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Intel tells Harvard, 'Cover that Mac!'

datarealm writes "In a story on yahoo, Intel badgered Harvard into covering all iMac kiosks during an Intel sponsored event. Apparently the Intel provided covers trapped heat, forcing the machines to not only be covered, but also powered down." How much of is this happening in donations to education, and what questions need to be asked when companies sponsor these kind of things?

19 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. this is just ridiculous by fluxrad · · Score: 4

    guest: what was that thing over there?

    really smart harvard guy: what thing? (acting nonchalant)

    guest: that thing...it looks like an imac with a cover over it?!?!

    really smart harvard guy: that...uh...that was a pigeon!


    FluX
    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network

    --
    "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
  2. Coke / Pepsi, too! by Animol · · Score: 4

    A lot of the same stuff (brand wars) is going on in junior high and high schools with Pepsi and Coke - Not just early advertising, but downright force of product in order to get donations. Is it just me, or is brand-consciousness going WAAAAY overboard here?
    It's not like Intel was totally in the wrong in not wanting competitor products in the faces of the participants, but this kind of in-your-face no-holds-barred product endorsement smells almost like extortion to me.

    --

    "I'm not even supposed to BE here today!"
    1. Re:Coke / Pepsi, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3

      this reminds me of an article/picture from a few months/years ago (vague enough for you?). It was a show on MSNBC where they were showcasing some webpage. The fun part was they the hosts were using a Mac, and even better, were using Netscape Navigator. Was fun to see a network that has "Micro$oft" in its name not only snubbing Internet Explorer, but Windows all-together. I remember the justification being that they used what worked best or was most economical.

      -Cheebus

      /So I haven't set up an account yet. Shoot me.

    2. Re:Coke / Pepsi, too! by gilroy · · Score: 3
      A few people have written that this sounds too goofy to be true. Alas, there is no such thing as "too goofy to be true"...

      Quick summary: In 1998 March, a kid at a school wore a Pepsi shirt on "Coke Day", when his school was trying to win some contest for most Coke-themed day or something. He was suspended for "disruption" and for ruining the picture they were trying to take. It's a pretty sorry story, actually.

      Here's list of links to stories on the affair:

      http://www.adbu sters.org/campaigns/commercialfree/toolbox/coke.ht ml
      http://www.corpwa tch.org/trac/corner/worldnews/other/other122.html
      http://www.sjmercury.com/digita lhigh/news/coke98.htm

  3. Re:Declining morals? by Brian+Knotts · · Score: 3
    What I am saying is that it is ethically wrong for an educational facility to put the aquisition of mony above the quality and consistency of its education.

    I believe this is the case whether the money being pursued is corporate or from taxpayers (i.e., teachers indoctrinating students to push their parents to vote in favor of bond measures).

    Don't get me wrong; educators are entitled to make a living. However, they should be primarily interested in turning out well-rounded, educated youth.

    --

  4. I don't think so by Brian+Knotts · · Score: 5
    Ok so put the boot in on European social welfare models of economy, but hey at least when it works it protects the education sector from having to do this kind of dealing rather than educating people...sigh...

    But we in the U.S. had schools free of this nonsense for two hundred years.

    I think it has little to nothing to do with our economic model; I think it has to do with a declining sense of morals and ethics among educators, and really among people in general.

    It's simply ethically wrong for a school to enter into these types of arrangements. But the focus in education in the U.S. over the past twenty years has been money, money, money. The teachers' unions have been pushing for more money every election, despite the obvious fact that money (above a certain baseline) has no relationship to the quality of education. Our most horrendous schools in the U.S. happen to be in the school districts (like Washington, D.C.) with the highest per-student expenditures.

    Our privately-run schools tend to do a much better job, while spending a fraction of the money of the state-run schools. The figures from a few years back were, I think, in Los Angeles, $7,200 per student in the L.A. Unified School District vs. $3,000 per student in the Catholic schools there. And the Catholic schools were turning out better educated students, even though they also had a reasonable share of economically disadvantaged students.

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  5. see it by jbarnett · · Score: 5


    Intel Guy: If you can't see them, they can't see you

    Havard Guy: Uh? Are you referering to the Macs?

    Intel Guy: They don't exist, if I can't see them they don't exist

    Havard Guy: Sure they do look [removing cover to reveal an iMac]

    Intel Guy: PUT IT BACK ON!!!! PUT IT BACK ON!!!!

    Havard Guy: [quickly re-covers the iMac]

    Intel Guy: [starts rocking back and forth] STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE, STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE, STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE!

    Havard Guy: Are you alright Sir, can I get you a glass of water or something?!?

    Intel Guy: [is still rocking back and forth] STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE, STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE, STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE!

    Havard Guy: Please settle down, can I get your anything, you want to sit down, a glass of water?

    Intel Guy: [still rocking back and forth] THEY DON'T EXIST, MY CEO TOLD ME SO, THEY DON'T EXIST, MY CEO TOLD ME SO. THEY TOOK US INTO A ROOM AND GAVE US THESE SUGAR CUBES AND MADE US WATCH IMACS GET BROKEN AND SMASHED. THE VIDEO HAD MILLIONS OF MACS GETTING DESTORIED, THEY SAID THEY DESTORIED ALL OF THEM, THEY SAID THEY DON'T EXIST!! THEY DON'T EXIST, MY CEO TOLD ME SO, STEVE JOBS IS THE CATCHER IN THE RYE!

    Havard Guy: [being sly] the Mac's died in the 1990's when Intel realsed the pentium that destoried them all [??]

    Intel Guy: [shaking and in a cold sweat] what is going on, where am I, what happened?

    --

    "`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
  6. Why Intel Wins by Effugas · · Score: 4

    The point is not that Intel took some hits from demanding that these iMacs be convered. The point is that any other college budget approver, looking to see what he can do to optimize funding, may fear purchasing an iMac because Intel may pass them over.

    That's the idea. Buy Apple, and your students suffer. Buy Intel, and your bribe is on its way.

    There's a strong difference, of course, between the certainly legitimate and healthy educational activism of Intel and straight bribery. What Intel's staff failed to recognize was that by harassing Harvard's staff, they converted whatever positive good will they could get from the event into a negative, tainted force.

    Fear can buy you alot. Respect buys you more. That's a hard lesson to learn; hopefully Intel will learn from this. Paranoid responsibility is valuable. Paranoid violence leads to the very press-connected Harvard getting harassed. Oops.

    They'll learn. It's in their character--or at least, it was. If it still ain't, well, AMD can pop open some champagne glasses...

    Yours Truly,

    Dan Kaminsky
    DoxPara Research
    http://www.doxpara.com

  7. Direct link to Crimson story by embobo · · Score: 4

    Direct link to Crimson Story without all the inane Yahoo editorializing.

  8. True or not by RottenApple · · Score: 3
    Well, there have been some articles like the one we talk about now.


    ["A company in the PC business" hindered Macs from public view, or access.]


    But.. I've never heard that the Apple did the similar thing ever.


    Are the companies in the PC business not moral, or the Apple people are stupid enough that they can't protect their business, or.. simply the article were just rumor?


    If it's true, it's very serious issue. Maybe it's worse case than the MS's dominance in the PC industry.

    Here in Korea, you can't publish any advertisement which compares products of one company with products of another company directly, whether it's true or not.
    I don't think it's allowed in the U.S. also.
    And.. the case we talk about is much more serious than that.


    Hmm..

  9. Intel and Others: Out of touch by Badgerman · · Score: 4

    Intel, Microsoft, AOL, other companies - we've seen them judged as evil, manipulating, grasping, etc. One trait that is not often considered is that they are also out of touch - and the case of the "Mac War" is an excellent example.

    Remove Macs in use in a department that's 90% Mac? Threaten to pull funding over a childish tiff? Forget any moral questions - how stupid can people be?

    This does nothing more than make people bitter and angry and make the company look bad. It's made national news, its been displayed here, and now Intel looks a bit stupider. Is anyone involved in this fiascon on the Intel side thinking?

    Some of the big Info/Tech/Soft companies remind me of companies in Hollywood - churning out product and making policy with no idea what's going on or what the repercussions are. I have to wonder how long they can dodge real life.

    --
    "The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
  10. Education and corporate sponsorship by GrayMouser_the_MCSE · · Score: 5

    Actually, the really scary thing here has nothing do with Intel and market share, but how much an educational institution can be beholden to one of its benefactors. This was simply a case of a corportation donating money to a university, then dictating to that university how things ought to be run...

    As long as our educational institutions feel the need to play along with corporate sponsors, these situations will continue to occur. And with all the big money grants and donations available, more and more schools will feel the urge to get some of that money for themselves. Unfortunately, this can only hurt the students and faculty, ultimately.

    If an institution of higher learning is beholden to _any_ interest, corporate or otherwise, they can longer freely pursue their academic interests in _all_ avenues, if a free, unfettered way. That would be a greater blow to our freedom than anything MS or Intel or any other monopoly has done to date.

    --
    Of course I use Microsoft. Setting up a stable unix network is no challenge ;p
    1. Re:Education and corporate sponsorship by Windigo+The+Feral+(N · · Score: 3

      Refrag dun said (in regards to a thread on donors and stuff like frats):

      This sounds like a campus legend. In other words, it sounds like BS. It's very similar to a similar legend about why my university didn't have a football team.

      It may not be as large of an "urban legend" as you think. Cumberland College (a Baptist college in Williamsburg, KY) did not have a football team for some fifty years because one of the major donors to the college fund stipulated as a condition of her donations that the college NOT have a football team (her son had been killed in a football accident).

      Upon her death, the first thing Cumberland College did was set up a football team. :)

      (Yes, the college had other sports (basketball, among other things); yes, this can actually be confirmed by asking the college officials themselves. I know of it because my sister attended college there both before and after the college had a football team.)

      Especially at private, small schools, such conditions on donations are NOT entirely unusual. For that matter, our own government in the US puts conditions on funding all the time (there's a standing rule that all funds to international health organisations like WHO and UN health programs cannot be put to use for abortion or family planning programs, among other things)...in the case of universities, a big one is that they cannot discriminate on the basis of sex, religion, race, etc. if they are to get federal funding (yes, this includes Stafford loans and Pell grants, among other things). Why is it so unlikely that private donors can put strings in such as "Funding will continue as long as there are no fraternal organisations on campus"?

      (Don't even get me started on corporate sponsorships--my uni will probably end up having Papa John's as the only food outlet on campus, thanks to them paying for a multi-million-dollar football stadium. Many, if not most, big unis now are Coke-only or Pepsi-only establishments (hell, for all I know, small unis in rural Kentucky and Tennessee might go to being RC-only establishments :). If a donor is going to dump a large enough sum of money in a university's lap, they WILL whore themselves--this also goes for public and even private schools now [don't think you're going to get out of Coke-only schools by going Catholic or private--some of THESE are getting corporate sponsorship, too, and if you do NOT want a school that forces religious views down yer kid's throats you are quite literally SOL in large parts of the country--out of over 100 private schools in the Louisville metro area, all of four are non-denominational, one of these is a traditional school, and the other three are specialty schools for persons with various physical or mental handicaps such as the Deaf-Oral school or schools for kids with "emotional disorders"--also, keep in mind that private schools can literally reject a kid for ANY reason--the biggest reason they have "better" schools is they can literally cherrypick students).

      --
      -Windigo The Feral (NYAR!)
  11. Hmmm. by hey! · · Score: 3

    Before Intel pulled this stunt, I had no idea that Harvard had public, iMac based Internet kiosks.

    Now there are probably lots of other people out there who are thinking that maybe a nicely styled iMac with a trackball would make a pretty nice and relatively inexpensive kiosk for their campuses.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  12. Boarding Call for the "B" Ark by Detritus · · Score: 3

    I propose that we colonize Alpha Centauri. Marketing people, being so essential to our society, get to leave on the first ship, along with the telephone sanitizers and record company executives.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  13. What about Harvard's response? by tetrad · · Score: 3

    Intel clearly is not making any friends here. It's a dumbheaded move that will do them more harm than good.

    But what about Harvard? If you look at the Crimson Online story, you'll see that the Computer Services (FACS) group diod not believe that covering the Macs was the right thing to do.

    According to the article:
    (1) "FASCS Director Franklin M. Steen said he felt the request unfairly impaired student usage."
    (2) "[Steen] allowed the computers to be covered 'only after multiple request and great reluctance.'"

    So if Harvard felt that this was wrong, why didn't they refuse the request? It's a prestigious, rich institution that could have afforded to tell Intel to take a hike. If Harvard has to kowtow to the corporate gods, what kind of hope is there for other academic institutions?

    They probably figured it wasn't worth fighting. That's their decision to make, but still, it's kinda sad.

    1. Re:What about Harvard's response? by Spasemunki · · Score: 3

      Well, one reason that FASCS submitted to Intel's requests is that FASCS is not the might of Harvard University. They didn't ask on-the-way-out-the-door president Neal Rudenstein if they could cover the iMacs, they asked the guys who man the help desk in the science center. Is it worth your job to tweak the nose of the worlds largest chip maker while you're on the job? I would have probably done the same thing, in their shoes. I'm pleased that HASCS put up the fight it did. I do have one question: What the hell did they do with the two labs full of Alphas and Macs in the basement? They're clearly visable from the main level if you take the trouble to look down. Did they black the windows out, or just firebomb the whole lower floor? I mean, god forbid someone catch sight of someone checking their E-mail on a Unix box. . .

  14. I was at the conference and this is utter horsesht by DarthBobo · · Score: 5

    Not only was I an exhibitor right next to the covered Macs in question, but 5 years ago I was a student using those same Mac terminals to check my email.

    The Macs in question were directly (2 feet) behind 3 exhibitors - for students to use the terminals they would have had to have been continuouslly tromping through the the exhibits. There were 20+ exhibits in all - Intel had one, and it happened to be the one in front of the email terminals (the iMacs) - they would have wanted them shut down no matter what brand they were. They were covered to keep students from walking up and booting them up (which they would still occasionally do anyway.)

    Finally, Harvard left a number of Mac terminals open at the edges of the exhibit hall, in plain view. It was only the terminals that sat in the middle of the exhibits that were turned off and covered.

    This whole thing smacks of a bunch of whiny Ivy league kids with nothing better to do. Remember Intel spent a _bundle_ funding that conference and the majority of exhibitors and participants were from non-profit organizations. Give the company some credit when it deserves it.

    --
    +--------------------- You idiot! I told you we were facing the wrong way!
  15. Re:No free lunch by YASD · · Score: 5

    ...they had every right to ask for iMacs to be covered.

    Of course they did. They also had every right to ask the entire Harvard faculty to drop and give them twenty. Microsoft has every right to ask for our firstborn children in their next EULA. I have every right to ask you to kiss my bum.

    The point is, Harvard should not have knuckled under and handed Intel whatever they asked for on an iridium platter. I think we should expect a little more backbone from one of our most prestigious educational institutions. It's not Intel who deserves the most criticism here.

    (Come to think of it, whose fault is it really, that Microsoft gets away with those EULAs?)

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    You are in a twisty little maze of open source licenses, all different.