Microsoft Unveils The X Box

markf was one of the first people to e-mail us about the ahead of schedule unveiling of the X-Box. As those who have watched the news, Microsoft's gaming console has been a close secret. Now we know it's going to be about 600 Mhz, DVD-ROM drive, 64+ megs of RAM. Gates went on to talk about the market, which is very interesting. They'll be aiming at Nintendo, Sony and Sega, the triumvirate of the Gaming Market. The machine itself will be Windows-based, and will support online "stuff" - although only through high speed connections. I've got to admit - this thing looks really interesting. They are hoping for a Christmas 2001 release, which will make competing with Dolphin and PSX2 difficult.

Comments

Console game system == PC

[apirkle]

PCs and consoles are becoming one and the same, to the point that they're even going to be capable of running the same software. We've seen lots of console emulators for the PC...how long is it going to be before PC emulators for our favorite console systems start popping up?

And of course, somebody will _have_ to port Linux to it, and then add on some better hardware and then.....oh, hey, look, its a low-end PC with a TV instead of a monitor!

Nothing like reinventing the WebTV :)

Why don't other consoles use commodity parts?

[JohnZed]

I think that the interesting thing about the X-Box is the heavy reliance on off-the-shelf components (standard x86 chip and graphics from NVidia). In a lot of ways, this seems pretty rational, especially for the main CPU. After all, the market of 100+ million x86 users has created a pretty damn good economy of scale, so you can make up in brute force what you lose in terms of gamer-targetted features (polygons, etc.).
Why don't other consoles use such commodity parts? Has it been an issue of price? Or is this the first time that the IA-32 architecture has been able to provide a good enough price/performance ratio with respect to graphics-related features? Microsoft could have easily gone with MIPS, as WinCE runs on that platform and NT used to. Just think of how cheap a 600 mHz chip will be in late 2002, when this box is only a year out on the market! Who knows, they might just break even.
--JRZ

Re:Why don't other consoles use commodity parts?

[slim]

When you're selling hardware in the quantities Sega or Sony or Nintendo expect to sell a console, the whole *unit* is a commodity part.

The advantage in using "off the shelf" components would be the enonomy of mass-production. Enough Playstations/Dreamcast/Whatever get made, that the economy of scale eventually becomes a given.


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Re:MS is dead in the water...

[Frac]

I think everyone was being just as(even more) critical when Sony rolled out their Playstation. "What, we already have Nintendo and Sega - Sony makes walkmans and compact disk players, they won't survive in the console market!"

The X-box is attractive because the architecture will be very close to the commodity PCs. That means it will be very easy for companies to port games to and from the X-box and Windows 9x. Easy to port translates to less money to reach a larger audience. A conformity to a single standard (in terms of hardware and software) also means developers can be more comfortable in pushing the limits of whatever they have, as opposed to creating a game for the lowest common denominator.

Assuming Microsoft doens't fsck it up too much, they have a very solid chance of taking marketshare, not from Sony, but mainly from Sega and Nintendo's lackluster lineup these days.

Console gamers only care about the games, not the internals. That's why consoles are so popular! You don't have to care about which chips you have; all games are compatible!

Oh, and I doubt the X-box will be upgradable - that's why they are choosing the specs now...

Full X-Box Specs and Movies.

[ratsdliw]

Here are the spec from Microsoft X-Box Site

600 MHz x86 compatible CPU Custom 3-D NVIDIA graphics processor
64 MB of RAM (unified memory architecture)
Custom 3-D audio processor
8GB hard drive
4X DVD drive with movie playback
Four game controller ports
Expansion port
Proprietary A/V connector
100 MBps Ethernet


All this for $299 USD
I think the coolest thing that the X-Box has going for it is the badass 3D support (Comeon NVDA is pretty damn cool) and the 100 MBps Ethernet.
It looks like this puppy is going to be broadband ready with this fast network port.
If the price is cheap enough these thing could make decent Linux web servers or firewalls.
I'm sure M$ would love that. :) (I'm sure the would need some more ram tho)

There is also a mpg demo of the 3D capabilities of the x-box. It's a demo of mech. You can grab it here for MPEG and here for QT4

Re:Windows based

[Frac]

I personally don't want my game crashing in the middle of me playing. And as we all know that if it is going to be windows based OS, then it wll crash at the most random times.

I don't get it - I'm not a big fan of Microsoft crashes, but are there actually people that think Microsoft run timers in their OSes set to crash at random intervals?

Windows 9x crashes so much because there are so many legacy applications they have to support, and memory protection-wise they don't care that much. Windows 2000 already proves to be impressively stable for 35 million lines of code.

Since X-box will be running on a unified spec, it's very doubtful that it will crash that much, since they have a much much smaller set of hardware/software to test and make robust.

I personally don't understand where MS gets off thinking that they can just jump into the Console gaming market. And if they do pull it off it will just go to show how much weight they do pull with Mindshare of the average Joe

So in other words, they suck if they fail, and they suck if they succeed?

Question:

[Tarnar]

Will the X Box be another moving target?

Why do I ask? Simple. It has a hard drive. And supports high speed online connections. Does this mean that we'll see patches and software upgrades from MS? They live on these updates in the desktop world.. Releasing second rate products and promising fixes, leaving people begging for more. With a moving target, will we see DLL Hell?

A Static Target is a Good Thing on consoles. Early on in the consoles lifespan, people code on the API's. Then they start coding on the low-level. As they get better, programs get better. Just look at how far the PSX has been pushed with FF8 or Chrono Cross.

We'll wait and see I suppose. Incoherent post brought to you by lack of sleep and lots of Coke/Code.

Where will Microsoft make money here?

[Thagg]

First, it's interesting that none of the pre-announcment announcements said anything about graphics -- which is what makes all the difference in a console. All the rumors have had it that nVidia was going to be making the chips.

But, my real question is, "Why make this box?" It appears that it will be a pretty damn standard Wintel box. It is hard to imagine that it wouldn't be trivial to port games back and forth between the console and the PC platform.

The problem with this, from the X-Box manufacturer's point of view, is that it destroys the typical game profit center -- that is, that all consoles are sold at breakeven at best; if not at a significant loss. The money is made back in licensing of the games. But the PC game platform has no licensing cost whatsoever!

So -- it will have to be something like this -- to get the 'Plays in X-Box' cutesy-poo logo on your game, you'll have to pay a royalty to MS -- and MS would require that even games that are for PCs would have to have the royalty paid (or not undersold, anyway) Otherwise, would people really pay the extra 10 bucks to get the game for their console that they could otherwise get for their PC?

Perhaps, you say, the X-Box will has some dramatically great API for games that is not available on Windows, and legally protected from reverse engineering somehow. Would Microsoft really do this, really cut off their nose to spite their face? Microsoft dumped a lot of money into something called 'Talisman' a few years back; it was meant to be a revolutionary game enabling technology. Basically, instead of rerendering 3D geometry every frame, it was rendered every 10th frame (say) and then the various elements were distorted into position in subsequent frames. Nothing has been heard of Talisman in a year or so, though; even though MS made a huge hoopla at Siggraph about it. Still, it was a stupid idea then, and even more stupid today.

I really don't see how they are going to get the licensing money that is critical to the game market.

The obvious answer, of course, is that they are not in it for the money, at least, not in it for the gaming money. They are in it to establish a beachhead in the living room; a box with a highspeed line connecting your eyeballs directly back to MS. The myriad ways of milking that connection for money are left to the reader's imagination.

thad

Double standard.

[Matt2000]

I find it ridiculous the number of people on here that are simultaneously deriding this MS X-Box thing as a closed product, while pumping up sony and its playstation line.

Sony is the king of closed and proprietary standards (or at least non-standard) that it refuses to open, and refuses to let drop. Memory sticks, mini-discs and all manner of crazy ports for their machines.

I like Sony's products myself, but only because they allow fun games on their platforms and generally have a good design sense.

In some way a more moral company than Microsoft? Unlikely.


Hotnutz.com - Funny

Danger will Robinson Danger!!!

[Mr. Flibble]

My fear:

This gamebox becomes a sucess.

Now let me explain why.

There is no doubt that MS will push DirectX and all their other game API's on this system. I doubt that it will be designed to implictly support OpenGL. (But I bet it runs quake anyhow...)

The danger that this poses is the integration of the PC into a gaming machine. Now don't get me wrong, I play plenty of games on this machine. The danger comes in the form of more games for a single platform -Windows-. Will the games for the MS box run on a Mac or a Linux box? No. (Maybe under VMWare.) If MS corners this market then they have a great opportunity to control the game market. If they do this the odds of people choosing an alternate OS (Linux, Beos, BSD et al.) is slim.

If all the good games, or just a majority of them are run under Windows (as they are now) or on this box MS has a very good leverage point over the desktop market again. Think about this: Some parent buying a home computer. The child says "don't get the one with Linux on it! It can't run Bozo Spacewars XXVII!!" Now, Linux could dual boot as we know, but its the percetion or as they like to say "mindshare" that is important here.

Microsoft is trying to kill two birds with one stone here. They are trying to generate a viable gaming market for their OS/Firmware, and they are trying to mantain/expand their monopoly grip on software.

If this becomes a success I can only see games that are developed across multiple platforms to decrease.

No sir. I don't like it.

FUD for Developers..

[eshefer]

The reason MS is "announcing" a product that is MORE then a year into the future, using Nvidia Chips that are'nt in production, yet, is to get developer support. now.

But more importantly to get developers NOT to develop for compeating systems NOW.

It's classic MS tactic: announce something that is far into the future so people will believe that MS will be dominant in that market, just to scare of developers from spending resources and developing for alternate platforms.

The alternative platform being PS2, dolfine, and in the PC space Linux and mac.

It's not going to work. It's too little, too late.
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Funny...

[Black Parrot]

Last week it was a 1.5GHz machine. Now it's down to 600MHz.

Best you grabbed one now; they may be down to 12KHz next week.

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Re:Who is MS Selling this To?

[Bob Ince]

I see this thing going the way of the 3D0 and the CD-I.

An interesting comparison. Both of these were, like the X-Box, reference designs, to be manufactured by OEMs, rather than single, managed hardware platforms.

Has this strategy ever worked for games consoles? ISTR the MSX was supposed to have been quite popular in Japan, or something, but I never met one in Europe myself...

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Don't I have one of these already?

[CapnGib]

I already have a PC that runs windows and plays windows games. Why the hell would I want another one that hooks up to the TV? At least on my windows box I can write my thesis, download porn , burn some cd's and even boot to linux.

I don't see why developers woule like the idea of porting windows games to a PC-ish, windows-ish console. Just release the friggin windows games! For all the crap linux people talk about windows, it sure has a hell of alot of decent games. (Counter-strike beta 6 comes out today)

I also own a PSX (can't play gran turismo 2 on a windows machine.) I will likely buy a PSX2 (gran turismo 2000 or somwthing like that should be out.) I will likely buy the next latest-and-greatest video card for my windows machine. I'm pretty sure I will NOT buy an X-Box.

Re:Christmas 2001?

[belgin]

I suspect that the Emotion Engine performs significantly better than it's 300Mhz would suggest.

It does.

It is a 350 MHz 128 bit chip. Compare this to a 600 MHz 32 bit Athalon. Be sure you include the 150 MHz dedicated Graphics subchip in the PS2 also. Now consider that this system is designed to do one thing absolutly spectacularly: audio-visual. The X-Box is off the shelf components, making it easier to program for, but if you want to do the stuff that the Emotion Engine does as easily as starting up, you have to code like a demon and REALLY know what you are doing. An NVidia graphics card would help the X-Box, but I'd wager that one year after the X-Box's release, its graphics are still far behind where the Playstation 2 is one year after its US release. (Keep in mind... that is at least three months before the X-Box comes out!)

Unless MS puts a lot more time and effort into both innovating and product testing than is normal in their business model, I have a hard time seeing this as anything other than a cheap PC with gimmicks. The console strategy is quite different than the mass-produce, hook, charge to upgrade methodology they have used successfully in the past.

I am interested to see what they actually do, rather than just condemning them on they will probably do.

B. Elgin

They could replace Sega...

[belgin]

I know, I know. Most folks don't have any faith in MS's ability to develop much of anything of quality. Their move is likely, however to be in some way opportunism.

The Dreamcast was Sega's official last console system. They are changing to a software company.

Microsoft might have known this, because they were working with Sega to allow CE to run on the Dreamcast.

MS wanted into the market, and they know an opening is coming up soon. Whether they have anything good or not, there is room in the console market for three major players. Sony won't squash them, because they aren't worth it. Nintendo won't kill them, because they are much more worried about Sony and have lost most of their ability to do so. Sega is quitting the game anyway.

The end result is that MS has a WIDE opening. If they can get in and establish a beachhead in the console market, they aren't too worried about losing money right off the bat. The simple trick for them is to become good enough with their first console to stay in the running. Once they are a respected (?) name in console gaming, they can continue from there, because they are going to do their damnedest to make sure that anyone with an X-Box is hooked in some way and has to stay linked to them.

I am curious to see how they actually do it. Some of us may find the results are good enough to overcome our collective loathing of MS. Just because they usually make medocre products, doesn't mean they always do.

B. Elgin

Possible Linux gaming box?

[RayChuang]

Folks,

I think EVERYBODY is missing the point here about XBox.

Given that XBox is more or less a variant of a standard x86-compatible desktop PC, there's one thing the hardware could become: a flat-out superb Linux gaming box.

It appears that an XBox machine could in theory run a slight-modified variant of most commercial Linux distributions as easily as the modified Windows Microsoft plans for this machine. So, instead of running DirectX, we'll use OpenGL to access the registers on the new nVidia chipset.

I have this sneaky feeling that as part of the settlement deal on the US v. Microsoft case, Microsoft will provide the specifications necessary to run gaming applications written completely in Linux on XBox.

BTW, for those who still think x86 PC's can't compete with console machines in terms of graphics quality for games, has anyone bothered to see Quake III Arena, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress, Flight Simulator 2000, and others at 1600x1200 32-bit color using a graphics card that has the nVidia GeForce 256 chip? It is just flat-out STUNNING to look at, especially on a 19" or larger monitor.