Slashdot Mirror
AOL/Gateway/Transmeta Team for Internet Appliance
OK, so now it seems almost official. According to this
story in the New York Times (free registration required) - AOL/Gateway will announce their
Transmeta/Linux based Web appliances today. The article is particularly
interesting since it details the motive behind AOLs going counter
Wintel, And Transmeta's Ditzel says it best: "The truth is that the
phrase Internet appliance has become a code word in the industry meaning
'no Windows.'" And dare I say: no Intel too... But only time can tell
if this is going to be as big as AOL/Transmeta hope. Thanks Eitan for the Link.
Now we see the downside of OSS--all us geeks doing cool things to impress each other has produced an open source WebTV.
--
This is not my sandwich.
I want a nice transmeta based laptop. I'm not sure that I want to learn how to write on one of those touch screens with some sort of palm like language... (cant recall what its called). I mean, there's a big market for cheap laptops - thats what I want. Nothing fancy, just a cheap laptop with a long battery life and cheap sound and not too bad a display (800x600 or something). That's all I want. It's hard to get, so far.
I'm not sure I want a webpad, altho they are cute.
Can someone tell me why low power is important in an internet appliance?
I realize that this is just pr-speak, but still, it should make some sense.
Or you could just use the partner s.nytimes.com link.
My two cents...
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
1) Low-power == low-temp == smaller box
2) If the "appliance" is supposed to be portable (or "wireless"), then low-power == longer uptime.
3) A good internet appliance is "always on"--so low-power == lower cost
4) Low-power == tree-hugger happiness
--
Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
* the desktop being killed by IA and connectde devices
* the way AOL gets into controlling Information and means to access such info
My guess is that in 10 years from now will have a AOL case very similar to the actual microsoft case. (Microsoft killed passive terminal by controlling the os, and then killed competition).
none Yet.
Let's replace her with one of the cows Gateway modelled their boxes after - it's talk just as much sense.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
"...AOL is out for one thing and one thing only, that's to make money for their shareholders..."
Unlike RedHat and Transmeta who have a policy of stealing from shareholders and giving to hungry orphans?
--
Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
The case "for" is simple enough: make it cheap and idiot-proof. If anyone has a background in working on making the internet cheap and idiot-proof, it's AOL. You may not like their style, but you must concede their relentless drive to AOLize the internet. A foray in hardware is about diminishing returns to scale in software.
Consider, you are AOL. Your program right now is fairly simple for first-time users. But it still sits atop a legacy system that is in itself not so intuitive. Solution? Ditch the legacy.
AOL is actually big enough to somewhat pull this off. Especially now: the Wintel establishment has been wounded on two fronts. AMD has challenged the Intel hegemony, and the DOJ and Linux have undermined Microsoft's aura of unassailability. Suddenly, all the other sharks can smell blood, and are circling for some action.
Let us also note that minicomputer makers - and there were dozens, in their heyday - scoffed at the underpowered clunkers made by IBM. "Peecee". As if there should be a computer *per person*. Puh-lease!
Evolutionary pressure is an amazing thing. PCs evolved out of pretty much nothing into the bedrock of an entire industry. They did not wholly supplant what came before (mainframes and minis), rather, they marginalised them and extended their range of usefulness. A mainframe is no longer a standalone giant in a pen; it is a viable "force extender" for a corporate network of PCs. Mainframes are marginalised by PCs, but also sustained by synergistic adaptation to the new reality.
It may be this way with the general-purpose PC and function-oriented computers. This Brave New World has been the source of much speculation by futurists over the years, so I shall skip past it.
My own outlook is that IAs will eventually evolve to become PCs as we understand them now. People will want to write letters on their IA, and won't really understand why they need to buy a seperate machine to do that. So IAs will emerge with the power to do so. Before long they will have HDDs and user-fsckable GUIs. That is, they will be PCs by another name.
This market is seething and will continue to seethe. Expect either a big player (like AOL) to "make it happen", or for something much more interesting to emerge from nowhere and sweep the whole thing away.
be well;
JC.
--
"Don't declare a revolution unless you are prepared to be guillotined." - Anon.
Classical Liberalism: All your base are belong to you.
I think this will be interesting to see how AOL is involved in this product.. I can see it going one of two ways.. one being that AOL is pushing this product to try and push netscape 6 onto the handheld/appliance (shudder) market so that this can be a totally wintel-free market.. the other being as a way to make AOL the only way to get the internet on these devices.. I wonder if they will tie this specifically to AOL's ISP service.. I certainly hope not. I don't want AOL to be fighting microsoft's monopoly just so it can replace it with one of their own..
As long as this box.. (can I call it a box anymore? maybe not.. which means these aren't 80xx3n.. and p4d is just no fun at all.. trolls.. ruminate on 1337-5p33k|ng w38p4d for me and report back in a day or so) is ISP-independant, it could be a great thing for transmeta, linux, etcetcetc.. otherwise I won't buy one.
//Phizzy
"Most European technology just isn't worth our stealing," -- Former CIA chief James Woolsey, referring to Echelon
Versions of AOL that run on *nix? As scary as that could be (supporting the AOL installation.... ./configure what?!?! make huh!!), maybe preconfigured AOL on somewhat secured distro could lead to a wider spectrum of peoples who would be willing to try something new/better/different. Furthermore, the AOL user could be the ultimate typical enduser to get into the feedback loop while we build a Linux for 'the rest of them'.
Someone who puts his dog, hamster or cat on the net is not collecting information on me, and I can just choose not to go there. The real danger is companies. The net should be for humans (with some pics of cats, and maybe the occasional talking chimp)
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
So let me get this straight:
The world's most closed public access network service(AOL) is planning to use one of the most open infrastructure operating systems(Linux) to combat the most self-doubting software company we've ever seen(Microsoft) by teaming up with ambitious but still waiting to break through firm(Gateway) and an inordinately secretive skunkworks shop(Transmeta) that happens to employ the creator of that aforementioned extremely open operating system(Linus).
Essentially, AOL trumpets an age of freedom(No MS, No Intel) by ushering in products that will likely be a long-studied model of consumer entrapment(cheap devices that only connect to AOL). Of course, such tactics wouldn't have worked that well back when AOL had teams of lobbyists seeking to make sure nobody could monopolize the net access market(the "Open Access" push) but that push has mysteriously disappeared now that AOL would be in the position of having to open its access(thinks it'll merge with Time Warner.) Meanwhile, AOL deserves superlative credit for crafting an Online Experience positive enough to drive an unacknowledged portion of the Net economy(Excellent UI design), but they've included enough code in their new revision to prevent customers from exploring other services(Roach Motel 5.0).
Guh. It's corporate tennis...you never know who's playing what side of the court, you just see your head going back...and forth...and back...and forth...
"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."
--(Best attribution for this quote, besides Ash, gets a cookie.)
Yours Exhaustedly,
Dan "I Can't Believe It's Not Justice" Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Of course, according to the business reporter on the radio, this deal involves "LIN-icks" and "trans-MAY-tah." Unless this actually is how they are pronounced. I don't usually hear the terms spoken aloud...
We've got a rather large AOL/TW/Netscape....and now Transmeta?! alliance. And there are a bunch of other companies in on this, all of which I forget now. This is a massive alliance, probably one that makes Bill Gates seethe; after all, he's facing all sorts of endless legal crap from the eternal DOJ proceedings, isn't he, and his empire is being threatened.
Say Bill suddenly decides to concede. "Yes, I'll help fragment Microsoft. You want it when, Miss Reno? Certainly." He pays off Netscape and the other companies that have been wronged by Microsoft. Bill Gates is Mister Good Guy: does what the legal system tells him to.
Now he's got a clean slate. He strikes a deal with the AOL alliance. He keeps his friends close, and his enemies closer. All one big happy family, right?
He buys them all and rules the world. End of story.
Well, it might not happen, but how good an idea is it to align smaller, more useful companies with giants like AOL? Sure, there are some benefits, but they're all Another Big Company. It surprises me to hear Transmeta is allied with AOL.
On another note: Some posters wondered about how "dumbed-down" the software on these machines will be. Well, it might be Linux. It might not. But if it is, I'm thinking it will be mostly functional, but set up for the average idiot.
A similar scenario is probably installing Linux on my iMac through VirtualPC. (Don't laugh; it was all I had available.) The disk image installed itself with no questions asked, and when I booted I found the configuration was for the average newbie: init was set to 5, the X resolution/color depth sucked, and so on. Still functional, but some configurations had to be changed to get to what I'm used to.
Oh well. I'm sure I'm rambling, but I'm just a bit disgusted with big companies.
Angry IT woman in big clompy boots. And talking lint!.
Ok, so the web gets bought out, usenet descends into screaming anarchy, irc is full of weenies. We despair.
.. that's always going to be where the clueful will outnumber the clueless!
The "plebs" aren't going to go away, as they own the internet now. (Scary, isn't it?) So what do the technically and socially intelligent do? Adapt.
Create some artificial barriers to entry. Create virtual communities. Enforce social contracts (e.g. the Debian one, but the GPL is also a form of social contract) to create the societies we want. Let the commercial outfits fund and support us - they pay for our bandwidth and space so we see their ads, but we don't buy their products.
Freenet is an interesting example: not many people are freenet nodes at the moment, and not many people are putting stuff in it, because it's not finished.
Let's have some more unfinished, uncomfortable, hard to use, elitist and exclusive user communities
I have to admit, this is a bit difficult for me to swallow the way it's presented. Come on, AOL running in Linux? It sounds like either a horrible nightmare (to linux geeks and AOL lusers alike), or maybe too good to be true (Linux is being accepted as a mainstream alternative).
Okay, the article doesn't specifically mention that the AOL client will be available for Linux, it only mentions Netscape. So maybe AOL is only making a non-AOL-based box. But then I read where they're offering it to current AOL subscribers. Well, they'd have to offer AOL services then.
So how will AOL port their software to Linux. They can barely manage to keep the Mac version in sync with Windows. So a complete version for Linux being developed in a few months sounds near impossible. They could take a cue from Corel and try using WINE, but then their software is buggy enough to begin with.
A while back I read about AOL trying to move their specialized content away from proprietary formats and using more standardized methods. That was a while ago, and enough time for them to develop a slimmed-down version of the software that access AOL content using standard internet protocols.
But what if they have managed to port the entire AOL codebase to linux, complete with AOL dialer. Then it would be in their best interest to offer the software for download, giving plenty of Linux users who use (or have family members who use) AOL a good reason to abandon dual-booting. I can believe that there are at least a few people who have left AOL specifically because they wanted to migrate to Linux.
But then the part of me that equates "AOL" with "ignorance" steps in. (DISCLAIMER: It's a stereotype, not entirely unjustified, but still far from reality. I'm well aware of the generalization, so there's no need to point out any "examples" of why it's wrong.) So let's argue the Pros and Cons.
CON: I still like to think that Linux has a "clue-shield" about it that prevents people from being able to use it without having to learn a thing or two. AOL is the antithesis of Linux in this respect; it is designed to remove all barriers to the clueless, and specifically panders to them. PRO: Plenty of intelligent people use AOL for various reasons. No need to shut them out.
CON: Following their design philosophy, AOL would want to prevent their users from having to deal with the "complexities" of Linux. They may disguise, take over, or outright cripple Linux in ways that prevent the user from messing with anything that AOL doesn't want them to. PRO: Linux is flexible. Those who want to use it will find a way to turn off the AOL-izations.
CON: Tons of linux-neophytes will now be using, and misusing Linux. IRC channels and newsgroups will be inundated with idiots who don't know what a HOWTO is asking pointless questions. PRO: (and this is different how?) This is the result of continually promoting Linux as a better solution that Windows. You can't have it being both popular and restricted to only those who know.
CON: AOL sucks. PRO: No one's forcing you to use it.
CON: AOL lusers suck. PRO: Elitist bastard.
CON: F*** YOU! PRO: Oh, smeg off!
Okay, my argument has run out of steam. And it's all pure speculation anyway. We don't really know what AOL is doing for this appliance thingy. Maybe it really is going to be web-only and if you want AOL content you'll have to stick with Windows. Until we see an official press release about this, all we can do is blather nonsensically with our thumbs up our butts.
Not that anyone really cares. I know I don't.
PS. I just noticed that the article is written by John Markoff. I long ago decided to dismiss anything Markoff says as pure bullshit. But then this is just parrotting from a press release, so...
PPS. Anyone else notice how much it looks like an iBook? Can you say "Trade dress ifringement"?
Any sufficiently advanced civilization is indistinguishable from Gods.
Here in the UK email and internet through your TV is one of the things that the digital TV companies are pushing to compete. Offered the choice between another device or getting the internet through the TV, I think the people who have not got a PC by now are far more likely to go for the TV option.
(yeah yeah I know, you get crappy resolution through your TV, and you still have to have an extra box attached to it... but it seems to be one of those things that says 'easy to use' better than any separate device)
My own outlook is that IAs will eventually evolve to become PCs as we understand them now. People will want to write letters on their IA, and won't really understand why they need to buy a seperate machine to do that. So IAs will emerge with the power to do so. Before long they will have HDDs and user-fsckable GUIs. That is, they will be PCs by another name
This is what scares me. (And excites, too) People want to write a document on the IA. 'Why should I need a new computer?' they say. So, someone fills the need. In my fears, this is Microsoft. They have a web-based (with ActiveX) word processor. You can use it to write great docs, but you have to pay a monthy fee for the service.
See, At the moment, no company has yet been able to charge using the subscription model for mainstream software. Users won't hear of it. 'What if My subscription runs out when I have a big presentation?', and the companies aren't sure how to go about enforcing. But, with a web-based approach, users must log in. The system verifies the account status (and maybe allowed subnet for that account?), and they go on using WebWord. Stop paying? no problem, you just can't edit your docs, or print them.... And if MSWebWord stores your files 'securely' on the server, you can't even have someone else access them. All for your convenience.
That's just one scenerio. Hopefully, a free solution would be available, but the problem with that is server bandwitdh.. I'm sure ads would creep in somewhere (not that that's a problem at all).
Anyway, just some rants and raves. Don't take me too seriously.
I work remotely all day long. I have VNC sessions onto servers. I'm planning to change my home network topology so that my main working machine will run vnc sessions too, so I can log in from anywhere I choose to.
That's where these appliances come in.
This summer the freepad (http://www.freepad.net/) will be released. It runs on linux, uses nano-X for graphics, and a "developer's" version will follow the initial release.
I plan to get me the developer version, find or port vnc viewer, and have me a presto portable workspot. Wherever i want to work in the house then, all I'd need to do is take it with me. Instant full access to my full-size PC, and yet it only weighs 1.2 kg.
The power of these devices lies in their combination with servers, not as separate units. And AOL realizes that to it's fullest. Think about it ? Why would they want to trim down the client side ? If they trim it down it can run less, while it's in their interest to let it run more. They intend to get these things out there, and then offer server-based add-on services. If I made bets I'd bet a lot on that one.
Anyway, I can't wait for it to happen, we've been trapped at our desks way too long.
And, no, a regular portable PC is still too big to really be portable. I know, I have one, I rarely get the chance to really use it to it's fullest because it's too clunky. I get more work done on my palm than on my portable.
I want a nice transmeta based laptop.
I wonder if this will be an "iOpener" situation again where people get the hardware and hack it to hookup to their own ISP or even better, erase the flash and install their own version of Linux on it.
My bets are that AOL/Gateway/and company has already learned from the mistakes of the other companies and will somehow prevent this.
We'll see...
While the AOL/Gateway device using the Crusoe CPU may be technically a fine idea, there are some issues we need to settle here.
First, will there be local data storage available for this device, or will it become a glorified "dumb" terminal?
Second, will this device allow the playback of streaming A/V files in Real G2, Windows Media and Quicktime 4.x formats? Or how about plugins such as Macromedia Shockwave/Flash and Adobe Acrobat Reader?
Third, what kind of connection beyond the obvious V.90 analog modem will available?
And finally, will it be AOL-only, or can we set up settings from our own ISP?
Gateway has the right idea, but unless it can connect to any ISP the customer chooses and can use the standard browser plugin programs, it's not going to be as popular as AOL thinks.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
No. In Spanish, "Spain" starts with an E.
Will I retire or break 10K?
This is Gateway, the company which, confronted with allegations of spam, said "our legal team is pretty sure that what we're doing is not illegal".
Doesn't that fill you with confidence in how they'll handle privacy issues?
(Anyway, given that Gateway was the only company whose sales reps outright laughed at me, and made fun of me for asking about non-Windows systems, when I was last looking for a laptop, I have trouble believing they're serious.)
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Hey, if they can make these things cheap enough, maybe AOL will just start sending Matchbox computers to everyone in the mail just like they used to send CD's. Just think, in a month, you'd have enough for a Beowulf cluster.
--------- Beware the dragon, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
CNN (the talking head, sorry no link) just told me it would be a Gecko-based browser, which leads me to believe that you won't be running XTerms on this pad. They're probably using a custom browser based application built on Gecko (that part of Mozilla works pretty well) with Linux as the stable operating system.
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
"Got Linux?"
IEEE's Spectrum Online has an article with schematics of just how the Crusoe chip was developed.
Excellent detailed article on the chip, its design, and the history of Transmeta. Probably the most extensive and comprehensive article I've seen on the fledgling company. Of course it was wriiten before the AOL/Gateway deal so its now a bit out of date.
Work for Change & GET PAID!