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DNA To Solve History's Mysteries?
ATKeiper asks: "DNA evidence has been used in criminal trial proceedings for years, perhaps most notoriously in the Simpson murder trial. Now, however, people are just starting to awaken the possibility that DNA might prove or disprove settled or forgotten cases. The son of Sam Sheppard, the doctor on whom the film The Fugitive was based, is trying to use DNA evidence to prove his dad's innocence. This week, a company announced it will use DNA profiles to investigate unsolved crimes. Genetic data has been used to determine whether Thomas Jefferson had an affair, and to examine a mystery of the French monarchy. Can Slashdot readers think of other historical debates which DNA evidence might help resolve definitively?"
His body is, uh, missing.
:-)
Someone mentioned the red-pigment test that determined that it wasn't blood on the shroud. The most notable proof that it wasn't the shroud that surrounded Christ was the carbon-14 dating that dated the shroud to about the 11th or 13th century (can't remember which). In any case, it's been dated as well after Christ's death.
I dunno about you, but when I was growing up, I was convinced that there was no way in hell I could be related to anyone in my family. They were just too friggin' wierd. Supposedly, many kids felt the same way. Maybe we should use DNA testing to get them to accept their roots earlier and move on to more important tasks, like asking their true parents for money.
Not exactly 'historic' as this is fairly recent, but...
I for one would like to see resolution to the West Memphis 3 murder case. The three that were convicted, for more reasons than I care to go into here, didn't receive anything even close to resembling justice. Police needed a scapegoat, victims' parents needed closure (or an alibi), and an ass-backwards community needed blood.
DNA testing could have answered the questions once and for all, but some inept or corrupt cops 'forgot' to collect evidence.
http://www.wm3.org
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
(well, Bill Mahr thought it was funny)
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
From my understanding of DNA testing, an isolated segment is tested. This segment is thought to be unique for each individual in the world. As much as I would like to beleive this, I have to think that DNA will never be used effectivly to convict people. Effectivly the tests only examine less than 1% of a full strand of DNA. At this time, I can't say that I could convict someone because two extremely small peices of DNA happen to appear identical. The odds are good, IMO, that this pattern repeat is possible in two people.
Now obviously if DNA tests reveal a signifigant difference, I beleive it can be used to rule out suspects in any investigation.
And just as a reminder, I'm not a scientist, and I don't know much about the DNA testing process so if someone does and can fill me in, I would appreciate it.
Bad Mojo
Bad Mojo
"If you can't win by reason, go for volume." -- Calvin
All it takes is a break in a specific gene to cause a tumor. Look at all the other genes and you can do a reliable match.
They can finally figure out who Anonymous Coward is...
_______
2B1ASK1
nah... I'd just hand out dandruff with my warez.
Seriously, though... same as with any dongle type copy protection... you don't hack the dongle, you rip out the code that checks for the dongle. Copy protection doesn't work.
Most of that stuff about the "lost tribes of Israel" is all bunk. While there really is an Ethiopian Jewish population, most of which immigrated to Israel after the declaration of the Jewish state, the real truth about the "lost tribes" that is accepted by most serious historians is that they were assimilated into the other local populations. Every time any slightly unusual ethnic group is found in a remote location, someone tries to claim that they've found one of the lost tribes of Israel, but nothing conclusive or even promising ever comes of it.
As someone famous once said, "Let it go cause man, they're gone." I think it was Stuart Smalley referring to keys lost in a river of molten lava.
Stuart Smalley did Daily Affirmations. Jack Handy did Deep Thoughts, which that is one of.
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
The main problem is that universalist religions like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Marxism and Political Correctness have suppressed ancient genetic social identities and replaced them with ideological social identities. This is an unstable situation. People have spent a very long time adapting to tribal groups at a genetic level. In modern civilization, however, tribal instincts are accomodated only when one's own tribal group is in power over one of the social identity of other groups -- meaning all but a tiny minority of people these days are living in a state of perpetual tribal repression.
Most of this repression depends on heavy investments in the maintanence of myths. When scientific data on past human gene flows start popping through the "bunk" that is "history", some tribal groups -- particularly those in power -- might decide it is time to press the "reset button" on the whole situation.
Seastead this.
There was an expedition down to bolivia a few year back to try to determine the final resting place of Butch Cassidy (He was supposed to have died in a shootout with the army and there is a grave in a remote village.)
There were also a series of experiments conducted on locks of hair, said to belong to Napoleon, to determine whether he died of arsenic poisoning on Elba.
Finally, I believe there is an ongoing effort to extract DNA from the Shroud of Turin.
I remember that one. That would be cool. If I remember correctly the so called "experts" did agree that he was billy the kid. They compared old photographs of him, specifically the shape of his ear. The ruling was that the gentleman was William H. Bonnie and his estate was able to collect back benefits after he died. I never did beleive it. The "Experts" claimed that the shape of the cartilage in your ear is as foolproof as fingerprints and compairing photos of him in the 1940 time frame to older pic's they determined that the ear was the same.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
Is there a way to test DNS for the presense of a soul? If so I can think of a certain Redmond, WA resident I would like to see tested.
And a few people in Washington, D.C. for that matter.
Yes, but contamination/environmental degradation makes it less likely that the DNA evidence will match the suspect's DNA, not more likely. If you have a sample that's a mixture of two people's DNA, it's less of a match for either of them than if it was pure (given that you test for the possibility that the DNAs got mixed).
Just like with any other evidence, a documented "chain of custody" is critical, so as to minimize the possibility of manufacturing evidence against a suspect (swapping vials, etc.)
As far as the time resolution of DNA forensic techniques, DNA in the environment will tend to get degraded to varying degrees, but you would usually still need to use other forms of evidence to prove your case (except perhaps in rape and paternity cases). When combined with other forms of evidence, DNA evidence can greatly enhance your confidence that you got the right culprit.
Of course, re: the O.J. case, you still have to have a jury that's competent enough to understand it...
LaoK
I have been told that the situation is a little different in the US, where DNA fingerprinting was adopted in the crime labs much earlier. A set of sites to cut the DNA has been chosen and the lengths of the fragments produced are used. This method has been critisized for not being understood well enough. This may have changed since I heard about it though. Anyone with details?
The exclusion capacity of DNA fingerprinting is something like 99.999%. That is, the probability of two people sharing the same pattern is 1 in a 100000. This means that if you can reduce the number of people that could have been involved in the crime significantly, then you can quite confidently convict someone. However, the strength of DNA fingerprinting is of course exclude people from an investigation.
Lars
__
Reality or nothing.
Why not test the old theory that Jimmy Hoffa was buried under the pile of makeup called Tammy Bakker?
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Given that even the slightest physical contact will leave DNA, howzabout examining JFK's magic bullet? Obviously you'd have to discount all the CIA DNA because they investigated the cubans and would probably have to handle the bullet. Oh, and the FBI probably examined it too. The mafia probably sold the bullet to Oswa^Hthe killer, so all that mafia dna would have to be thrown out as well. And if the CIA were talking to the cubans, then Castro's DNA could be eliminated as well.
All that superfluous DNA would probably mask Oswald's, so his probably wouldn't appear on the bullet. But as we've eliminated everyone else, it must have been him.
the Dead Sea scrolls are in large part thumbnail sized fragments that are damned hard to piece together. That hasn't stopped all sorts of scholars trying to do it (mostly with selotape). Interestingly you can now sequence the mtDNA (mitochondrial D-loop mutates very fast providing fine resolution distinction between individuals) of part of each fragment. This reveals whether the skin the fragments are written on all come from the same type of organism (within certain resolution limits). They've found that some of pieces come from goats and others from a springbok-like creature, so they should definitely not be put together. They claim that they're also able to identify the "herd" that each piece came from. I'm not so sure about that but it may be possible.
(The above post is meant as a _joke_, not meant to offend anyone)
~=Keelor
You know, this idea of the celebrity death that didn't really happen isn't a new one. Sure, we have examples of Elvis or Jim Morrison or even Anastasia. But the practice goes back much much further. The Emperor Nero, who some have called one of the most hated emperors of ancient Rome, had a notable cult following after his death and there were many 'false Neros' in the fifty or so years after his (supposed) death. Jesus Christ's resurrection is assumed by many scholars to be a manifestation of this tendency for humans to not accept the death of people they deem important (coupled with a grave-robbing, a practice which was prevalent at the time, prevalent enough that they emperor issued a decree outlawing it). The reasons why people assume that such people aren't dead is unclear, but most of the times, it's just disbelief that the person could be dead. Look at our own Propaganda. JFK is alive and well and leading the charge against Redmond, fighting for the democratic ideals he must have died for (nevermind that he got us into Vietnam, supported the whole Bay of Pigs fiasco, and manipulated government to his own personal whims).
Should we disprove these ideas? I say no. Elvis fans happen to like thinking that Elvis is alive. It gives them comfort and solace which the real world can't give them. Some people will never accept the truth, and trying to rub it in their face will only exacerbate the problem.
As someone famous once said, "Let it go cause man, they're gone." I think it was Stuart Smalley referring to keys lost in a river of molten lava.
PING soul.bill.microsoft.com
waiting...
waiting...
waiting...
Connection timed out.
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.