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Gnome 1.1.4 Released
sheldie wrote to us to say that those wild and wacky Gnome guys have released Gnome-core/gnome-applets 1.1.4. As we've said before, they are currently in a feature-freeze, working towards 1.2. Of course, I do think that the best part of 1.1.4 is the name: "Ponies for Sale!" does a great job of drawing it all together. *grin*
I agree with you -- but that's what meta moderation is for.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Thanks for the information. It just occurred to me that when I say panel I mean panel, the root menu button--the whole thing. My gnome-core revision is 1.0.54 so I'll definitely grab 1.1.4 if it's regarded as stable and the root menu panel etc are resizeable. I would not complain about Gnome if I didn't like it in some respects and want it to succeed. I have been pretty disappointed so far in the look of Gnome, but everything can change. It'd be nice if Redhat spent money on having a designed look for their distro; it's no secret that Gnome is the Redhat default and a RHlabs project--so it's their lookout IMO.
If Gnome didn't superficially look like it was hacked together by amateurs, superficial people might have a lot fewer suspicions about Linux actually being a blotchy clone hacked up by amateurs. And there are way, way too many of us superficial people out there in the world for the importance of the above statement to simply be brushed aside.
as of gnome 1.1.x, the panel has been resizeable,
and has looked much more polished in general.
i dunno, I kind of like the icons, but to each their own. You should try this release, I've been
using 1.1.3 for as long as it's been out, and i've
had zero problems as well as zero down time.
---- I like compilers
The problem with your post is the believability factor. If you had made the time frame smaller (like a few days to a week) then the story would have worked better. It's still really gross though, and that's what counts these days (see: American Pie; There's Something AboutMary; etc.)
can someone send this to the Smithsonian? This is a fucking national treasure.
thank you, my troll lord.
Please oh please... Make it stop. We don't want this. If I wanted to hear that Gnome went up by 0.0.1 version number, I'll go to freshmeat. That's why I go there. There's nothing wrong with announcing say, a 1.0.0, or even a 0.1 version number increase, provided that it offers significant improvements. But this does not ...
... Don't let it slide :)
When I go to slashdot, I want to hear about people developing ground-breaking gene-therapy, flat speakers, 1000000 year-lasting lamps, vibrating penguin keychains and Microsoft's latest blunder. I don't care that etoy is being slowly crushed under the foot of etoys. It happens every day, sad as that may be. I don't want to hear about how GE just patented a new dish washer OS. You get the idea.
Let freshmeat do their thang, and you keep on doing your thang. And thanks for doing it. Just
Now I'll go back to telling someone else how to do their jobs, too, so you don't feel left out.
Miguel is on the FSF board.
His email is miguel@gnu.org
Alexei
There has always been several widget sets available to use for linux. I have several different libs to use, and often use gnome apps, and kde apps with different wm's. I dont get what yer beef is here. If you want a 'standard' widget set, stick with winblow, or mac.
Your Milage May Vary.... be sure to grab a copy of gdk-pixbuf, too! Enjoy!
I attempted to run GNOME under i486, 16 MBytes memory. It turned out GNOME is way too slow. Even Windows is faster. I just don't get it: one of Windows' weaknesses is that it is bulky and slow. Why makes GNOME the same? If GNOME should run fast under 16 Mbytes i486, could anyone tell me how to make it so?
In summary, if you haven't already got October Gnome, get that. Then get gdk-pixbuf and install it. Then gnome-core and gnome-applets. It's easier with the rpms because rpm -e is a godsend if things go wrong.
I have been running the 1.1.x gnome-core/applets and haven't crashed them effectively yet. The old bugbear of the crashed panel is now gone, because it has started itself back up after I crashed it (I was trying to: I was curious) without that wretched "You already have a panel running" message.
There should be some reasonably up to date information in the FAQ: if it doesn't work, tell the FAQ folks so they can _fix_ it!
Finally, don't confuse "latest release" with CVS. The stable CVS stuff is stable. Parts of the HEAD branch, notoriously, are not, and this frequently includes gnome-libs, which is a fairly fundamental part :) If you just want to try the new bits, forget CVS and go for the 1.1.x releases, and throw in as many bugs as possible into the bug-tracker. I've had a lot of mine getting fixed very fast recently. (Thanks guys, I do notice it)
The canonical reference to sucking ass comes the HBO prison show in the US. If orget the exact name but the gist of it was where one prisoner would offer another the choice of "jam or jelly." The ass-sucker would then place the condiment of choice on the anus of the other and proceed to perform analingus. Not a pleasant thought, at least to me.
Democracy frequently yields more than two viable choices. It is only the US system of winner-take-all at the precinct level that caused the two party system. In many democratic nations, if party C gets 10% of the vote, they get 10% of the seats.
But that's neither here nor there.
"BSD and System-V" - trivial. They're just two variants of the same system.
"VI[M] and Emacs" - what about "classic" vi and elvis and vile? What about XEmacs? What about joe and jed? What about xedit, kwrite, and gnotepad?
"RedHat and Debian" - Hah! Redhat may be the current marketing winner, but no one has any clear title to number two. But this is a topic on Gnome, and Gnome runs on a lot more than Linux! So don't forget BSDs or the commercial unices...
"Gnome/GTK and KDE/Qt" - Okay, you got one. But it's only a temporary win. Considering how quickly these desktops came on the scene, it's very plausible that one or both could be shoved aside with next year's entry. Just think of the possibilities inherent in an "Enlightenment Widget Kit", or if GNUstep decides to suddenly take off!
The point is, when you try to divide up the world into halves, you're always going to fail.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Gnome dose some things differently than KDE. As to ease of interface that depends on the user. I know people who have been driving stick shift for years and can't drive an automatic.
It's the same with desktops. Some people find Gnome clunky and others can't figure out KDE. Ask a Mac user about Windows and you will learn just how "not easy" that is. So if some journalist doesn't get Gnome, too bad. The Gnome authors should read what he found wrong with it and ask for details if necessary then incorporate the best of his ideas.
That's the tough thing about end user apps. To develop them with quality you have to listen to a lot of people who really can't code draw or write decent documentation.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
make them yourself, it is as simple as
.debs.
$ rpm -ta gnome-core-1.1.4.tar.gz
then use alien if you want
It consistantly works perfectly for me.
The number one weakness of GNOME is its numbering sy system.
The numbers are all thrown about with nobody know which one to follow. Sometimes we see mentions of GNOME 1.1.0, then we have GNOME 1.1.2, and now GNOME 1.1.4, and GNOME 1.2.
But let us not forget about another slashdot article about the desktop environment for GNOME 2.0.
My only wish is that the GNOME people will once and for all stop throwing all those confusing numbers out because many users are having a lot of trouble keeping up which one is which.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I wonder what the G in GNOME stands for. Could it be? No it can't be. It is. GNU. Think about that. Also note that all original GNOME code is Copyright FSF.
Campus Crusade (mf, voy, ex)
...In the mirror in front of her, she watched her body
She heard the crack of the blinds mashing against the
window and then felt the cool, wet smoothness of the glass against
her bare ass. Her hips bucked in an urgent rhythm forcing her
cheeks to slide up and down the cool glass. The small room warmed
quickly from their passion causing small beads of condensation to
form on the window. The cool, wet smoothness of the glass against
her ass as she drug it rhythmically across the window only made
the warm, wet smoothness of her lover inside her even warmer. Her
heart raced faster as she wondered if the people in the courtyard
below the tower were watching. She forced herself down onto his
gift of the gods and softly moaned as her body stretched to
accommodate the breadth of its base. She loved feeling the
fullness of his cock inside her and could sense every bump, and
ripple as she slid up and down its entire length. Coming to its
base her swollen bulb of flesh pressed down into his pubic bone
sending waves of firey pleasure through her body. She could feel
the intensity and need building between her legs each time she
pressed down onto him. As she focused on the growing fire of
pleasure, her hips started bucking instinctively dragging her clit
up and down his abdomen. The force of her strokes threw him off
balance. He stumbled around for a second before backing up against
the sink for support; her rhythm never broken. As she drew near
the edge, she pulled herself close to him and let a deep moan
escape her lips.
"Shhh!," he whispered in her ear, "This is a library."
Opening her eyes with a start, she looked in the mirror in
front of her half surprised at the sight before her. There she was
impaled upon this man, her skirt hiked up around her waste, her
legs wrapped around his body. She glanced at the reflection of the
old toilet in the corner, the paint peeling off the grafittied
walls, and suddenly could not believe she was doing this....
She had seen the signs on the kiosks for years--"Campus
crusade, come, join the club"--but never really paid attention
except for wondering how anyone in college could be dumb enough to
add that second comma.
This had all changed a week earlier. She was working in
the library when she walked by a secluded study room. Something
caught her eye through the window of the study room. In a picture
on the wall of the study room, she could see the clear reflection
of her friend from last semesterâ(TM)s English class. She started to
walk in to say hi but quickly stopped as she watched her friend
hike her skirt up. She was not wearing any panties! "What was
going on?" she thought to herself. She watched as her friend slid
her index and middle fingers up her thigh and plunged them into
her sex. She then held them out before her. A man stepped forward
into the reflection to accept her offering. She quickly unzipped
his pants, pulled out his cock, turned away from him, and backed
onto his cock. As she watched her friend grind against this guy,
she knew she should turn away and get back to work, but she just
couldnâ(TM)t seem to move. An intense warmth and wetness was building
in her own pussy as she watched his cock drive into her friend.
Her white ass slammed against the dark, hairy abdomen of her
lover. She reached down to part her lips and the man quickly
reached around and rubbed her clit as she started to come. The
onlooker closed her eyes and imagined that it was her swollen bulb
being rubbed.
Her eyes popped open as the door opened. "Oh, Hi!" her
friend said. She managed a raspy "Hi" in return as she tried to
regain her composure. Her friend introduced the man, and then he
left the women to catch up. They went into the study room and
closed the door so they could talk. The small room smelled
strongly of sex making it even harder for her to concentrate on
talking to her friend.
"Well, arenâ(TM)t you going to ask?" her friend said.
"Ask what?" she replied trying to act ignorant of what she
saw.
"Oh, come on," her friend said, "you were rubbing yourself
when we walked out. You watched us didnâ(TM)t you?"
"Well, yes." she sheepishly replied.
"I donâ(TM)t mind, youâ(TM)re a good friend. There really is a
good explanation though; we wouldnâ(TM)t normally do that here. You
see, weâ(TM)re trying to join this club called Campus Crusade," her
friend said.
"Campus Crusade!? I thought theyâ(TM)d prefer if you didnâ(TM)t do
it anywhere. Arenâ(TM)t they just a bunch of Bible toting
fundamentalist?"
"Oh no, no. Thatâ(TM)s just a front to fool the
administration. Its really a group of adventuresome couples who
have sex all over campus--bathrooms, study rooms, library desks,
elevators, offices, anywhere really.
"Wow!" she enthusiastically said revealing a little more
interest than she intended.
"Weâ(TM)re meeting tomorrow. Youâ(TM)re welcome to come"
She did not get much work done the rest of the day. Even
after sating her desire in the bathroom at lunch, she could not
stop thinking about what she saw or the plans she was dreaming up.
At the meeting the next day she learned the basic rules:
you had to take a Polaroid of the act for proof and posterity; and
you had to have sex in five different places to complete your
first crusade to become a member.
She planned the first stop on her campus crusade for a few
days later. When the day arrived, her excitement was overwhelming.
On her friendâ(TM)s advice, she wore a short, sexy skirt and no
panties. She had scheduled to meet her lover at a restaurant for
lunch with the plan of calling him just before to suggest he meet
her at the library. The thought of her plans and light air on her
uncovered, shaven lips kept a small fire burning between her legs
the entire morning.
When lunch approached, she called him to say she was
running late and was finishing up some work in the library. He
agreed to meet her where she said she was working. She sat at a
desk in the near empty library where he wouldnâ(TM)t see her and began
stroking herself in anticipation and preparation of their meeting.
By the time he arrived, her sex was covered in her wetness and
aching to be filled. She snuck up behind him, pressed her body
against his, kissed the back of his neck, and placed her wet
fingers in front of his nose knowing exactly what this would do to
him. His manhood immediately engorged with blood and strained
against his shorts. Straining in pain and bewildered by her
actions, he ducked into the bathroom to relieve the binds. As he
unzipped his zipper to relieve the pain of his straining cock, the
door opened and she stepped in. She grabbed his throbbing cock
unable to get her hand around its breadth. With her other hand she
lifted her skirt to reveal her aching pussy. Before her lover even
knew what was going on, she jumped into his arms impaling herself
on his cock. She immediately began pumping as fast as she could up
and down his entire length. He stepped toward the window to brace
himself against her thrust....
convulse with pleasure around his as waves of her orgasm shot
through her. Set off by her orgasm, his body tensed up and she
felt his cock surge inside of her.
As she sat on his body, legs around his waist, she smiled
at herself in the mirror. She knew neither of them would ever
forget this. She pulled the Polaroid from her purse and clicked a
picture of them in the mirror.
"Was that a flash?" he asked.
She smiled. "I didnâ(TM)t see anything. You must not me
getting enough blood to your head."
Did you like this story? Cum get thousands more at
But Marx couldn't foretell unions and welfare which has helped equalize the high and low classes that existed in the 19th century.
Well, all window managers are almost complete - as long as I can actually put files on the desktop, not just hard-coded links that I cannot move them about, I'd be happy.
So far, only KDE, GNOME and DFM do that, and DFM does not look half as good.
"Look, is it my fault if the UNIX guys can't get their act together?"
AFAIK, the "Unix guys" did get their act together, sort of. It's called Motif and CDE. Unfortunately, said Unix guys also made Motif and CDE proprietary, so they only became standard on proprietary Unices.
Actually, if Motif weren't proprietary, the GTK probably wouldn't exist, since (AFAIK) it was created to remove the GIMP's dependance on Motif. (The really early versions of the Gimp were Motif-based.) GNOME probably wouldn't have existed, either, certainly not in its current form.
WYSIWYG ... to a certain extent like WMakerConf's Theme Preview feature? I found that pretty stunning. My already religiously favorite Window Manager (You know, I've tried BlackBox, KDE, E, IceWM, AfterStep, etc, but NOTHING has convinced me to stray away from Window Maker... I've used it for over a year) has such a cool program (not WM-designed, seeing as wmakerconf is an external utility not made by the WM team AFAIK) designed for it.
the real at&t mix
But I would like to find a howto that tells exactly how to upgrade from an older version of Gnome to a newer version. ie, what files need to be updated, etc. Also I would like to be able to go back to my current version if I'm unhappy, but I can just imagine the nightmare of getting the two mixed up...some old files and some new files... Is there such a doc somewher that would help a non-hacker to play with the new stuff???
Plus I'm rather short on disk space, how much space does Gnome take up ?
I believe that Marx said that his philosophy would only be applicable after capitalism/industrialism had reached its peak (and it sure wansn't in Russia). Maybe in this little slice of a rapidly growing economy, that time may be near!
--
--
fat lenny's gonna lick your brain today.
I especially like the about popup from the panel; that picture is simply hillarous!n .jpg
http://www.gnome.org/screenshots/19991230-julia
lots of other examples in linux, as you said
Use the quicklaunch applet. It makes the lauchers small enough to fit about 5 (not exactly, since they're square) in the size of an old one.
Whats going on! Whats up with all these meta moderator wanna be's??? STOP posting about the content of an article and how it should be moderated.. its gettin annoying.. *mutters* let people decide and stop worrying about how stuffs moderated. If you noticed it plenty of moderators will to.
make the rpm with rpm -ta then use alien?
--
I find that I'm hesitant to install things because I'm not sure of the "clean" way to remove them if I don't like them.
/
Eventually, my hard disk gets all trashed up and I don't really know the proper way to go about cleaning it up.
Is there a how-to that tells directories where certain things are located, the proper (or suggested) places to put things, a typical uninstall procedure, etc? If not, it would be really handy.
I realize that not all apps are the same, but there are surely some basic rules. There are only so many directories where things end up. I've found some of them by doing an install, finding out the new program wasn't in my path, and then:
cd
find -name "myprogram"
Not a good way to do it, but it works. I've never attempted to uninstall anything except VMWare, and I only tried it because I saw that it had an uninstall script.
--
Note: I did try out alien, I have used it before but didn't know how well dependencies translated, needless to say Im impressed.
HUMOR in LINUX
Nope, I can't get from one to the other.
I can, however, get from PONY to GLUE in 3 steps:
PONY -> HUGE PRESSURE COOKER -> GLUE
Wingnut
For a while, the Gnome team had a bonobo fetish. While technically "bonobo" only refered to the set of CORBA interfaces, lots of other stuff got slapped with similarly inspired names -- hence "Tasty Yellow Banana".
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
im running gnome+sawmill and have xchat, gnapster, gnomeicu, gaim and lots of gnome-terminals and (ugh) netscape and it's taking 40 mbs of RAM. of course, what is the biggest RAM eater? Netscape! it takes up more RAM than X! according to ps aux | grep netscape its taking up 29% of my RAM. opening and closing netscape is a habit now every other hour. if you can, try to run apps that use the same graphical libraries, like all qt/kde or gtk/gnome apps.
i thought I had no sig?
"Make a Linux API...Adopt either Qt or GTK, (preferably GTK) and strip out all the widget stuff...so it can function as a full API for the system."
You're forgetting two big roadblocks for your scheme. First, where are the API Police going to get the authority to enforce your rule? If you remember, Redhat tried to standardize on Gnome and inadvertently spun off Mandrake in the process. Second, Open Source is more than just Linux (why do you guys keep forgetting this!). Both Gnome and KDE run on *every* Unix system, both free and proprietary. If you managed to get your way and mandated a standard Linux API, you would end up locking out non-Linux source code. An application that currently runs on every unix-like system would end up working only on Linux, or on every other unix but Linux.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
As if Windblows had a standard widget set. Even assuming you discount Lotus Notes and anything ported from Unix, you would still have an enormous funky mess of Microsoft stuff -- four different kinds of toolbars, all sorts of tabbed dialog boxes, thousands of homebrew VB OCX controls, and so on. The only thing that is standard is the dull gray color.
--Ben
I think I prefer evolutionary. Open Source/Free Software is Darwinism personified. Microsoft plays the part of social heathcare.
Microsoft represents all those people that should have been weeded out long ago, but for being crutched-up by the best marketting science man has developed have gone on to live a long, annoying life. "That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
I'm not quite sure where Gnome fits here, maybe as a speckle-breasted warbler, or something?
Please note I resisted the temptation to bring Keyesian economics into the discussion.:)
There's a spider on your shoulder.
You know, the whole idea of comparing software development methods and licenses to economic systems like Capitalism and Socialism, or political systems like Democracy or Fascism is retarded on a number of levels. It's like comparing apples to concrete. I think people jump at the "parallels" for the same reason they compare enemies to Hitler, or whoever. While they may amuse the writer for a little while, and annoy or rile up the reader for a little while, these kinds of comparisons contain no information.
Not to mention that "political" and "economic" systems are not really seperable, nor do they ever really exist in "pure" forms, but these kinds of comparisons always assume that to be the case.
The whole thing is like dunking women in tubs of water to prove whether or not they are witches; it does not really matter if they are witches or not, and, the chosen method for proving the goodness or badness of the aledged witch does not actually indicate whether or not she is a witch. In short, it's just a pretext for drowning a woman people don't like.
The issue if "GPL == Socialism" is of the same nature.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
This is not quite accurrate. Both Erik Troan and Richard Stallman were kind enough to point initially what was wrong with the Qt license to me. At that time, it was not very obvious to me. Richard Stallman, Erik and Marc were all part of the initial "proposal" to create the GNOME desktop (together with Peter Mattis and Spencer), and it was planned to be a GNU project since the day it was conceived (a few days before the actual announcement). Richard even reviewed the proposal and made sure I was not being rude to anyone MIguel
j0r momma!
Hehe, sucking someone's ass is the as "tossing their salad" Doesn't anyone listen to Chris Rock?
> "RedHat and Debian" - Hah! Redhat may be the current
> marketing winner, but no one has any clear title
> to number two.
There are at least three distributions which are based upon Debian. One of them, Corel Linux, has been aimed squarely at the desktop market, and has the marketing machinery of a fairly large software company behind it. Whilst I agree that there's no clear "number two" distribution, Debian is shaping up to be the biggest "metadistribution".
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
I believe that Marx said that his philosophy would only be applicable after capitalism/industrialism had reached its peak
Marx was a bit naive. He extrapolated how bad capitalism could get, and figured out that people couldn't live with that so there would/should be revolution. All sorts of doomsday people do the same thing.
What usually happens is that people see the problems before they get out of hand. Then policy changes - gradually. Trade unions took care of the "easily replaceable" workers. Others specialiced and became well-paid.
Lesstif is pretty near feature-complete now.
I'm really glad we have the choice between GNOME and KDE, and both interoperate *very* well with each other. I run GNOME at school and KDE at home, but I have no trouble switching between the two. My GNOME windows are themed differently than my KDE ones, but it's not a huge problem.
;)
Choice is good. That's why Windows sucks
æeee!
He's down and he ain't getting up. HE's down in the dirt in the driveway.... I think it's his lung.
And plenty of minorities. You always have choice. And then you have major standards behind two. E.g.,:
They are the majority, with plenty of minorities. This may not be the best way, but the best way we know of.
Proprietary software is like socialism, with Microsoft the epitome as communism. One choice, and we punish you if you try to choose otherwise.
Me? I'm a Gnome wennie (then again, I'm a RedHat-baised wennie too ;-).
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
Independent Author, Consultant and Trainer
This made my day, kudos to the GNOME guys!.
;-)
I really can't wait until they release the stable 1.2 !!
GNOME is really better to use than e.g. the windows GUI, I especially love the large launchers on the panel.
but.... are the ponies open source
---
Now using XML we can automate the semi-weekly Gnome vs KDE flamefest....
<?xml version = "1.0">
<!DOCTYPE = GnomeversusKDE [
<!ELEMENT Flame (KDESucks | GNOMESucks)>
<!ENTITY KDESucks "KDE Sucks!, GNOME Rules">
<!ENTITY GNOMESucks "GNOME Sucks!, KDE Rules">
]>
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
Dull-named stable releases:
1.0.0 GNOME
1.0.50 October GNOME
Cool-named unstable releases:
1.1.1 Beantown
1.1.2 Curse of the Bambino
1.1.3 Tasty Yellow Banana
1.1.4 Ponies for Sale
Let's just hope there's space for one more 1.1.x before 1.2 arrives!
The difference between the 2 is rapidly diminishing...
HERE
The article explains that a bunch of old Apple/Mac programmers are more or less incharge of interface for GNOME 2.0 (as far as the file manager and back processes of the file manager) and that HelixCode is incharge of the internal "plumbing." It also said that HelixCode is really looking to put together a office suite.
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
Linux doesn't take itself too seriously. (As in the people who create for it.) I mean we have these hilarious codenames for GNOME releases, and there's other items like the "Most Doomed" List, which if I recall is a list of programmers whose programs have the most bugs. Fantastic sense of humor.
I guess this is a good example of the ethic behind Linux compared to Windows. While amusing codenames are entertaining, I think as an investor I'd find it hard to invest in a company that was offering. Microsoft Windows 2000: Large Unfriendly Bear or the like. (Though the codename I just mentioned would be a good codename for Microsoft.)
Of course ethically I couldn't invest in MS anyway, but that's another story...
Keep up the humor guys!
I submit to you that we do have a choice of compilers. Yes, you are correct, GCC is all that is out there, however, why reinvent the wheel? The reason there is only one compiler is because no one wants to waste their time and energy rewriting all the core stuff gcc does. Plus the fact that gcc is such a great product in terms of reliabilty, portability and speed that I doubt a new, completly from scratch compiler could do any better. Instead what has happened with gcc is that it has branched and forked somewhat. You've got good ol' gcc 2.7.x churnin out reliable code albeit not to well optimized. Then you have gcc 2.9.x (formerly known as egcs, soon to be gcc 3.0). It's getting there in terms of reliabilty and makes a lot more optimized binaries (most of the problem right now is bad code, not the compiler). You've also got pgcc for those times you want to squeeze every ounce of speed out of your Pentium, Pentium Pro, or K6 processor. No one has bothered to start a new compiler because its just not worth the effort, where as Window Managers and Environments (yes, I know the difference) are a dime a dozen because everyone likes there desktop a little (or a lot) different. You still have choice.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems GNOME is WAY too slow and takes up WAY too much memory. I've stopped using gnome-session / panel (combined with Enlightenment, that's a REAL memory hog), but I still have apps that use the gnome libraries ..And they all take up more memory than any decent program should be allowed thanks to the interface. (compare X-Chat to epic for example). The problem is, of course, that Linux needs the kind of functionality that GNOME provides if it is going to make it in the desktop market. Yet it seems that GNOME is *dare I say it* even slower and 'clunkier' than what Windows provides. Honestly, I've yet to see a full featured Linux desktop environment that has the same snappy performance of Windows GUI functionality. Of course, half of that is XFree, but the excessive memory use can't help either. So when are we going to start seeing improved GUI performance? And how are we going to get there?
etc. that's the next version of e: just . . . ssssssspppaaaaaccce . . . doooooooodd . . . Raster's shooting horse these days (get it? "ponies for sale"?) and that's where it's at. drastically fewer bugs!
Sorry you don't like to hear it. Much less coverage and stories are rejected where the same thing is covered later with Gnome.
I hear a lot of people on one side say that Linux should have a standard window manager, and a lot of people on the other side saying that choice is good. There is a perfectly good compromise between the two, but it cannot be achieved because the GNOME and KDE developers are, to put it nicely, brain-dead. Both KDE and GNOME have very nice widget sets, Qt and GTK, respectivly. The problem is that they provide an API, not just widgets, so you have to utterly unrelated libraries tied together. The reason people are pushing for a standard interface in mainly app compatibility. Choice is fine, but when one desktop does not nativly run the apps of another desktop, then its not the same OS anymore. They are adopting the emacs train of thought, thinking that they ARE the OS. Sorry, but there is no reason that a widget set should have printing services. The best thing to do would be this. Make a Linux API. It has Posix, but something to access the higher level system would be nice. Yes, X has this to an extent, but it is a pain in the ass to program to all these different layers. Adopt either Qt or GTK, (preferably GTK) and strip out all the widget stuff, and flesh out the rest of it so it can function as a full API for the system. Then make a strict API for the system API to talk to the window manager, and move all the widget stuff into there. Thus what you end up with is a system that is almost as customizable as the current system, but without the hassles of having to deal with so many APIs. Policy should be seperate of implementation. Thus an app could ask for a window, do operations to the window, etc, all through the system API, but the look and feel would be governed by whatever window manager one had installed.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Check out www.mosfet.org for KDE2 info. KDE is still far ahead...
must we always compare microsoft to the fascist dictator because a fascist dictator is in charge? microsoft is big, it makes software called windows, we as /. posters hate this. Now get over it, get to work, analysis of our situation is wonderful just not at every pass. rest of the comment cool. venting.... rob
I've actually wondered about the phrase "sucking ass". When one sucks ass, do they suck on the buttock (the meaty part)? Are hickies common with this practice? Personally I can't think of anything on or in the ass that would tend well to sucking. Or is it entirely a figure of speech?
Please don't mark this down; I'm genuinely curious.
If you want a really good looking and customizable desktop, run enlightenment by itself. Much nicer IMHO.
/. I develop an inverted comb of icons. such as:
E is customizable in the way that emacs is. You know there's a way to do it, but damned if you know where/how to change it.
E is quick, but it's lacking in some serious respects. Namely in the themes arena. I'm not talking about the lack of themes (good lord! there's a lot), but the way themes are managed. If I want to change the color of my titlebar, I don't want to have open up some huge theme hunt around for the one line and change it from "SlateBlue" to "Salmon" or whatever. What E (and all themeable WMs in general) is a WYSIWYG theme editor, on the level of Windows's Contol_Panel|Display. Just a nice place where I can click on a title bar and say "make this putrid green" and WHALLA! It's done.
I also would like to have looks and feels seperated like how they are in Afterstep. (Which has config files that are pretty easy to understand). (In all honesty I haven't divulged down into the depths of E themes, just far enough to say, "This is too involved for such a trivial task. Fuck it.", so this may actually be the case in E, but if it is, it's not as obvious as it is in AS.)
The other feature I'd like to see introduced is more control over icons in E. 1. I'd like to be able to have icons uniconify to where they were iconified from, not always the active screen. 2. I wish the icons wouldn't constantly resort themselves. It gets damn confusing. (I icononify and uniconify alot. I can keep track of what's what if the icons would just stay put.) Finally I'd like to beable to turn that damn icon box off. I REALLY don't like icon boxes; they're too confining (which is coincifently why I don't like taskbars/lists and CDE style button-based pagers). I websurf in a VERY atypical fashion. As I read a page I open interesting links in a new window and continue to read the original page. I then group relavent icons together. For instance when I read
SSS
CCC
11
2
(where S = story, C = comments, # = newslink)
I can only work this way if icons go to the root window and can be moved anywhere I want. (forcing icons to stay in an icon corral on the root window is not acceptable. Infact it's just wierd.)
Because of these short commings I'm going to start playing with sawmill.
Sorry, I just can't let this go...you say you know nothing about KRASH and KDE 2.0 but you make the sweeping opinion that KDE is 'losing ground'? Methinks you haven't educated yourself enough to make such a statement. KDE has stagnated and has moved forwards in very significant steps.
As for the 'internal design'...why not go to developer.kde.org and actually read up on it? You'll find lots of interesting stuff. KDE was following the CORBA-everywhere approach of Gnome for a while but they went a very different way last fall...you'd find the reading very interesting if you like the design of GNOME. KParts goes a completely different direction from CORBA.
KDE 1.X is very old news, and very old design. The new stuff is quite good, easily at par with Gnome. The nice thing is we'll be able to see two very different architectures at work, side-by-side in the near future (arguably doing the exact same thing).
But forget it, this article was about Gnome, why did you (and others) bring KDE into it at all??
(and for the record, Gnome was NOT the FSF's "answer" to KDE. Gnome was Miguel's answer to KDE, and later was adopted by the FSF....but that is a story in itself, since I thought WindowMaker was initially adopted as the 'official' environment of the FSF.)
Just a troll going for shock factor with a rather disgusting picture...
Don't feed the trolls.
Was he a member when GNOME (the original not the KDE clone) started? It's no wonder he's a member. He even has the RMS trait of taking offense when a member of the media calls Gnome Open Source software.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Well, there's gcc, borland C is coming soon. Dice C and VBCC both compile on linux as well as AmigaOS, and VBCC in particular would be a viable replacement for the C subset of GCC. And there's also LCC.
Standards are good for short-term goals, because they allow to reach them without dispersing resources.
But the OSS world cannot operate like a company : it is too wide and too diverse. I like to think that is is operating like a brain, where different clusters of neurons develop different thoughts, often alternative and in competition.
On the long run, it's all for the best (I hope).
Anyway, I read that GNOME and KDE are working on a common Window Manager interface. This is a start. Next thing, a common MIME library (pleeese)?
Ciao
----
FB
I'll agree that there isn't a choice between different free compilers, and I'll agree that it is a *massive* effort to write a brand new compiler....
I'd really like answered: why do you want more compilers? Or, in other words: what do you hope to find that's different?
`cc' commands aren't really like `desktop' software, where you can completely change the UI, and be able to say, `I like this better because it has a friendlier UI'--mainly because it breaks compatibility with every other compiler and makefile and configure script in a big way.
Hm. If a different set of command-line arguments is all you want, it shouldn't be too hard to write a front end (just for when the user is manually using gcc) that converts from user-specific command-line-style to a native gcc command-line.
Having that said, the only other aspects of compilers that I can think of are the languages that they support, the platforms that they compile to and the quality of the output that they produce; in the first and second cases, it's really not so necessary to write an entirely new compiler-system, because you can write a front-end `compiler' for the C-compiler, or a back-end, or even just the assembler component. Hm.
I'm assuming that the AC was referring to the whole compilation system--the preprocessor, the compiler, the assembler, the linker..., rather than just the compiler....
Anyway, to the last point: performance:
Wanting a better-performing compiler is valid, regardless of how good GCC is (always try to make things better, eh?), but that really doesn't seem like a reason for maintaining two compilers--is the justification `some people want a low-quality compiler and some want a high-quality compiler'?
Actually..., that may be a good point (I rather like having a slow system to test things on, just because it makes differences in the qualities of algorithms so evident), but still not one that warrants two different compilers, because the compiler takes optimisation switches.
There might be specific types of algorithms or code-segments that one compiler is better at compiling, and so one could say `I use X when compiling type-x code, and I use Y when compiler type-y code', but, since we have the ability to do so, I'd still argue that it's better to fold all of the goodness into something like GCC.
Then, there are, of course... rewrites of GCC (ie: 1, 2).
-rozzin.
this was labeled as a "Troll", No the poster provided information that is "Informative" and should be marked up accordingly.
Proprietary software is like socialism, with Microsoft the epitome as communism.
Au contraire... mon frere. I would call Microsloth more of a facist dictator, forcing everyone to adopt their corrupt regime - or else (drag finger across neck). Socialism/Capitalism are economic systems, democracy is a governing system. Sweden implements both, and does a fairly decent job of it.
Open source is more like socialism. In a co-operative system, everyone is equal, contributes labor to an organized cause, and everyone is entitled to equal benefits. Sound familiar? There is nothing inherently wrong with socialism - the problem with the large, failed implementations that we were facing during the cold war, were the tactics they used strong-arm tactics to keep their members in line. One drawback to co-operation is the lack of competition - which is the redeeming quality to capitalism.
Where in the capitalist framework do you fit code-reuse? At least in the open source movement, there is a mix of competition with co-operation so that those guiding the path don't get complacent and sloppy. It also helps to be working under the shadow of Microsoft, so that there are constantly critics questioning the quality open source software. This pushes the community to refine until it's bullet-proof... almost.
Programmers unite!
- passion
I'm getting flamed every time I mention this, but a very important thing is missing in the list: a choice of compilers.
i think about "ponies for sale" and the first image that comes to mind is some long-haired bearded guy on acid, in a pool of his own vomit, pupils dilated, screaming "look at all the pretty horses!!!!".. anyone else have this reaction?
seriously, i think we need to put some of the important UI designers (rasterman, miguel, etc) on large amounts of lsd and other psychadelic drugs in order to increase their creativity. this should be looked upon as something that _has_ to be done in order to compete in terms of UI with the marijuana-soaked haze in cupertino that produced everything that makes the mac os (and mac os x) good to use.
Of course the downside is we'll probably wind up with enlightemnent 0.18's source code just being the words "NUMBER FOUR. NUMBER FOUR. NUMBER FOUR." over and over.. so maybe we should only let them have it during the design phase or something. i dunno.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Yes, choice is good. If you were willing to get a little abstract, one could argue that open source presents choices because it allows the user to change/improve the code.
As for the GNOMEvsKDE thing, I try to stay out of it- but I will give my opinion just this once. KDE was started first and because of the license of the KDE's preferred toolkit, GNOME was started. GNOME is the Free Software Foundations answer to KDE. Besides being all free software, GNOME has a very different internal design than KDE.
As far as internal design goes, GNOME has better design theory but the implementation is truly not complete. As for externals, GNOME is really more advanced though I give the nod to KDE here. Even though GNOME has better theme support (I never tried the goodies in KDE 1.1.2 so please forgive me) and more pleasing to the eye, KDE has a more defined look and more uniform interface- so that is why KDE barely wins out on the externals. I have never tried KRASH or know anything about KDE 2.0 but it is my opinion that KDE is losing ground to GNOME even though KDE seems to be getting more users.
Real men dump cores! Read my journal, I am neat.
Does anyone know anywhere unstable gnome debs can be found. I just want to give unstable a lookover and not have to deal with the source cleanup. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Then Gnome appears to be catching up ;-) All KDE devel has been on kde2, which is a big rewrite, for almost a year now. Then Gnome doesn't seem so close... Even prior to 1.1.2, most work was going to 2.0.
And so he says to me you wanna be a bad guy? And I say yeah baby I wanna be bad! I says surf's up space ponies I'm making gravy without the lumps!
"Gnome was Miguel's answer to KDE, and later was adopted by the FSF....but that is a story in itself, since I thought WindowMaker was initially adopted as the 'official' environment of the FSF."
Hmmm, why is it that no one ever joins GNU, but everyone keeps getting declared a part of it? I remember the day when WindowMaker was adopted. The WindowMaker page had a statement similar to "Apparently, we are now the official window manager of the GNU Project..."
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
What is up with all the people calling Microsoft facist? They are a business. Their sole purpose in life is to make money. Thats what businesses do, thats what they've been doing since they were invented. Any fair way for them to make money is fine. Thats the whole concept of capitalism. Now, you can argue capitalism vs. the world all you want, but thats pointless. True, some of Microsoft's actions are unfair, and yes their software is pretty bad, but consider this, what are their intentions? Their tactic of "embracing" and extending is a beautiful business plan. It has made them a ton of money. If you don't like the fact that it put wennie companies out of business, then thats your problem. If you want and alternative, then write it yourself! And thats what the open source community has done. They don't bitch about MS, they shut up and code. But there are still those jackasses who think there is something ethically wrong with Microsoft. Granted, their practice or not giving discouts to those OEMs who did not abide by their wishes is unfair, but thats the only real fault I can find with them. Many of you also forget that the companies that MS put out of business are better gone than here. Its called evolution. The good companies, EA, Inuit, Adobe, etc, are still going strong, mainly because their products kick ass! MS hasn't been able to beat them. However, Netscape et al, have been beaten. Mainly because their products weren't good enough. Have you used communicator lately? A web browser should not take longer than Office to start up! Also, enough bitching about Windows and its problems. It can't be made more stable than it is now. Win9x is based on DOS, and they can't get rid of DOS support even if they want to. People would be in an uproar. NT is new, and if you've ever used it, its a damn good OS. On my computer, 300MHz 192 meg RAM, NT 4 is faster than win98 and just as fast as Linux. (I use Photoshop, 3D studio and VC++) It still has the best OpenGL support of any OS available on x86. But I digress. You have the ardant NT users pointing to the Linux users calling them commies. You have the ardant Linux users pointing to MS and calling it facist. But in truth the only facist commies are the guys who think their way is the "One True Way"(TM)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
...never have. I like the apps that are developed for each, but I just don't like the "look and feel" of either desktop. It feels too much like I'm in windows. Then, there is the problem of my memory getting eaten up very quickly in either of them.
I'm a window maker guy all the way. It looks cool, and it's nice and fast.
Right now though, I'm at work, on NT.
--
The editorial in Linux Magazine in the latest issue argues for settling of either kde or gnome and abandoning everthing else in favour of pushing one to being finished and creating a "standard". Well, ideas like that would have left Linux in the dark ages. I couldn't believe that the editor of a Linux mag could miss the point of the OSS revolution so completely. Go get a copy and tell him how it is.
I've been playing with blackbox window manager lately and I think it's great! Very clean, nice menus, and runs kde or gnome apps without breaking a sweat. My problem with gnome and kde is that they are customizable to a point, but no matter what you do, it always looks like gnome. If you want a really good looking and customizable desktop, run enlightenment by itself. Much nicer IMHO. Anyway, I think that there's a lot of great reasons to have multiple window managers, multiple GUI environments etc.