More Yopy, The Linux PDA

Codeine writes: "The Linux PDA Yopy, mentioned back in February is getting closer... " Lots of specs and details now. Still no release date.

Comments

I dunno - is Linux the Right Thing for a PDA?

[jht]

This kind of has been on the periphery of things since last week's discussion of the new version of CE. One of the arguments against CE is that Windows just doesn't scale down to a handheld device - a device like a Palm (or the late, lamented Newton, for that matter) that has an OS designed from the ground up specifically for handheld devices has big advantages over a downsized PC.

I'm not sure one way or another here. I own a Palm Vx (and I had a Palm III and a Pilot Pro before that), and I used to have a Newton MessagePad 100, and before that a Sharp Wizard (with the touchscreen). I've used CE, and it's okay, but bloated as hell. All in all, I've been using some type of pocket device since about 1991 or so. The Wizard was great for it's time, but there was no easy PC synchronization at the time, and the pen was just for drawing and selecting on-screen buttons - it couldn't do even rudimentary data entry. On the other hand, it had separate batteries for operation and memory backup, and could go 6+ months of pretty regular use before you had to replace the battery. And it was pretty thin, so it worked well with a coat pocket.

Newton was a revelation when it came out. I saw it and immediately had to have one. The speed was OK, the battery life wasn't too bad (fresh batteries every couple of weeks), but it was bigger than the Sharp it replaced. The OS was smart as hell, despite the mediocre recognition (which got better with time) - it's still the only device where it was intuitive to tell it "schedule lunch with Bob tomorrow" and it could figure out what you meant! They were still too big when Apple Steved the whole Newton line, but if Newton had been allowed to keep on going it very well might have left CE stillborn at the high end and larger form factor.

My Palm is terrific because it's small, quick, and streamlined. Data entry is simple, synchronization is simple, and it works well with my iBook, Windows PC, and Linux PC. It's not as smart as my Newton was (natively), and I can't use real handwriting (Grafitti was originally a Newton software package before the Pilot existed), but it's small enough for the shirt pocket (the Holy Grail), and the battery life is the best since the Wizard. CE is a blivet in comparison.

CE still uses an old-fashioned filesystem metaphor, stores apps separate from executable space, and crams much of an interface designed at least for a 640x480 display into 1/4 the real estate. Despite improvements in the new version, how can that satisfy the needs of the computing/PDA mainstream? I'm afraid that Yopy will be the same. It's nice-looking hardware, but I don't see how Linux works any better than PalmOS or even CE as a PDA operating system. I'd much rather see Linux running on a system in the class of the CE "Jupiter" mininotebooks or even the handhelds rather than the palmtop-class hardware - I think the effort needed to put a usable distro onto a PDA isn't going to be worth it. I hope I'm wrong.

I just don't think Linux's strength lies in the PDA space - the only benefit I see is (theoretically) easier development because a Unix programmer should be able to easily write code for a Linux-based PDA like the Yopy. But writing Palm code is already pretty simple, and a lot of Win32 expertise can be re-used on CE (which, unfortunately, is a strength of CE). Sadly, I see Yopy getting squished in the market and that can't help the Linux cause at all - hopefully a failure won't hurt it, either.

- -Josh Turiel

Re:Voltage != equal Wattage

[SEWilco]

Movie energy is measured in voltages.
Movie time is measured in parsecs.
The amount of energy in a battery is measured in volts-per-parsec.

Why Linux?

[PapaZit]

I like linux. I'm running it at work and at home on my desktop machines.

Why, though, would you want this in a handheld device? A standard unix startup includes device initialization, filesystem integrity checks, etc. and then login. In other words, it's designed to set up everything, then allow the user to work. In a handheld, I want to be able to work NOW. Initialize the IR port when I want to use it. Don't waste my time (and battery life) initializing it before I can work. When I'm done, shut it down as soon as possible.

This just-in-time device management is something that linux doesn't really have. While the device might be good for linux if it make that kind of management possible, I'm not sure that I believe that linux is good for a handheld device right now.

--

Re:Pocket upgrade not included!

[vixiejvc]

Hehheh. First thing that popped into my head when I looked at the specs for this thing is "Guess they couldn't afford the WinCE licence." :)

Seriously, tho, you're absolutely right. Nearly $1 billion (that's a 1 followed by approximately nine zeroes, which represents a number of US Dollars) got dumped on PDA after PDA that tried for More Is Better without any results - one would think that folks would have noted that, then noted Palm's near-instant success, then have started to clue in.

There's a few specifics about this thing that have me worried:
* PC sychronization - traditionally WinCE is kind of blah here, so you'd think this would be a competition point. Instead they don't say much about said syncing. On what OSes will this be supported? (The FAQ mentions Linux, but what about those of us using "legacy" OSes, like, say, Windows?). Will they include PIM software for your computer or do you have to find your own and mess with it?
* Organizer functions. Does this thing even *have* a To Do list? It sounds more like it's touting a handheld Web client than an organizer, which, while nifty, *isn't* what a PDA is supposed to be. They *do* mention something called "PIMS", which might mean a Calendar/Datebook/whatever and a To Do list of some kind, and other such tools... maybe...
* Size. 128.8mm(H)x83.5mm(W)x19.9mm(D) roughly translates to 5.1"(h)x3.3"(w)x0.8"(d) (rounding up about .02" for each of those numbers). That wouldn't fit in the palm of my hand - heck, it'd barely fit *in* my hand, and I've got really big hands. :)

Of course, some of the things there that worry me could be not detailed simply because this thing isn't in production yet, and these fears might not turn out to be problematic, but, well, who knows?

(Totally aside, but... yes, it does look like a rushed translation. Especially here in the FAQ:
"Basically YOPY support Linux OS and it's the very first products based on Linux and we believe this new OS will be run over as main platform in the near future."
Run over? Linux is going to be flattened by the competition? Wow, they seem really confident :) )

-Jo Hunter

Yopy.org

[Ron Harwood]

Don't forget that yopy.org is a good site to check as well... they've done a lot in the way of investigation - and tend to link to anything yopy related.

www.yopy.org