Slashdot Mirror
PS2 + Upscan Converter = Easy DVD to VHS Copying
Lots of people submitted the news: An EETimes story from last week that tells how Japanese gamers are using a (Japanese model) Sony Playstation 2, an upscan converter like the Micomsoft model XRGB-2, and an easily-obtained adaptor cable to make VHS copies of DVD movies. As an unintentional byproduct of its other functions, an XRB2 or similar upscan converter installed between the RGB output of a PS2 and the RGB inputs on a VCR apparently disables the Macrovision encoding used to prevent DVD copying. This trick is almost certainly illegal, and the "problem" will surely be fixed before Sony starts exporting PS2s in quantity, so don't get your hopes up, okay?
>I'm not sure what the problem is. I can hook my DVD player up to the TV, then use the video outs on the TV to go to my VCR and voila, copied DVD tape. Just using conventional technology, no computer (PC that is), no PS2. The average joe could easily do this. Thank the personal video recorder industry for that hack.
You've never actually done this have you?
If you do this, you WILL end up with a COMPLETELY unwatchable (but listenable) tape with 90% of the movies out there (the other 10% don't have macrovision licensed onto the DVD). The picture will fade, colours will bloom, the picture will glow brightly, etc... ad infinitum.
NO TV can repair a tape recorded on a normal VCR with macrovsion. Once the macrovision goes through the AGC (which is on all home VCRs, maybe not some $$$$$ industrial models), the signal is destroyed by the VCR itself.
If you don't beleive me, rent something like The Lion King, or some other Disney animated movie, and just TRY recording it. Disney is well known for using the latest, and harshest anti-copying techniques.
Get any tape recorder, and simply hold the microphone against the speakers when you play a CD. Especially effective if you have kids running around
If he'd said "I'm not getting my hopes up," you would be justified in drawing that conclusion. As it is, though, he's clearly just acknowledging the undeniable fact that there is at least one person out there who wants to make such copies.
Sorry, Esperandi, you'll have to find another excuse for your ad hominem attacks.
Macrovision is easily defeated thru the use of 'picture stabilizers'. Why is this possible? High-end projection TV's -- those used in Home Theatre's -- don't deal with Macrovi$ion so the signal must be stripped.
Gotta disagree there. If I bought a movie on DVD, of course I watch it on my DVD player, but I also have an old VHS in my bedroom hooked up to a small 13" TV. I'd like to think I can watch the same movie in another room without having to buy another copy on VHS (which may not even be in print anymore). Solution: dub it to tape, watch it there. This isn't illegal as far as I know, and if it is, then screw'em anyways. I can think for myself and determine what is right and what is wrong.
The DXR3 card has a Video Out port right on it, so it's perfect for plugging into your VCR if you're into that sort of thing.
However, there are limited legitimate reasons for wanting to copy a DVD to VHS.
I have one DVD player, and two rooms where I watch videos. So I've used my Apex to copy a movie I bought onto DVD so it can also be watched in the other room. (Actually not for me, for my kids, but the effect is much the same.)
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Agreed, this causes me much grief. I bought a DVD player a couple months back, and It's almost useless to me.
When I sit in the livingroom, I can watch DVDs just fine, but with my TV in the office, that is hooked up to the back of the VCR via RCA, I can't watch DVDs. This sucks.
http://www.xpurple.com
Virtually any DVD player, with the addition of an upscan converter, can be made to copy DVD titles to VHS. This is not something that Sony can fix, and it's not something peculiar to the PS2, unless the article is very badly translated.
Now, if you could disable Macrovision from within the PS2, without the need for additional hardware, that would be a different story.
I usually buy DVDs because I want better quality than VHS. My question is why bother recording your DVDs to VHS?? I don't get it.
"Electric Relaxation" - ATCQ
- Bwana
"Electric Relaxation" - ATCQ
- Bwana
If they've managed to spread the idea that making an archive copy of media you've purchased is in any way illegal, they really do need to be stopped. They damn well know it is not illegal so they've tried to make it technically infeasible. They bought enough legislators to pass their DMCA but I don't think they can buy enough judges to make it stick.
Wasn't it something like "don't just do it -- PS2 it"?
Go back and read again. The PS2 RGB gets sent through an RGB to NTSC converter. Comes out as your garden variety RCA jack video.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
"Lots of people submitted the news" way back when it was still news.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
If its illegal, its illegal. Simple as that. DVD publishers will come down on people who do this like a ton of bricks, and rightly so.
Now weary traveller, rest your head. For just like me, you're utterly dead.
Were they just forgetten in the DVD frenzy?
They would be an excellent CHEAP way to record those DVD movies without picture degradation. It has been almost a year since I have heard any developments on this front.
Let's see - Macrovision strippers have been around cince 1982. I used to sell them constantly in the video store. They are 100% legal as they are "video stabilizers" in fact you can call it a macrovision stripper legally. It's illegal to market it as a "Device to make copies for you to sell to your friends or give away" but it's legal to make 99,000 copies for your personal use. (I make at least 2 copies of every tape I buy, store the origional and let the kids destroy the copies.) If you use SVHS decks you get killer quality. if you use VHS..... well VHS just sucks in every way.
This is NON news in any way.... a DVD player with a video stabilizeer can copy DVD's to video tape!!!! hell every dvd player can do that.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
For instance I got a free DVD of the Matrix and didn't yet have a DVD player so I wanted to convert it to VHS until I got my DVD player..
:)
Also VHS is widespread and sometimes you might want to watch the movie you paid for and not want to carry your DVD player with you.. sort of how sometimes I listen to my CD's copied to tape or MP3 rather than as a CD just because it is handier for what I'm doing.. If I had kids I'd probably copy my movies to VHS and give them an old VCR to watch the movies on so that my originals wouldn't get scratches and grubby finger marks all over them..
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Sounds like the media trying to hype up a problem that exists in many other places already.
Building on the TiVo review from a while back, ReplayTV (like TiVo but better IMO) strips out the Macrovision, so you could copy DVD to VHS gleefully.
v .htm
Check out the info at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/elund/pt
The software I speak of is called Remote Selector. I won't bother giving the link, to keep the site from getting slashdotted too badly. If you really want the program, you'll search for it and find it easily enough.
--
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III / NIC Handle: EMC3
Got Spam? http://spam.gunters.org/
Ernest MacDougal Campbell III
geek ramblings
Well, I've only had a problem with macrovision once. Really pissed my off though. I'd just gotten the matix on dvd and wanted to watch it with a friend. I took my dvd player and disk over to his house and started to connect them to his TV. Slight problem, it was an older set and didn't have rca inputs, only a coax to antenna converter (yes it wasn't a great quality TV but it works), no problem I thought, I'll just plug the rca cables into his VCR and use the coax out from the VCR to connect to the TV. We start up the matrix and get the horible brightness variation crap that is macrovision. I don't care if it screws up video tapes, but it sucks when it screws up the picture on the TV!
One of the interesting sidenotes is that IEEE1394 (aka, Firewire, aka, iLink) now has SCMS (serial copy management system) built into the protocols. This is to allow it to be used in a home theatre system (ie, DVD to digital TV) but not for digital dubbing.
:( This is unfortunate.
One of the other posts mentioned encryption, but I don't believe this is the case. I think it uses a simple bit flag that the downstream receivers are compelled (now by law) to honor.
Of course, in the Akihabara section of Tokyo, you can get little black boxes that remove SCMS from digital/optical audio. Once we start seeing DVD-R player/recorders on the market, it'll only be a few weeks before we see SCMS-removing kits in Japan.
The kits are illegal in the U.S. due to that nasty law.
One legitimate use of backups is for parents with kids. DVDs are nice because your kids can watch "The Little Mermaid" 300 times without wearing out the tape, but DVD discs themselves are rather fragile and get scratched. It'd be nice if we were allowed to make DVD-R backups for our kids to beat up on.
The same argument can be made for PlayStation games....
Karen
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT d-- a? C++ UX+ L++ P++ E--- W+++$ N++ o-- !K !w O---- M++$ !V PS++
Most newer DVDs component outs have Macrovision on them. Just the MV I though. The colorstriping MV II can't be generated on the component out.
So what's needed is a circuit that would 1.restore Vsync signals 2. combine the two color component signals into either sVideo or composite.
Only then could you exercise your Fair Use rights.
---
The reason that the MPAA has the copy protection on the DVD is so that people cannot make a copy from a DVD to a VHS tape. Then sell the tape which would be of higher quality than a store bought tape (Just like my casset copys of my CD's, they are better quality than a store bought copy).
They are going to screem "pirate!". But arrrr me mateys we all know that this is all about power and control.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
I have a Sony Camcorder, model number escapes me at the moment, which has video inputs through an SVHS cable as well as the old coax.
Copying ANY macrovision encoded VHS/DVD on to a Hi8 tape shows no ill effects and the picture quality is very much superior to VHS.
You can then get a very good second generation copy from this onto VHS.
I used it to take some movies with me on a vacation to France.
You can't take a DVD player with you, you can take a mini TV and you are already taking your camcorder, so why not?
I do remember seeing that wording, but the source is the movie industry (when playing a movie, it is in the "FBI warning").
However, I *beleive* the actual law provides for you to make and keep one copy, i.e., you are authorized by statute no matter what the studio wants. Sorry, at real job at the time of this writing so can't research it properly. I am sure others know where the relevant info is and will let everybody know.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
In the USA, individuals ARE allowed to make a backup copy of whatever they buy.
But I am sure the MPAA will make an issue of it.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Work for Change & GET PAID!
I'll be in Japan next week. Specifically, in Shinjuku, Tokyo, just eight or so train stops from the great toyshop that is Akihabara Electric Street. While I don't see myself copying many DVDs (don't have a VCR) I might want to get one.
Does anyone have a jp-model PS2 and can describe some of the things that work and some of the things that don't? Specifically, have you been able to get around region encoding on the DVD side? What are your display options? I'd like to run it through the monitor - don't have a TV.
One can satisfy his/her desire to make quality copies of DVDs to VHS simply by purchasing an Apex 600A from Circuit City for $170 +/- (as mentioned in the Slashdot article from 3/21).
I have one and have been very happy with it. Both the country code and macrovision hacks seem to work very well.
Here's another way to dub Macrovision encoded content easily: use your ReplayTV to do it.
Over in the CmdrTaco's Week with Tivo thread, I posted this message about Macrovision and Replay. It turns out that Replay can record Macrovision content quite easily, and the early units (the 2000 series) do not reproduce the Macrovision encoding when outputting. I cannot speak for Tivo's capability in this area.
This might be short-lived, however, because both products have licensed Macrovision's technology for incorporation into future units.
Could someone please enlighten me as to how this is any different then VCR-VCR (Analog-Analog) copying, which has been around for ages?
This is all hype. The MPAA is insanely overreacting.
The only real concern surrounding DVD's is a fear of digital-digital copying, which makes identical copies. Whats the big deal if you can capture it to analog?
I can do this with any video source by hooking up the TV out on my video card to the Composite Video on my TV tuner card. And Voila! I'm free to capture it. But it goes through the dreaded Digital-Analog-Analog-Digital.
Nobody likes that...whats the big deal?
You are granted a license for the one copy which you purchase, you are not authorized by the copyright holder to copy the DVD which you own, therefore, this trick is clearly illegal.
As much as I wish it were otherwise, that's the law.
Thank you very much for this info. Too bad, Cameraworld's out of stock (!) but you can order at list price from Sima.
My mother just produced a video on Valentines (she's an expert on the history of them) and guess what, VHS with Macrovision. Apparently it is to be shown by the Ephemera Society of Great Britain but they had trouble copying to PAL, maybe they don't have as much experience with Macrovision there. Sure it's best if she has a DV or Beta tape but either a corrector like Sima's (available in England?) or maybe the TV video out fix mentioned earlier would do the trick for now. The studio that made the original tape is charging an arm and a leg for making PAL tapes and only in bulk.
When I was working on a digital video (Quicktime) project I heard it was cheaper to convert to the format native to your company (somebody wanted us to make a PAL output box since conversion is apparently very expensive since you have to rent a big deck). Anybody know a good shop in London, or New York, that can do this kind of easy job with high quality, quickly, at a reasonable (low budget) price? Maybe printing a DVD too? We're getting a bunch of hits at the site I made for her (telebody.com/valentines). Thanks again.
I haven't tried this, but I am fairly sure that you can record to vhs from your computer with a graphics cards that has a tv-out connection.
Just play the DVD in full screen and bingo?
(Has anyone tried this?)
Or you could use x10's dvd anywhere http://www.x10.com/products/vk53a_dd1.htm and "broadcast" to your video recorder.
Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
It says that because under US law you can make a backup copy of your stuff. So if you own the game you can download the rom because it can be considered your backup copy of the game. If how ever you do not own the game then you are breaking copyright.
-----
Can I Play With Madness?
Well, Rob has completely validated that he wants deCSS to be legal so that he can illegally copy DVDs, and he seems to believe that the rest of the Slashdot community feels exactly the same way.
Sorry Rob, but not all of us are thieves like you yearn to be.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the blurb again, note the part about not getting your hopes up.
Esperandi
As an earlier post stated, Macrovision is easily removed using one of the many video "stabilizers" out on the market.
Since there are several types of Macrovision protection (at least two types for DVD-Video, as well as other types for VHS tapes and even CD-ROM), it's important that you ensure that the stabilizer you're buying is appropriate for the device/format that you're going to be using it with.
When I bought my DVD player last year, I was incensed that I could not hook it up through my VCR (I hook up everything through my VCR, because I like the convenience of its A/V selection controls.) After doing some research on the Net, I decided to play it safe and get the most feature-rich (and expensive) box on the market. I thus chose SCC ColorCorrector Pro Series from Sima Corporation. It retails for $169.99, but I was able to get a great deal from cameraworld.com: $99, with no tax and free shipping (within the US only, I think).
I absolutely love the SCC. Not only does it perfectly strip Macrovision protection from everything I've thrown at it (both DVD-Video discs and VHS tapes), but it provides an array of controls for tweaking the video signal to your liking. This is great for improving contrast and color balance on video coming from a marginal source. It even supports S-video connectors to ensure minimal signal degradation (FWIW, I don't notice any degradation, and I'm pretty picky.).
Disclaimer: I don't work for either Sima or cameraworld.com, but I just thought I'd pass on this tip to those interested in defeating that infernal Macrovision protection once and for good.
begin 644
This is funny now, but just wait until DVD-Audio comes along, and we'll see who's laughing.
begin 644
I'd like to put some thirty second video snippets on my web site, which is a critical forum devoted to film. I know the snippets themselves are protected by fair use but my question is whether or not can I legally use DVDs and VHS tapes as the source for these clips. If I cannot, then where the hell am I supposed to go to get the video?
BTW: Hack I use to get high quality video from DVDs into a computer:
1) Dub DVDs to an analog Hi8mm camera or deck.
2) Put Hi8mm tape into Sony Digital8 Handycam (these also read Hi8 analog) with FireWire port (aka iLink/IEEE1394).
3) Suck it into Final Cut Pro or whatever via FireWire.
Night
You write as if the Media Giants have already won! Of course it's illegal to redistribute copies, but to make VHS copies for the kids to watch in the downstairs TV room with no DVD?
We are right now still engaged in a battle for our rights to transfer content licensed to us to other media. Things like the DMCA threaten this, but as far as I know there's no law which keeps me from using a playstation like this (though Sony is probably liable for not meeting the DVD spec). Please don't talk like it's already over -- slashdot is one of those places which tends to keep its head on straight.
There are inexpensive devices which will restore the sync on an analog signal. These have been around since they started putting copy protection on VHS.
Still, the fact that this is on a Playstation is pretty cute. Maybe this will become (yet another) new battleground for consumer rights.
I don't think it is illegal to lend a movie to a friend to watch. It gets into a sticky area however if you lend them a personal copy you made and you still have the original (or vice versa), so that you both have the movie and could potentially watch it at the same time. The copy is allowed, but should only be used if the original becomes faulty.
Well, since DVD is on a CD media, it would be nice to be able to back up my movies in case they get scratched. I used to make tape backups of my CDs for this same reason. Personally, I don't see why *that* should be illegal.
I guess when the bad people do bad things, we all get punished.
A recent news article posted at the NY Times website quoted one hacker as saying "Wow...i can use this new 1Ghz athalon chip to play Pong! SAWEET!" In rural Ohio, John McPhereson displayed another great way to put technology to use. "Dude" He is quoted as saying, "I just got this bomb ass Sony component system with a 200 disc changer - now I can use it to dub all my CD's on to cassette! rock on!!"BR>
With the DeCSS cat being out of the bag - why go back to VHS?
-FluX
-------------------------
Your Ad Here!
-------------------------
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
When it can be shown to the judge that people are taking advantage of this sort of thing, our (the geek community and anyone who wants freer acess to information and media) credibility and cause will be demerited.
I dont have a
I wish I'd known about all this stuff before I bought my DVD player, or I would've bought a better one. Especially since I'm a total otaku and would like to watch Japanese movies (many of which won't be released here). Stupid region codes.
Of course, I really wish I'd known about the DeCSS controversy and DVD boycott before buying my DVD player. I could've saved about $300. I obviously don't need a DVD player if I won't be buying DVDs.
---
Zardoz has spoken!
Oper on the Nightstar
As a summary of the law, thats quite accurate, but there is a long list of "reasonable use" exceptions. These essentially allow people to copy for personal use (e.g. make a tape from a CD for use in a car, or make a compilation tape). This has (allegedly) been tested in court.
However, there are limited legitimate reasons for wanting to copy a DVD to VHS. Not many people have a TV that can't handle Macrovision, and very few people to back up their DVD's to tape. Some people do, but not many.
Just play the fsckers on your PC, and use a cheap TV out card to record them to video.
Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me.
Jeff
stty erase ^H
I've got a Sony Video Walkman with a 3-1/2" LCD screen and an 8mm VCR built into. It takes camcorder batteries and one of the batteries will last about 2 hours. It plugs into a lighter socket in the car too. My kids watch movies on it in the backseat while we're on a trip. I've also got (now) an Apex 600 DVD player just because of the Macrovision deletion with that little TV in mind. I copy CDs to audio tape for use in the car, now I've got a travel collection of video tapes for use in the car. I only copy those I own on some media type, though. Now there's another way to do it. The more holes in the MPAA's story, the better.
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
Fight Spammers!
play a DVD on a computer in full screen and use snappy or some other NTSC out device to capture to VHS...
I found a way to do this also, quite by accident. I got a JVC DV camcorder last christmas with a firewire/1394 interface so I went and got an adaptec scsi/1394 combo card so I could grab video off my DV camcorder and burn home movies onto a CDRW. I also have a TV tuner card in this box and the video capture software I ended up using (Ulead Studio) recognized my 1394 and tv card as video sources. I hooked up my Panasonic DVD deck to the tv card with s-video cable and captured a good chunk of The Matrix onto my SCSI drive. I was surprised how well this worked.
I then played the clip back full screen through my Matrox G400 Max with the second head's output patched into my VCR. Made a perfectly good quality copy of the clip onto VHS.
I didn't copy the entire movie, and I'm not sure I ever would, but it would be easy engough to make a good-quality VHS copy of any DVD movie and bypass macrovision with this setup. I'm sure there are plenty of other (faster, better, cheaper) ways but I had to pipe up with my version.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
For all those without a PS2, try reading this
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Does this mean I can watch the scrambled up pr0n channel if I plug it in to my cable box??
My old Sony Super Beta Hi-Fi and it's superior encoding technology is not only impervious to macrovision, it strips it out before recording to tape and will allow clean second generation transfer to VHS.
Anonymous Coward writes "US supreme court has just ruled that everyone must walk with their eyes closed so they can't watch DVDs and copy the information within into their short- and long-term memories."
Linux boxes were doing this years before Playstation 2 became the media darling. All you needed was an LML33 and a DVD drive, plus you could do color correction.
The idea is such that you rent a DVD and make a video tape copy. You see the movie and get a copy for your low cost library.
Yes, VHS isn't that great, but given the average setup in the average home, it's not that bad, and if there are children, they can watch a movie hundreds of times, wear out the tape, make a new one. But some DVD players are sensitive to scratches, so if the kids scratch the disc, that screws your copy. Making copies is also handy if you have multiple TVs but only 1 DVD player, assuming the other TVs have VCRs too, so that you can at least watch the movie. In the analog equivalent, say I have a car with a tape player, and do not want to buy a CD player to replace it, so I make a copy of a CD and play the tape in the car. Actually, I mostly use minidisc for audio, but you get the point.
No matter how much you encrypt/decrypt this data, there are at least 2 points along the way where the raw RGB is available:
After DeCSS and before encryption by the video card
Isn't the whole point to leave the RGB encrypted by at least one layer through the entire path?
After decryption in the tv/monitor and before it hits the analog tube control.
I don't think Hollywood's particularly worried about anyone copying their precious intellectual property by digitising the voltage on their CRT.
Under the DMCA, circumventing copy protection is illegal, unless you're doing legitimate security research (a defense that, as the DeCSS case shows, one pretty much has to be a respectable research facility to use).
Apparently the copy protection on VHS tapes can be circumvented with "signal amplifiers". Are these now illegal, or do they have a legitimate purpose? Does this trick apply to the DVD implementation of Macrovision?
This has (IMHO) come about as a consequence of digital recording.
When cds were released, we could all record cd -> analogue tape and that was ok as the recording was lossy and therefore not a major problem. This was great as we could play music we'd bought in our cars and walkmans (walkmen?)
Then along came DAT, DCC and MiniDisc and suddenly it was possible to make digital recordings or music we'd bought (well licensed etc) so there was a panic and they came up with SCMS (serial copy management system or something like that) which limited the number of digital copies you could make. You could (can) still make analogue copie however.
Spurred on by this exciting deveopment, macrovision was added to video tapes to stop people renting anc copying tapes (this was from the time when it took many years for a film to be released on video except in rental stores) and then subsequently added to all pre-recorded movies.
Que the 21st Century and we have the precedent where copy protection has been included in some form or another on pre-recorded media for years such that the MPAA (and others) can pretty much do as they will.
Hohum
troc
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
I want to make a VHS copy of "Seven Samurai", so I can take it round to my friends house and watch it with them.
Firstly, as you point out, the "bypassing of access control mechanisms" clause does not come into effect until October of this year.
Secondly, as I keep saying, CSS (and macrovision) do not control access to a work, they controls use of the work. Therefore bypassing them is not illegal. Copyright law has clear distinctions between "access" and "use" - "access" is acquisition. See the American Libraries Association's comments.
Here's the link to the ALA comments, oops.
You still cannot redistribute them or even borrow them to your friend but you can make copies so that if the original media becomes faulty you can still use your backup.
<rant> I know that the media giants have been trying to make this illegal for as long as there have been VCRs. This time they might even succeed with the new additions to the copyright law and the new technology.
We the people must fight it at every turn.
As consumers we must demand that we get what we want. We don't want obscene copy protection. We want Fair Use.
ALL copyprotection schemes are flawed. If it can be viewed, it can be copied.
Fight The Power.
Power=Money
Money=Big Business
Big Business=Mega Corporations
Sony=Mega Corporation
You do the math.
</rant>
plugging all the 'security' holes and hacks in DVD's those suckers are gonna cost $125 a pop. The movie and music 'industry' should take a clue from the failures of the software industry, in the 80's, to implement hardware copy protection on consumer software: is was an escalating techno-war between producers and consumers that caused so many problems for ordinary users (can't make a backup, original floppys get damaged - well, we aren't buying from THEM anymore) that it is no longer common practice. They really outta get a clue that not everybody buys pirated warez - a vast majority of ordinary movie buyers are above buying zip-lock baggie-ware from some scum pirate operation. If they make a movie viewing experience pleasant they'll make $$$. If they get their undies all wadded up over someone "instantaneously distributing a high quality full length feature film to 6 billion people via the net" (which is BS) it's going to go the way of the laser disk - a very small market techno oddity, not the mass market they'd like to get in a head lock.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Annoying when you have to "fix" a new product before it will "work".
A DVD-ROM drive and Remote Selector let me do this very thing right now. I don't see as there's so much newsworthy about it...
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
You can't put Macrovision on pure RGB signals. That's why I bought a deck with component outs -- and they've been around since the first generation of DVD players.
If you are a legitimate videogame developer, however, things are different - you may have a copy of the disk file of a game (not necessarily the one you're working on). This has been recognized in the courts. See this web page for more details. Root of this document is here.
(In response to all the posts in this thread...)
I'm not sure if this would have been legal a few years ago, but it is definitely illegal now, thanks to the DMCA: "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."
Remember, the principle of fair use says that it is not illegal to make "backups" of a copyrighted work. It does not say that you have a right to make backups. In this case, it is still legal to make backup copies of your DVDs; it is just illegal to circumvent copy-protection measures in the process.
Apparently the Librarian of Congress (?!) can declare exceptions to the above, but I'm sure we'd have heard about it by now if such an exception had been made. Until that happens, it's illegal to break Macrovision. (At least, after the provision takes effect in October -- why hasn't anyone brought that point up yet?)
Disclaimer: I don't like the DMCA.
MSK
An EETimes story tells how gamers are using the IBM PS/2, with its good ol' proprietary micro channel architecture, to make copies of DVD movies and old game cartridge ROMs. IBM will almost certainly "fix" the problem before it continues to ship more units in its effort to dominate the personal computer market.
-JD
It'd be cheaper to tape it off pay-per-view. $3.75 and you have your own copy on tape. I just don't see much point in spending oodles of money in order to copy DVDs, when you can get it off pay per view (if it's a new movie) or buy the tape for $10.
Sony is making an upskirt converter?
Oh. Sorry, misread that.
I guess I was thinking about Sony's prior gaffe; a videocamera's infrared night-vision feature that when used in daylight rendered thin clothing as transparent.
(Infrared Upskirt Converter =anagram>Trick run: render of privates,
Or it transferred pink curve)
[
However, there are limited legitimate reasons for wanting to copy a DVD to VHS. Not many people have a TV that can't handle Macrovision, and very few people to back up their DVD's to tape. Some people do, but not many.
However there are several reasons for wanting to connect a DVD player to a TV through a VCR without using it to record, such as the TV not having enough inputs. Macrovision usually thwarts such efforts.
--
--
Things are only impossible until they are not.
....the MPAA sues Sony to take the PS2 off the market while pressuring Japanese police to arrest the head of their engineering department?
-- WhiskeyJack
Yeah, it's neat that somebody hacked it, but it's like going around boasting that you reprogrammed the PROM in your car to only go 25 miles per hour. (Only useful if you valet park alot or have teenagers that want to borrow it)
kwsNI
OK, so by a slight bit of technical jiggery-pokery, you can copy your DVD to VHS.
Funny thing is, I've had the technical capability to copy audio CDs to cassette tape for years. No one has seen the need to 'fix' CD players to prevent people like me from doing this. The entertainment business has not been bankrupted by people doing this.
So why is this any different ? In building clever hardware to prevent writing VHS tapes, Sony will increase production costs of the PS2, increase complexity and decrease reliability - it will be one more component to go wrong. It isn't even a bit that is needed to make the PS2 work ! The entertainment industry will have their DVDs protected for now.
(*RANT)The only people missing from the equation is us, the consumer. We will pay for these 'design modifications', get more complex, less reliable products, and be expected to pay for the resulting repairs when they go wrong. Solving the problem by technological means is stupid, particularly when the problem is not technological in the first case. OK, there is a threat of piracy. Piracy is less of a problem when you are giving genuine value for money, and don't have a business process supporting a vast array of expensively upholstered intermediaries. This is the real problem faced by the entertainment industry. They need to downsize and restructure, like the rest of us have had to do, or die. Their lawyers will not help them ultimately, because ultimately they rely on the patronage of people like you and me, and someone will eventually 'get it' and take their business from them.(*/RANT)
Stephen Hawking has written another book. It's about time as well.
I guess this is a consequence of the complexity within current computers/consoles/home AV equipment etc.
:)
:)
Here in the UK, a large number of DVD players are eitehr sold or are later modified to play Region 1 discs so we can buy movies from the States where they are much cheaper. A consequence of this mod is that macrovision is disabled (for better or worse etc) Most people aren't even aware of this aspect of the mod, or even care - we just want our movies
I would think that the harder Sony try to remove this 'feature' from the PSX 2, the more people will hack deeper into the hard/software and find alternate methods - after all the Sony DVD players are all easily modded to allow the same functions.
I would think an interesting debate would be on teh merits of copy protection and whether it's necessary at all. Specifically the macrovision and/or region coding that goes on - i.e. is macrovision ok to stop people copying dvd -> video and Region coding bad (mmmmkay) or vice versa or are we all against everything?
Personally I have no problems with macrovision as I don't plan to copy dvds but I HATE the Region coding with a vengence and that's why I had my DVD modded and will certainly have my PSX 2 modded when I buy it later this year (or whenever they are out in the UK)
Just some thoughts, I know some of the have been hashed out before but I fancied a quick typo
Troc
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
This isn't exactly new. You can go to Best Buy and purchase Macrovision scrubbers, and have been able to for some time. These have a number of completely legal uses, not the least of which being using a DVD player with a TV/VCR combo unit.
Or wanting to be able to use a DVD player and VCR with a TV with only one set of composite inputs. I got a composite AB-switch, but it still annoys me that I can't switch things with the remote.
I was confusing the Slashdot story with the one that just aged off of The Register. The convert RGB to NTSC part is still accurate and not that difficult.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Macrovision, OTOH, enforces copy restriction even when that is against the copyright holder's wishes. So you can see that mandatory Macrovision is simply a tool used by the consumer media industry to ensure that no independent source of DVDs becomes popular.
BTW, if you think openly redistributable works of art are not a phenomenon, I present Ani Difranco as an example. Her CDs and tapes are very widely sold, and come with this rather loose copyright notice: "Unauthorized duplication, while sometimes necessary, is never as good as the real thing."
-jwb
I have a large collection of high-quality, digital audio recordings on CD. Is there a way that I can transfer these pristine recordings to a lossy, low-quality, non-random-access, fragile, progressively degrading magnetic medium? Something like audio cassettes would be ideal.
Oh, and if these stereo recordings can be converted to mono during the process, so much the better.
This is so *Shockingly* mundane a thing to hear that I'm really, truly saddened to see it wasting bandwidth.
You know those little boxes you can buy to let you duplicate VHS tapes that they sell in the back of Popular Mechanics? They really work, and they still really work for DVD players. All of them. Not just PSX2. And they're essentially the same thing as the upscan converter refered to here.
Lemme 'splain the concept behind Macrovision.
One of the qualities of the VHS format is that the horizontal sync signal is weakly recorded. This wasn't due to some corporate conspiracy, It's just Not a Very Good Format. VHS doesn't record the whole video signal, including not recording the whole sync signal. This is why even non-copy-protected VHS tapes look like crap when you copy them. Let me reiterate, this is NOT because of the fiendish plans of Mr. Valenti. It's simply because VHS is crappy technology.
"Macrovision" is essentially the act of intentionally providing a weak sync signal. That's right. All they do is make it weaker.
This works brilliantly, because Mr. Valenti has made it illegal to fix a VCR so that it has it's own amplifier on the sync signal. You take a poor sync signal, record it badly, and you have a really crappy copy.
TV's don't suffer from this because they are designed to recieve the whole video signal and not just some of it. Thus, you can get good video plugging DVD directly into your tv, and you can get good video plugging VHS directly into your tv, but when you plug DVD into VHS there's too much loss between the two to end up with a good signal.
SO, insert something that makes up for the poor sync signal, or prevent the sync signal from being degraded, and everything is hunky-dory.
Any questions?
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
I don't see how or why this trick can be illegal. It might be that distributing the result of this trick to others may be illegal. But making a backup copy of the movie shouldn't be illegal. Or maybe someone wants to extract a small part of the movie to be used in a (critical) review about that movie. I think that should be fair use.
because they can't/don't have to.
Macrovision is a copy protection method that takes advantaged of the AGC (Automatic Gain Control) in a VCR. They make the VCR think that the Gain need be adjusted all the time and hence a bad recording.
Devices like scan converters recreate the video signal (without Macrovision) and are not sensitive to the AGC themselves.
In other words, this is not a problem with the PS2. This trick works with any Macrovision encoded video (like from any DVD player). It's known and people have been doing this for years.
Actually, a better way to get DVD's to a VHS is to use a PC based DVD decoder and disable the Macrovision on there. For at least a few hardware decoders I've seen software and/or hardware patches that allow disabling the Macrovision encoding. That way you don't have to go throught the scan-converter which will undoubtly degrade the video quality a little.
Breace.
In order to control content access and delivery, the MPAA is working on (recently patented) secure digital tv/monitor interfaces which send data in encrypted form from a computer (or game console) to the monitor, which means the following:
No matter how much you encrypt/decrypt this data, there are at least 2 points along the way where the raw RGB is available:
This only makes coyping inconvenient, but will certainly make ordinary use more complicated and expensive.
Used to be, the government was concerned with providing access to technology (like TV) to the widest possible audience using the most straightforward, most easily implemented solutions to encourage proliferation of new technologies.
Nowadays, it really seems like the government is a puppet of anyone waving enough money in front of capitol hill.
That's progress for you.
@home, working on my manifesto...
The APEX 600D mentioned here at Slashdot has the "hidden" menu that lets you disable Macrovision.
Here is a list of region/macrovision cracks for home dvd players (many done with a keysequence on remote control)
DVD Utils Home DVD Cracks
If that is already slashdot'd, try one of the mirrors through:
DVD Utils
So basicly, the PS2 hack is not news. You can go out today and a consumer DVD player with a known Macrovision disable feature, and copy movies to video tape to your hearts content, and avoid all the Macrovision glitches.