Slashdot Mirror
Penthouse.com Goes After Usenet Posters
Shibumi writes: "
Penthouse.com is starting to pursue legal action against persons who post material to Usenet from their pay site." At least they're going after the poster and not the usenet servers.
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
If people were violating the copyright on GPL'ed stuff by not following the license, I would support taking legal actions against those people to.
People who don't like the strings attached to someones copyrighted works should go find some other works that don't have those problems. Whether the copyright holder is MicroSoft, the author of a GPL'ed work who won't release it under the BSD license, or Penthouse, it makes no difference. There are always alternatives and by using those alternatives you will send a message that you don't like the strings the other people have attached.
SPF support for most open source mail servers can be found at libspf2.
I don't know the meaning of "tangible assets". (My native language is not english).
But, if you're saying what I *think* you are saying - that is - you're saying that its theft even when nobody actually LOSES anything - as long as the duplicator *earns* something on it - its theft.
I agree with you that making actual profit or getting your own expenses covered - in duplicating it - then you should be guilty of something.
But, if you copy it for your own personal use - and give it away to others without incurring ANY form of cost to the ones you're giving it away to (not getting any of your own expenses covered) - then it should not be illegal.
I know it *is* illegal now. But I think that is Wrong.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - arcade@kvine-nospam.sdal.com - arcade@efnet
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
I can't help but think of the similarities between this incident and that where M$ asked /. to remove posters comments. Grated the situatiion and environment are a little different, whereas PH is going directly to the poster and not the ISP, but in many cases such as when AC posts, the easier way to file suit is to file against the ISP and have them disclose information on how to contact the poster, such as IP or account information. I'm glad /. didn't cave in the M$ pressures, but the base is still strikingly similar. Taking copyrighted or licenced property and putting it into the wild or linking to it without permission. Ironic.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
Didn't you notice the part of his post where he said that YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE PROVEN GUILTY.
So whether you were actually doing it is irrelevant. The "I don't need any rights, because I don't have anything to hide" argument has a lot of holes.
--- "So THAT's what an invisible barrier looks like!" - Time Bandits
This guy was probably huddled over the warm, friendly glow of his monitor when they busted in the door. Must not have been a pretty sight!
Got Rhinos?
Katz, it's time for an article telling us how kids need access to this porn. It's on the net, it should be free, just like Metallica songs.
--
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
then it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
No Metallica mp3's, no Penthouse Pictures. It's starting to look like everything associated with the word 'wank' is being banned.
Find funky gifts
No, you're not.
Since the legal action against "Muad-Dib" the volume of postings has fallen through the floor.
It was pretty obvious what he was doing, and I'm surprised it took this long for PH to do something. I ASSume they were gathering evidence to make a legal bust (as opposed to their models and their phony busts)
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
...that's free as in handjobs, not free as in speech.
Cool, now we can have lots of new laws lobbied for by Penthouse magazine. Perhaps they will press for censorship of Usenet to filter out all the filth and smut that corrupts our children and damages Penthouse's business.
Alternatively, every model used by Penthouse could have a barcode tatooed onto her buttocks, so that pirated pictures can be easily and automatically recognized.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Not that I would know ofcourse, but I heard someone talk about it the other day. I didn't have a look or anything, it's just what I heard.
They have an interesting point that you don't hear from the music industry or software industry:
"Second, and equally important, is the fact that our pay site is an adult site. It is for adults only and we mean it. We take the responsibility of limiting access to our site and our content to adults very seriously."
You have to give them some credit there: with that one sentence, they actually got the parents on their side. For once, the liberals and Bobby G are on the same side!
What's your damage, Heather?
He posts binaries to a non-binaries group?
He should go to jail for violating the rule about posting binaries to non-binaries groups!
So, this does finally reveal who is behind the famed "Usenet Cabal" -- Penthouse Magazine!
Go Penthouse! :-)
Instead of using legal action, they should offer a free "modeling session" to anyone turning in a porn pirate.
--
Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Lets face it, Napster was created to trade mp3's. Trading mp3's that you don't own, under the current law, is illegal.
Let's face it, money was created to trade goods. Trading goods that you don't own, under the current law, is illegal.
Beautiful little non sequitur; that's the way to cloud the issues. Now, WTF is the point of that statement? Do you work for RIAA or something?
But I only post the articles honest...
"Do you think we could wipe out world hunger forever if scientists figured out how to make AOL's Free CD's edible?"-
I think that as long as the general public doesn't have a clue about newsgroups except maybe through deja.com, the studios will not throw too much of a fit. instead they'll complain about napster and DVD copying...
"Leave the gun, take the canoli."
this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
From my own humble experinces I have yet to meet a person in real life that doesn't use napaster illegal, I am aware that there are some users that use it for legal purposes, but personally, in the real world, I have yet to meet a one of them. From my own sheltered experinces, that is where I drawed the 0.00002 %, I was trying to convay a small user base of legal users, I am probably wrong.
Sorry for any pain or inconvience this may have caused slash dot.
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
so correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be justifying that Metallica identify the Napster users that are pirating their mp3's and bring them to court?
"See, they go after the poster, the one that commited the crime, slap him with a small fine and embrass the hell out of him so he doesn't do it again, penthouse gets from cash from it and everyone is happy. "
So Metallica should go after all hundred thousand users and slap them with a fine...
Lets face it, Napster was created to trade mp3's. Trading mp3's that you don't own, under the current law, is illegal.
"Metallica could learn a lot about the way penthouse is handling this."
Yes, they should go and sue all hundred thousand users that Metallica found trading their mp3's.
God bless the USA and the lawyers that infest us all.
Which is exactly why the compromise that is before congress is such a goodthing. Napster doesn't track users, so finding a user and going after them is difficult if not impossible. If Napster required some form of identification (even something as mundane as an address or something similar to what ISPs have) then they COULD go after the users. But, since Napster is allowing people to use their service anonymously, they don't have anyone else to go after. Good laws only work when all the sides work together to make them work.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
It depends on the state you are in. In Florida, the PD can impound your car for 1) buying or selling drugs in it. 2) soliciting prostitution from your car. 3) if your car was used in the crime (drive-by-shooting, getaway car). They can also take boats and planes and RVs.
Tom
Reality does not happen until you analyze the dots. -Don DeLillo (Underworld)
Hey idiot.
.. is WRONG. Correcting people all the time is the same as harrassing them. Not everyone spells perfectly. Lots of people have *severe* problems spelling correclty.
You and a LOT of other slashdot posters has a LOT to learn. Have you ever heard of something called dyslexia (or whatever way its spelled) ??
You (and other stupid assholes) are showing a level of attitude about spelling that makes me sick. Personally I just forget a letter now and then, and mispell a word from time to time - but I know people who proofread their material several times, but they've still got so many errors in their writings that you just have to laugh.
But correcting them
So please, AC. and others -shut the fuck up about spelling errors.
I'm sick and tired of it.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - arcade@kvine-nospam.sdal.com - arcade@efnet
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
First of all - I want to cheer Penthouse for doing things The Right Way.
.. what was it? £2500 ? Something like that. I copied it, played with it - and found that I didn't want to spend the time learning it. Then I deleted it. I don't have the possibility to pay £2500 at the age of 16 (when I copied it, some 4 years ago). I still don't have the possibility to pay that kind of sums.
They've uncovered the "badguy" - and gone after HIM instead of the carriers (i.e. the newsservers). They've gone after the person who abused their services - and not some innocent common carrier.
Their first point is - good. Even though I think we should rethink patents, copyrights and tradesecrets - more about that later.
Their second point on the other hand. The one about minors. Sure, it gives them a 'plus' in the almanac of christian puritans - but seriously - do you think they care? I don't.
And, the comparison between a bookstore is just stupid. The owner of a bookstore has a book less to sell - if its stolen. He has PAID for THAT book. Penthouse doesn't lose anything if someone copies their picture. Its copied - not lost. You cannot call it theft, when you still have your copy intact. Its duplicated, not removed. If it had been theft - this Muad'Dib would have to break into penthouse and steal their master copies. That DID NOT HAPPEN.
More about the first point - which I promised to rant more about.
The more I read about these cases of copying - the more I realize that we need to rethink the entire issue of copyright / patent / tradesecret. In this world, its *extremely* easy to make a copy. I've pirated music, I've pirated games - and I don't feel bad about it. I wouldn't have bought any of it - simply because I would have no way to afford everything I want.
I buy the things I can afford. But what I cannot afford to buy - I copy. I never had any possibility of buying Autodesk 3D studie for
Also, I cannot afford to buy every magazine I want in the store. I cannot afford to buy two dozens PC magazines. I buy a couple a month and read a lot of articles on the web - for free.
Of course, we have a problem if we remove copyright law altogether. We would then face the problem of an author writing a book - releasing it - and two days later another bookprinting-shop would release the same book, but cheaper - and they would earn money.. Then the author would lose money. The books would be available in the local store, but he wouldn't get royalties.
If, on the other hand, someone typed in the entire book, and posted it to a newsgroup. It would still be a breach of copyright, but you wouldn't get it in the store. You would have to spend lots of money on paper printing the book - and you wouldn't get a nice cover on it. And - nobody would earn money on you copying it.
The later, imho, should be allowed. If nobody earns actual money on the copying - it should be allowed. Specifically - by law.
.. in my opinion.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - arcade@kvine-nospam.sdal.com - arcade@efnet
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
oh, I'm not disagreeing. I think both groups should pursue legal action against those pirating their wares (not warez). However, I know it's not the general feeling in /. that ANY of the users have done anything wrong.
Metallica, and all those other bands, should be able to collect or fine those that have been illegally trading or repackaging their IP.
Yes Metallica should go after the users trading the mp3 files, not after napaster. The users are commiting the crime, not Napaster.
Think about it, go into a head shop, buy a bong then go smoke some weed out of it. When Mr. Police Man sees you smoking pot, who is he going to arrest, you or the head shop.
What law did the head shop break? None. What law did Napaster break? None.
Did you break a law when you started smoking pot? Yes (At least under the current laws in the United States). Did you break a law when you started trading copyrighted mp3's? Yes (At least under the current copyright laws in the United States).
Did usenet or [insert isp here] break any laws when they made there newsgroups public? No. Did you break any laws when you posted copyrighted porn to these news groups. Yes (At least under the current copyright laws in the United States).
So who is responiable you or the head shop? Who broke the law, you or the head shop? Who should get fined or put in jail, you or the head shop?
Napaster *CAN* be used for legal purposes as what the company claims, as bongs and newsgroups *CAN* be used for legal purposes as what the companies claim.
You can used Napaster to trade legal mp3's (like self-written, self-produced material) as you can use both bongs (for smoking tobacco) and newsgroups (for posting self-produced material). All which are pretty legal.
Does anyone use these things for legal purposes though? No not really, maybe 0.00002 % of the entire population.
Please take responiablity for your actions, even if sometimes you actions are illegal and may laid you in jail.
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Or in other words, as long as they're married, it's alright for them to have unwholesame appetites and use women purely for sexual satisfaction? That'd be the "marriage as legalised sex slavery" school of thought, then?
Besides which, marriage is an invention of religion, and not being religious, I do not take suggestions that I need to have my relationships officially "sanctioned" particularly kindly.
Pornography is degrading to both men and women. It encourages the myth that all men are interested in is looking at naked women and thinking about fornicating with them
No it doesn't. Men buying pornography might encourage that idea, and, oh, look at that, men do buy pornography. In fact, history has proved that if pornography is not available, people create their own.
You are also revealing your own sexism; pornography for women also exists. Strange though it may seem, women are also sexual creatures who can, shock, horror, get aroused by looking at pictures. I've even heard tales they can have their own orgasms, but I'm sure that's a myth.
and its whole purpose is to encourage the sin of onanism, something which God-fearing Christians know to be wrong.
IANABS, but wasn't Onan's sin that he didn't fertilise his wife when God wanted him to, i.e., his sin was disobeying God and not consummating his marriage. I don't believe there's anywhere in the Bible that states that a single man masturbating is a sin, but, like I say, IANABS.
A true man has no need to look at glossy pictures of naked women, they are quite capable of finding themselves a real woman...and dragging her back to his cave by her hair if necessary.
Actually, I think you'll find that population dynamics put forward very good reasons why not every man, no matter how "manly" will find a lifetime partner.
Women are exploited in these magazines with both the promise of money and the supposed "liberating" experiance of being photographed without any clothes on.
Hm. Have you actually talked to any of these women? Their general attitude tends to be that the liberating factor is the money. They're not doing for art's sake, they're doing it for their bank balance.
These are lies from an industry filled with perverts of the highest order, people for whom Satan is a way of life.
Good job you didn't mention any names there, or you could have been in for one (ehem) hell of a lawsuit. I very much doubt you could prove any member of the porn industry is a secret Satanist!
Being Christian is one thing. Not being able to face up to human nature and blaming Satan for it is another.
Rgasuya aata! : I have been coding Perl and cannot tell where my fingers are now!
alright then, we're agreeing.
but then I feel Metallica does have a legitemate beef with Napster since it's quite obvious that Napster was not making an effort to enforce its T&C by shutting down users trading copyrighted mp3's. In not enforcing its ban on pirated material, Napster was assisting in the crime of pirating. They DO have the necessary information to track down a user and ban them since they collect the personal info when you register.
Based on this, Napster should have complied with the lawyers instead of fighting them tooth and nail. If they had complied, then Napster would have established itself as a genuine article that wasn't JUST created to pirate mp3's, but to trade mp3's that were allowed to be traded.
Why on Earth would the subject of immortality be a joke?
So you're saying if you don't read Penthouse you'll live forever? Hmmm. Nope, I'll take the boobies, thanks.
I challenge you to show us where he claims to love satan
Your "Christianity" is like pick 'n' mix
AFAICT, your "Christianity" is just a front for bigotory and the desire to impose your will on others. 99% of the BS you spout has little to do with the scriptures.
Only by taking a stance against the Devil are you assured a place with our Lord in Heaven.
What a load of crap. This is a perfect example of you simply spinning shit that is not supported by anything in the bible. Again, I put it to you that you are simply using christianity as a front to impose your will on others. Christianity is supposed to be about a relationship with god, not about making a protest march against "satan".
Your path sounds more like one of self righteous and a zealousness about imposing your will on others.
Remember this - one day you will be found wanting and will suffer the consequences of your filthy behaviour.
And you'll just be grinning like a cheshire cat when he "suffers" and receives "the wrath of god" ? Yeah, that'd be right. You are full of hatred and spite for those who protest when you try to impose your will on them. I would rather be called a "satanist" than to be as full of bile as you seem to be.
"WItches" were publically burned in the "name of the lord". The spanish inquisition was conducted "in the name of the lord". Arabs were slaughtered in "the name of the lord".
While you sanction such attrocities, you go purple in the face at such "moral outrages" as women being paid first-world wages to pose in "dirty pictures".
You are truly a hateful and sick man, and I bet god is embarrassed to have you misrepresenting him. If it weren't for his infinite mercy, he'd sue you for defamation.
You don't need to be unmarried to view porn.
Pornography is degrading to both men and women.
How so ? I consider your patronising attitude towards those that are "exploited" to be degrading.
A true man has no need to look at glossy pictures of naked women, they are quite capable of finding themselves a real woman.
Are you arguing
(1) that anyone who is single is not a "true man" ? Where does the bible suggest this ? Your bigotry is disgusting. There are many perfectly decent men ( even christians !!! ) who have some difficulty finding a partner.
Women are exploited in these magazines with both the promise of money
Well it's a promise that is met, almost all the mags do pay up. Why are you so outraged by this "exploitation" ? They actually get good money for it, they are not "victims", and most of them would consider your attitude both chauvanistic and patronising. Do you own any clothing made in China ? There is real exploitation taking place in the world, workers locked in factories, etc, and while all this happens, you are more concerned about the "dirty pictures" stuff.
It is a symptom of the moral decay of modern society that the pornography business has become so huge.
No, it's a symptom of technology. Before then, we had prostitution, and that is not only a large industry but a very old one, and it thrived even in the "morally correct" victorian era. You can strike out the industry, but like it or not, "god" gave us sexual desires and industry or no industry, they won't go away.
Come on guys, break out the usual excuses for IP theft:
1) Those models don't really get that much money from the magazine, they make up for it by dancing live or giving lap dances or whatever
2) Theres only a few good pages in every issue of Penthouse, why do they make me buy all those pages I'm not interested in (like the ones with words on them)
3) The porn industry is controlled by the major players and they keep the prices too high anyway...
etc.. etc... etc...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
In Conneticut you can lose your car if you use it to solicit a prostitute.
Or how bout this one:
There's an article (from a libertarian point of view) on this here
---
What are the legal differences in going after the individual ? Won't the level of costs be determine by how much the information was diseminated ? This would be a result of the ISP rather than the individual.
This however appears to be almost the individual as a corporation. As Maud'Dib was servicing requests from others (ooerr). Sort of like one individual on Napster acting as the sole copier of Metallica CDs.
Personally I think that these various cases addressing the different issues (negligence in the part of Napster, copyright violation by Napster users, and this one theft and distribution) are a good thing(tm) for us all. By allowing the LAW to determine what is right and wrong you can remove many problems associated with letting Politicians and "interested parties" defining the process.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
> > Wouldn't sex without the intent to bear a child be wasting
> > a "seed"? Isn't birth control a "sin"?
> Not as long as you have already fufilled the purpose and
> created a child, no.
Dear me, dear me, dear me. I am shocked. Your words are ghastly. This is absolutely horrible. You mean to tell me that you think unlimited hedonistic fornication is not a sin just because you and that harlot of a wife of yours have already had a child once? Dare you to mouth such heresy before the open public? Do you suppose, in your vanity, that the fact that you are a parent bleaches out the black immorality of your pleasure-seeking lustful genital connections?
This is a lie and an abomination against all decency and sanctity, as you are well aware. Holy Church doctrine clearly states that the only excuse that is acceptable for any instance of sexual congress is the intent to create a child during that one particular act of copulation. The incidental fact that you might once have had a child doesn't free you from the indelible stain of lewdness, should you and your Hell-bent wife shamelessly indulge your gross appetites for the sheer pleasure of such indulgence, as you have already publicly confessed to so doing. In fact, even to merely contemplate so nightmarish an obscenity -
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
is the very depth and nadir of mortal sin.
Hell yawns wide for such as you, sex fiend. Hell, Hell, Hell, Hell, Hell, inevitably awaits you. Doomed sinner! Lewd, proud fool! You are damned! You have fallen! And you can't get up.
Unmercifully yours, WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
They are pursuing action against one single individual, who was COMPLETELY mirroring absolutely EVERYTHING in near realtime, from Penthouse's internal pay-site to Usenet.
Literally hours after being put up, shoots were appearing on Usenet.
In the time since the story (May 2) another person or two have taken up the 'mirroring'. I haven't heard whether he/they/(she?) have been brought to task yet or not.
Penthouse magazine contains pictures of naked women?? I was so busy reading the articles I never noticed!
--
Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Officials entered the subject's premises, which were then searched and all computer equipment and storage media found there were seized and placed under seal.
Why is it that they always sieze computer equipment in these cases? It strikes me as rather strange. I mean, if someone was distributing photocopies of a magazine from a car, then they wouldn't take the car off you after you had been caught, would they?
Find funky gifts
If the statement is true, that a large bulk of material has been copied from a pay site.. I say fair play to the guys. They pay their money to get the pics, and recoup it from memberships. I doubt very much that they'd have instigates such expensive and draconian measures if the quantity of material lifted from their site wasn't suitably vast. Maybe I'm missing something somewhere, but this seems a perfectly legit use of the copyright laws. Just my tuppence worth, Malk.
This is really good IMHO. Not that people are stealing porn, or penthouse is showing off it's huge uh legal team, but they are doing it the right way.
See, they go after the poster, the one that commited the crime, slap him with a small fine and embrass the hell out of him so he doesn't do it again, penthouse gets from cash from it and everyone is happy.
If penthouse decided to go after the news group or hosting provided, this would be a bad thing almost as stupid as if Metallica went after Napaster instead of the users.
Metallica could learn a lot about the way penthouse is handling this. Like I said a million times before, dam Metallica really needs to get some porn and just fsck chill out.
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
And of course Deja specifically refuses to carry the binaries unless you pay them extra, which most people do. Hell I couldn't even put a screenshot into alt.binaries.games.quake because they said it was a "Spam Zone", yet alt.troll is alive and kicking :(
The copyright violation is wrong and should not be taken lightly. Penthouse has every right to make money on their product.
By the way, exactly what newsgroup was this posted on? I just want to um... do some research on copyright violation.
Nope it was Hustler that had all those legal troubles. And this matter has nothing to do with freedom of expression. They are not going after posters who are posting pictures of themselves. ( Which would fall under expresion )
They are going after posters who are distributing Penthouse Copyrighted material. ( Which falls under stealing )
Why is it that just because something is done online people automatically presume it's their right to do it? If you went out and bought say the New York times and then made 1000 copies of it and sold it or distributed it for free int the "real world", you would be arrested for copyright infringement. But it's ok to do the same online?
Look I applaud Penthouse for handling this the Right Way. They are going after the copyright violators, not the services those people are using, unlike the RIAA which is after the service providers.
Ex-Nt-User
for Rob to post a link to Penthouse!! I'm on to you Rob Malda........
I happen to agree with the many postings to the story of Open Source Leaders Speak About Napster, that copyrights should/must be respected - for many reasons, notably that the copyright laws also are what protects GPL et. al.
Even so, I've been worried about the fuzz of napster, where the lawyers seemed to have had a hard time comprehending what exactly napster is and what exactly napster is not (the napster guys merely provide a service - some people are abusing that service, but not the napster-guys) - and in the name of "copyrighting" and "protection of property" (be that intellectual or not, depending on taste in music...).
It's good to see, that penthouse have taken a slightly different approach, and understood what USEnet is and is not - and have attacked the "problem" in the right way: by tracking and going after the people, not the medium.....
I just PRAY that they (being penthouse or the legal systems in various countries) will keep it that way, and not trying to enforce additional requirements of either the ISP's tracking the identity of every poster, scanning the postings etc....or even worse: that eventually it makes someone going after (gasp) the servers, to where the offending material is being probagated.
But for now: credit to Penthouse. They have very good points, they have the law on their side - and they seem to be doing the right thing with it....
-- "Life is a bitch - and she hates me..."
I think its interesting no one is defending the copying of porn, the prices and quality of the porn industry makes the RIAA look like an overpriced and pretentious 'zine factory.