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Microsoft Funded by NSA, Helps Spy on Win Users?
OpperNerd writes "A French intelligence report has accused U.S. secret agents of working with computer giant Microsoft to develop software allowing Washington to spy on communications around the world. According to the report, 'It would seem that the creation of Microsoft was largely supported, not least financially, by the NSA, and that IBM was made to accept the (Microsoft) MS-DOS operating system by the same administration.'" I personally don't believe this is true, but it's an interesting enough rumor to post for discussion. (SFX: Black helicopters whirring overhead.)
I can believe that there can be something like that in Windows but I doubt that it was possible to hide just anything in DOS. DOS is too small and too simple. Also it was reverse engineered sooooo many times. BTW, does anybody know if there are any pieces of DOS code which purpose is unknown or unclear?
Never attribute to malice what can be accounted for by stupidity.
It would be nice to believe that the buggy security was deliberate, but I just don't.
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
Sounds to me like Inspector Clouseau is heading up the French Defence Ministry these days.
Yes, the theory sounds a bit like something from X-files, and the french are known to, well not exactly like the US,
BUT
When people were speculating about ECHOLON a few years back, many also said it was nothing but conspiracy theories (and the first time its existance was officially admitted, was due to a question in the european parliament).
Secondly, it is generally assumed (or known) that the CIA shifted considerable effort into spying out foreign companies, and passing secret business information on to american companies, when the Cold War faded. That even lead to several american diplomats being "asked to leave" Germany (and yes the French do the same, ask Siemens about the ICE/TGV competition...)
Hence I think it would be wrong to immediately dismiss any thought of cooperation between Microsoft and some US Goverment agency.
I admit I don't believe that IBM was forced to accept MS-DOS as part of some master plan by the NSA to spy on the world, but rather that once MS was becoming so succesful, some agency recognized the potential...
And even if there are no backdoors etc, getting detailed inside knowledge about the protocols, formats, api's etc directly from the source would be a great help to NSA, CIA, etc.
After all, spying really IS the business of those organizations, and thinking they are only interested in other spies and terrorists would be quite naive...
Just my $0.02
Frank
Okay. The bad news is, Microsoft software users are being spied on. But everybody fails to see the practical benefits of this. So here are the Top Five good things about Microsoft and the NSA teaming together:
* All the software will already know your personal habits and information, therefore freeing you from the hassle of having to perform configuration.
* In time, all NSA programming staff will develop chronic psychosis (sp?) from prolonged exposure to the Windows sources.
* They can investigate user habits to find out what kind of graphical user interface is best suited to desktop users. And if even without this information they were able to create such great things as MS Bob (tm) and the Office Assistant, I can't help but wonder what great stuff may come next!
* Windows Millenium will come with earmuffs, to keep the constant noise from the black helicopters from blowing up your inner ear.
And last but not least, the Best Thing about Microsoft and the NSA teaming together:
* If the Shadow Government computers that run Echelon are Windows boxes, then you have nothing to worry about - by the time they recover from the BSOD, you'll already have hung up the phone!
---
(Why only five, you ask? Well, I'm not _that_ creative. It's an open list ("open source", much like Al Gore's campaign site), so feel free to add to it.)
To the editors: your English is as bad as your Perl. Please go back to grade school.
The non-existent security of MS-DOS caused an utter lack of security to proliferate around the world.
Whether black helicopters were involved or not is a whole other question...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
I don't think for a second that the authors are suggesting that DOS contained hidden security back doors. Look at the paragraph where DOS is mentioned.
it would seem that the creation of Microsoft was largely supported, not least financially, by the NSA, and that IBM was made to accept the (Microsoft) MS-DOS operating system by the same administration.
I infer from this that the creation of a dominant controlling software company overseeing PC operating sytems was the aim,and to further this scheme IBM was persuaded to use MS operating sytems on their incumbent PC platform. In this way a spook controlled company would be delivering the OS that was in use on the majority of the worlds desktop computers. Even if that operating system contained nothing shady on initial delivery, maybe enough foresight allowed them to realise that in later years it would be easy enough to slip in features like the famous NSA key as these devices became more powerful and networked.
Establish an initial base camp in the foothills , so to speak and there's no real harm done if nothing comes of it.
Still it all seems a bit far fetched to me. Now, if they'd suggested extraterrestrial involvement or drug money on the other hand . . . :o)
-- Oh Well
The page is blocked by the Chinese government.
(Yes, it actually is. I had to use a proxy in the States.)
Whacked-out theories, anyone?
Someone had to say it, but here are some reasons to support my theory
- Freely distributable... "Spread it around"
- Official OS of China (don't remember if this turned out to be false...)
- Most of the licensing seems to ask developers to make programs because you need them and distribute them for the good of the community
Hehe...--
linuxisgood:~$ man woman
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
This is an interesting acusation, and may very well be true, but how does one define "working with"?
1) Call Micros~1 tech support.
2) Sit on hold for hours on end listening to the nail-grating advertisements.
3) Listen to a tech pick up the phone and answer "wusup dude?"
4) Explain how your windows peecee constanly locks up with a blue screen every time the computer actually gets used.
5) Listen to the little dude squirm.
Congradulations, you're "working with micros~1". The broad acusations in this press release could indeed be very true, but not relivant.
Another interesting quote is: " the National Security Agency (NSA) helped install secret programmes on Microsoft software..."
people install applications onto the os everyday! Does this mean there is some kind of link between the program being installed and the OS?
_________________________
You can read more about it on WIRED.
France has also complained about PROMIS.
Bill Hamilton of Inslaw Corporation who was going after the government for stealing PROMIS gave this document to each member of the House Judicary Committee.
and we must not forget that Crypto AG supplied encryption machines to over 120 countries. Officials from Iran, Iraq, and the Vatican, to name a few, relied on Crypto's tech for top secret dispatches and the NSA had a deal with Crypto, which gave them a backdoor that made those encrypted messages easy to decipher and they were not even a US company.
Also what about Lotus Notes' NSA backdoor that is in international versions of the software.
Noel
RootPrompt.org -- Nothing but Unix
kayaking
About a year ago, there were several stories about how the Department of Motor Vehicles in four states were selling citizens' personal information, including the drivers' license photos, to a private company in New Hampshire (Image Data). The focus of this company was a system that would allow merchants to visually identify consumers, via the photos, and as such (it was alleged) would reduce fraud.
0 7.html
I watched a newscast shortly after the initial story broke, where an official from one of the four states was *very* ticked off at this company for misleading him with respect to their source of funds. Apparently, it was discovered that the company had received about $1.5 million from the U.S. Secret Service. Read about it at http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/216
So, while the notion that the NSA is in bed with Bill might seem a little far-fetched, this incident with Image Data makes the NSA/Microsoft issue seem a little more plausible.
However, right now, the US gov't is engaging in activities both in this country and others which in 5 years will eventually get reported and dismissed as "conspiracy theories" and in 20 years will be found to be fact, and those same people who were calling them conspiracy theories will then apologize for the "one time" error the government made and then believe they won't do it again. (after all, the gov't SAID they wouldn't do it again....).
The problem is, our government does horrible things as a part of POLICY, and this will never change until we get a real democracy.
Ignore Alien Orders
See, this shows just how beautiful CS companies can be. Not only can Microsoft declare their programs the most secure, best, or whatever (and no one can refute it without cracking it), but the other side can make outlandish claims (and there's no way to refute it without looking at the source). If anyone makes these claims about Linux, Apache, etc, we can easily say, "Here's the source code, point out where it's spying on you and we'll remove it." All Microsoft can say about this is, "Um, no we're not. Buy Windows 2000 though."
What would MSDOS have to do with spying on communications back when IBM included it with their PCs?
It wasn't even a network operating system, and the Internet was not exactly a widely used public network at the time.
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni