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Thinkpads For Penguin Lovers: Q3 2000
MikeFM writes: "It looks like IBM is set to release
Linux Thinkpads! This is great news to my ears. I am just holding out for a Transmeta powered Linux Thinkpad and then I can be happy. I do hope these Thinkpads are compatible with other versions of Linux though. I always use either Debian or Mandrake. Being that these would have limited use as a server I'd probably go w/ Mandrake." Question is, why so long? Thinkpads have been running Linux for a long time, after all.
Why bother with a thinkpad when Dell has a very nice 1400x1050 SXGA+ display available on their Inspiron 5000 (I have one - runs linux just fine and the display works great with the patches from http://intern.linpro.no/~janl/inspir on-5000.html)
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck load of tapes
http://www.goingware.com/laptop
Note that the machine came with Windows 98 installed and doesn't support NT; NT was the most difficult installation and still doesn't work very well.
On the other hand I've been testing the 2.4.0-test1-ac* kernels every few days and generally they work pretty well. The only serious problem I had was that my Adaptec 1480 SlimSCSI card didn't work; that wasn't a problem with the laptop itself but some problem in the Linux PCI drivers as well as a temporary bug in the SCSI driver. Recent 2.4.0 kernel patches work great and I can burn CD's off my laptop through SCSI.
If you're considering buying a laptop, I encourage you to read my page on my laptop, as I think the information I give could improve the wisdom of your choice.
Generally I've been happy with how it works, but I'm afraid I'm not so happy with the mechanical design of the thing; there's a ribbon cable in the DVD drive that gets tangled when I close it if it's been opened too far, and the most serious problem right now is that the power adapter doesn't always make good contact so the battery drains even when it's plugged in. Sometimes if I leave the house with Linux running it will power down while I'm away. Note that I've only had the unit for 7 months; if they could have the same electrical design but built for more rugged use I think I'd be happy.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
I suspect people don't complain more just because the look and feel of the machine is so nice. The keyboard and trackpoint mouse are fantastic, the screen is nice and crisp, and the assembly quality is best in the business.
There are tons of reasons to like the ThinkPad even though (as I said in another message) the X-Windows performance lags a bit.
D
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No coincidence.
#]mount pengiun
mount: Only root can mount pengiun.
#]root penguin
...
See ?
The only problem is, a 1 GHz Crusoe chip wouldn't perform as well as an equivalently clocked P!!! or Athlon. Of course, you're also not going to see 1 GHz P!!! or Athlon notebooks for a long time anyway, thanks to the huge power consumption issues, but I just wanted to remind of the "megahertz trap" too many people fall into, thinking that the clock speed of the processor has anything to do with its actual speed.
Most Slashdot readers know the difference between performance and clockspeed, but I think this will be an issue that'll be important when Transmeta-powered equipment hits the mainstream notebook/PDA/appliance market: Joe Sixpack and Joe Marketing will get their Crusoe-powered notebooks, and realize, "Hey, what gives, this 1 GHz Crusoe notebook isn't any better than my P!!! 600 notebook. I've been cheated!" I fear that the clockspeed/performance differential between Crusoe and x86 processors will become an albatross around Transmeta's neck, possibly damaging its reputation among non-geeks. After all, the non-Geek would read that it takes a 1 GHz Crusoe to be as powerful as a 600MHz P!!! or Athlon*, and deduce that somehow the Crusoe is inferior, not realizing the Crusoe's strong points and completely different architecture. I fear that magazines for the semi-computer-literate will fuel the fire, magazines like those in ZD's stable of consumer-targeted stuff. A similar thing dogged the K6-2, though the K6-2 certainly didn't have Crusoe's low power consumption or nifty new architecture; but, not being clock-for-clock as powerful as P!!! or even Celeron did hurt its image.
*: The comparison here is pulled out of my ass rather than from actual figures since I don't have the time to look them up/calculate a good comparison, but they shouldn't be too far off the mark.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
I don't think governmental action will be the answer to what ails the software industry. I think free software is.
--Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
I used to sell Thinkpads running Debian GNU/Linux under the Linux Laptops Ltd. brand.
JWZ is right: they are buggy as hell. IBM documents the bugs candidly as "Considerations" in their manual, so they happen in Windows too. Thus, the answer to JWZ's question is, "No, it will be just as buggy under Linux as under Windows."
Incidentally, the IBM laptop drives were the least reliable of any I handled. I never had a Toshiba or Hitachi drive fail, but lost two IBM drives during burn-in.
The BIOS access problem, though, has been mostly solved by Thomas Hood's "tpctl" program. IBM, uniquely, has provided a protected-mode interface to the BIOS so that you can reconfigure BIOS modes without shutting down Linux. Furthermore, IBM's PS2 program runs under DOS, so you still don't need Windows even for the things tpctl doesn't do.
I did get suspend/resume mostly working... on some models you have to unplug from the power main before popping out a network card. Also, you have to have all your programs close the sound devices first, or you won't get sound again until you cycle power. (Rebooting isn't enough!) Thus, the "esd" sound mixer daemon component of Enlightenment, or the equivalent in Gnome, messes up the hardware on suspend. It is useless to try to run APM event scripts: IBM's BIOS doesn't deliver the events, at least on the 600. (The 570 seemed to do better.)
I suspect the buggy BIOS is because they don't really have actual I/O devices; they are all simulated by the DSP gadget that also does the modem. The whole mess is probably so complicated they dare not touch it for fear of breaking something else too. At least, each model has a different set of bugs, and they never get fixed, year after year.
Why do people not complain more? Maybe because very few buy it with their own money, and maybe because most who have them are managers and don't really use them, or spent so much they feel they *must* have got their money's worth; or are embarrassed not to have done their homework. Your guess is as good as mine.
7IMHO, This is so fucking stupid!
Listen there is what 50+ differant winmodems on the market, everyone and there mother has a differant winmodem right? What does Lucent (IBM??) have to lose by releasing the source to this drvier?
Will other companies be able to copy there winmodem? If so, who really gives a crap, there is already 50+ modems, does lucent really care if there is 50+ modems and 3 clones of there modem? It is not like Lucent has a %100 domination of the market and the ONLY winmodem, they don't. What could they possiable lose by realeasing the source?
Second, if there winmodem was the only modem that was supported by linux, don't you think they would get a short temp sales in this niche market, before other manufactors released there source code?
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Hmmm... I have a compaq presario with the same symptom -- battery "charges" then goes dead in 10 seconds to 10 minutes. Think it might also be a dc/dc converter problem?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I wonder if IBM could release the source to OS/2 or if they have some legally binding agreement with Microsoft?
I would of really like to see IBM kick the crap out of Microsoft with OS/2, even though I never used the OS. Let me re-phase that, for entrainment purposes, I would like to see IBM kick the crap out of Microsoft with OS/2
If OS/2 was say GPL, Microsoft won't really have any direct enemey to attack...
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
If a driver works on one linux, it works on any linux. They all use the same kernel -- that's what makes it *linux* and not the Hurd or something.
Caldera 2.3 has two really nice installation features; one, it lets you play video games while it installs. Two, once it's done installing, you don't have to reboot; just pop out the CD and go install on the next machine. Whee! Kinda cool. Witness The Awesome Power of Chroot().
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I saw this, and it brought to mind just how far Linux has come. Think back a couple of years: two years ago, before Mozilla, before the "great database ports of '98", back when kernel 2.0 had been current for years, we were glad to see any mention of Linux, any hint of support. If IBM had so much as mentioned Linux on a web page, it would have rated a mention on Slashdot.
Anyone remember the "YALA" (Yet Another Linux Article) Stories? Back when any mention of Linux in a magazine other than Linux Journal warranted a Slashdot post?
Yet, today we complain when a major manufacturer is sluggish in pre-loading Linux. Not that we shouldn't complain, but I think it's an interesting contrast.
I look around, and I see a whole new band of Linux users. People who've never edited a Makefile -- who think that installing a program consists of "rpm -ivh" or, just maybe, "tar -xzvf" are becoming commonplace. Advanced users may know how to run "./configure; make; make install" -- but xmkmf (then editing the created makefile because xmkmf never worked right on any system I ever used) is a thing of the past. I don't resent these newcomers. In fact, I'm delighted to have them.
But it's definitely a totally different world from the Bad Old Days when I first ran Linux by booting from a floppy, then switching over to a root disk! (This was before lilo). No hard drives, no nothing. Anyone else remember SLS?
*sigh* I guess I'm getting old.
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-- Slashdot sucks.
I wonder if they'll be significantly cheaper than their propriety-software-running counterparts?
when the rain comes, they run and hide their heads. they might as well be dead.
IBM has been shipping ThinkPads with Linux for a couple of years now. A friend of mine at a former job was able to order, straight from IBM, a ThinkPad 600 (IIRC) with RedHat 5.2. They have been quietly shipping them this way if you requested it. Its good to see them being more open about it.
--Storm
But you had to buy windows with it and install linux yourself. :] but Seriously now the ibm thinkpad I series seems to be 100 percent linux compatible ive been running red hat 6.X on my 1400 since i got it 8 or so months ago.
It's most likely taken so long because official support costs money - you have to have a bunch of people able to deal with questions. Presumable IBM have only just reached the point where they feel the cost of offerring Linux as a supported OS is worth it.
I had been starting to evaluate laptops; I'm currently using an older Thinkpad. I was really hoping that I'd be able to get IBM to sell me a non-Windows laptop.
:)
Now, it looks like all I have to do is wait one to three months.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Too bad there won't be any machines like this based on Athlons anytime soon. AMD is having some serious problems with power consumption.
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Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Yes they've solved the winmodem problem.. in a really crappy way. From what I can tell, they paid(or got for free?) Lucent to write the driver. Now get this... it works with Redhat only. And it's binary only ahere the driver is basically locked down to a kernel version so you can't upgrade your kernel until they release a new driver. Furthermore, it is a buggy driver. If you try to use the serial port after using the WinModem driver, the computer freezes solid. No contact info on who wrote the driver yet. You can find info on Linux + i series Thinkpads here. This model uses the Lucent WinModem.
I have a Thinkpad 770ED, and man, it sucks.
It's been relegated to a sad life as a desktop machine, because any time I try to do anything even remotely laptop-like with it, such as:
I did get sound working eventually, but not well enough to run Quake. And I was never able to get VMware to talk to the serial port or network for some unknown reason.
So does the fact that IBM is going to ship Linux on these laptops mean they're going to actually make the features of these laptops work?
Another problem with Thinkpads is that their BIOS is secret and weird, and the only way to manipulate most of it is via a Windows configurator program: so you can't delete Windows; it is your BIOS. I guess they'll have to solve this by porting their configurator to Linux...
The damn thing also eats batteries: three times now it's gone from "100% charge" to "0% charge" overnight, while plugged in to wall current, and from that point on, the battery won't take a charge at all: it becomes a $300 paperweight. This isn't some battery-memory situation, it just dies all at once, not gradually.
(PS: after that glowing review, anyone want to buy my Stinkpad?)
I used to fix those things for a living. It sounds like you have a bad DC/DC card. If it's still on warranty, send it to your local thinkpad service center for repairs.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I think you're still haven't "lowered" yourself to the consumers level here. IMHO most members of the Sixpack family won't notice the difference between a Pentium at 600MHz and one at 1GHz. The vast majority will just go for the Gigahertz label at a good price, and then get a pleasant surprise from the extended battery life that Crusoe notebooks are likely to be sporting.
ZZ
And for those looking to install Linux on just about any laptop under the sun, the Linux on Laptops homepage is the place to look.
LL
"If you are falling, dive." -Joseph Campbell
The "problem" with the WinModem is best solved by not using the WinModem at all. It doesn't even work quite right under Windows, and I think it was altogether a bad idea.
If you get a modem PCMCIA card (maybe a combo with Ethernet), you end up with a nice, fast, reliable, standard modem that works from both Linux and Windows. If you need your PCMCIA slots for something else, could go with a USB or serial port modem.
Yes, yes I do remember OS/2. Ever try and get an IBM-brand laptop or desktop computer with OS/2 pre-installed? Lots of them, right? Plenty of choice?
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
that, will be the day we know linux has finally arrived.
We are now offering the same kind of operating system support for Linux as we do for AIX, OS/2, OS/390, OS/400 and NT.
Way to go IBM!
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Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Not too compelling when you can get approximately the same level of Linux Compatability from a Sony VAIO and it's a much nicer computer. The IBM Thinkpad was the best laptop out there and as usual IBM rested on their laurels and were passed by other faster, smarter companies. They should just give up at this point and completely leave the PC market, since they can't build a good quality part that won't cost thousands more than anything their competitors put out.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
umm... hello?
Been There, Done That.
It was called OS/2, perhaps you remember it?
Anyway, as others have pointed out, this isn't really news, we've been shipping preconfigured machines with Suse, Caldera, Turbo and Redhat for some time now... all you have to do is place your order by phone and ASK for it. (assuming it's supported hardware.) There's a guy down the hall at work that just got a 600E preloaded... personally I'll wait for the a20's price to come down... or for a cruesoe based system... 'cuz I'll bet that 700Mhz mobile PIII will heat up a bit on ac power on your lap, I've already burnt my leg with an old 770... and that was just a 266 Pentium!
If it works with Redhat only, then it sounds they'll have a bit of a problem using Caldera as their distro...
Seriously, I never saw any advantage to using Caldera. It doesn't really offer any special features that other distros don't have. They hype the Caldera Open Adminstration System, their configuration tool, but at least on 2.2 that program failed to do important things such as actually change configuration - most of the time it would just disappear without changing anything. They've got an X configuration tool that only works on installation and never works again - I was stuck in a painful, shimmering screen mode until I figured out how to change the Modeline. Their RPM system fails most of the time, unless you're using RPMs designed specifically for Caldera.
So I'd assume IBM's porting their winmodem driver to Caldera as well. That would just suck, because it means you can't switch to a decent distribution.
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No more e-mail address game - see my user info. Time for revenge.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
What'd be much more interesting would be if IBM ported its PM desktop to Gnome. Most of the underlying archetecture is already in Gnome, so it'd mostly involve porting the huge batch of desktop components they wrote.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Is it just me, or does it strike anybody else that there's something very, erm, down-right disturbing about the title of this article?
Stay up hacking each weekend. Sleep is for the week.
Somemore good news about the Microsoft break up.
Do you think that even Big IBM would have done something like this before Microsofts business practices came under carefull eye of the US Government? Nope, not at all. MS would called them up and said, "I think your OEM contract is going to increase ALOT unless you dump Linux".
Now with MS under control and getting punished for their past business practices we will now see more thing like this. More companies saying, "Hey! we can release products and hardware that dont support MS products only".
I dont know about you, but I think this is a good thing.
Linux O Muerte!