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Linux And Hip Hop
greybeardthelonely writes: "TwoMobile.com has a great story on how Linux is like hip hop and rap music. There's even a hip-hop penguin ..." You should read this, even if you can't stand rap music. Here's a quote: "Just like Linux, rap music was something that scared corporations until it was big enough to be profitable, and suddenly everyone wanted a piece of the action."
Before 1990, rap music was not thought of as being as profitable as other forms of music.
Why is that? Before 1990, the Billboard lists were not compiled based on actual data, rather they were based on hearsay on what albums were selling the most from the record stores.
When soundscan was implemented in the summer of 1990, I believe it was, the first week's top 10 from Billboard based on actual album sales featured a VERY big surprise.
NWA was in the top 10, and at #2 that week with the album 'Efil4zaggin'. They were #1 the next week. Darn good album too, even though Ice Cube left NWA before it.
Much is the same with Linux and Microsoft. The old metrics of OS sales do not apply anymore, since Linux uses a different distribution method than Microsoft, as well as the traditional distribution channels. Now that the actual population of linux servers is being measured against the actual population of MS servers, the metrics have changed. In other words, the old methods of measuring OS penetration (physical sales) are like the pre-Soundscan methods (hearsay).
I am looking forward to seeing actual counts of Linux servers in corporations. Boeing has been cited as having over 50,000. I would especially like to see what percentage of the corporate mail server market Linux has over MS and Lotus.
In this way, Linux is like rap music, in that it was ignored because of methods of measuring sales and distribution that did not truly reflect actual figures.
That's right. Some dude went out into a field, found a whole bunch of rocks, and started selling them. All of the suddent, he had the number one selling novelty/toy on the market. Of course, now you get laughed at if you have a pet rock.
That's right, Goddard was laughed at, but when he showed that you could launch anything with highly explosive fuel and not hurt yourself, governments started taking notice and now we have rockets everywhere.
People used to think that NASCAR was a joke, something that a bunch of hillbillies watched when grandma wasn't showing them how well she could hit squirrels with pine cones, but then they actually counted the number of hillbillies watching NASCAR and saw that it was way more than the number that was watching NBA basketball and realized it was The Next Big Thing(tm). Now we have Jeff Gordon losing to the Pepsi girl and drivers going to Hardee's in their racecars.
Hell, no one thought you could make a living selling computers out of your garage, but then everyone realized that it was cheaper and hipper to buy them from hicks than from corporate moneymen and now they have multi-gazillion dollar companies. Who woulda thunkit?
From humble a humble start as 'Chips N Dips' (or something), people started noticing Slashdot when they reported on things other than Microsoft. Now all of the sudden, Slashdot comments are quoted as insider comments ("Mr. Coward wrote in reply to the judge's findings, 'First post!'") and Slashdot is getting bought out by every major Linux company that exists.
Everyone thought they were a wannabe country, a bunch of freedom fighters who were being brats about paying their taxes, but whoa, they started noticing when America would walk into other countries, pick fights and, holy cow, win! Now everyone recognizes that no matter how small others may think you are, all you have to do is speak softly and carry a big stick and you can put a McDonald's wherever you damn well please.
People thought these Christian Jews were wackos until they started converting everything under the sun. The world took notice when the largest empire in the world adopted Christianity through its emperor and the rest, well, it's in the Bible somewhere.
Come on people, we can make useless analogies all day long. Linux is a phenomena, and you can compare it to a lot of other phenomena. Trying to say it's like something else, though, takes away a little bit from the true magic of what happened in this specific instance and begins a group down the road of trying to develop in a manner similar to some other reference, which takes away from the spontaneity of what may happen and may serve to derail the power of the change.
The development of Linux is like the development of Linux. Enjoy the ride; don't analyze it.
Everything big once started out small
How do you want it?
Rolin in my six fo, kickin it wit da boyz, we'z be in yo hood. I gotsa a linux distro in my lap, to take care o dat.
Thug programas gotsta die, no needs to ask why. I'z be setin UID 0, don't try to be a hero. Everyone drop yo niceness, i'm takin control of dis bitch.
Gotsta give props to da thugz from da way east side. Put ya hands in da air for Linus, Alan, Matti, Dave, Werner, and all da crew, wez be down wit you.
Peace to all my hommies, pour an ounce to dis.
-Wit much thugz luv, Mizaster Swizitch.
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
if you replaced their entire music
collection with rap music?
Probably about the same way they would
respond if you fdisked their hard drive
and installed linux.
Despite the fact that rap music has become
at least as commercialized as other types
of music, the culture that created rap music
is still heavily margainalized in society.
Chris Rock made a good point about the
margainalization of black culture. He said
something like, "yes, I make a lot of money doing
what I do, but how many white people out there
would trade places with me?
The question to be asked about linux is,
while there are a lot of people willing to
invest in a heavily-hyped company like Redhat,
how many of those people would install
linux on their computer?
Linux, like rap in its early days, needs glitz
to survive. I remember wondering why MC Hammer
decided to drop the MC from his name. I hope
we don't see companies like Redhat and VA
dropping linux from theirs.
Amazing magic tricks
His post may have been offensive to you, but that doesn't mean it was "racist." Additionally, I highly doubt his post was written with intentions to offend anyone or to be racist. Isn't intention really what's important? Maybe your response to him could have been much more valuable to him and the community at large had you phrased it in less offensive terms yourself, and if you had described to him why it was offensive and why it was of questionable taste / content without flaming him.
have you ever listened to rap?
that's how it sounds
- DIY (Do It Yourself) attitude
- The source code (3 chords) is available to be used by anyone
- Selling out and doing it only for the money is frowned upon
- Many Linux geeks and punks dress funny
- Started out with a small grass-roots community of people helping each other out, but has ballooned (more than once) into massive corporate acceptance
Cheers,Vic
With Rap music, bsck in the 1990s Geffen records refused to distribute music made by the Geto Boys because of the "racism" that Geffen felt was expressed in that music. This is the SAME company that was distributing Guns N Roses music. You know those "Police and niggers" stay out of my way guys... But Guns N Roses albums sold millions so I guess Geffen was able to overlook their shortcomings.
After NWA went platinum in a week with their second album, and Ice-T made a gazillion dollars for the record & movie companies with his OG album/New Jack City promotion.
Linux started out as a week-end project for Linus and a few scattered hackers around the world about 10 years ago. Now it's a global contender in the server OS market. Microsoft is actually paying people to tune their OS to be faster just because of an upstart free OS coded by hackers in their spare time.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Ever listened to Common? How about the Roots? Or the Coup? What about De La Soul? The list goes on.
None of these artists create music which fits your racist generalization. Most of the rap which has the elements shown in Signal 11's post is based on life experience. Maybe if you took a fair look at what you're attacking, you would begin to understand it.
If you don't like an art form, no-one is forcing you to listen to. But making negative stereotypes just shows your ignorance and immaturity.
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
Maybe so, but do you hear any big band music anymore? No... how about oldies? Do most people nowadays listen to oldies? Maybe your parents do, but rarely do younger people listen to them...
Ever heard of the group "Cherry Poppin' Daddies" or the so-called latest greatest thing - "Swing"?   I'm afraid we're going through a cycle of re-gurgitating music and the "younger people" (I'm not one of them) seem to find this all the rage.   Add to that the kajillion "remakes" of the "oldies" and you can see that we're rapidly losing our ability to come up with a fresh new style.   Probably 80% of the so-called rap today is literally taking snippets from the rap of 20 years ago and remixing it... and adding profanity to somehow make it appear different.   It's pathetic and lacks any creativity.
It seems that most music has a shelf life of around 30-50 years and then it's pretty much dead. Some people still listen to it, but not very many.
Then why is 18th and 19th century European and American-based orchestral or "classical" (as it has been defined) music still around, being played, and the style being copied to generate new works?   Why is "Jazz" and it's forerunners, "Blues" and "Ragtime" still around (and in the case of Blues) well over a century later?
Linux, on the other hand is here to stay, IMO.
Wishful thinking.   If it was, we wouldn't progress much would we?   This is where comparing music (or any of the arts) to technology fails every time.
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
First, I am a huge punk fan. But remember, the Ramones came up with punk because they were not good enough to play real music! They tried. They tried to do Beach Boys and decided they really sucked at it. But they wanted to play. So they did. Bingo! Punk was born.
I thought this too when I started to read the article.. that Linux is more like the early days of punk, and in a lot of ways it is, as you pointed out. Nobody gives a shit if it does not look pretty (and as the line in Rock 'n Roll High School goes, "They are ugly. Ugly, ugly, people.") but if it works then that is all that matters. Punk certainly does that.
It is very anti-establishment. Bob Young has said it. Red Hat's competition is not the other Linux companies. It is Microsoft. In the minds of corporate america, what is more anti-establishment than refusing to use a Microsoft Windows product? I can't think of anything.
So, taking all things into account, you are right. However, like I said, punk was started because the guys could not play worth a crap. The Linux code I have seen is brilliant.
Seems like a lot of you guys are kinda scared by hip hop, having to revert to stereotypes and humor, instead of perhaps discussing something that could be somewhat interesting to talk about.
Lots of people make fun of the crap they see on MTV. It should be made fun of, because it's soulless and empty, with nothing new to say. It's pop hip hop, boring and uninteresting.
Hip hop (in its truest form) is about self expression, about doing _your_ thing, and adding your voice to a community of creativity. Puff Daddy and all the other shit you laugh about is POP MUSIC. My grandmother could display more artistic creativity than him. But there are many artists who display originality, even poetry in their rapping. An oppressed people created hip hop, as a way to gain control over their situation and reenfranchise themselves. Sounds kinda like linux...
The thing is that true hip hop and linux are about the individual and gaining power back over your situation. Rapping on the corner about racism in the face of society, or coding late at night in the face of monolithic software companies. Hip hop is about giving a voice to those who had none. Linux lets people have a voice and a choice.
In the end, any argument for or against is kinda mute. It's kinda silly to compare an OS culture to a sub-culture, but it might make for some interesting discussion. Maybe think next time before you write some ignorant shit about hip hop not being music. I'm glad I never got into glam rock, and instead found hip hop (and later techno).
Thanks for reading this rant...
Well put. Hip-Hop is the soul, Rap is the business.
Huh?   I guess I'm now sorely out of date...   I remember Hip-Hop starting off as a "dance and music style" for the 80s teeny boppers, different from R&B, popularized by guys like Bobby Brown and his little group, and absorbing the "Go Go" (remember that?) style that was all the rage in the Chocolate City (D.C.).   Then it sortof mysteriously tranformed itself into this "culture" generation-gap thing ($$$-generated) with clothing and attitudes and the brief ressurection of James Brown and "gettin' paid" and stuff like that.   The rap of today is similarly "media generated" and has now sunk to the level of the media-created groups of the 60s.   The groups today lack the cleverness and hard driving, "in your face" message of a Public Enemy (although Arrested Development tried to hold down the fort amidst the so-called gangsta rap genre).   Sigh... music =! technology...   I still think the connection is weak...
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
Actually, techno is American, invented in the early '80s. And actually, it evolved from Disco. When disco "died", it actually just disappeared from the mainstream culture, but didn't actually die completely. There were many places where disco was still popular, namely gay clubs.
Whoooo boy.   Not correct.   You can technically take Techno back to the invention of the electric keyboard/synthesizer in the 50s (does Sun Ra and his Arkestra ring a bell.... nahhhh, guess not... although Sun was doin' big band and be bop as his main paying job), but I digress.   Let's just say it's been out for awhile (eg. 70s groups like Parliment & its various iterations used the "funk" version of it in the early-mid 70s).
During this time, a few DJs/producers began to play around with the dance-music feel of disco, and combining it with the new drum machines that were making their appearance at the time (which also, incidentally, encouraged the development of rap music, which used the beats as well). The gay clubs of detroit were, basically, the incubator where the first techno was developed. This was around '83 or 84 I think.
Uh... not quite.   As myself and previous posters have noted, rap has been out a long time.   I guess you're thinking about the use of the drum machines by groups like Afrika Bambatta and the Soul Sonic Force or something?   DJs, who were the first rappers, didn't need a drum machine - they used their 2 turntables and a mixer (plus a tape recorder to capture the moment).   The rap then was obviously not on the radio (although a few local stations might sneek a premix tape on in the wee hours of the morning) or distributed by big record producers.   It wasn't until the Sugar Hill Gang's OVERPLAYED "Rapper's Delight" came out when suddenly rap was "discovered" (sigh).   And when you say '83 or '84, Techno-pop groups like Kraftwerk (with their jammin' song "Numbers") had been out for some time.
I won't speak for what happened in Europe during the 80s ' but:
After this, techno began to make its way back to where it originated: the USA.
As far as I know, it never left.   It was still being played in the clubs.
It took several years, but in 1991 the first techno-explosion occured in the US. This first incarnation of techno in the US was strongly associated with Hippie culture (probably due to the mutual association with drugs),
Huh??
and then promptly faded from the mainstream in 1993.
Sigh...
-- Win2k: "It's not so much that it's only 65,000 bugs, it's just that they stopped at 65,535 to prevent an overflow."
OK, since you're obviously young and your point about rap was dead on, I'll go easy on you.
BUT, punk died with the Ramones. Anything since them that's been called punk has been (gasp!!!) backed by major labels. Anything labelled punk in the last ten years (especially the last four or so) is EXACTLY as 'major label' as the Beastie Boys, Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, 'N Sync, and Brittny fuck(me)ing Spears.
Here's some major label crock from the '80s for you: the Eurythmics. Annie Lennox, like her music or not, has the finest voice since the likes of Ella and Nina.
I'm a "folk" fan, in all senses. I like what is (currently) called "folk music," but you must recognise this: You and I can't reasonably discuss what music most accurately encompases the spirit of open source, because open source music is, by its very definition, LOCAL. In fact, the only reason that different linux distros aren't geographically local is because the computing community isn't geographically segregated.
Kind of a roundabout way of saying forget about punk vs. 'major label,' vs. metal, vs. ska, vs. polka, vs. big vs. small. Saying "fuck the majors" is pointless and counterproductive, if they're willing to help you. Saying "stick to the majors" if they're NOT willing to help you is just as pointless (just ask Ani DiFranco). DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO. Any field, any genre, any time. Period.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Lighten up.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton