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Pioneer Introduces 1st DVD Recorder (In Japan)
sanemind noted that Pioneer has announced the world's first consumer level
DVD Recorder. Although they are only available in Japan, and the blanks will cost 30-plus bucks, it's still pretty sweet.
It seems like these are all, generally speaking, the same formats -- in that it's a spinning aluminum disc that's ready by a laser -- and it seems to me that it should be possible to merge together these different uses of the media in the software of one device. I haven't bought a DVD thus far becuase I don't want it to be part of a collection of drives (alng with cd burner etc) that do almost the same thing. That would be such a waste, and I don't have that many free sockets on my computer.
Does anyone know anything about any attempts to merge these technologies together? I'm a broke college student, but I'd be willing to invest in a device that could do all of that for me...
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
If a tree falls in the forest, and kills a mime, does anyone care?
I'd like to see this thing have the ability to connect to a TiVo or ReplayTV device and transfer programs you've recorded on the internal HD to a DVD! Problem is, this may be prevented because you could just grab movies off of HBO/Showtime/Skin-a-max/etc, and burn them, eliminating the need to buy the actual movie, save some video and audio quality concerns.
-- From my Best Friend (Written to me over ICQ): "i was gonna go to a party...but i had to reinstall windows"
I know they're lurking in the shadows somewhere, ready to strike. Its only a matter of time, after all. People will only use this to make illegal copies of DVD's. There's no other purpose. Can't possibly be any other purpose.
:)
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Japan uses NTSC as well, so this fact alone doesn't say much.
Well, when I first got my CD-R, standard recordable-once-only discs were $8. Now they're easily under $1.
- Several magazines, e.g. PC Plus, have cover-mounted DVDs (or CDs if you like) with all kinds of stuff: programs, clip-art, et.c....
- Encyclopedias like Encyclopedia Britannica or Microsoft Encarta fit better onto a DVD than several CDs.
- Several games are available on DVD, for example Blade Runner.
In other words, there's quite a lot available on DVD already. Of course, the contents of your local stores may vary, but there's always mail/Net order and subscriptions!Personally, I want this so I can back up my audio CDs, using lossless compression (such as LPAC or similar programs).
I have about 400 audio CDs. Lossless compression should get that down to about 100G - which isn't *that* many DVD disks.
Given I paid a lot of money for that music over the years, it would be really nice to be able to properly back it up - not to mention being able to take it all to work to bore my cow orkers...
-Korny
from the steam-rising-from-the-riaas-forehead dept.
Ever hear of MTBF?
I read something about a new format for compressing dvd movies into about 750 meg sizes....and maybe soon there will be a movie version of Napster...(Mapster)....im sure this great idea will lead to alot of lawsuits and make more headlines for msn and cnn....but i gotta tell you this thing is sweet and i cant wait till it get to the US... MelVino
Exactly. Once all of the factories that are currently churning out CD recorders and CDR blanks retool and start churning out DVD recorders and DVD blanks, the price of both will fall through the floor. The current high prices are irrelevant.
Interesting to see this recorder released right in the middle of the CSS controversy.
One of the points in the press release was that the recorder was designed to not copy CSS material. This doesn't make sense technically, because the recorder has no digital input, so how would the recorder identify CSS content through the analog inputs?
However, one of the main legal tactics in the fight over CSS is the argument that DeCSS cannot be used for piracy, because there are no consumer DVD recorders on the market. Perhaps the strategy here is to get a DVD recorder on the market, so that they can legitimately argue that DeCSS can be used to copy DVDs, and must therefore be suppressed.
Anyway, who wants to take bets on how long it takes before the first person successfully removes the copy controls on a consumer DVD recorder. I give them one year before it all comes apart.
You're either lying or using really crappy quality MP3s, because I can't fit them all on a single CD, even an 80 minute one.
MacSlash: News for Mac Geeks
It is a common policy of Japanese electronics companies to test-market (although some would say "beta-test") their products in Japan before releasing them worldwide.
I remember a friend who had just done a shopping trip to Akihabara coming back home to brag about his "only available in Japan" stereo. What a drag to have the stereo suffer a system crash about two hours into the party that night.
j.
I've been seeing 40+ GB hard drives lately for in the vicinity of $200. How much storage is a DVD writable disk capable of? Unless the storage media is significantly less expensive, why not use one of the readily available TV-In cards and record to hard drive? It's not all that hard to swap hard drives out, either.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
For $30 a disc, there's no point for most consumers to buy, since most people would just want to copy their friend's collection of Kubrick films. It would just be cheaper to buy them, and you'd get the cool case.
If you are doing DV editing or other personal stuff and need storage(4.7 gigs) for your movies , this is good news. Although, this is not a PC ROM, so I guess you couldnt burn from your PC.
Can anyone else enlighten us?
is that it has no digital inputs. Which means to record from a digital source, you have to convert to analog and then back to digital. Kinda defeats the whole purpose...
However, a dvd played through a macrovision stripper, into the inputs would probably record ok though...
But then you lose the point. If you output from one player and strip out the macrovision junk then into the recorder it has gone from digital -> analog -> digital. Its probably better then a VHS recording, but not a "perfect" copy anymore.
Also the other problem with this player. It only records 4.7GB per disc, which means all those dual layer discs (half of my very small collection of DVDs) must be recorded on 2 DVDs.
Spyky
Wow.. how informative you are.
/. post before commenting, if you did you would see:
Perhaps you'd like to read the
sanemind noted that Pioneer has announced the world's first consumer level DVD Recorder. Although they are only available in Japan, and the blanks will cost 30-plus bucks, it's still pretty sweet.
It already said it's only avaliable in Japan...
And even if it is only avaliable in Japan at the moment, that doesn't mean it isn't coming here soon... For example: Playstation and Dreamcast were avaliable in Japan first and then came here a little while after..
Does this mean that the case against the creators of decss is void? If the majority of the court case is based on the fact that people could illegally copy DVDs, then shouldn't they be prosecuting Pioneer as well?
This isn't anything new to slashdot either:
h tml
http://slashdot.org/articles/99/11/26/1010222.s
I remember seeing that press release in December, and the date confirms its age.
Uh, "first consumer" DVD recordable? I think Apple has had DVD-RAM options at their online store for several months now. It even comes standard on the upper models.
LL
"If you are falling, dive." -Joseph Campbell
When the movie you're watching has a good storyline, you'll have no time to spot that difference.
:)
No matter what i'm watching, even the smallest imperfection in the movie will annoy me (besides, i did pay good money for it, or the medium i'm recording the show on). Especially if its repititious. I wouldn't buy it if i knew there would always be problems. I'm sure someone will figure out a chip that will kill the content protection tho. I'll wait untli then
Just because you think you are right, does not make you less of a common thief.
No, but the fact that he IS right does make him less then a thief. In fact, i believe it puts him on pretty high ground.
In the interest of completely downplaying this "momentous occasion," many companies have thus far created what they like to call DVD-writable drives... however, the ONLY and SINGULAR thing they share with DVD is the fact that it stores like gigabytes and that the disc is optical. You cannot read the discs in a DVD drive, DVD player, and in most cases any other drive but the brand that wrote it.
Is this drive any different? Okay, so maybe it writes on recordable discs similar to DVDs, and uses the DVD filesystem. The questions we ought to be asking is whether the discs are readable on current DVD drives and/or players and just how closely it follows the DVD "standard". And who gives said company the right to set the DVD-R standard, since none really exists AFAIK.
In other words justify your existance, sport.
I paid $300 for a 2x6 CDR drive, and it doesn't do CD-RW at all. However, I got it back in 1997, so I've had several years further use from it than if I'd waited. So I don't regret at all that it's an aged old dinosaur by today's standards. It's served me well, and if I'd waited... well, there's all sorts of data and stuff I'd still be streaming to tape or some other reliability/cost nightmare like Zip drive media.
And I'm not "stuck" with it. I can go out and buy a faster drive any time I want.
This we really need.
-Leo
... before we can play discs recorded in this on standard DVD players?
Reading the article it looks like the machine uses DVD-RW discs... so it's going to be more than a firmware upgrade to read it on older players.
Though is is quite good news I must say u probably should visit the link before posting. If you did you would see:
Tokyo, Japan, November 25, 1999
I'm waiting for the scsi version.
...and a published spec on how to interface to it.
--
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I hope we gt nice big CD style compilations of programs and clip art etc. ATM you can only get bloody films which is of absolutely no use to me. Maybe when people get to record their own DVDs, we might get some decent stuff that hasn't already been shown at the cinema. That will of course be easier when they bring out an IDE or SCSI version.
My largest concerns with DVD-Recorders are:
(1) will they ever make it to the US within a reasonable amount of time (1 year), or will they be held up forever by industry copyright concerns?
(2) Will these things really produce reasonable quality output? $30/disc will be a lot of money if you have to record in the 2hr mode to get something reasonable... I had a TiVo for a week and took it back because it just didn't produce a high enough quality picture in any mode that could record more than a days worth of programs.
I don't see why the Recording Industry A$$holes Association would object to this device. It states in the specs that it is designed to not copy content from CSS'ed source discs. Isn't this more of a "put your home movies on disc" type of thing? You could transfer every baby's-first-steps tape you own to one disc and mail it to the relatives! (or save it to drag out when "baby" grows up and starts bringing dates home...)
Freedom: "I won't!"
4+ gigabytes....
that's a lot of por...I mean, that's a lot of mp....I mean, that's a lot of linux software!
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
$30/disc doesn't bother me quite as much as about $2500 for the recorder itself.
-- Dr. Eldarion --
It's not what it is, it's something else.
Interesting. Too bad DVD players aren't ROM upgradable - it would definitely be an interesting concept, that is, if any already exist?
- Detritus
"I never really liked computers, but then the server went down on me"
... a couple months back I had a catalog (CDW I think) that had a Panasonic DVD recorder. Was around $599. Sure this is something new?
This machine uses NTSC color encoding, so this would seem to imply future plans for America, and the ability to buy one (and some discs) next time I'm in Japan.
John
I don't mean to be a karma whore, but I happened to be looking into this very issue last night, and I found a whole lot of information in the DVD FAQ. In particular, this section gives details on all the various writeable DVD formats.
Personally, I'm trying to decide whether to archive all my videotapes on VideoCD now, or wait for some kind of recordable DVD format. (Quality isn't an issue for these tapes; if it was, I'd just buy them on DVD.) My main problem with VideoCD is the 74 minute capacity, which is just enough to almost, but not quite, fit an entire movie...
MSK
This was cool the first time it was posted on slashdot, but not quite as much the second:0 222&mode=thread
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/11/26/101
I'm sorry to bitch, and usually I just bite my tounge, but sheesh. Can't we have some sort of quality assurance on slashdot?
of course it's old news, but i thought i should mention...
DVD-R and DVD-RAM has been around here in Oz for a while. DVD-R burners are 8 times more expensive than DVD-RAM, which is the wrong way around. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing the rewritable DVD-RAM's won't read in a standard DVD-ROM drive, making it much more expensive to pirate
it was the same with CD-R and CD-RW when they first hit the scene, but it wasn't long before standard CDROMs could read CDRW as well as CDR so I'm guessing DVDROMs will read DVDRAM before long. Standalone DVD units (ie. for your TV) are another story...
Hasn't Slashdot already covered this?
Wait until the market settles upon its favorite DVD recorder, then buy it. Who the Fu(K cares if you can't play the stuff you record on it over a basic DVD player? As long as the DVD recorder can play commercial Hollywood disks, then you might as well make it your primary box and ditch the basic DVD player altogether.
It seems to me that this might even be the natural evolution of the technology. People are always going to want to record Bab 5 episodes and dumb hockey tournaments, and once home DVD recorders get cheep and one recording medium prevails, people will want to buy 'em. I think the only way the industry will be able to prevent this trend will be to make the boxes inordinately expensive, and with so many manufacturers jumping on board to rush out DVD+RW units, it looks like that boat has already been missed.
Oh, and OEM versions for your computer won't be far behind.
It looks to me like Hollywood fu(ked itself by thinking like a big dumb, immovable pillar while life, as always, flows like water.
That's how I see it, anyway.
This strikes me as somewhat odd.... The press release is from nov '99. I have for some time now noticed online stores in my country listing "CD/DVD recorders" as a separate option. I just now popped by one site and it shows a Toshiba SCSI DVD RAM for less than 2000 NOK. This equates to somewhat below USD 250 and is about the same price as IDE CD-R units. Empty 5.2GB discs runs at around $60. This seems to be old old old news, not suitable for anything but the Slashdot archives. Then again the webstores around here could have stoned or drunk updaters, what do I know. -- Mas
Bad moderation ?????
#28
this AC surely is not a troll - to swear and let off steam is not trolling. I thought the coment was fair, but not otherwise deserving of attention. If in doubt - ignore.
#15
is not "funny"
#38
how is this insightful ? - the post conveys useful (unverified) information, surely "informative" or maybe "interesting"
is there a "rogue" moderator in the house, trying to make me trip up over all these silly descriptions.
Is a "rougue" moderator a Troll as a result? - then how to indicate this fact?
i am right, then i hope s(he) has no points left :')
First of all, this is really old news, according to the press release linked in the article, the recorder should be out for some months now (December 1999).
More interesting info about recordable DVDs at DVD-FAQ http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3
It looks like disks recorded on this will not be playable on legacy DVD players. The article says:
It also mentions that the Video Recording Format could be made compliant with DVD video but hasn't, you can probably guess the reason why.
As for copy protection macrovision is added on output and is not encoded onto the disk. Thus using the analogue input (scrubbed of macrovision) it should be possible to copy disks. As far as I know no one has incorporated an analogue Copy Generation Management System into DVD. I assume that the digital system will let you make one digital copy of a disk then stop any further copies. The disks that have CSS would probably have the appropriate flags to stop digital output working on a player with this facility (non exist yet).
The article goes further:
I assume that this means that each DVD-RW contains a ID so that only their disks can be used. However I don't see how this could be used to prevent unorthorized copies (you just need to use their recorders and media).It is not at all clear if you could record digital TV (cable or satallite) in a digital manor onto these devices. Would the cable company for you to pay for the privilege of recording their programs or would they prevent it and force you to buy a device such as a ReplayTV ?
In short this is a technology that has been hamstrung by the movie studios.
-dp
Introduction of Copy Protection Technology
The DVR-1000 complies with all available copy protection technologies {e.g. response to CGMS (Copy Generation Management System) signal and detection of Macrovision signal}, to protect copyrighted visual content from unauthorized copying which contradicts the intention of copyright owners. Furthermore, the DVR-1000 implements secure media ID detection functions, which form a key element in disabling playback of discs containing unauthorized copies. DVD-RW blank discs also contain the technology to prevent successful copying of discs protected by CSS* (Contents Scramble System).
*CSS is the encryption technology used for DVD-Video discs.
I wonder how well the encryption is on this.
Oh no, they'll probably prosecute me under the DMCA for talking about their propietary CSS standard. No, that doesn't make much sense, but the MPAA doesn't make much sense either...
for the drive (w/a review from cnet): http://computers.cnet.com/hardware/0-1096-404-1280 18.html?tag=st.cn.sr.co.1 for the discs: http://shopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/1,10231 ,0-7085-311-1609087,00.html?tag=st.cn.sr .sh.3
There's a special chip inside each of these devices that sends a special signal to Lars via mental telepathy.
Not only will he come and get you (and hold you upside down and shake you until your wallet falls out) but each signal that he recieves makes him even MORE annoying.
BEWARE!
[Connection closed by foreign host]
Uhh,
unless I am completely mistaken there is already a DVD-R device in existance which is/was priced around 10.000 USD and discs around 99 USD. Think this was produced by Philips. The recorded discs shold play in normal DVD-ROM drives.
Romor has it that it has been in use almost exclusively in pre-production.
Haven't seen it lately... Is there anyone who knows more about these??
Bye
Pioneer to sell first recordable DVD decks
Think about it... if you have a nice DV (digital video) camera, and one of these DVD recorders, you could make professional looking DVDs.
Or even, you can have this record TV shows, as it said in the article. Think about it, they said this will be able to record with RW discs... this could basically be like a smaller scale TiVo, with MUCH nicer quality.
I'm confident that's going to change rather quickly.
what does the availability of this machine say about the search for / pioneer's choice of a DVD audio system? i saw little detail with respect to that facet on the page, and as that's my primary interest in DVD, i'm quite curious.
I bought a DVD Player (set top box) at Circuit City about a month ago. The cheapest model was only $150. I've enjoyed having it, even if there aren't enough selections available for rent yet.
The 'Das Boot' DVD is just stunning. And I just got Brazil, which is quite nice as well.
Circuit City seems to be the only place with players that low. Don't make the mistake of buying an expensive player this early in the rollout of the format.