ways. For instance, if we didn't encrypt credit card data during transactions, the digital world would be broken compared to the real when it comes to purchasing. Similarly, I want to be able to secure documents that I send to someone so that they are at least as good as taking certain "security" measures in the real world (registered mail, envelopes that aren't transparent, etc).

    There seems to be a distinction between the desire for online security (which seeks to emulate the security we can find in the real world) and the desire for online privacy (which seeks to surpass the real). There is no real-world equivalent to what ZKS proposes. If I walk down the street, people may not recognize me (unless they know me), but I clearly have an identity -- I can be distinguished from someone else on the street by a third-party observer, even though the observer may not be able to identify either of us. ZKS would allow me to walk down the street and appear identical to everyone else -- not just nameless, but faceless.

    Obviously, a lack of privacy dehumanizes; but couldn't an overabundance dehumanize as well? I'm interested in where exactly we're going with all this.

    1. Re:Models of security v privacy (slightly ot) by cicatrix · · Score: 2
      (I don't think it's flamebait :)

      I think that a lot of what people here aren't noticing yet (mostly 'cause it involves a lot of reading the Zero Knowledge/Freedom docs, etc.), is that Freedom isn't for anonymous internet, it's for pseudonymous use--if you're not careful (e.g. by switching to another pseudonym while on a site which actively places/updates cookies), you can have your pseudonyms connected together--or to your real name, if you shut off Freedom while surfing...

      You can check out their page for lots of details on what they have going on.... It can take a little digging, but there's lots of info there...

  9. Irony... by Gerv · · Score: 3

    Funny that, to get your internet "freedom" using Freedom.net, you have to be using the products and OSes of the software company in the world most opposed to freedom :-)

    Gerv

  10. Comic Book Store Guy says: by Zico · · Score: 3

    Worst. Name. Ever.

    Seriously, what kind of marketing wizard decided to name the company "Zero Knowledge". It sounds like a synonym for "Know Nothing." "Yeah, I know there are a lot of smart companies out there that we could work with, but that's so cliché -- we should team up with them Zero Knowledge guys!"

    Cheers,
    ZicoKnows@hotmail.com

  11. Zero-Knowledge Proofs by Omniscient+Ferret · · Score: 2
    There's this interesting crypto method that lets you prove you know something without showing the method of proof, e.g. proof of identity without worrying about forgery. I found one explanation of it online, and Bruce Schneier writes a more detailed explanation in Applied Cryptography.

    So, it's a double entendre: crypto in-joke, and also how much info you spread, accidentally, while using Freedom.

  12. Porn, spam, hoax, concerns by curril · · Score: 2

    I actually came across ZKS several years ago when they first started publicizing the product. IIRC, this was how they addressed these concerns.

    Each user has a pseudonym. If that pseudonym causes problems, it can be revoked, forcing the spammer to sign up again to spam again. Not really that much different than what any other ISP does, except that it is harder to prevent them from signing back up again.

    Law enforcement issues: A packet can be traced by going to the first server in the chain and getting a subpeona for its logs, which will point to the next server in the chain, eventually pointing back to the sender. This would be problematic since the servers can be in different countries, but still theoretically possible. ZKS did not start up to make life easy for law enforcement, but to protect people from anyone, including law enforcement, who encroach on the their privacy.

    There certainly will be abuses of ZKS, but that holds true of any system. The issue is whether or not a person should be allowed to interact with society on an anoymous level. I say yes. Police caught and convicted criminals long before there were DNA tests. They will still be able to do so without a trail of bloody footprints leading to the spammers door. If we give people tools such as ZKS, they can defend themselves from being attacked by spammers in the first place, rather than retaliating after the fact.

  13. coolest thing about freedom by zeroknowledge by jlb · · Score: 2
    I think the coolest thing about freedom is the transparently encrypted email. IIRC, this is how it works. You get email sent to your freedom nym. The freedom servers forward your mail to wherever you want, in encrypted format. When you download the mail with a pop client, freedom decrypts it before the data is passed to your pop client, so your client reads the mail in plain text.

    Pretty cool, but it *is* annoying that you're limited to a pop client. But, if you don't want to use pop, you can still use public email services, as they won't be able to see your actual ip address, because you're hidden behind the freedom servers.

  14. Re:An (albeit old) article on zero knowlege system by jedinite · · Score: 2

    I am posting this from a public terminal at the RSA2000 Conference, where Ian Goldberg (Zero Knowledge's chief scientist) is scheduled to talk tomorrow.

    I've got his session scheduled... I plan to grab some of the "best" questions from this thread on Slashdot and corner Ian afterwards and see what he's got to say. I'll post the results of my quest here tomorrow after the session, if anyone is interested.

    ---------
    Question: How do I leverage the power of the internet?

    --

    ---------
    There is no try at jedinite.com
  15. Re:An (albeit old) article on zero knowlege system by dattaway · · Score: 2

    There's an mp3 from a previous talk at the 1999 Ottawa Linux Symposium here. Very good information!

  16. Re:Hey, I have a question by Q*bert · · Score: 2
    I would definitely say there's something to them. I learned about the last two companies I've worked for at successive LinuxWorld Expos. (The first job was an internship, so it lasted only one Expo ;) .) I hadn't even heard of Vovida till I attended the August LWE. If you want just any job, tech advertising sites and recruiter are a way to go. If you are a fanatic like me, ;) and you won't work for a company that doesn't do Linux and/or open-source software, those conventions are really useful.

    Remember, we're still a fairly small part of the software industry at large. It's not always easy for Linux geeks and Linux companies to find each other.

    Good luck! Maybe I'll see your anonymous face at the next LWE in San Jose. :)

    Vovida, OS VoIP
    Beer recipe: free! #Source
    Cold pints: $2 #Product