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MPAA Investigates Apex DVD Player
RiscTaker writes: "Wired reports that the MPAA is investigating the Apex DVD player because of its ability to avoid region coding, Macrovision and CSS.
" I bought my Apex 600A last week at the former home of the $99 iOpener, and found that the secret-menu hack described at nerd-out worked flawlessly. Perhaps the MPAA would like to invest in a time machine to revisit the days of mercantilism, or to stuff the encryption cat back into the bag it's long since vacated.
I have an Apex, and it is some what useful, I mostly bought it to play mp3's easily (like at a friends house) without a computer. It costs about as much at component mp3 player so why not get the DVD also. The macrovision turn-off will allow you to record DVD to tape, but these devices have been available for years. (some at very low cost) The region override is basically available in most any DVD-ROM player, so nothing new there. The CSS option seems not to work or to do nothing or I do not understand how it works. None the less, there is nothing really new in this box, it basically is a good combination of things in one box at a reasonable cost. You should definitely visit nerd-out web site for the full details. They have a very complete discussion group.
You have no freaking idea what you're talking about, do you? Exon was a Democrat. Period.
New XFMail home page
/bin/tcsh: Try it; you'll like it.
And if you look into region coding a bit more, you will see that it is the content providers indeed who want to enforce that regime.
New XFMail home page
/bin/tcsh: Try it; you'll like it.
Not officially, but they're sold out all over the country, and some people have reported that their orders were abruptly cancelled. My guess is that when they become available again, you will have to commit to an ISP contract to buy one.
I'd buy one, but Circuit City's out of stock again. I have them set to e-mail me when they get them in, though; should I tell Slashdot when they're in?
I'd buy it even without the secret menu, though; it's the least expensive world-friendly DVD player I can find (always a plus for us College Anime Fans On a Tight Budget ^_^ ). Granted, you have to do a bit of a hack to get the world-friendly aspect going, but it's still a great thing.
As for why it's there, MPAA is going to have a hard time proving that it was put in there to promote piracy. Isn't it obvious? It was a debugging feature. That's why it was hidden in the first place, not unlike most video game codes; consumers were never meant to know about it. But it was a necessary feature to put in so that the player could be tested, and it made the player easier to service by facilitating diagnostics. The menu was meant to be kept secret forever, but some Big Bad Hacker Guy found it and spilled the beans.
It's just security through obscurity, folks. But this time there's a real benefit, and we also benefit from it by being able to thwart the unethical practices of the motion-picture industry (namely, regional encoding as a means of artificially raising prices in certain regions) without doing anything illegal.
One thing that gets my goat is that a lot of the 'news for nerds' on slashdot is absolutely USA specific.
/. is being forced down your throat against your will. You can get the Slash code, you can get Linux, you can get Apache, you can get mod_perl, you can get MySQL, you can get a computer, and you can sign your own contract for a high-bandwith connection to the 'Net. So go build your own "News for Nerds" site if this one isn't international enough for you.
Now, if you want to complain about the actions of U.S. comapnies in Australia, I sympathize. There's a reason why I watch Canadian television more than U.S. TV.
But stop whining about a site owned by a U.S. company with its server located in the U.S. written by citizens of the U.S. being U.S. specific. It's not like
Steven E. Ehrbar
Therefore, my guess is that the information necessary to enable multi-region is coming from the manufacturers themselves as part of a deliberate strategy.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Check this link for multi-region hacks for loads of different DVD players.
:-)
Enjoy
If I recall, all the keys have been compromised. It sounds like the next generation of DVD players is going to have to include a new feature: support for all the keys. If one key doesn't work, just use a different one.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
from the article:
"Twenty-four manufacturers use the same menu chip as in ours, so they all have
the same capability," said Colton Manley, a spokesman for Apex, in Ontario,
California. Certainly our intention is not to sell anything that will cause any problems."
So what chip is that?
If everyone starts asking for it by name and the manufacturers start realizing that this "mis"-feature sells boxes, maybe there will be more "unintentional" slip-ups like this.
Look around, and choose your own ground. -PF
Replying to my own message. :)
Doesn't look like nerdout's web server is too happy about it, though. I've got a quick and dirty mirror (hey, it works) setup here:
http://members.xoom.c om/areal ms0/Secret_Menu/secret_menu.html
No $#!+? Whereas most other DVD players play the movie whilst it's still encrypted, and let you watch the white noise, I suppose?
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
The Samsung 709 and 909 are "crackable" via
a special remote code. I would also suspect the Thomson 3600 which looks like a repackaged samsung 909.
What this shows (along with the PSX2) is that members of the DVD consortium aren't taking the (ridiculous) region code rules seriously.
Since anybody in the world can order Region 1 disks from amazon.com and others, and since nearly every player is modifiable (via menus, special remote codes or straight hardware fixes) this region code stuff is never going to be effective. I say just forget about it and start releasing films in theaters at the same time all over the world.
-haffi
Well, I'm sure APEX has signed many NDAs and agreements to be licensed as long as they sell DVD players, and such, so while the secret may no longer be a secret, they would still be breaking contract if they made a unlicensed player.
You can get the Shinco Multi-Region player from Grenfell Hi-Fi in Adelaide for $599. It plays MP3s, too, I believe. I think they'll ship.
Or you can get the Toshiba which you can re-chip to play Multi-Region, and comes with free DVDs for $699 from Myer.
I posted this on kuro5hin yesterday, on a similar story (about the Playstation2 bypass thing):
Anyway, I didn't realize that some had hidden menus & stuff - that's pretty cool.
Has anyone got one of the Multi-Region Shinco players that play MP3 CDs? How well does the MP3 playback work?
MPAA: Malignant, Pompus, Archaic Assholes.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Besides, if someone is activly re-reading these posts in late 2055, expecting something of value, then they deserve to be disappointed.
and they'll wonder how we could have possibly eaten all those hot grits.
--
+&x
First of all - IANAL, but all this DVD stuff does has me considering law as a career.
Watch your wording - what you said is technically wrong on a few counts. CSS is a <b>trade secret</b>, <i>not</i> a copyright, and as such is suubject to different laws. Because of that, they could go ahead and sell an unlicensed player as long as they can prove that the CSS decryption information is in the open and therefore no longer qualifies as a trade secret.
It's not like some company couldn't go make a DVD player without a CSS license now; it's just that companies are afraid of the DVD CCA's high-paid attorneys. It may seem easy to show that CSS no longer qualifies as a trade secret, but why would any intelligent company take that kind of a risk when they can just pay a small licensing fee?
And just to clarify, the reason that Apex could get in serious trouble for selling unlicensed players is not really the act of doing so, but the act of doing so after having signed an agreement to get this information - despite the fact that it's now in the public domain. If some new company created an unlicensed player, they couldn't really be subject to a fair trade secret infringement suit, as the mere fact that they were able to gain knowledge of the secret shows that it is no longer such (not that anyone would try and go against DVD CCA lawyers to prove that anyway).
So although most companies could probably put out their own, unlicensed DVD players without breaking the law (which would be the case were CSS patented and not a trade secret), the scare tactics keep them from doing so.
-- Imagine how much more advanced our technology would be if we had eight fingers per hand.
Thanks for spotting that broken link - I've fixed it now. :)
mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
So what is the significance of the numbers 80 101 110 116 105 117 109 to Intel??
Switching to Linux can be an adventure!
What are you talking about? Clinton signed the CDA (a far greater crime, being a direct violation of his oath of office, than those for which he was impeached).
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
More importantly, they could revoke Apex's CSS player key. All future DVDs would be mastered without an Apex key, so they could not be played on an Apex player.
That's the way it was supposed to work, anyway. Given all the developments since then (particularly the CSS crack,) I doubt the MPAA would follow through on the "DVD player death penalty."
MSK
BBBBBLLLLLPPPPPHHHHH!!!!!
If they should be so audacious as to try any legal actions against the current owners of these units, I will proudly give them an American reply: You can take my player when you can shove it up your ass and carry it away!
That may not be such a good idea
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
Well, it's obvious that in the presence of players where region encoding can be disabled easily (without even opening the player, thus voiding the guarantee) other players stand no chance. It's what people want. The true problem here is with the MPAA which is thinking they can sell a product to the consumers with inbuilt features working against the consumers interests. It didn't work with copyprotected VHS players and it didn't work with DAT Tapes.
Either the product flops or someone comes up with a product where these features are disabled (Yeah, "developer feature", there is really a need to make it accessible via the remote control. And the message "You shouldn't be here" is a really good joke, since it implies that the enduser can read it (or was it meant for the developers?)). So we can assume that, since DVD players without region encoding sell better there'll always be someone to make em, if not in the US then somewhere else. Probably their marketing department even leaks the information to some magazines to ensure a good rating.
It'll be fun watching the MPAA trying to put this genie back into the bottle, since now it's their claimed megadollars of negative income versus that of the DVD player makers who don't want their players sit on the shelves until DVD is an obsolete format. The MPAA really is in a no win situation here, they can't annoy the player manufacturers too much since they might get the idea to come up with a format of their own (this they should hve done from the start, it would have been far less trouble) and less sold players = less sold DVDs, an equation that even the MPAA should understand. So the only thing they can do is looking foolish, but they've practised that well.
This also sheds new light on the DeCSS debate, since the MPAA can't sue the DeCSS folks but leave others who basically do the same thing (remove the copy protection) alone.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Nope, but they could destroy Apex and make other companies who might *wink* mistakenly leave such a devel feature in their product very frightened. I personally don't believe it was a mistake. Rather the ability was an easter-egg. A free prize for those swift/lucky enough to find it.
I personally would like to see more pseudo-illegal/contraversial addons in consumer products. It would be wonderful if my TV would delete my electric bill when I choose channel '999' repeatedly or my toaster gave me the porn channel when I cooked rye bread.
You can't copyright numbers. 586 isn't copyrightable, why should 0xc0 0x00 0x05 0x55.. be??
.sig: Now legally binding!
I'm not. 586 wasn't an Intel reference, I just hit some number keys with my right hand. I was trying to point out that numbers themselves cannot be afforded copyright protection. If the numbers signified the chars in this post, they can be, but the CSS keys are numbers and numbers only. I cannot copyright Pi, no matter how much creative effort went into calculating it out to the 1000^1000000'th digit, I can't copyright it. I can copyright a book on how I did it, or patent the novel time-slice solution I uncovered, but no protection is afforded the number.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Slash doesn't like much of anything these days, em being a notable example. Especially in extrans mode, which is what the author of the parent used.
Besides, if someone is activly re-reading these posts in late 2055, expecting something of value, then they deserve to be disappointed.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Personally, I think they'll be far more interested in the secret society of flap-jack eating nocturnal Ninja frequenting the place. Grits pose no historical mystery; Pouring a warm, grits-like substance down one's clothing has been popular since ancient Greece, where they used warmed mud.
Let's just hope they don't get to see our Karma. Sig 11 may be worshipped as the Oracle of Slash if that happens.. I just hope I end up as one of the demigods..
.sig: Now legally binding!
Nope, it's still there. The link in the story was wrong, it's really http://www.nerd-out.com/a pex/Secret_Menu/secret_menu.html. Try there.
Take what Mattel did with the Cyber Patrol program. MPAA and the DeCSS program, and now this.
This sort of stuff is going to happen. The big problem is that the (crappy) laws that we have now days overlap each other. Each side trying to show that there side is the correct side. The Digital Millenium Copy Right Act is a really good example. It prevents people from doing what they have traditionaly been entitled to do by law.
Besides, I've noticed that a lot of this stuff is comming from overseas in Sweden and the likes. DeCSS, cp4hack, I think both originated in Sweden? Do the US's laws apply over there? I don't think so.
Since I really don't know anything about laws, and it probably shows, go ahead and take it how you will. But I think that most people will agree with me in saying that these big corps to take things, for the most part, a little to far. They think they can throw a little money at the problem and fix what they screwed up.
In the long run new tech will eventually come out that will allow us to copy a DVD just like you can copy a VHS. It's going to happen and there is nothing they can do to stop it. (I personally never understood the region codes, maybe someone could explain it to me. But, if I buy a DVD should I not be able to play it where ever I want?)
They can send a notice to all regestered owners informing them that they have 'defective' merchandise that may be returned for free exchange. Those regestered owners that do not return them for exchange may find the police and MPAA represenatives knocking on the door. I can just see the headlines,
:-)
"Local Police and MPAA Officials Confiscate Illegal DVD Players!"
Yeah, great publicity for the MPAA. Confiscate those DVD players! Just think of all the good will the MPAA will create doing a house-to-house search for those that didn't register the players. Let's see the MPAA call unknowing consumers Pirates, and take them to court! Of course, that will never happen
"Open code, in other words, can be a check on state power." -Lawrence Lessig
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
There are *so* many holes in the DVD players, formats, etc., etc. that it won't be a problem for anyone to get around these "features" the MPAA wants.
And just how legal is this "region-coding" crap, anyhow? I remember they tried the same thing with consoles and audio and failed. (anyone ever played Golden Axe 3 in America? Anyone set the 'copyright bit' on your mp3's?)
A business isn't going to sell a product that have added features that make consumers not buy it. Well, unless they have a monopoly or something. Otherwise, a competing standard without these features will win out. The MPAA will find this out, hopefully the hard way.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I have been wondering for a while just how censored the movies I rent at the video store are.
I've seen a couple of director's cuts of movies, and have then looked at the released version and found that much was lacking.
From many of the comments I have read, I now understand that Region Coding is an attempt by the movie industry to balance the need to sell movies and the need to maintain political capital in the U.S. specifically. That is, explicit content in movies released in the U.S. would rally the puritan special interest groups and their congressional representatives against the movie industry. I suppose that there is some incentive to tailor content to foreign countries as well, in order that the distribution channels maintain political capital in their respective regions. I suppose that this is an issue with movie studios in other countries as well, but the U.S. certainly has political issues regarding sex and nudity.
I would certainly love to see an uncensored version of Eyes Wide Shut. I'm disappointed that in a country like the U.S. that was built on freedom of speech, I cannot obtain uncensored versions of popular movies at my local video store. Perhaps I was naive, but now I'm truly disgusted. I feel like I'm getting ripped off- like I only got a 'lite' version of something, or a half-cup of coffee, or watered down liquor.
Perhaps it is not the threat of unauthorized duplication, or even of there being alternatives to licensed players, but the threat of political confrontation which drives the movie industry to pursue DeCSS, since the open source nature of the product would allow region codes to be easily defeatable without threat of license revocation. God forbid some conservative senator's kid runs Linux and plays an uncensored version of some movie his foreign exchange student brought over from Japan. Unfortunately for the movie industry, 'Region Code Bypassing' doesn't carry the same emotional and PR weight as 'Piracy'.
Perhaps the true purpose of the DMCA and its access control provisions is to introduce a firmer basis for controlling access to pornography and other 'undesirable' content, by giving the content production industry a legal tool that gives them no excuse NOT to control access, and then holding them accountable if they don't control access effectively enough.
This may be a stretch, but since Congress doesn't have a friend in the Executive branch of government for their censorship agenda, they are using a cash rich music and movie industry as a surrogate Executive branch in order to establish a judical bulwark of precedents for their legislation.
I just don't buy the argument that Region Coding is just to prevent people from seeing stuff before it comes out locally. Censorship concerns are the real issue, and the only entity who wants to pursue censorship and has influence is Congress.
The question is, can and would Congress legislate against the movie industry if the movie industry stopped wholeheartedly 'enforcing' censorship through region coding and other means?
Mike
... is to check Google for a cached copy.
In this case...
Google's cached copy of the "hack"
Jay (=
After watching DVDs on my computer for most of a year, I nabbed an Apex AD-600A at the Circuit City in Dearborn, MI about a month ago (I live in Windsor, Ontario). It runs hot and it's obviously a cheap little econobox, but it runs every DVD I've thrown at it, in addition to PAL VCDs on my NTSC television -- including an Episode of a certain movie series which is not scheduled for DVD release for five more years. :-) It played the MP3s I tried, but I think it can only read Mode2 discs; at least one disc caused it to lock up, which I suspect was Mode1. I should also note that the player has locked up a couple of times during regular DVD playback, including one occasion when I was using the Zoom feature. In other words, use at your own risk. What with region hacks, the known Macrovision cheat for Cinemaster 1.028 and so forth, the Apex doesn't give you anything you can't get on the Internet. But for the price it's a honey of a machine, and it freed my from the necessity of watching movies at my computer.
"The deep-fried Mars bar is a symptom of a wider crisis." -- Nutritionist Ann Ralph, on the Scottish diet
Here's one of the lists I mentioned:
http://www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk/info/multiregion/
(This covers only software (menu) hacks.)
--Kevin
=-=-=-=-=-=
"Just take another hit 'cause you don't give a f*ck-
You're a junkie and you're proud!"
The playstation II has been out for so little time in Japan, and I have already seen instructions out there to bypass region codes. Why doesn't the MPAA attack Sony?
...I sincerely hope that Apex brings this bias up in court, and proves that the MPAA is behaving like a corporate hypocrite.
There are larger brand names out there than Apex who are making a laughing stock of the region coding system -- some of these companies are still too big for the MPAA to handle. My guess is that the MPAA is going up against this manufacturer simply because it figures it can throw enough legal red tape in the right places to stop it.
Would the MPAA try to push around Sony? how about Panasonic?
Wow ... they're selling for between $250 and $300.00 on eBay! No wonder you can't find them in the stores ... These decks are so valuable that people are actually making money speculating on them!
... it might have something to do with the MPAA "investigating" Apex, and the implicit threat that these decks will be withdrawn from the market. Better get yours while you can!
Gee
Nothing like a little artificial shortage to create a huge market for an otherwise-obscure product. A month ago, your average novice DVD deck purchaser probably had no idea what a "region code" or "macrovision" was, and could have cared less if his deck couldn't play European DVDs. After all, what is the market for PAL capable VCRs in the US?
With all of this publicity, "defeatable region/macrovision coding" has suddenly become the hottest selling point you can put on a DVD player these days. Apparently, in this case, it adds $100.00 in value to a $180.00 player.
Expect a similar frenzy at the end of April, when it becomes illegal to sell a VCR that allows you to copy a macrovision tape. Thousands of people who would have never even thought of copying a commercial tape will run out and get their macrovision-free recorder, just because the government is about to make them illegal.
The MPAA is it's own worst enemy.
By lobbying for copyright laws, and interpretations of copyright laws that are unenforcable, wildly out of touch with reality, and invasive to the end user, the MPAA and RIAA are eroding public respect and support for copyright law. They are creating an unprecidented level of public contempt for their entire industry.
What the hell do they think they are doing?
The 'secret menu' is hardly unique to the Apex,
:)
I've seen a list of instructions for 'hacking' prolly 30 different brands of player,
including some of the big names.
The Apex just happens to be the most well
publicised because of it's MP3 capability and
the nerds that feature attracts.
--Kevin
(Happy Apex owner)
=-=-=-=-=-=
"Just take another hit 'cause you don't give a f*ck-
You're a junkie and you're proud!"
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
I bought one of the last Apex players left in the Bay Area on a trip to San Jose a couple of weeks ago. It is one of the few region-free players that can play a PAL DVD on an NTSC set, although I haven't had a chance to verify PAL playback quality in person.
As far as normal NTSC playback goes, a quick video-quality comparison using S-Video output shows no major differences between the SD-600A and my old Toshiba SD-2006 (a $500 first-generation player with 10-bit video DAC). No playback problems were observed watching The Matrix, a common source of trouble for cheaper players such as this one.
I just ordered a Region 3 (Asian) copy of Eyes Wide Shut from Hong Kong. We'll see how the Apex handles the disc when it arrives, but I don't expect any problems. (Kubrick fans in the US should note that this is an uncensored, unrated NTSC release, which should be compatible with all region-free players in the States. In that sense, it should be preferable to the Europe/UK PAL releases that are starting to show up.)
It seems that the MPAA forgot to ask me, the consumer, if I wanted to participate in their DVD region-coding plan. Not that they're interested in my answer, but for the record, it's "No, thanks." Studios like Warner Brothers are giving DVD fans every reason in the world to look for workarounds.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
really here.
Even with the link broken, enough people seem to have figured out the correct link to bring the site to its knees. The text of the description is:
-------
Press POWER. Turn on the unit with NO DISC in the drive, make sure that the drive is closed.
Wait for "NO DISC" to display
Press SETUP. You will get the setup screen.
Press DOWN until PREFERENCES is highlighted.
Press STEP.
Press track BACK.|>| The "Loopholes" menu is displayed.
Here in the loopholes menu you can change things like Region ID, CSS Encryption, Macrovision, and all those good things. Note, of course, that "you should not be here."
----
The last item refers to a screen shot of the menu, with the very words "YOU SHOULD NOT BE HERE" at the bottom of the screen!
I hope they countersue and win. I am, quite literally, a coward when it comes to the MPAA - hence the AC post.
Are they you seriously trying to claim this DVD player is unusual?
A "very large" number of the top selling DVD players in the UK have simple handset hacks to play DVDs from other regions. The hardware reviews in some home cinema magazines actually report the hacks and their ease of use affects the player's rating. Sony players from most of the Far East regions play anything when they arrive at the shop, at least the ones I've used do.
One of the UK's biggest supermarket chains (Tesco) recently went on record, in the national press, as saying the "all regions" capability of the cheap and cheerfull player they sell is the main reason they're selling out.
I've never found a dvd my player won't play. And thats an official UK pioneer model.
Damm those Japanese. Curse the Euro-swines. No respect for US law.... does anyone?
0daymeme.com: Great stuff.